Voss Caltrez

I never cared about either film’s planet’s destruction. Ep. 7/TFA improved on the presentation because we get to see some Great Gatsby-types look up at the sky as the approaching red beam is about to light them up, plus it’s more drawn out with sad music. But still.
It would have been better had it been a planet, with characters we were familiar with or were introduced to. As it stands, the few beings we see on the planets are merely cannon fodder to progress the story. Had it been a planet that was inhabited characters we liked or cared for, it would come across as more violent and/or disturbing, and might raise the MPAA rating. To appease mass audiences with children, we get a cartoon version of genocide.

Yup. I only had The Empire Strikes Back briefly on DVD, and I never owned any of the other films on home video.

ATMachine said:

The original opening for ESB had the crawl as black letters on a white ground, which was then revealed to be the snowy plains of Hoth seen from a bird’s eye view.

In post-production this was revised so that the opening scene of the film took place in space, with Vader’s fleet dispatching probes to look for the Rebels. This kind of accidentally cemented the idea that a SW movie must have its opening crawl take place against a backdrop of stars.

Really? checks youTube really quick
I think I would have liked the original better, but then again, maybe having the opening scene among the stars, better cements the idea that, hey, you’re about to watch a story about STAR Wars.

Lord Haseo said:

Voss Caltrez said:
In hindsight I really like the fact that telekinesis was saved for The Empire Strikes Back, and The Force seemed like something you had to really work at, even for someone strong with the Force like Luke.

With the little bit of “training” Luke had in STAR WARS it was never established that Ben even taught him how to use telekinesis so that ability came out of nowhere. Truthfully both of them shouldn’t have been able to do that.

Good point. I’m assuming Luke was never in contact with Obi-Wan’s ghost until Hoth. So how did he learn telekinesis? However, it’s even more blatant in TFA.

I really enjoyed the movie but there were many things that I thought weren’t good.

-Maz Kanata and Snoke
They looked too CGI for my tastes. And I really hate Snoke’s name.

-The Resistance and The First Order
Why is there a Resistance? The Republic is in power. Shouldn’t it just be the Republic’s forces against The First Order? It seems like a lazy way of redoing The Rebels Vs the Empire.

-Rey becoming an excellent lightsaber duelist, and suddenly performing Jedi-mind tricks, using telekinesis, and reversing Kylo’s mind probe seemed too easy. Of course, I’m sure it’s going to be explained she has some super connection to the Force, but it comes across more as lazy writing. In hindsight I really like the fact that telekinesis was saved for The Empire Strikes Back, and The Force seemed like something you had to really work at, even for someone strong with the Force like Luke.

I don’t mind the “I don’t like sand” line, although it’s not very good.

The love story is awful though. Anakin starts off like a creepy stalker like everyone says. Padme brings Anakin into a romantic setting, dressed very sexy, but says “No, Anakin, we can’t do this.” Wearing a reavling bustier isn’t the best way to stifle the obvious romantic feelings your bodyguard has for you. RobotChicken spoofs this perfectly.

Geonosis looks too much like Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Barsoom/Mars. Younger audiences wouldn’t catch the reference, but I did, and it took me out of the movie.

The Jedi forbidding romance among their order seems to close to Earth-religions, and all the criticisms that go along with them. You can argue, and I’d probably agree, that it was Lucas’ attempt to show the Jedi weren’t completely perfect either, and to sympathize more with Anakin’s eventual turn. However, it didn’t make me sympathic towards him. It just made me dislike ALL the Jedi.

…the opening scene take place in outer space? I read that was the case somewhere online. I looked back at all the films, prequels and originals, and sure enough, they all start off in space. Same with the Force Awakens.
My question is, does every film have to open with a outer space scene for it to feel like Star Wars?

What about other “must haves” of the Star Wars series?

Does every film have to have someone saying, “I have a bad feeling about this”?

Does every film have to have R2-D2 and C-3PO? I also read that Lucas said that those characters would be in all the films, which is some kind of reference to an Akira Kurosawa film. Which is why those droids are in the prequels even if it doesn’t make any sense, at least in the way their re-introduced. If they weren’t in the prequels would it have felt jarring, and less-Star Wars-like?

What other recurring themes insist on appearing in Star Wars films. And do you agree that the producers should insist on continuing the tradition, or should they break tradition when the story deems it necessary?

I didn’t like that Rey made two connecting strikes against Kylo that looked like she had cut off his leg, and then killed him with a head shot. Instead, we just see part of his outfit get cut off, and he gets a cool, Anakin-like scar. The way it was shot and choreographed, it didn’t look like those would be graze wounds.

Worst of all, it took me out of the film when she suddenly gained Force knowledge at the perfect moment, twice. Without any training whatsoever, she suddenly knows the Jedi mind trick, and later, how to successfully fight off a Jedi and Sith trained warrior. I liked how the OT was realistic in some ways. Maybe realistic is not the right word, but they avoided cliche’s at certain points in order to make what’s most a typical fairy tale story, fresh.

For example, despite Luke being the hero, we don’t a chance to see him go King Arthur, and kick ass with is father’s sword. Luke doesn’t end up getting the girl (and not because Lucas changed it to her being his sister). And Luke doesn’t magically save the day when he first confronts Vader. He not only loses to him, but loses his left hand in the process.

I think part of the problem with the prequels is that three films was just not enough time to properly tell Anakin’s story.
But Lucas started off numbering the films with TESB, with roman numerals.

How could the prequels have consisted of more than three films without ruining the Episode system or confusing people?
I was thinking what if the first film was Episode 0 but that wouldn’t work for two reasons. First being roman numerals don’t have a zero, and second, it would be detrimental to marketing purposes. The second film would be called “Episode 1”, third film “Episode 2” and so on.

Any ideas?

I didn't really know of him growing up. I only became aware of him when finding out his connection to Peter Cushing and why George Lucas probably cast him. I didn't like the character of Count Dooku in the SW films, and his performance in them wasn't anything special in my opinion.

That said, when I later saw him in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, his brief time on screen was very memorable. I also remember him Sleepy Hollow, but that was before I knew who he was. 

I've heard great things about his portrayal as Count Dracula as well as his performances in other films, which I'll be checking out soon. It sounds like he lived an extraordinary life from what I've been reading about him recently.

RIP Christopher Lee

For me, most of the design failures in the PT are because Lucas or whoever was in charge of story and design wanted to continuously do homages to other things, maybe hoping that duplicating that approach would make the newer films as successful as the older ones. For example, having a Hammer Films actor appear in the AOTC, Commander Cody being based off of a 50s character Commando Cody.

So visually, the 1950s USA reference with Dex's Diner took me right out of the film instantly. That had no place in the SW universe. 

Then there's the big lumbering, 1950s styled robot/alien in robot armor Wat Tambor who represents the Techno Union. It seemed more like the producers were being cute then trying to actually insert characters who seem like they would exist in this universe.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Voss Caltrez said:

One more thing, I never liked the reveal of Vader under the mask in ROTJ. I assumed his voice was affected somewhat by his respiratory machine but even so, a British accent would not disappear.

Umm, I'm pretty sure Shaw spoke with his natural accent in the movie. 

 But Shaw didn't speak as Vader for the vast majority of the original trilogy. You get used to James Earl Jones' voice, and nothing about it sounds soft and/or British. So when you finally see and hear Vader without the mask it doesn't even feel like this is the same guy that was ruthlessly cutting down rebels. If Lucas was going for a Rorschach-like reveal I guess it's okay, but I assumed that even without the mask Vader would have some bass in his voice. And not sound British. 

In the Force Unleashed I like how [spoilers]during the end scene, Vader is talking with his mask off, his suit badly damaged, but it's still in the same JEJ-styled voice. He sees Starkiller's lifeless body on the throne room floor and says "He is dead." [/spoilers]

DuracellEnergizer said:

Voss Caltrez said:

I didn't even get the reference to chariots for the pod-racers. I just didn't like the design. They didn't seem like something that would be in the SW universe.

No offense, but that doesn't make a lick of sense. The podracers are basically just souped-up landspeeders.

 Landspeeders aren't being led by cables connected to engines, at least none of the ones I saw in the OT. The design of the pod racers look superfluous to me and now I know why, because the designers were trying to emulate chariots being led by horses like in Ben Hur.

RicOlie_2 said:

As has been mentioned, the pod-racers and droidekas had good designs. I don't understand those who hate the pods because they're "obvious copies of chariots." As if everything in the OT was completely separate from real world concepts.

I also like Theed, Otah Gunga (or whatever that Gungan city was called). The Gungans...not so much, though they could have been tolerable if the ones that got screen time weren't so goofy. General Grievous's wheel thing isn't bad, although I don't know if one could really consider it a success in terms of design.

 I didn't even get the reference to chariots for the pod-racers. I just didn't like the design. They didn't seem like something that would be in the SW universe.

I didn't like the Droidekas either but they were a little better than the roger*roger droids. I didn't like how everything in the prequels had technological designs that were modern and smooth. In the OT everything was square and clunky like 80s tech devices, and in recent times everything got less angular and more curved. So shouldn't the tech in the PT be similar? The Droidekas also reflect this incongruity.

I pictured Anakin to look a little older than Luke, mid-to-late 20s, maybe early 30s. Dark features, tall, masculine, strongly built. I imagined him to be an alpha-male type, at least in appearance, but be a charismatic and caring person, something like Starkiller's personality when he turned good.

I never imagined him to look the same age or younger than Luke. And although it makes sense that he would have light colored hair like Luke, I always imagined a young Vader to have dark features. 

One more thing, I never liked the reveal of Vader under the mask in ROTJ. I assumed his voice was affected somewhat by his respiratory machine but even so, a British accent would not disappear. I also thought his face was going to be way more scarred up as hinted in ESB, but here he's just a pale bald older Brit, with or without eyebrows. 

The wardrobe design is pretty bad, at least for the Jedi. Despite the alien Jedi's facial features, overall, the Jedi come across as visually bland, all wearing brown hooded cloaks. I understand that Lucas was trying to stress the idea, visually, of Jedi living and thinking like monks but regardless the end result was making these characters look bland.

Kamino was a great looking planet. I know that's a theme of the Star Wars universe to have planets that are based on simple ideas: a cloud planet, swamp planet, desert planet, etc. So one fully covered with ocean continued in that same vein but provided some great atmosphere. Unfortunately the cloning station looked to "present day" in that it looked like the Apple store.

Purple should never been introduced into the Jedi's lightsabers. Blue vs Red, serenity vs anger was a simple but effective visual distinction for the good guys and bad guys. Luke was originally going to have a blue lightsaber in Return of the Jedi but for design resigns they wanted it to match the green of Endor. I'm okay with that because you could argue that since Luke was new to the ways of the Jedi, the lightsaber he constructed on his own, without proper training, might be different from the standard Jedi lightsaber. But having all the Jedi with blue, green, and purple lightsabers made it look like a rave, especially when congregated to fight on the wannabe Tatooine planet.

The droid cannon fodder had silly designs that made them look totally un-menacing. 

I did however like the design and colors of the senate room where Yoda and Sidious do battle. It felt like Star Wars right there despite my gripe with showing Yoda bounce around like a pin ball with a lightsaber.

Not putting so much focus on the clones. I think the Clone Wars are mentioned twice in ANH but I always took it was one of many wars that Anakin and Obi-Wan could have fought in. 

Seeing an army of Temura Morrison's and the minor mystery of who ordered their creation didn't catch my interest at all. There's no mention or sight of any modern day clones in the OT so it feels weird to see such importance placed upon them in the PT.

Having a recurring villain in the PT would have helped it a lot too. Having a new arch villain in each film didn't work well. Darth Maul is cool and mysterious but that doesn't go anywhere because he gets killed.

Count Dooku is kind of interesting at first because he's initially portrayed as this character who is in the middle of battle. He believes the Jedi are corrupted, but he also fears the Sith and this Darth Tyranus guy...but then it turns out he is Darth Tyranus and he was just BSing Obi-Wan. Also, I get Lucas is going for meta symmetry with the OT and PT by having the Hammer version of Van Hesling and Dracula but I think that's a poor excuse to to cast Christopher Lee as a Jedi/Sith and all him "Count." Takes me out the movie for a minute.

And I never would have put in a cyborg Sith with breathing problems as a villain in the same movie that Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Darth Vader is supposed to be unique, so it takes a little bit away from him when you see a proto-Vader just before.

Anakin. From the way he was described in the original trilogy it makes him much more intriguing than Obi-Wan. 

I think that an Obi-Wan-centric movies would work but I think the appeal of a prequel to the original films is to find out what Darth Vader was like as a Jedi, the heroic tales of Anakin Skywalker.

NeverarGreat said:

Perhaps the story doesn't need to be done vastly differently than the prequels to have no spoilers. As I've posted incarnations of this story elsewhere, this will be draft three of an evolving set of ideas forced into formation. Make of it what you will:

...

 There's some great ideas and suggestions in this thread, but this has easily been one of the most entertaining fan written prequels I've ever read.

But I don't quite get the ending. So is the hooded figure that presumably kills Anakin a clone of Anakin? 

DominicCobb said:

I agree that Struzan's SE posters are pretty dull, but his PT ones a great no matter what people think of the movies themselves. Anyway, it seems strange to complain about Struzan or even Struzan imitators (I quite liked that Super 8 poster) when they're the only ones trying to keep the old fashioned poster style. I'd rather a second-rate Struzan poster for TFA than a photoshop job.

Good point. However, if Struzan and his imitators are simply doing photo realistic collages how is that competing with Photoshop-created movie posters that utilize the same style: photos done in collage? It's okay for people like us who are nostalgic but what about the general public?

I'd rather have painted movie posters that were more stylistic and making use of the variety the medium allows then just trying to make something look like a photograph. A style that expresses a certain tone or evokes strong feeling.

I agree. The original movie posters for original films (ANH, ESB, ROTJ) were really fantastic. 

ANH had a somewhat retro (to me) 70s feel to it and the Frank Frazetta inspired poses. Felt exotic and a like a modern take on the imagery of Flash Gordon and John Carter of Mars.

ESB's poster highlighted the drama, action and slight romance in a perfect way.

ROTJ's poster finally placed Luke as the center piece.

Struzan's SE posters, while technically amazing, are somewhat dull. Had they actually been the covers for the DVDs that would have been nice though, giving a contrast to the original VHS CBSFOX art of the past. I also appreciate the color palette of the three. Brown, gold and tan for the 1st poster representing Tattooine and palette in the film. Cold blues and white for ESB representing Hoth and Cloud City. And green for Endor and the Lightsaber in ROTJ. They are very nice alternative posters for the movies that I wish had been used for the DVD releases.

However, had I never been exposed to the original posters I would think they are quite boring, or at least not reflective of the film's emotional impact. Why is Chewy represented do much in Struzan's ROTJ poster? Right next to Jabba?

I think his prequel posters are worse though. He did something different from the other posters by having Luke and Vader only appear in small silhouette, no heroes appear on the ESB poster, and each one having a distinct color palette.

The prequel posters though, at a glance, look roughly the same. Same color schemes, same collage usage for the characters. I'm just noticing now the theme symmetry of Anakin and Obi Wan's silhouettes on Ep III as compared to the ones appearing on ROTJ. That's a nice touch but the correlation is too subtle because it's dominated by the big heads floating.

Carthage said:

I'm not quite sure what I originally thought of Mace Windu in TPM, when I saw it many years ago. While his character was much better in the Novelization of ROTS and Shatterpoint, what do you think of Mace Windu/Samuel's performance in the prequels? Do you think his character added anything at all to the movies, or is he just another cardboard cutout random Jedi? What do you think motivated Lucas to attract an A lister like him to SW?

I didn't like him in Star Wars. He came across too much like a jerk but also too monotone and boring. The only Jedi that had that air of wisdom and empathy was Qui Gon Jinn.