This user has been banned.
Just wanted to wish the forum off topic section a happy 15th Anniversary. Leave your thoughts about the 15th Anniversary of the off topic section here.
ok. I am back.
I’m leaving the public areas of the forum for a while.
Warb, i think you just got worked up from the school shooting discussion in the politics thread, because an outburst like that just makes you look like a doodad 2.
JEDIT: just saw oojason’s comment.
No, I am worked up because of what happened with Darth Ender.
whatever.
I am disappointed in many of you, especially Frink.
How will I ever go on?
go fuck yourself.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.
Oh brother. You’re so prejudice against the cops, there is no point talking to you about this.
Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others
Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.
Well if someone tries to kill a student or teacher or someone else, don’t you think the cop should stop that? Or should the cop just stand there and let them kill the student or teacher or someone else.
Of course I don’t think that.
Don’t carry deadly weapons
Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule,
no kidding. But but someone carries a deadly weapon into school, don’t you want to cops to intervene?
Yes. I don’t want them standing by every second of every day waiting for it.
but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons.
well they could be. Small guns are easy to conceal. I once saw video where that looked normal, started pulling out guns that he had concealed. Turns out he had like 6 of them or so.
Most aren’t carrying concealed weapons.
That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”
and of of course it has nothing to do with ignoring repeated orders and warning from cops, right?
I didn’t know that was a capital offense these days.
It has nothing to do with people acting stupidly in an encounter and making a sudden motion like they are pulling a weapon right?
You’re right, better shoot him twenty-five times.
Yeah, you’ll say they should wait and make sure it is a gun. Trouble is they do that, and if it is a gun, they can’t stop it in time and you get a dead cop.
Here’s the thing: they signed up for this job, we didn’t. I know that sounds heartless, but I thought cops were signing up for a dangerous job in order to potentially sacrifice themselves in order to protect the innocent. The best cops have that mindset. But when you have cops with guns in your face screaming at you at the top of their lungs (ironically sounding much more like a deranged criminal than most deranged criminals do) it’s hard to know exactly how to move and what to do. I don’t like that I have to be treated like an armed and dangerous person just because someone else might be armed and dangerous, and if I get shot to death because I moved wrong, it’s my fault for provoking the cop. When a cop shoots a surrendering, unarmed person, that cop should be tried for manslaughter at least. If I pull a gun and shoot someone to death because I think they’re armed even though they aren’t, I would not get the special treatment that cops get. My poor judgement would’ve killed the unarmed person, so I should be held responsible. I don’t understand why people don’t feel the same way about cops, but since they aren’t held to the same standard I don’t want to stationed around each and every school.
Obey direct orders from cops
Why?
Because they cops giving lawful orders? Because sometimes they are giving orders in order to protect you and others? Because sometimes they know what they are doing in a dire situation where you the untrained civilian does not?
I have little faith in the training of cops. “Sometimes they know what they are doing” isn’t enough for me to just assume that they’re right no matter what.
So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell.
What about emergency situation like an active shooter?
That’s a special circumstance that doesn’t happen often enough to justify putting an armed police officer in every school.
Sometime in such situations a cop doesn’t have time to explain why he wants you do something.
In extremely intense situations, yes. In every other situation, they do. Cops are often very intimidating, so it’s too scary to ask them for explanations.
I’m a law-abiding taxpayer.
that doesn’t exempt you from having to obey lawfully given orders.
Not all orders are lawful and not all lawfully given orders are reasonable.
The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me.
How will they serve you best? by people refusing to do what they are told in an emergency? or doing what the cops tell them and thus help the cops keep everyone safe.
Who said anything about an emergency? I understand that emergencies are different, but since most schools go through entire academic years without any emergencies, I’m assuming that most interactions with the cops won’t be during emergencies.
A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights.
In your opinion. btw, such can be sorted out in a court of law.
Yep, and I’d have to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt to fight them in that court of law. And the court would most likely side with the cops anyway.
You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant),
actually sometimes you do. like if they hear someone screaming for help from the trunk of your car. Or if they hear shooting and then realize you smell of gun power.
That’s probable cause. They don’t usually have that.
you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them.
oh ffs.
I’m right.
I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen.
No, what can’t allowed to happen is more shooting like the one in Florida. But please continue to let your prejudice of cops get in the way of saving kids lives.
I desperately want to save kids’ lives. I just can tell that this is horrible idea that won’t work. Schools are huge. The shooter could just go to the part of the school where the cop isn’t stationed and do plenty of damage before the cop got there.
We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns.
If the right way is to ban guns, its not going to happen. Too much opposition from the right.
Then the right is the problem. They must be defeated.
Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.
having cops in our schools does not equal a police state.
Having them stationed throughout all of our daily life locations is, and your mindset that their use of deadly force is justified even if the suspect is unarmed is dangerously close.
It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.
Lol when I say the exact same thing you get all pissy about it.
Well too fucking bad for you.
Having police officers in schools not only doesn’t work. It’s a negative to students, especially minority ones.
https://scholarlycommons.law.northwestern.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1109&context=njlsp
The fate of school discipline and security in America is at a crucial turning point. While the “school-to-prison pipeline” has recently received an increased amount of attention from policy makers interested in improving public education, the recent shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Connecticut led to renewed calls for the heightened security measures that helped give rise to the pipeline. This article provides clear evidence that heightened disciplinary and security measures in schools are faulty policy responses, as they have adverse impacts on the students they intend to protect and siphon resources away from policies that more effectively ensure student safety and success.
A relatively small number of the students arrested in Delaware were charged with felony offenses (approximately 9%), while the overwhelming majority of students were charged with misdemeanors and violations (approximately 91%). Moreover, students rarely faced high-level felony charges.
Although the Delaware student population is evenly split between genders, 65% of the arrested students were male, and 35% were female. Black students comprised 67% of the arrested students while only accounting for 32% of the student body. Meanwhile, white students accounted for 31% of those arrested in school, but half of the student body. Black students, therefore, were approximately three-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested than white students.
Yeah, I know, all cops are bigoted gun crazy a-holes who will shoot black kids because they hate them and shoot others for talking back. What horrible monsters cops are. I know.
It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.
So we can protect our kids, we can’t get the guns off the streets and nothing will get done. See you at the next school shooting. Have a nice day.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.
Oh brother. You’re so prejudice against the cops, there is no point talking to you about this.
Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others
Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.
Well if someone tries to kill a student or teacher or someone else, don’t you think the cop should stop that? Or should the cop just stand there and let them kill the student or teacher or someone else.
Of course I don’t think that.
Don’t carry deadly weapons
Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule,
no kidding. But but someone carries a deadly weapon into school, don’t you want to cops to intervene?
Yes. I don’t want them standing by every second of every day waiting for it.
but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons.
well they could be. Small guns are easy to conceal. I once saw video where that looked normal, started pulling out guns that he had concealed. Turns out he had like 6 of them or so.
Most aren’t carrying concealed weapons.
That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”
and of of course it has nothing to do with ignoring repeated orders and warning from cops, right?
I didn’t know that was a capital offense these days.
It has nothing to do with people acting stupidly in an encounter and making a sudden motion like they are pulling a weapon right?
You’re right, better shoot him twenty-five times.
Yeah, you’ll say they should wait and make sure it is a gun. Trouble is they do that, and if it is a gun, they can’t stop it in time and you get a dead cop.
Here’s the thing: they signed up for this job, we didn’t. I know that sounds heartless, but I thought cops were signing up for a dangerous job in order to potentially sacrifice themselves in order to protect the innocent. The best cops have that mindset. But when you have cops with guns in your face screaming at you at the top of their lungs (ironically sounding much more like a deranged criminal than most deranged criminals do) it’s hard to know exactly how to move and what to do. I don’t like that I have to be treated like an armed and dangerous person just because someone else might be armed and dangerous, and if I get shot to death because I moved wrong, it’s my fault for provoking the cop. When a cop shoots a surrendering, unarmed person, that cop should be tried for manslaughter at least. If I pull a gun and shoot someone to death because I think they’re armed even though they aren’t, I would not get the special treatment that cops get. My poor judgement would’ve killed the unarmed person, so I should be held responsible. I don’t understand why people don’t feel the same way about cops, but since they aren’t held to the same standard I don’t want to stationed around each and every school.
Obey direct orders from cops
Why?
Because they cops giving lawful orders? Because sometimes they are giving orders in order to protect you and others? Because sometimes they know what they are doing in a dire situation where you the untrained civilian does not?
I have little faith in the training of cops. “Sometimes they know what they are doing” isn’t enough for me to just assume that they’re right no matter what.
So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell.
What about emergency situation like an active shooter?
That’s a special circumstance that doesn’t happen often enough to justify putting an armed police officer in every school.
Sometime in such situations a cop doesn’t have time to explain why he wants you do something.
In extremely intense situations, yes. In every other situation, they do. Cops are often very intimidating, so it’s too scary to ask them for explanations.
I’m a law-abiding taxpayer.
that doesn’t exempt you from having to obey lawfully given orders.
Not all orders are lawful and not all lawfully given orders are reasonable.
The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me.
How will they serve you best? by people refusing to do what they are told in an emergency? or doing what the cops tell them and thus help the cops keep everyone safe.
Who said anything about an emergency? I understand that emergencies are different, but since most schools go through entire academic years without any emergencies, I’m assuming that most interactions with the cops won’t be during emergencies.
A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights.
In your opinion. btw, such can be sorted out in a court of law.
Yep, and I’d have to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt to fight them in that court of law. And the court would most likely side with the cops anyway.
You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant),
actually sometimes you do. like if they hear someone screaming for help from the trunk of your car. Or if they hear shooting and then realize you smell of gun power.
That’s probable cause. They don’t usually have that.
you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them.
oh ffs.
I’m right.
I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen.
No, what can’t allowed to happen is more shooting like the one in Florida. But please continue to let your prejudice of cops get in the way of saving kids lives.
I desperately want to save kids’ lives. I just can tell that this is horrible idea that won’t work. Schools are huge. The shooter could just go to the part of the school where the cop isn’t stationed and do plenty of damage before the cop got there.
We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns.
If the right way is to ban guns, its not going to happen. Too much opposition from the right.
Then the right is the problem. They must be defeated.
Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.
having cops in our schools does not equal a police state.
Having them stationed throughout all of our daily life locations is, and your mindset that their use of deadly force is justified even if the suspect is unarmed is dangerously close.
It is pointless to continue with this. No one will listen.
WIR?
Yes, very sad if he doesn’t return. It will mean I have lost a good friend.
Apparently Frink is the only one he cares much about. 😕
Hahahahaha.
Point is valid though. Quiting the forum because one person here won’t be the person you want them to be is really childish.
It’s really strange to me.
"I don’t like one kid on the playground, so I refuse to even go outside during recess."
C’mon ender. Don’t do that.
Sometimes you stay inside to avoid bullies and those that annoy you.
I am disappointed in many of you, especially Frink. We’ve lost good member, and I don’t think he is coming back publicly.
I will have more to say on this when I calm down.
time will tell.
Regulation. Name any regulation, and that’s another option beyond just banning guns or having armed guards.
What regulation? like I said, banning guns isn’t going to happen. So what regulation would you suggest?
I’m not an expert on the issue, but some things that sound good to me on a surface level are; raising the minimum age to 21,
probably not going to happen, too much opposition. Also kids could still get them from their parents. I think that is what happened with Columbine.
a ban on high-capacity magazines, more extensive background checks on a national level,
not going to happen, too much opposition.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/966662241977360384
I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!
I’ll believe it when I see it. You’ll forgive me if don’t take Trump at his word.
These things will help, but I don’t think them alone will be enough.
And, to add onto that, should the police be arresting kids?
It depends if they committed an offense the merits arrest. I would hope you agree that if kid enters school with a gun with the intent to shoot other kids that it merits arrest.
Of course, I’m more worried about minor infractions. Here’s a relevant excerpt from the aforementioned article.
Putting more people with guns in schools is not the answer. By increasing police presence in school, we are guaranteeing that more students will be arrested – perhaps unnecessarily. Increasing police in schools will contribute to the school-to-prison pipeline. According to the ACLU(pdf):
“In practice, most school police spend a significant portion of their time responding to minor, nonviolent infractions – children who have drawn on desks or talked back to teachers, for example – rather than behaviors that seriously threaten school safety.”
Minor issues such as these that used to be dealt with by school officials are now being dealt with by police officers who will arrest students for such minor misbehavior. Students who bring weapons to school or who commit violent crimes on school grounds should be arrested, of course, but not those who write on desks or talk back to teachers. One arrest dramatically decreases the likelihood that a student will graduate from high school, and can create a host of other issues down the line.
I agree those that write on desks and talk back to teachers should be handled the normal way, not by cops.
Regulation. Name any regulation, and that’s another option beyond just banning guns or having armed guards.
What regulation? like I said, banning guns isn’t going to happen. So what regulation would you suggest?
I’m not an expert on the issue, but some things that sound good to me on a surface level are; raising the minimum age to 21,
probably not going to happen, too much opposition. Also kids could still get them from their parents. I think that is what happened with Columbine.
a ban on high-capacity magazines, more extensive background checks on a national level,
not going to happen, too much opposition.
and maybe a mental health examination but it may have the potential to be problematic.
you mean for buying a gun? would be could good idea, but I doubt the NRA would allow it.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
Depends on the situation. What I talking about was obeying direct orders in an emergency situation, like an active shooter.
When not in an active shooter situation, what would you have the guard doing?
Just be on normal guard duty, ready in case an active shoot situation occurred.
I don’t know if you read the article I posted, but it said that often, teachers would pawn off that responsibility of dealing with rowdy students over to the police.
I don’t think that is what should be done. The cops are there as a last resort in a dire situation.
The teachers don’t want to deal with the rowdy kids, but that absolutely shouldn’t be the job of an armed guard; what’s the solution?
teachers should be told to deal with normal kind of rowdy. When it is not not normal is when the cops should intervene.
What is “not normal?”
Not exactly sure, but basically when violence goes beyond the normal kind of violence that kids do in schools. Certainly if kids start fighting with deadly weapons like knives or guns, it is time for the cop to intervene.
What about a fistfight?
depends on how bad the fistfight get. I don’t think cops should let some big senior beat a small freshman to death.
And, to add onto that, should the police be arresting kids?
It depends if they committed an offense the merits arrest. I would hope you agree that if kid enters school with a gun with the intent to shoot other kids that it merits arrest.
Will they be shot? What if the guard feels threatened by a student?
unlikely.
It’s still something that should be addressed.
So should a nut trying to come in and murder doubt digit numbers of kids. But instead, the right blocks banning of guns, and it seems the left is unwilling to allow armed guards. So nothing will happen and more kids will die.
Those aren’t the only two options.
I’d like to know a third.
Regulation. Name any regulation, and that’s another option beyond just banning guns or having armed guards.
What regulation? like I said, banning guns isn’t going to happen. So what regulation would you suggest?
Best case scenario, I think, if guards were absolutely necessary and there was no way they weren’t gonna happen; would be that they never interact with the students. Lock them in a room or something, have them watch the security cameras. They’d be solely reserved for dealing with an active threat. Even then, it would still be colossally expensive, and for what? How many of these guards will actually get the chance to do their job? How many will be successful at their job?
The knowledge that they are there itself might prevent a shooting. You don’t see these nuts trying their rampages at a police station do you? Ever wonder why?
Because their trauma is school-related? They weren’t forced to go to a police station nearly every day for 13 years. They weren’t (presumably) bullied at a police station.
or maybe they known they wouldn’t be able to murder people in the double digits there before being stopped, isn’t that a possibility?
Sure, that’s probably part of the reason; but on the other hand, I don’t think these shooters are very familiar with rational thought or survival instinct.
all I know is that they don’t seem to attack places where armed people known to congregate.
I don’t know why you don’t. If shooting happening at a school you’d want the cops there asap. Why? to stop the bad guy. The faster they get there, the faster the badguy can be taking out. But fastest way is if they were there already.
What kind of weaponry would the guard have?
Not sure, Handgun, tazer, pepper spray, the normal sort of cop stuff. I don’t think they would need AR-15s if that is what you mean.
I disagree, I think they would need AR-15s, but I also don’t think they should have them. These shooters come armed to the teeth; shotguns, pistols, rifles, everything.
Even so, handguns would be better than nothing. I think guards with AR-15s in the schools daily would be a bit much. I think handguns in the hands of multiple well trained cops should be enough to take out a lone nut even if he is armed to the teeth.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
Depends on the situation. What I talking about was obeying direct orders in an emergency situation, like an active shooter.
When not in an active shooter situation, what would you have the guard doing?
Just be on normal guard duty, ready in case an active shoot situation occurred.
I don’t know if you read the article I posted, but it said that often, teachers would pawn off that responsibility of dealing with rowdy students over to the police.
I don’t think that is what should be done. The cops are there as a last resort in a dire situation.
The teachers don’t want to deal with the rowdy kids, but that absolutely shouldn’t be the job of an armed guard; what’s the solution?
teachers should be told to deal with normal kind of rowdy. When it is not not normal is when the cops should intervene.
What is “not normal?”
Not exactly sure, but basically when violence goes beyond the normal kind of violence that kids do in schools. Certainly if kids start fighting with deadly weapons like knives or guns, it is time for the cop to intervene.
Will they be shot? What if the guard feels threatened by a student?
unlikely.
It’s still something that should be addressed.
So should a nut trying to come in and murder doubt digit numbers of kids. But instead, the right blocks banning of guns, and it seems the left is unwilling to allow armed guards. So nothing will happen and more kids will die.
Those aren’t the only two options.
I’d like to know a third.
Best case scenario, I think, if guards were absolutely necessary and there was no way they weren’t gonna happen; would be that they never interact with the students. Lock them in a room or something, have them watch the security cameras. They’d be solely reserved for dealing with an active threat. Even then, it would still be colossally expensive, and for what? How many of these guards will actually get the chance to do their job? How many will be successful at their job?
The knowledge that they are there itself might prevent a shooting. You don’t see these nuts trying their rampages at a police station do you? Ever wonder why?
Because their trauma is school-related? They weren’t forced to go to a police station nearly every day for 13 years. They weren’t (presumably) bullied at a police station.
or maybe they known they wouldn’t be able to murder people in the double digits there before being stopped, isn’t that a possibility?
I don’t know why you don’t. If shooting happening at a school you’d want the cops there asap. Why? to stop the bad guy. The faster they get there, the faster the badguy can be taking out. But fastest way is if they were there already.
What kind of weaponry would the guard have?
Not sure, Handgun, tazer, pepper spray, the normal sort of cop stuff. I don’t think they would need AR-15s if that is what you mean.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
I’ll tell you what happens. They get detained, pepper-sprayed, arrested, or have the shit beat out of them. At worst they may get shot to death. Every year there is a far too high number of school-aged kids that get shot to death by police.
Oh brother. You’re so prejudice against the cops, there is no point talking to you about this.
Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others
Obviously the dangerous people aren’t going to follow this rule.
Well if someone tries to kill a student or teacher or someone else, don’t you think the cop should stop that? Or should the cop just stand there and let them kill the student or teacher or someone else.
Don’t carry deadly weapons
Again, the dangerous people won’t follow this rule,
no kidding. But but someone carries a deadly weapon into school, don’t you want to cops to intervene?
but that doesn’t even matter since cops treat everybody as though they’re potentially carrying dangerous weapons.
well they could be. Small guns are easy to conceal. I once saw video where that looked normal, started pulling out guns that he had concealed. Turns out he had like 6 of them or so.
That’s why so many unarmed people get shot to death by police. The excuse is always, “He could’ve been armed.”
and of of course it has nothing to do with ignoring repeated orders and warning from cops, right? It has nothing to do with people acting stupidly in an encounter and making a sudden motion like they are pulling a weapon right? Yeah, you’ll say they should wait and make sure it is a gun. Trouble is they do that, and if it is a gun, they can’t stop it in time and you get a dead cop.
Obey direct orders from cops
Why?
Because they cops giving lawful orders? Because sometimes they are giving orders in order to protect you and others? Because sometimes they know what they are doing in a dire situation where you the untrained civilian does not?
So they don’t shoot me to death? If I’m obeying the law then their direct orders can go to hell.
What about emergency situation like an active shooter?
Sometime in such situations a cop doesn’t have time to explain why he wants you do something.
I’m a law-abiding taxpayer.
that doesn’t exempt you from having to obey lawfully given orders.
The cops theoretically are here to serve people like me.
How will they serve you best? by people refusing to do what they are told in an emergency? or doing what the cops tell them and thus help the cops keep everyone safe.
A lot of direct orders from cops are violations of your rights.
In your opinion. btw, such can be sorted out in a court of law.
You don’t have to let them search you or your car or your property (assuming they don’t have a warrant),
actually sometimes you do. like if they hear someone screaming for help from the trunk of your car. Or if they hear shooting and then realize you smell of gun power.
you don’t have to answer their questions if you don’t want to, etc. etc. I don’t like this idea that the cops are our overlords that we just need to obey if we don’t want to be harmed by them.
oh ffs.
I don’t want cops in schools. If I had kids then I would not send them to a school that was under this police-state form of martial law, even if that meant I had to home-school them. This nonsense cannot be allowed to happen.
No, what can’t allowed to happen is more shooting like the one in Florida. But please continue to let your prejudice of cops get in the way of saving kids lives.
We need to solve this country’s gun problem the right way rather than fight it with more guns.
If the right way is to ban guns, its not going to happen. Too much opposition from the right.
Don’t let anyone use these tragedies to turn the US into a police state.
having cops in our schools does not equal a police state.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids? Obeying direct orders? Doesn’t compute. And again, what happens if they don’t?
Depends on the situation. What I talking about was obeying direct orders in an emergency situation, like an active shooter.
Kids and teenagers are rowdy. What happens if they don’t behave themselves?
I want the cops to be trained well enough to be able to deal with them reasonably. For most part, it should be left up the regular school staff to deal with rowdy kids.
What is a “reasonable response?”
depends upon situation.
I don’t know if you read the article I posted, but it said that often, teachers would pawn off that responsibility of dealing with rowdy students over to the police.
I don’t think that is what should be done. The cops are there as a last resort in a dire situation.
The teachers don’t want to deal with the rowdy kids, but that absolutely shouldn’t be the job of an armed guard; what’s the solution?
teachers should be told to deal with normal kind of rowdy. When it is not not normal is when the cops should intervene.
Will they be shot? What if the guard feels threatened by a student?
unlikely.
It’s still something that should be addressed.
So should a nut trying to come in and murder doubt digit numbers of kids. But instead, the right blocks banning of guns, and it seems the left is unwilling to allow armed guards. So nothing will happen and more kids will die.
I feel like by putting armed guards in school, they would be bringing with them all the problems of a real police force; racial profiling, overuse of force, the whole nine yards.
I agree these are problems. But we have problems right now. Kids are being murdered in our schools.
And since I don’t think guards would solve that problem, I view this only as creating more unnecessary ones.
I don’t know why you don’t. If shooting happening at a school you’d want the cops there asap. Why? to stop the bad guy. The faster they get there, the faster the badguy can be taking out. But fastest way is if they were there already.
Best case scenario, I think, if guards were absolutely necessary and there was no way they weren’t gonna happen; would be that they never interact with the students. Lock them in a room or something, have them watch the security cameras. They’d be solely reserved for dealing with an active threat. Even then, it would still be colossally expensive, and for what? How many of these guards will actually get the chance to do their job? How many will be successful at their job?
The knowledge that they are there itself might prevent a shooting. You don’t see these nuts trying their rampages at a police station do you? Ever wonder why?
- What if the bad guy is surrounded by hostages? Are they expected to engage anyway?
obviously, this where quality training would help. Cops need to be trained to know when to shoot and when not to.
Might want to talk to black folks to see how that’s going.
I am open to improving the training we currently give cops.
- If Chris Kyle, a highly trained marksman, and good guy with a gun, was gunned down in a shooting range, surrounded by other good guys with guns… what makes you think an (at best) amateur marksman will fare better?
He will certainly fair better than someone who is not armed!
Well he didn’t fair so well.
He’s dead.
and if he didn’t have a gun and the nut was only one armed, he’d still be dead. If you are unarmed and someone is trying to shoot you and escape is impossible, you have no chance. Same situation and armed, you have a chance.
- What if having hundreds of guns in a single building is… bear with me now… not a great fucking idea? What if that building was filled with our children? Doesn’t that make it… an even worse fucking idea?
If the choice is having armed cops to defend our kids vs. leaving our kids unprotected, I’ll choose armed cops. Also these “hundreds of guns” if that is how many there’d be, would have to be strictly regulated. I think any guns coming into to school would have to be on the cops’ person 100% of the time. No leaving them in bathrooms, no locked closet with guns . . . ect.
But it’s extremely hard to get people to follow these protocols.
It is called training. It is called background checks, it is called being extremely careful in who you hire for this.
And if you get more people, it’s going to be harder to harangue all of them in to following those protocols.
If they don’t follow the protocols, they will be fired or worse.
If there’s more guns, there’s more opportunity for mistake. If you stand in the middle of a road for ten seconds, you’re much more likely to get hurt by a car in a car accident than if you did the same for one second. Your exposure to the possibility of a bad outcome is greatly reduced. And that’s why we need less exposure to guns.
mistakes can be minimized. I think it is preferable to leaving our kids unprotected.
Protect your kids by taking guns out of the hands of the fuckers that are murdering them, not forcing the kids to go to school under the thumb of a bunch of armed people.
As I have repeated said, banning guns won’t happen. Too much opposition, but we can still protect our children.
still waiting.
Also, I don’t think I’d feel very safe around an armed guard, I’d probably feel less safe then I would without a guard. People with guns make me nervous, not because I’m afraid of guns, but because I can never know if they’re going to use them or what they’re going to use them for.
Ok, I will give this a real response.
Thank you, I appreciate it.
I don’t know why an armed cop would make you nervous. He/she has the gun in case the worst happened. As long as you behave yourself, you don’t need to worry.
I don’t trust that all cops will be totally sane/rational. If the guards were “extremely well trained and extensively background checked,” as you said, I think I’d be less averse to the idea. That said, I think “trained and background checked” is too vague to really have a discussion about, and it seems to me that it’s rooted in a ‘perfect world’ ideal without really considering how it would be done and how feasible it is.
obviously, a lot more details would need to be ironed out before going ahead with this.
I’m not saying that a cop is going to shoot a student (though I don’t doubt that it would happen), just that people with guns put me on edge.
And when you say “behave yourself,” what does that mean?
Don’t try to kill any students, teachers or others
Don’t carry deadly weapons
Obey direct orders from cops
Kids and teenagers are rowdy. What happens if they don’t behave themselves?
I want the cops to be trained well enough to be able to deal with them reasonably. For most part, it should be left up the regular school staff to deal with rowdy kids.
Will they be shot? What if the guard feels threatened by a student?
unlikely.
I feel like by putting armed guards in school, they would be bringing with them all the problems of a real police force; racial profiling, overuse of force, the whole nine yards.
I agree these are problems. But we have problems right now. Kids are being murdered in our schools.
Yes, very sad if he doesn’t return. It will mean I have lost a good friend.