Warbler

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Ah, so the abused should ask himself or herself, why he or she deserves to be abused, rather than expect respectful discourse?

Lucas is not a battered wife.

Some people simply deserve fan toxicity for not agreeing with said fans’ points of view.

When you don’t want to give the oot the release it deserves, don’t be surprised if toxicity occurs.

Sorry Kelly-Mary Tran, you shouldn’t have accepted a role in that travesty!

I never said that she deserved what happened to her. I agree that went way too far.

In my view fan toxicity is not solved by pointing the finger at others, but by looking in the mirror.

So why shouldn’t Lucas be looking in the mirror?

DrDre said:

Warbler said:

Sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that the fans are to blame. Lucas made bad changes when he did the SE. Lucas made bad movies when he made the PT. These things are Lucas’ fault, not the fans. But worst of all was his stubborn arrogant ego driven decision to refuse to treat the oot properly and give it the release it deserves.

Passing blame, a good basis for any relationship. As allways things are a little more complicated in reality. For one a lot of fans like, if not love the SE and the PT. It’s not Lucas’ fault you are not in their camp,

He made the movies, sure seems like he has something to do with it.

The SE has now been available in a modern format longer than the OOT, which is slowly becoming a distant memory sadly.

Why do you think that is, hmmm?

There’s no objective truth in this situation, only opinions and factors that can be weighed differently depending on each individual, which include film history and preservation, but also Lucas’ rights as the creator of his works, and a whole bunch of other stuff including Lucas’ relationship with the fans. You weigh them one way, Lucas weighs them another way. Lucas has openly stated: “Why would I make any more [Star Wars movies], when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?” In other words Lucas didn’t want to make new Star Wars movies at the time, because of fan toxicity.

The fan toxicity existed due to the bad decisions Lucas made, that isn’t too far fetched either.

to infer that the same fan toxicity may have been a factor (along with a number of other factors) in his refusal to release the OOT.

His refusal to release the oot came long before things got all that toxic.

You do realize how this forum came to be, right? This forum didn’t start in 2006 or 2012, it started in 2003. That should you something about when his refusal to release the oot started.

screams in the void said:

George was quoted as saying in 2012 , " Why should I make more when everyone yells at you and says what a terrible person you are ?"…granted , he came back after the Disney merger ,had a meltdown , then came to acceptance and then came back to support all the subsequent productions .I watched Mark Hamill’s ceremony for his star on the walk of fame earlier this year and George Lucas and Harrison Ford attended , an interviewer asked Lucas about Star Wars and he said he had nothing to say . I think he is still going through the stages of grief. He did say it was like a divorce after all . Also . on the subject of Jar Jar , Ahmed best has started doing some field notes on the backlash of his character , seems he feels George could have stuck up for him a bit more …https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoRD_SfIbwE

Maybe Lucas should have taken a deeper look at why the fans were yelling at him and saying what a terrible person he was? Maybe he should have more open to the idea that (gasp!) he could have made mistakes that led to the fan hate. The thing is, he could made a lot of the fan hate go away by doing one simple thing: give the oot the release it deserves.

Sorry, but I don’t buy the idea that the fans are to blame. Lucas made bad changes when he did the SE. Lucas made bad movies when he made the PT. These things are Lucas’ fault, not the fans. But worst of all was his stubborn arrogant ego driven decision to refuse to treat the oot properly and give it the release it deserves.

SilverWook said:
Do the Klingons and the Ferengi follow such a directive? I doubt it.

True, but don’t see what that has to do with anything. I’d be willing to bet that America has rules that Russia and China don’t have.

DuracellEnergizer said:

TNG’s interpretation of the prime directive sucks.

I was never too crazy about it either. I preferred Kirk’s way of handling the Prime Directive. He just found ways to bend the prime directive so he could do what he wanted and still argue that he wasn’t violating it.

NeverarGreat said:

Warbler said:

NeverarGreat said:

pittrek said:

Warbler said:

pittrek said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I liked Insurrection…

Me too. It feels like a long TNG episode, which for many people is a problem, and it contradicts an episode of TNG, but compared to Nemesis it’s a masterpiece.

Which episode did Insurrection contradict?

I don’t remember the English titles of the episodes, but there was the last episode with Wesley, I think season 7 - the situation was similar - the Federation has decided to forcefully remove a colony of American Indians because somebody else wanted it. Picard’s attitude was “I don’t like it, but it’s an order”. In Insurrection the situation is very similar, but now for some reason Picard decides to do a small insurrection to defend them.

Although the situation is similar in these respects, there is one major difference - in Journey’s End the colony has been recently reclassified as being in Cardassian space and may be wiped out if not relocated, whereas the colony in Insurrection is still in Federation space and under no existential threat.

It can also be argued that the situation Journey’s End did not constitute a violation of the prime directive where as the situation in Insurrection did.

But since it’s later established that the colony in Insurrection has advanced knowledge of warp drive, the Prime Directive doesn’t apply in this case.

In the movie, they sure talk like it does apply.

pittrek said:

Warbler said:

pittrek said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

They can safely ignore Voyager. And Q flat out told Picard in the finale that the trial never ends.

There is one other problem with bringing Q back. John de Lancie has aged much since his last appearance in Voyager(did he make one in Enterprise). I will be obvious that he is much older. Qs are supposed to be omnipotent. I find it hard to believe they age.

That could be explained easily - he could WANT to look older to match Picard’s age or anything like that.

Possible, I suppose.

I have to say I have a bad feeling about bringing back Picard.

I have a bad feeling about Star Trek in general anymore. Once they started with the Kelvin timeline, they never should have returned to the original. The whole point of creating the Kelvin timeline was to start over and to leave the original universe to rest in peace. But now they have gone back to it. It is bound to confuse fans just getting into Trek. I think the continuity is so messed up and confused, I don’t think it can be fixed. I think I am done with it. Sorry.

Don’t be afraid, if the rumours are correct, the new Picard show will once and forever destroy the original timeline.

What do you mean by that?

There are many youtube videos covering that rumour, here is one of them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLl17YXrAZY

My God, what a mess.

oojason said:

& may also be some elements in…

‘Homeward’ too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeward_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWYc1tRMU0M

 

I am not seeing a contradiction here. In both circumstances Picard was trying to prevent/halt a violation of the prime directive.

oojason said:

Warbler said:

pittrek said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I liked Insurrection…

Me too. It feels like a long TNG episode, which for many people is a problem, and it contradicts an episode of TNG, but compared to Nemesis it’s a masterpiece.

Which episode did Insurrection contradict?

‘Journey’s End’, I think…?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey's_End_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJLH2p0sFmQ
 

That whole thing was stupid. Why couldn’t they figure out that the sins of that father are not those of the son? Picard is not responsible for something an ancestor of his did. Also why did they make the ancestor Spanish. Wouldn’t have made more sense for him to be French?

NeverarGreat said:

pittrek said:

Warbler said:

pittrek said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I liked Insurrection…

Me too. It feels like a long TNG episode, which for many people is a problem, and it contradicts an episode of TNG, but compared to Nemesis it’s a masterpiece.

Which episode did Insurrection contradict?

I don’t remember the English titles of the episodes, but there was the last episode with Wesley, I think season 7 - the situation was similar - the Federation has decided to forcefully remove a colony of American Indians because somebody else wanted it. Picard’s attitude was “I don’t like it, but it’s an order”. In Insurrection the situation is very similar, but now for some reason Picard decides to do a small insurrection to defend them.

Although the situation is similar in these respects, there is one major difference - in Journey’s End the colony has been recently reclassified as being in Cardassian space and may be wiped out if not relocated, whereas the colony in Insurrection is still in Federation space and under no existential threat.

It can also be argued that the situation Journey’s End did not constitute a violation of the prime directive where as the situation in Insurrection did.

pittrek said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

They can safely ignore Voyager. And Q flat out told Picard in the finale that the trial never ends.

There is one other problem with bringing Q back. John de Lancie has aged much since his last appearance in Voyager(did he make one in Enterprise). I will be obvious that he is much older. Qs are supposed to be omnipotent. I find it hard to believe they age.

That could be explained easily - he could WANT to look older to match Picard’s age or anything like that.

Possible, I suppose.

I have to say I have a bad feeling about bringing back Picard.

I have a bad feeling about Star Trek in general anymore. Once they started with the Kelvin timeline, they never should have returned to the original. The whole point of creating the Kelvin timeline was to start over and to leave the original universe to rest in peace. But now they have gone back to it. It is bound to confuse fans just getting into Trek. I think the continuity is so messed up and confused, I don’t think it can be fixed. I think I am done with it. Sorry.

Don’t be afraid, if the rumours are correct, the new Picard show will once and forever destroy the original timeline.

What do you mean by that?

pittrek said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I liked Insurrection…

Me too. It feels like a long TNG episode, which for many people is a problem, and it contradicts an episode of TNG, but compared to Nemesis it’s a masterpiece.

Which episode did Insurrection contradict?

What a weird story. I would love to hear Mayo Clinic’s side of the story. But it does seem like the Mayo Clinic screwed up in multiple ways.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Warbler said:

Handman said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

As Picard had a love for archeology, I like the Indiana Jones comparison.

Can you really see Picard running around punching nazis and looking for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, using a whip to climb things and swing from one thing to another and as a weapon, all while wearing a brown leather jacket and fedora?

You mean this guy?

I mean the cerebal Picard from the tv series. If you ask me, that scene just did not fit the Picard from the show. The movies never got Picard right.

Ah, First Contact. It may be the best of the TNG films, but that’s not saying very much.

They never got TNG right in the films.

SilverWook said:

Better now?

Maybe Picard becomes an amateur detective? Solving crimes while doing his Ambassador thing. It’ll be like Murder She Wrote, only in space. 😛

Meh.

Handman said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

As Picard had a love for archeology, I like the Indiana Jones comparison.

Can you really see Picard running around punching nazis and looking for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, using a whip to climb things and swing from one thing to another and as a weapon, all while wearing a brown leather jacket and fedora?

You mean this guy?

I mean the cerebal Picard from the tv series. If you ask me, that scene just did not fit the Picard from the show. The movies never got Picard right.

RC Cola

Pepsi

Seagram’s 7

Early Times

Possessed said:

If you’re looking at it literally yes. What they are saying is that their characters have a somewhat similar spirit.

I guess I just don’t see it.

Possessed said:

Warbler said:

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

As Picard had a love for archeology, I like the Indiana Jones comparison.

Can you really see Picard running around punching nazis and looking for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, using a whip to climb things and swing from one thing to another and as a weapon, all while wearing a brown leather jacket and fedora?

Kinda?

Well I can’t.

You do understand we aren’t talking about literally reshooting Indiana Jones but with Picard instead right? Do you know how comparisons work?

I’m just not seeing how you could compare the two, they are completely different.

TV’s Frink said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

As Picard had a love for archeology, I like the Indiana Jones comparison.

Can you really see Picard running around punching nazis and looking for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, using a whip to climb things and swing from one thing to another and as a weapon, all while wearing a brown leather jacket and fedora?

Kinda?

Well I can’t.

SilverWook said:

As Picard had a love for archeology, I like the Indiana Jones comparison.

Can you really see Picard running around punching nazis and looking for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the Covenant, using a whip to climb things and swing from one thing to another and as a weapon, all while wearing a brown leather jacket and fedora?