Warbler

TV’s Frink said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Full quote provided for context.

Caldwell’s approach to gender and sport has shifted over time. As she recently tweeted, “I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.”

So if she has a message to send, Caldwell says, it’s not just aimed at girls.

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

As I said there are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs.

A lot of that difference is made up.

Especially given the surgeries that are possible nowadays!

not really. Just take take a person that was born male surgically altered to be female and stand that person together with 10 women who were born women. I guarantee you I could pick out the one who was surgically altered to be female. She’s be one who is biggest and strongest.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

You’ve already said I’ve missed the point of what she said, why do you think reposting what she said would suddenly make me understand the point?

I don’t understand your point. She’s saying to go out and do your best and don’t worry about your gender. What’s wrong with that?

If that is what she meant, nothing is wrong with it.

I don’t see anywhere that she said “men and women are exactly the same.”

well perhaps I did misunderstand.

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Full quote provided for context.

Caldwell’s approach to gender and sport has shifted over time. As she recently tweeted, “I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.”

So if she has a message to send, Caldwell says, it’s not just aimed at girls.

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

As I said there are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs.

A lot of that difference is made up.

huh?

Gender roles and stereotypes are more societal constructs than biological truths.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_–_Women's_100_metres#Final

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_2016_Summer_Olympics_–_Women's_100_metres#Final

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Full quote provided for context.

Caldwell’s approach to gender and sport has shifted over time. As she recently tweeted, “I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.”

So if she has a message to send, Caldwell says, it’s not just aimed at girls.

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

As I said there are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs.

A lot of that difference is made up.

huh?

TV’s Frink said:

You can’t believe anything either of those people say.

Proof was irrelevant to my point.

Maybe you are right and I shouldn’t believe anything either says, but if they have proof that what they say it true, solid proof, what then?

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

How about no one until we have proof?

You’ve missed the point.

which is?

It’s like the two doors puzzle, where one door always tells the truth, and the other door always tells lies. Except both doors always tell lies.

if that were the case, I would just have to believe the opposite of what either tells me.

TV’s Frink said:

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

You’ve already said I’ve missed the point of what she said, why do you think reposting what she said would suddenly make me understand the point?

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

How about no one until we have proof?

You’ve missed the point.

which is?

You can’t believe anything either of them say. Proof is irrelevant.

How could proof be irrelevant?

Warbler said:

How about no one until we have proof?

let me rephrase this.

How about we neither believe either of them is telling the true until we have proof, and either of them is lying until we have proof?

dahmage said:

Warbler said:

How about no one until we have proof?

but then i wouldn’t have to believe them. or do we have to believe facts now for them to be true. /sarcasm

huh?

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

How about no one until we have proof?

You’ve missed the point.

which is?

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

what did you think about this part of the article though?

Caldwell’s teammate, Mac Bohonnon, says the scoring scale is one factor dissuading women from doing triples. At the elite level, men have to do triples to be competitive. But, Bohonnon says, triples aren’t scored with a high enough degree of difficulty to make them worth the risk for women.

“It’s a more dangerous jump, it’s a more challenging jump, it’s a scarier jump,” he says, “and I think there’s no reward for women doing triples. In my eyes, they’re almost punished. They’re getting beat by easy doubles.”

The logic goes, if you can reach the podium more securely with a less challenging jump, why not just stick to a double?

There is something to that, no? If you tell the female athletes to only attempt to achieve a certain level, but tell the male athletes to attempt to achieve a higher level, that plays a part in the eventual level they achieve.

I think the end goal should be that both genders are pushed just as far, and challenged to the ability of the person, not to their genders abilities.

Warbler said:

I agree maybe the points should be higher for triples (I say that without knowing anything about the point system).

I have no problem with the scoring being the same for males and females. I have no problem with pushing both males and females to be the best they can possibly be.

Then I’m not sure exactly what your problem is.

She talks about about gender equality in the one area where the genders are not equal. She says boys aren’t the standard, when the are. I know it is not pc, but it is the truth.

Again, you’ve missed her point.

and her point is?

dahmage said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

what did you think about this part of the article though?

Caldwell’s teammate, Mac Bohonnon, says the scoring scale is one factor dissuading women from doing triples. At the elite level, men have to do triples to be competitive. But, Bohonnon says, triples aren’t scored with a high enough degree of difficulty to make them worth the risk for women.

“It’s a more dangerous jump, it’s a more challenging jump, it’s a scarier jump,” he says, “and I think there’s no reward for women doing triples. In my eyes, they’re almost punished. They’re getting beat by easy doubles.”

The logic goes, if you can reach the podium more securely with a less challenging jump, why not just stick to a double?

There is something to that, no? If you tell the female athletes to only attempt to achieve a certain level, but tell the male athletes to attempt to achieve a higher level, that plays a part in the eventual level they achieve.

I think the end goal should be that both genders are pushed just as far, and challenged to the ability of the person, not to their genders abilities.

Warbler said:

I agree maybe the points should be higher for triples (I say that without knowing anything about the point system).

I have no problem with the scoring being the same for males and females. I have no problem with pushing both males and females to be the best they can possibly be.

Then I’m not sure exactly what your problem is.

She talks about about gender equality in the one area where the genders are not equal. She says boys aren’t the standard, when the are. I know it is not pc, but it is the truth.

from a certain point of view.

It is the truth, but it also isn’t.

Please elaborate.

I challenge you to consider why saying that boys are the standard is sexist.

I say males are the standard when it comes to sports. I see no reason to reconsider that unless people give me good reason to.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Full quote provided for context.

Caldwell’s approach to gender and sport has shifted over time. As she recently tweeted, “I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.”

So if she has a message to send, Caldwell says, it’s not just aimed at girls.

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

As I said there are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs.

Ok.

It is the truth.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

dahmage said:

what did you think about this part of the article though?

Caldwell’s teammate, Mac Bohonnon, says the scoring scale is one factor dissuading women from doing triples. At the elite level, men have to do triples to be competitive. But, Bohonnon says, triples aren’t scored with a high enough degree of difficulty to make them worth the risk for women.

“It’s a more dangerous jump, it’s a more challenging jump, it’s a scarier jump,” he says, “and I think there’s no reward for women doing triples. In my eyes, they’re almost punished. They’re getting beat by easy doubles.”

The logic goes, if you can reach the podium more securely with a less challenging jump, why not just stick to a double?

There is something to that, no? If you tell the female athletes to only attempt to achieve a certain level, but tell the male athletes to attempt to achieve a higher level, that plays a part in the eventual level they achieve.

I think the end goal should be that both genders are pushed just as far, and challenged to the ability of the person, not to their genders abilities.

Warbler said:

I agree maybe the points should be higher for triples (I say that without knowing anything about the point system).

I have no problem with the scoring being the same for males and females. I have no problem with pushing both males and females to be the best they can possibly be.

Then I’m not sure exactly what your problem is.

She talks about about gender equality in the one area where the genders are not equal. She says boys aren’t the standard, when the are. I know it is not pc, but it is the truth.

TV’s Frink said:

Full quote provided for context.

Caldwell’s approach to gender and sport has shifted over time. As she recently tweeted, “I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.”

So if she has a message to send, Caldwell says, it’s not just aimed at girls.

“I want it to be to boys and girls, men and women everywhere. Quit talking about gender. Be your best. It doesn’t matter what’s between your legs. Go out there and be your best,” she says. “I always wanted to be like the boys for a long time, and now I like it when my coaches treat me like me.”

As I said there are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs.

dahmage said:

what did you think about this part of the article though?

Caldwell’s teammate, Mac Bohonnon, says the scoring scale is one factor dissuading women from doing triples. At the elite level, men have to do triples to be competitive. But, Bohonnon says, triples aren’t scored with a high enough degree of difficulty to make them worth the risk for women.

“It’s a more dangerous jump, it’s a more challenging jump, it’s a scarier jump,” he says, “and I think there’s no reward for women doing triples. In my eyes, they’re almost punished. They’re getting beat by easy doubles.”

The logic goes, if you can reach the podium more securely with a less challenging jump, why not just stick to a double?

There is something to that, no? If you tell the female athletes to only attempt to achieve a certain level, but tell the male athletes to attempt to achieve a higher level, that plays a part in the eventual level they achieve.

I think the end goal should be that both genders are pushed just as far, and challenged to the ability of the person, not to their genders abilities.

Warbler said:

I agree maybe the points should be higher for triples (I say that without knowing anything about the point system).

I have no problem with the scoring being the same for males and females. I have no problem with pushing both males and females to be the best they can possibly be.

I would like to remind all in this thread about what this thread is for. Let it not turn into a political or religious debate. That can be done in other threads.

Suspiciouscoffee, just know that I am praying for you.

Collipso said:

I want to bitch about my English class and my teacher - I don’t hate the subject but she in 2 weeks made me hate it. I don’t mind doing homework nor do I think it’s a pain or anything negative, but I dislike her to the point where I refuse to do her homework. I’m the one being negatively impacted by not doing my homework but I refuse. I guess it’s the actual teenager in me. I’m glad that in less than 4 months it’ll all be over. God I hate her.

Why do you hate her? What has she done and/or not done?

How about no one until we have proof?

dahmage said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetorch/2018/02/13/582091144/aerials-skier-ashley-caldwells-bold-move-a-quadruple-twisting-triple-flip

I post here because it is Olympics, but it also has very interesting gender equality content. Quite worth reading.

I am glad she succeeded in doing her trick. I wish nothing but the best for her. I agree maybe the points should be higher for triples (I say that without knowing anything about the point system). But

I think every time I said that I wanted to ‘jump like the boys’ I was reaffirming that boys are the standard. I don’t think that helps gender equality.

I think this is wrong. Call me sexist all you want. But males on the average physically stronger and bigger than females. She said of her trick “Only two girls have ever done it, and I’m the only one who’s ever landed it, so it’s a bold move.” What she left out is how many males have done it and landed. I willing to bet a lot more. I’m sorry but boys are the standard when it comes to sports. There is a reason why they compete separately in the Olympics. If they competed against each other it would be extremely rare for a female to win gold in any sport. When a female figure skater lands a triple axel it is a big deal, it is just ordinary when a male figure skater does it. I remember looking at the times for the 100 yard dash in the Olympics a few years back. I compared the times for the female runners to the male runners. I remember that female Gold medalist wouldn’t have gotten near the podium if she ran that same time against the males. There are more differences between males and females than what is between their legs. Sorry, it not pc, but it is truth.

Oh if you want to talk about Gender equality, what about the males whom are just as good as the female Olympians but can’t get anywhere near the Olympics because they have to compete in the male category. I am willing to bet there are male athletes that have done the same trick Ashley Caldwell did but didn’t make the Olympics because they were males.

Suspiciouscoffee, you have a lot of value.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ioc-wants-american-goalies-remove-statue-liberty-masks-thats-just-sad-045416979.html

WTH?

What does the plus sign and the sideways 8 mean?

Collipso said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

My mother began pressing me to talk to her tonight. She seems to think I’m still depressed (I am, but I can’t let her know that I’m too bad). She tried to convince me to stay home at a local university this fall, but I don’t think I can make myself stay. Then again, if I leave, I don’t think I’ll survive. My gay ass deserves to rot. I don’t see what the point in living is, I’m never truly going to be happy, I’m never going to let myself for one reason or another.

Hey coffee. That must be one of the toughest situations… I don’t really know what to tell you. I am going to say that we’re all here for you, but that doesn’t really help.

Please don’t give life up, it’s the greatest gift one could receive (from god, if you believe in such things). From all that you’ve posted here in the forum that I’ve seen I can tell you’re one hell of a smart guy, and very kind too. You’re a nice person, a person that I’d love to know IRL and have a friendship with. And I only know the unhappy you, which really makes me wish I knew the happy you.

Some friends of mine also have trouble telling their parents the truth sometimes because their parents are incomprehensible to say the least. That was never the case with any of my gay friends, so to hear that incomprehensible religious parents have a gay depressed child in you makes me want to just hug you and tell you that everything is going to be all right.

And everything is going to be all right, coffee.

Please believe that.

About college, is it possible for you to go to a smaller school where you know a close friend of yours is going? Sorry if the suggestion is absolutely absurd - the college system in the US still confuses me a little bit. But maybe a smaller school could be nicer than a big one, less overwhelming, more personal classes, get to know people… And if the situation is so bad at home, try to leave, as hard as it may seem. Even if you don’t, I believe in you, and I believe that you can. Yes, you can. I believe that you can go out there and conquer the world instead of die trying.

Your gay ass doesn’t deserve to rot, quite the opposite. Like I said, you’re a wonderful person from what I’ve seen so far and I honestly think it’s safe to say that I’ve seen enough to be sure that I am right. Don’t say things like that, it’s almost as if you’re either convinced of it or is trying to convince yourself of it. Please don’t. You’re more than that and I wouldn’t want you to think otherwise.

I can’t ask you much, but I will ask you to believe that things will get better and that you’re a very nice guy that doesn’t deserve to rot.

Finally, I wanted to say how sorry I am for basically talking and talking and not saying anything really impactful… but know that I’m sending you much love. For real. I hope you eventually see a purpose in life coffee, even if not because you, but because you’ll be making other people really happy, which doesn’t seem to hard given how likeable you are.

Hoping for the best. Hang in there, bud. 😉

well said, Collipso.