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Wanderer_

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27-Dec-2019
Last activity
7-Mar-2020
Posts
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Post History

Post
#1325478
Topic
Does Kylo really deserve to be redeemed? Did he deserve to be Reys love interest?
Time

Shopping Maul said:

Well why the hell did Vader deserve redemption?
He didn’t, we tolerated it because Vader was well written and it was easier for us to feel that his love for his son was enough to make him turn back.

At least Kylo had layers, some obvious conflict.

Mm, this is an odd one. Vader had many more layers than Kylo. Vader was always in conflict, he was a slave to the dark side. Kylo chose to be the monster he became and I honestly don’t think the movies gave us reasons for him to have let darkness grown inside of him.

Post
#1324311
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

But conversely…

  • Luke learns the error of his ways and becomes a true hero

What error? He was right, the Jedi should end, his explanation to Rey as to why the Jedi order failed was the truth. And he wasn’t the hero, he bought the resistance some time instead of actually stopping the first order. Rey saved the resistance in the end.

  • It’s not whether you buy from a black market but what you choose to do
  • Poe learns the error of his ways and becomes a true leader

… By leading the resistance out of a tunnel? I would say he was far more of a leader in TFA where he lead a platoon that destroyed the starkiller base. What did he do in TLJ?

  • Rey is tempted by the darkside and rejects it and becomes a true hero

Lol, that is a very low bar to be a hero.

  • Finn tries an act of stupidity and a hero saves him

Finn tries to save the resistance by striking the core of the canon. Rose prevented that, not to mention one of the lamest lines of dialogue in all of star wars.

  • Holdo is a gruff unlikeable character trope, the kind who has their heart in the right place all along

Doesn’t make her a good character. She was a bad leader, confrontational and irresponsible. She failed to disclose her plan to the second in command… And that line “if you only believe it when you can see it…” ugh. Who writes this stuff.

Personally the stakes are irrelevant, small or big, the overall movie is what matters. Which is … a mixed bag.

Stakes is what defines a hero,otherwise everyone is a hero. Which is an oxymoron.

Post
#1324308
Topic
Does Kylo really deserve to be redeemed? Did he deserve to be Reys love interest?
Time

DominicCobb said:

Whether you think he deserves it or not, Kylo was pretty obviously being set up for redemption every step of the way. They’ve basically confirmed this saying it was the plan all along.

How though? Not in the first one, not in TLJ. What scenes pointed in that direction?
Outisde of TRoS nothing did, and there lies the big development flaw of this character.

Post
#1324249
Topic
Does Kylo really deserve to be redeemed? Did he deserve to be Reys love interest?
Time

So one of the things that upsets me the most about the sequel trilogy is Kylo’s redemption. Personally I don’t feel he deserves or was setup to be redeemed.

In TFA he clearly moves away from his family to became a dark sider for no good reason. He had the love of Leia and Luke, he turned away from it all just to pursue… something? the movies never really explain his motivation to go to the dark side, was it lust for power? Maybe in the comics it will be clearer but its kinda late now.

Anyway, he kills his father just so he breaks away from the light in a deliberate decision. Right there, the most personal act of evil in the series (not even Vader could kill his son) setting him apart from Vader. And at that point it was clear to me they were setting Kylo up to be this ultimate villain.

In TLJ, he throws another tantrum just because Snoke tells him he was no Vader and ends up killing him… that commitment to the dark side wasn’t there apparently (enough to kill his father, not enough to finish training). So again, Kylo is erratic, unstable and doesn’t know what he wants. Well, we all know what he wants - Rey, but he doesn’t deserve her. He is a monster that pursues her, tries to manipulate her… a murderer trying hard to have his victim run away with him. If this reminds you of any serial Killer story you’ve heard you wouldn’t be too far off, sick, demented and delusional. Personally I think its really disturbing that TROS really went for this Stockholm Syndrome BS.

By the end of TLJ Kylo was set on killing Luke and the Resistance, Rey included. He was rejected by her on the ship, and by the end of the movie she rejects him again by closing the Falcon door on him… a physical and symbolic act that sadly didn’t carry over TROS… By the end of TLJ Kylo was a savage animal, no control over his humanity.

People compare him to Vader… Anakin had to move to the dark side to save someone he loved, not because he wanted to. And by the time he had converted he was a slave to the dark side and couldn’t break free as showed in Return of the Jedi - “I must obey my master, I must take you to him” - Kylo was the opposite, he chose the dark side, he has no redeemable qualities.

Post
#1324247
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NFBisms said:

TLJ loves the hell out of heroism, so I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. I just fundamentally understand the movie differently than you, I guess.

Would you be able to show some examples of that? Because TLJ is pretty much a de-construction of Star Wars hero narrative. There are no heroes in TLJ.

  • The Jedi are corrupted, Luke stepped away because of it and because of it he could not be the hero Rey wanted him to be;
  • The resistance is just as crooked as the “bad guys” from the first order, buying black market weapons to fund their ideology;
  • Poe is a wrong doer who doesn’t care about the lives of his comrades, only glory;
  • Rey couldn’t be a hero, since wan’t trained and by the end of the movie she is still holding on to the prospects of someone taking her in as a pupil;
  • Finn tries an act of heroism, the movie stops him;
  • Holdo does an act of heroism, but she wasn’t written as a likeable character. Constantly opposing the characters the audience knew and loved (poe);

Personally I don’t see any acts of heroism in TLJ, simply because the stakes aren’t that high in the movie.

Post
#1321964
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DrDre said:

This video nails how I feel about TLJ now:

Revisiting the Last Jedi (and why it is alright)

https://youtu.be/qlOnKW_gFLE

Like me the guy disliked the film, but has kind of come around to liking many elements of it, and feels there’s a great film at its core. The guy goes through what he feels are the strong, and weaker elements of the film in a pretty balanced manner.

I will never be convinced that TLJ is a good film, when it has terrible writing. The main arc makes no sense, its sub plots are redundant and devoid of character development. Every character in the move ends exactly where they left of in TFA.

This not to mention Prequel levels of cheese, like Rose’s forced romance, BB8 fighting people and driving a Walker, Holdos Disney approach to leadership - “if you only believe it when you see it, you will never make it through the night”.

The movie had potential, to take the force knowledge in a new direction… “the light, the dark… but there is so much more”. This was said by Luke in the trailer, and never realised in the movie. Despite Lukes initial attempts to shake things up (and he was 100% correct) the movie proves him wrong and claims Rey as the last Jedi. Why? After the first half of the movie trying to convince me the Jedi as a religion should end, why is she now one of them? Why not become an outcast, a Grey force user? Like Luke was in the legends. Someone who controls both light and dark…

Post
#1321711
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

DominicCobb said:

It’s worth still taking these details with a grain of salt, but The Playlist is confirming it’s real, based on multiple sources: https://theplaylist.net/duel-of-the-fates-leak-colin-trevorrow-star-wars-20200114/

I watched a video reading the whole thing, while not perfect (duh) its so much better than what we got. And it feels like star wars. Loved the finnale and the Coruscant siege in look of the beacon.

Post
#1321710
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I disagree with that article completely. Rey Palpatine wasn’t done for any storytelling reason, it was just done to please people who were pissed that Rey was a nobody in TLJ. And I really don’t like Rey taking the Skywalker name without permission, just because some ghosts smiled at her. If Jeff Bezos smiled at me, would that mean I’m a billionaire? Rey’s arc in TROS makes no sense, and it devalues TLJ’s message that anyone can be a hero. It’s one of those moments that was clearly designed to be a dig at TLJ, like “Go away, Rose!” and “A Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect.”

I hate that they used Palpatine of all things, but I feel it was to fill the void of a main villain in the saga now that Snoke is gone, and to explain why she was so powerful at everything with no real training of anything. She’s the first character in the Saga to do that and of course it requires a reason.

Me, I would just love for Luke to have trained her in TLJ. Wasted opportunity.

Post
#1318824
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

mykyta-R4 said:

Force-Abel said:

From a member who tries to twist moderators words to make a point, and in first posts on here said…

Wanderer_ said:

i would say TLJ fans are the ones who just use racism and sexism as a card against people who have genuine criticism of the movie. Its quite toxic really,

but when moderator challenges you, you then say…

Wanderer_ said:

Im sorry to hear there was indeed a lot of hate and racism thrown into the mix…

^ Yet you have no problem with throwing it around yourself!

Excuse me? The mod was refering to racist remarks used to bash the movies, or hate speech towards the actors. Something i never saw myself… Ths review i posted has non of that. Its a well written review…

This is exactly what i mean, any semblance of criticism makes some ultra sensitive people go mad and twist words and take things out of context. Its toxic, it destroys discussions and you are being an example of it.

Next time if you want to throw shade at someone check the material they posted instead of assuming things. And if you dont care for that material you wont be in a position to judge.

Post
#1318615
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

oojason said:

A ‘balanced review’ and ‘constructive criticism’? Doesn’t seem like it - and I’ve no wish spending two hours finding out.
;

Your choice of course. I find suspicious that people get put off by the name of the channel, honestly its clear to me that any review pointing put flaws and problems on the sequel trilogy wpuld get dismissed by random reasons.

Screen Rant for example is one of most thoughtful and chilled movie critiques on YouTube… But it has “rant” in the name so im going to dismiss it.

Post
#1318600
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

oojason said:

Wanderer_ said:

The unbridled rage take on the movie is here, and it’s awesome: https://youtu.be/0528-TlRODI

A 2 hour long youtube video from ‘MauLer’ on bashing TROS? Titled ‘TROS: An Unbridled Rage’?

No thanks - personally I’d rather watch something with balance to their videos, something without a pre-conceived agenda - and not 2 hours of a ‘video ranting about a crappy movie’ - or ‘Disney’s failure is now complete’.

Though fair play to those that do.
 

Its a very fair, balanced review though. That said, i understand how people who loved the movie cant take well constructed criticism, as seen with TLJ.

Fyi, its not a rant or enraged review despite the name of the channel.

Post
#1317625
Topic
Why don't people hate the Palpatine re-casting in ESB yet despise Force ghost Anakin's re-casting in RotJ?
Time

screams in the void said:

Omni said:

Just because someone prefers some SE stuff doesn’t mean they don’t want the OUT released.

this doesn’t change the fact that I am still baffled by someone preferring this particular SE change on a site that was explicitly created to preserve and promote/petition for the original theatrical versions of the Original Trilogy .

I just assumed it was a site for people who love thr original trilogy. Why must things be seen in absolutes?

Post
#1317550
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

Broom Kid said:

People don’t overcome their shortcomings and then never ever make them ever again for the rest of their life, though.

His mistake in this example is “seeing that his nephew will commit genocide on a scale his father never dreamed of and instinctually flicking on a lightsaber” - before immediately feeling a flood of total shame at himself in response. It’s actually a lesser mistake, considering the first time he tried to save one of his genocidal relatives he kicked the hell out of him and then cut his hand off before just barely managing to stop himself from delivering the killing blow.

Nobody solves a problem in their life once and then it stays solved forever. Even real life heroes struggle with those sorts of things. That he made that mistake (among others, including subtly succumbing to hubris and vanity) doesn’t erase his maturation as a character (especially considering the rest of the film’s characterization of Luke, and Hamill’s amazing work in bringing it depth and meaning). It complicates it, but by the end of the film’s arc, it’s enriched. Luke does something no Jedi’s ever done, not even Yoda. He only unlocks the potential and ability within himself to do that because he learns - finally - from the failures he kept incurring (as we all do) when his life continued past “happily ever after.”

I think you nailed it. His mistake in that flashback is minor except that he Ben catches him doing it and lashes out. Had Ben not been on the verge, that would not have happened. Luke makes a minor mistake and Ben goes into a rage. That shows that Snoke had already turned him. Luke isn’t about to Kill Ben. And I have said many times that Luke in TLJ very much pulls from the Luke we saw in the OT. His stand at the end of ROTJ was great, but that is a moment. I really feel the rest of ROTJ and the two previous films is more true to his character and insisting that he must live up to that high point of heroism at the end of ROTJ is lifting him above being human and putting him on a pedestal. TLJ brings humanity back to the character and makes him more real and relatable like he was in the OT.

You guys are missing the point, Luke already had his failure arc, not in Return of thr jedi, but in empire stris back.
Luke did nothing wrong in ROTJ, he had motives to kill vader, and lol “cold blooded”… It was a battle for life,Vader threatened his sister so he did what he needed to do.

The point is Star wars is not a depiction of reality, its about heroism and positive inspiration. Luke was an inspiration, now he is a grumpy uncle. Realist? Yes. Desirable? Hell no. And the worst of all having this grumpy Luke works agains Reys character development and works against the movie.

So i loved Luke and i loved Rey, TLJ ruined both. They were both useless, undecided morons.

Post
#1317365
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

act on instinct said:

I guess this is where we eventually get to our own fanedits and personal headcanon, I want to agree it’s probably best to consider TLJ in the standalone category, but a few establishing pieces might need to be added from TFA for it to truly work and make sense to the blind viewer. The ending as ambiguous is fine, ha maybe the ultimate subversion would be that we never did get a definitive conclusion and are left to wonder, definitely a meta take, makes it more fun to me in theory.

It works for TLJ and for TFA as well. We can just imagine what happens after Rey meets Luke.

Thats what i do every day xD

Post
#1317357
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

Honestly I think the editor is bullshitting around the answer. The way she answered it just seemed rather weird. Sure, that could’ve been intended to be the last shot when they filmed it, but was who was in the shot always the same?

I don’t think John Boyega and Mark Hamill have ever realized how their negative comments can be lightning rods for online bullying. They can say tons of complimentary things and people will ignore them, but as soon as they say anything negative it becomes fuel for online attacks.

NeverarGreat said:

The map to Luke is discovered on Jakku by an old friend of Luke’s, and the first person BB-8 carrying the map runs into is the granddaughter of Palpatine, who is in speeder distance of the Millennium Falcon and happens to use this to escape the planet and they happen to be picked up within five minutes by Han Solo and brought to a place that has Luke’s old lightsaber in the basement. All of these things, save the connection between Han and the Falcon, are complete coincidences.

Another reason why Rey Nobody would’ve made a lot more sense!

I would agree to that, but this means that either she had training before in the force, or JJ simply wouldn’t have her beat Kylo Ren in TFA. You cant be both a nobody, have no previous training and be great at everything.

I defended Rey as a character when she was proficient im every that she did, with the underlying assumption that there is a reason for her to know all of this. The force isn’t a magical gift giving plot device, in past movies it was required time, effort and lots of tears before someone was good with the force.

Post
#1317181
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Cthulhunicron said:

Wanderer_ said:

FreezingTNT2 said:

Cthulhunicron said:

I need to rewatch this one, but I’m beginning to feel this is the best of the sequel trilogy. I have issues with the film, but I don’t hate it.

To me, I feel like I have the same opinion. The Force Awakens destroyed every single accomplishment in Return of the Jedi, copied the original 1977 movie, and undid Han Solo’s character growth. The Rise of Skywalker not only destroys the meaning of Anakin’s redemption and sacrifice, but also undermines this entire franchise.

The Last Jedi is awful, yes, but at least it tried to continue the story that was told in The Force Awakens, albeit badly. Thus, I consider The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker to be worse movies than The Last Jedi.

TLJ destroys Luke. So i guess they all work together against the OT characters. And for the record I never felt TFA destroyed Hans Solo, he was pretty much the Hans we knew and loved from the originals. He was a scoundrel, not really boyfriend material… And neither was Leia.

I’ve never understood this perspective that TLJ destroys Luke. He makes a mistake, overcomes it, and has a heroic death. He’s humanized, and still gets to be badass at the end.

I appreciate the spectacle, the music and intent behind bit… But honestly it was a bit lacking in the end. My personal interpretation od course and i respect people who loved that arc, but Luke already had a perfext hero journey, this step back didnt really add much to the universe, in fact it affects the story in a negative way. Rey needed a mentor, a father figure. Luke should have been that figure and his role would have been much more purposeful and fulfilling. As a result Rey was stagnant in the movie, Luke never really redeemed himself imo and we lost 2 great character opportunities in one sitting. For what? The cinematography for the final scene was amazing… And thats about it.

TLJ story and character arcs were pretty much nothing. Some people like that, i dont.

Post
#1317055
Topic
Why don't people hate the Palpatine re-casting in ESB yet despise Force ghost Anakin's re-casting in RotJ?
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

Wanderer_ said:

ray_afraid said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Wanderer_ said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Marjorie Eaton with chimp eyes looks like “a guy in a cheap mask”, whilst Ian McDiarmid in cheap ROTS makeup looks “remastered”.

I don’t share that opinion, either.

Both have make up effects applied, the original holds up poorly whereas Ians make up looks a lot more organic and believable. In fact while watching the original version i always felt the emperors face was about to melt off at any stage of the movie.
https://images.app.goo.gl/kVczqCH7ggaiEoDM9

Well, if you compare Revisited Palpatine to OUT Palpatine, of course the former’s gonna look superior to the latter.

I assumed that was the comparison :p
Unless there is yet another change i haven’t seen.

We’re discussing the 2004 change where George replaced the original ESB Emperor with the horrible RotS monster face Emperor. Not Adywan’s excellent fanedit.

I honestly never noticed the difference, in my mind the emperor was always Ian.

You don’t seem to get what we’re saying - the comparison you posted was 1980 monkeylady Emperor and Adywan’s fan edit alteration of the 2004 Emperor, which is vastly superior to the official 2004 Emperor because he literally cut and pasted images of McDiarmid’s ROTJ makeup on top of it.

THIS is the official 2004 one, which is just McDiarmid in his ROTS makeup and it looks like absolute trash.

I understand, but while its not as good as aparent fan made version, its still much better than the original i watched on tape. I dont understand whats so bad about the sample you posted.

Post
#1316643
Topic
<strong>The Rise Of Skywalker</strong> — Official Review and Opinions Thread
Time

fmalover said:

Because of the massive letdown that was TFA I decided to read the plot summary on Wikipedia because if there is one thing I learned from TFA it’s to never trust JJ Abrams ever again, and I have made the right decision.

Rey is Palatine’s granddaughter. Seriously? Why couldn’t she simply be Rey from nowhere?

Rey always had to either be related to someone or have had training as a kid. During TFA i always assumed she was a student of Lukes that survived the destruction of the temple. Luke to protect her sent her away. Its thr only explanation i could come up for her abilities. The force, not matter how strong it is, doesnt give you abilities.

Post
#1316364
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

FreezingTNT2 said:

Cthulhunicron said:

I need to rewatch this one, but I’m beginning to feel this is the best of the sequel trilogy. I have issues with the film, but I don’t hate it.

To me, I feel like I have the same opinion. The Force Awakens destroyed every single accomplishment in Return of the Jedi, copied the original 1977 movie, and undid Han Solo’s character growth. The Rise of Skywalker not only destroys the meaning of Anakin’s redemption and sacrifice, but also undermines this entire franchise.

The Last Jedi is awful, yes, but at least it tried to continue the story that was told in The Force Awakens, albeit badly. Thus, I consider The Force Awakens and The Rise of Skywalker to be worse movies than The Last Jedi.

TLJ destroys Luke. So i guess they all work together against the OT characters. And for the record I never felt TFA destroyed Hans Solo, he was pretty much the Hans we knew and loved from the originals. He was a scoundrel, not really boyfriend material… And neither was Leia.