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Voss Caltrez

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5-May-2015
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5-Dec-2018
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Post
#1258539
Topic
General Star Wars Questions
Time

A question about the Jedi’s vast abilities.

Jedi can read minds, levitate stuff, Force people and things, jump super high, see glimpses of the future, and slice through anything with their lightsaber.

In a one-on-one fight, how is anybody even a match for them, who is not a Sith?
They can deflect laser blasts, cut through regular melee weapons like nothing, and if they want, just push people out the way with their minds.

It worked out great in the OT, Luke was just beginning to learn the ways of the Force, so there was plenty of challenges for him to face.

But in Obi-Wan’s time, or even Qui-Gon Jinn’s, how was there any real challenge for a Jedi, outside of fellow Force users, like Sith Lords? Their were numerous Jedi back then and they were all well trained and adept witht he Force, and not late bloomers like Luke.

It just seems like with all their abilities, any fights they had would be pretty boring. I mean, apparently the Sith had been extinct for a long time until Darth Maul showed up.

Post
#1258536
Topic
General Star Wars Questions
Time

LexX said:

Voss Caltrez said:

In the Star Wars universe, what kind of pilots are there?

Luke wanted to get off the farm and join the Imperial academy as a pilot, so being a pilot in the military is one.
What others?

Of course there can be civilian pilots for shuttles, transports, freight ships up to a cruiser size vehicles. I doubt Luke was wanting to join the Empire or the Rebellion when he wanted to join the academy, just to get a pilot’s license or something and then gone off with that.

Ah, okay, thanks.
Shuttles, transports and freight ships gives me a better idea of the scope of piloting int SW universe.
I’m thinking that in Luke’s case though, it would be comparable to someone wanting to join the Navy or Air Force in order to fly jets. In “An Officer and a Gentleman,” Richard Gere wants to leave the squalor and do something with life. “I wanna fly jets!” So Luke would want something that requires some action, as opposed to becoming the SW equivalent of a airline pilot. And Empire or Rebellion, he’s off to see different places than just being stuck on the farm.

Post
#1258457
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

Shopping Maul said:

RogueLeader said:

The old Jedi Order took students from infancy in order to control their emotional attachments, which they saw as gateways to the dark side. This is why they were so reluctant to take on Anakin as a Jedi. I think it gave the wrong impression that learning how to use the Force took years, when that really isn’t the entirely the case. It has more to do with belief, and one’s ability to “let go of your conscious self”.

It also surprises me a little that people haven’t considered as much that the Force itself has changed between the trilogies. The Force isn’t a static ability, it’s dynamic and connected to life itself, making it in a way alive.

Episode 7 is literally called The Force Awakens. What does that mean? Is it not possible that this awakening is not partially responsible for the feats we’ve seen across the board in the new films, like Kylo Ren freezing blaster bolts, Rey’s fast-growing abilities, their subsequent Force-Skype sessions, Leia pulling herself back to the ship, Luke’s Force projection, even broom boy’s subtle Force pull?

You could even argue this began with Luke in the OT, the first real student of the Force since the Jedi Purge. He really only had a few weeks at most of official training with Yoda, but in Return of the Jedi, only a year later with no additional training under Yoda, he is on the verge of officially becoming a Jedi.

It raises some questions about the nature of the Force. Does the overall use of the Force have an affect on its potential in existing Force-users? Does the Force have a will of its own to choose who it acts through? Did training Jedi from infancy have a side-effect of limiting their relationship with the Force in ways that didn’t exist for those who discovered it at adulthood? Is the Force just like an ocean, where the tide can rise and fall?

I personally think these questions about the Force should really never be answered fully, and should remain mysterious, simple-yet-complicated, and sometimes contradictory, much like the Tao that inspired it, and also as a concept of a universal religion-symbol that George meant it to be, since religions are also endlessly debated upon.

I think the important theme we are meant to take from the Force is the ideas of faith and belief, the crux of all religions, and the internal power we can get from faith in our own lives, religious or not. Luke struggles with the Force in the OT because of his doubt in the Force and his own personal self-doubt.

Rey on the other hand grew up with the legend of Luke Skywalker and the Jedi, and not long after learning about the reality of the them, she slowly learns that she’s also connected to this Force and begins her own journey of self-discovery and self-actualization.

With broom boy, moments before his Force use, he is being told the story of Luke Skywalker’s grand stand against the evil First Order, with wonder in his eyes. He believes in the Jedi, in the Force, and that subtle moment, something he might not have even realized he did, is a representation of what the power of faith and hope can have in the world and in ourselves.

Anyway, just my two cents. Not trying to argue, just sharing my perspective.

It’s all good dude, I love discussing this stuff. And I acknowledge that I’m the one being a ‘conservative’ fan here. Since the Force is a pretty nebulous concept, it makes sense that we’d all get a different sense of what it might be.

Lucas is notorious for changing his mind as he goes along, but for me the Force sits where he stated during the writing sessions for RoTJ circa 1981 - that the Force is basically ‘space yoga’ that anyone can do as long as they apply themselves. Luke’s journey (again IMO) is that of someone seeking a black belt and the mindfulness of a Bodhisattva. I didn’t agree with Han’s TFA claim that it was ‘a magical power’. I see it as an undiscovered science - something as ‘real’ as gravity or quantum physics that very disciplined souls can utilise.

But that’s just me. I don’t like the idea of Force genetics. I didn’t mind the idea of Jedi-ness running in the family in some vague way, but Midichlorians make it sound like you can attain enlightenment if you have the right blood type. That just kills it for me. The idea of a sentient Force that chooses its own saviours and balances itself through certain people doesn’t ring ‘true’ for me. All that stuff Snoke said about ‘awakenings’ and ‘the light rising to meet the dark’ I interpreted as a kind of anthropomorphic ‘cart before the horse’ summation of how certain characters were tapping into the Force after all this time. Again, I don’t like the idea of a ‘living Force’. I see the Force as an energy that changes according to use, not just because it ‘wants’ to.

I think it’s a bit dicey, in story terms, to make the powers easily attainable. In ep 4 the Force was all but forgotten. Han Solo had travelled far and wide and never seen anything to validate the idea. It makes sense in the context of the OT that attaining these powers requires serious discipline/focus and is only done by a dedicated few. Yes, there’s the supposed ‘quick and easy path’, but I don’t think that refers to just getting powers on a whim. I do like the idea of Rey as something of a ‘feral Jedi’ - someone who unknowingly taps into their own potential by virtue of doing it tough - but she has no limits and suffers no consequences whatsoever. Her lifting an entire mountainside with little effort and zero training invalidates Luke’s journey - as does Broom Boy to an extent. Was Luke just a terrible study then? Is levitation a piece of cake after all? Is the galaxy peppered with precocious kids that are Force-choking their parents and levitating their teachers because they don’t want to do their homework or eat their veges? No, it makes more sense that Jedi potential would manifest in subtle ways as it did with the Skywalkers - good reflexes, keen instincts etc. You could assess a kid at that level, turn them down for whatever reason, and be secure in the knowledge that they’re not suddenly going to start lifting mountains and Force-choking anyone who crosses them! It would require training.

But again, that’s just how I see it. Thanks for the awesome reply - it gave me a lot to ponder. Meditate on this I will…

I completely agree.

Despite the Disney SW trying to distance themselves from the Lucas prequels, I guess the idea of a “chosen one” is very appealing, and taps into the Messiah-trope. She’s this humble nobody, but apparently has more potential than Luke and Anakin combined.

If Luke is the son of some famous, powerful Jedi, him stumbling a long the way, and not quite getting it provides a nice contrast.
If Rey is some nobody, who happen to have some connection to the Force, but she struggles like Luke, it insinuates the idea that it’s because she’s a nobody, she doesn’t come from some famous lineage, and, it might imply that it’s because she’s a girl that she has to struggle.

Post
#1257998
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

SilverWook said:

His life before trying to flee with was like an Oliver Twist/Artful Dodger scenario, (street smart, but not cynical yet) only without a kindly father figure like Fagin running things. He trusted his ladyfriend at that point at least.
In any case, it’s Star Wars, not the mean streets of planet Earth.

Or it’s Star Wars, not the streets of mid-19th century London…wait a minute.

I still think SOLO was a fun movie, and it’s in tone with the eventual tone of Star Wars, post-ROTJ.
Just me personally, I wish SOLO’s origin story had a bit more edge to it.

Post
#1257990
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

SilverWook said:

Voss Caltrez said:

SilverWook said:

It really wasn’t an origin story so much as how Han met Chewie and got the Falcon, and we’ve known how he won it since 1980. The later Han Solo novels were much more lengthy and detailed in Han’s history than this movie. This was just a fun adventure like the early Brian Daley novels, which I’ve loved since I was a kid.
Are superheroes ruined for you because you know how they got their powers or decided to fight crime?

If any character’s origin is mysterious, it’s Yoda, and should remain so. And they’d better not de-mystify the Force by explaining that…oh crap…

Superheroes aren’t ruined by origin stories, because usually we know their origin stories from the get go.
There are rare exceptions like Wolverine, and many would argue that his eventual origin ruined the mystique of the character and was disappointing.

As far as the SOLO movie ruining Han…I don’t think it ruins the character, but it doesn’t do the character, as played by Harrison Ford, justice.
In ANH we get the impression that Han is a scoundrel, this shades-of-grey character, who shoots first. The good guys enlist his help, only in return for money. Or course Han has a change of heart at the end, but we’re led to believe he’s led a pretty questionable life up to that point.
In SOLO…

SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.
He’s pretty vanilla. A very safe, acceptable Disney hero. He’s Aladdin.
Normally, I’d say that the character is ruined for me, but SOLO is so different from the character we saw in ANH that it feels more like fan-fiction, than canon.
It’s a fun movie, but again, very safe. I think Han Solo’s real backstory is a lot more crazy.

We’re seeing him at very beginning of his smuggler career. It would have been unrealistic to show young Han fully formed as the character we met in ANH. The Brian Daley books painted a good picture of Han as someone who rarely trusted anyone but his Wookiee pal. One character threw the question Where are the people in your life? at him. He plays at being cynical to avoid getting attached, avoid pain. But he also occasionally does the right thing. He smuggles weapons to a group who have little chance of defeating their oppressors, (outnumbered and inexperienced) but takes the time to show them how to work a blaster properly.
If we get a second movie, I’m sure we would see Han become more like that cynical guy who ended up smuggling drugs for Jabba. 😛

You make a good point that he’s at the beginning of his smuggling career.
But he’s not at the beginning of his criminal career.
He says in the film that he’s been running scams on the streets since he was 10.
I’d imagine that by the time he was 18 he would be a little more hardened.
It’s funny that he has to be taught, as an adult, “not to trust ANYONE.”
How would he have survived that long without having already had that type of attitude.
That’s something juvenile criminals learn early on.

You mention that he’s at the beginning of his smuggling career, so he’s a different Han from the one we see in ANH, right? And yet, not really. Han risks his life at the end of ANH to help the rebels. At the end of SOLO, he risks his life to help the rebels.

Post
#1257935
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

SilverWook said:

It really wasn’t an origin story so much as how Han met Chewie and got the Falcon, and we’ve known how he won it since 1980. The later Han Solo novels were much more lengthy and detailed in Han’s history than this movie. This was just a fun adventure like the early Brian Daley novels, which I’ve loved since I was a kid.
Are superheroes ruined for you because you know how they got their powers or decided to fight crime?

If any character’s origin is mysterious, it’s Yoda, and should remain so. And they’d better not de-mystify the Force by explaining that…oh crap…

Superheroes aren’t ruined by origin stories, because usually we know their origin stories from the get go.
There are rare exceptions like Wolverine, and many would argue that his eventual origin ruined the mystique of the character and was disappointing.

As far as the SOLO movie ruining Han…I don’t think it ruins the character, but it doesn’t do the character, as played by Harrison Ford, justice.
In ANH we get the impression that Han is a scoundrel, this shades-of-grey character, who shoots first. The good guys enlist his help, only in return for money. Or course Han has a change of heart at the end, but we’re led to believe he’s led a pretty questionable life up to that point.
In SOLO…

SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.
He’s pretty vanilla. A very safe, acceptable Disney hero. He’s Aladdin.
Normally, I’d say that the character is ruined for me, but SOLO is so different from the character we saw in ANH that it feels more like fan-fiction, than canon.
It’s a fun movie, but again, very safe. I think Han Solo’s real backstory is a lot more crazy.

Post
#1257806
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

pleasehello said:

fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

I don’t get why some people have such strong feelings against TFA. Yes, it hits almost the exact same plot points as Star Wars(blowing up a third Death Star was especially annoying). But since when has Star Wars been about super intricate and interesting plots?

The heart of Star Wars is in its characters and the drama that comes from their interactions. TFA succeeded marvelously at this; creating drama, emotion and fun new characters courtesy of spectacular performances from previously unknown actors. Yes, the plot is derivative, but it’s also almost irrelevant.

Good point, and I completely agree with you that the success of Star Wars is that it’s character driven.
But can a Star Wars film not aim a little higher? There’s a lot more competition in this genre than there was back in '78 and '80. You gotta step it up.

Post
#1257805
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

fmalover said:

JokerRulez said:

Here’s the HUGE gamble Disney is making:

fmalover said:

Right now, the only thing I’m really looking forward to regarding Star Wars is Rian Johnson’s SW Trilogy, after all Johnson has earned my full trust with TLJ. I wish I could say I’m looking forward to The Mandalorian, but I don’t have Disney+.

Can anyone create a whole new SW experience that is still , … well, Star Wars?

There is no guarantee of success. Will mediocrity be enough? It’s the only way the film franchise can continue long-term so they’ll invest hugely in this while exploiting all other avenues to milk the franchise (TV, theme parks, comics, etc.).

Oh, in my opinion Rian Johnson is the wrong guy to do this next piece of work given the divisive reaction to his only entry. Need a uniter rather than someone always looking to subvert expectations.

JokerRulez

I don’t get why TLJ is so divisive.

TFA was such a huge letdown I had no expectations in regards to the following episode, and in fact I fully expected TLJ to be a remake of TESB in the same way TFA is a remake of the first SW. Once a friend confirmed it wasn’t like that I was genuinely excited, went to see the movie, and once the credits started rolling, left the cinema with a sense of euphoria.

I don’t think Johnson was trying to subvert expectations, he was trying to come up with the best story he could write and direct, which he did brilliantly.

  1. Because JJ Abrams said that TFA “had” to be a repeat of “A New Hope” to get audiences back on board with Star Wars. Once that first film was out the way, they could do their own thing for the next two.
    But…we got a repeat of ESB and a dash of ROTJ.

2)Hyping up Luke Skywalker and him wanting to be found, then ignoring all that and have him be all cranky and act out of character left a bad taste for many fans.

3)Where were the “Knights of Ren”? We get recycle shots of ESB, a widely criticized casino, detour, but nothing really new.

Post
#1257421
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

Ryan-SWI said:

I suppose I’ll throw my two cents in for what it’s worth.

A lot of people echo the sentiment that this current era of Star Wars is no more divisive than the prequel era. I think that’s a misrepresentation of the situation and the only people I see claiming that are those who vehemently defend any and all ST-era content. That’s not a dig at those who do, just to be clear, but I’m yet to see the opposite…

I think that ever since ROTJ, the Star Wars franchise have been running out of steam.
Lucas had this grand epic he wanted to tell, but he felt like he’d only get a crack at it with ONE film. So he smushed this 9-part story into 1 film. Unlikely hero Luke Skywalker ends up saving the galaxy! The end.
Wait, what? This cheesy space movie because a huge box office hit? Great, we’re rich!
We can get even richer by making a sequel!
So they make another film that pretty much ignores the ending of “A New Hope,” and ends with a cliffhanger, purposely so they can squeeze more money out of the audience for the obligatory third sequel, which will (hopefully) have a proper ending. This film is more depressing, everything ends badly.
But that twist! That keeps people talking. And what about “there is another”? Cheap tactics, but they work. It’s a hit.

Wait, how are we going to wrap this up? They don’t know what to do, so they recycle some of the stuff from the first one, Tattooine and the Death Star. What about “the other” Yoda spoke of? How are we going to explain that? Ummm, do another soap opera twist and have Leia be Vader’s kid too. And Leia can be “the other.” Lets just finish this thing up, because Lucas is tired.
Film’s a hit because moviegoers wanted to see a proper ending, and plus, big budget space fantasy is still a novelty to the public.

With the prequels, it made sense to tell the story of Darth Vader when he was a Jedi, and his rise and fall. But Lucas pulled the same cheap tactics, to guarantee audiences would watch three MORE films.

-1st film about Jedi Anakin Skywalker, and instead it stars some dude named Qui-Gon Jinn and his comedic sidekick Jar Jar Binks. Lucas Film gets your money, and they didn’t even deliver what you wanted.
Suckers!

-2nd film promoted as the film where Anakin turns to the dark side.
People think we’ll get to see Anakin hunt down and kill the Jedi.
NOPE! And we STILL don’t get to see Anakin as a Jedi.
Suckers!
But Star Wars as a franchise is shown to be vulnerable, when Spider-man and Lord of the Rings are shown to be the true champions of the summer box office. We see Star Wars is not invincible, it can bleed. It’s not a machine.

-3rd film promoted as darker, and hey, Spielberg directed a scene!
Okay, thinks audiences, yeah the last two sucked. All the stuff that we heard about in the OT about Anakin/Vader didn’t come to pass, but it has to happen in this one. It’s the last film, right?
Three films later we get to FINALLY see Anakin as a Jedi. But that stuff about hunting down and killing the Jedi? Nope! Only an implied massacre at the Jedi pre-school.

By this time, big budget, fantasy epics are the norm, whether it be in video games, or in film. Star Wars is a drop in the bucket in that respect.
For TFA, Disney needs another novelty, and that’s bringing back the original cast, Hamill, Fisher, and Ford.
But the first film doesn’t even do that. Han and Leia are together for like a minute, Han is killed, and we see Luke’s face at the end for 10 seconds.

TLJ is coming out. We’ll get to see Luke in this one though. And misinformation about “The Knights of Ren” showing up and battling Luke and Rey is put out there, just to create more hype. Do we get any of that?
Nope! They’re saving that for the 3rd one. And once again, recycled elements from the OT.

So yeah, it’s no wonder that Star Wars is losing some of its luster.

Post
#1256712
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

Shopping Maul said:

Voss Caltrez said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Voss Caltrez said:

Luke using the dark side to choke out the guards at Jabba’s palace.

Actually, this is one of the tidbits of ROTJ I do still like. It’s morally gray stuff like that the film needed much more of.

But who is Darth Henrietta? The Emperor?

Yeah. With the makeup, cackling, and aerodynamics, ROTS Palpatine brings to mind Henrietta from Evil Dead II.

Supposedly, it was done to make audiences unsure of whether or not Luke would become like his father, or stay on the good side. If that’s the reason, that’s cool.
But still, I thought that once you start down the path of the dark side, forever it will consumes you.
If he’s using the dark side of the Force, he must have been practicing it to some degree. And it’s like, why would he do that? How can you pick and choose when you’re going to use the dark side, and still not become evil?
And I thought the Force was only for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

I never saw Evil Dead II. I wonder if The Emperor would have been better if the actor had gone with the initial advice of doing the same type of voice from ESB?

Here’s what I don’t get - killing Palpatine because he is in the throes of annihilating entire shipfuls of sentient beings with a super-laser is ‘the Dark Side’. Killing Palpatine because he’s zapping your son with Force-lightning is ‘the Good Side’.

Sounds like BS to me…

It’s been awhile since I’ve watched ROTJ, but yeah, even then I remember Luke’s decision real questionable.
He won’t fight his father, okay.
The Emperor?
He won’t fight him either. He even throws his ligth saber to the ground, to show he’s about non-violence.
So…what was his plan? Convince Vader to be good again. Maybe that might work since he’s is father.
But what about the Emperor? How was he going to defeat him? With a well-reasoned argument?
If Luke was all Ghandi-like, where was that vow of non-violence on Jabba’s barge?

Post
#1256609
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

Voss Caltrez said:

Luke using the dark side to choke out the guards at Jabba’s palace.

Actually, this is one of the tidbits of ROTJ I do still like. It’s morally gray stuff like that the film needed much more of.

But who is Darth Henrietta? The Emperor?

Yeah. With the makeup, cackling, and aerodynamics, ROTS Palpatine brings to mind Henrietta from Evil Dead II.

Supposedly, it was done to make audiences unsure of whether or not Luke would become like his father, or stay on the good side. If that’s the reason, that’s cool.
But still, I thought that once you start down the path of the dark side, forever it will consumes you.
If he’s using the dark side of the Force, he must have been practicing it to some degree. And it’s like, why would he do that? How can you pick and choose when you’re going to use the dark side, and still not become evil?
And I thought the Force was only for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

I never saw Evil Dead II. I wonder if The Emperor would have been better if the actor had gone with the initial advice of doing the same type of voice from ESB?

Post
#1256447
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

DuracellEnergizer said:

LordZerome1080 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

LordZerome1080 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I thoroughly hate Darth Göring and Emperor Skeletor, so I won’t mention them.

Tell me how you really feel.

I really, really wanna fuck Daisy Ridley.

Why such hate for my boys Vader and Sidious?

I draw a distinction between Darth Vader (the main villain of SW '77 & TESB) & Darth Göring (the milksop of ROTJ & the PT who gets to go to Jedi Heaven after a lifetime of mass murder just 'cause he loved his son really, really hard).

And I hate Darth Henrietta for being a dimensionless Saturday morning cartoon supervillain.

I agree.
I didn’t mind the ending for ROTJ at the time, but now that I watch the film it’s like, wait, Darth Vader helped destroy an entire planet full of people.
There’s no turning back from that.
I love Return of the Jedi as it’s the first Star Wars film I saw as a kid, but man, is it flawed.

Luke using the dark side to choke out the guards at Jabba’s palace. Luke and Leia being bro and sis. Vader becoming good again, just because he didn’t let the Emperor kill his son. Obi-wan justifying lying by saying, “it’s true…from a certain point of view.” That was all some BS.

Some tweaks could have fixed some of those parts.
Luke simply waving his hand at the guards and they lower their weapons and allow his passge.
Obi-wan just saying Luke wasn’t ready for the truth, and leave it at that.
The funeral pyre for Vader, along with the score, is just enough. No need to have Force ghost Yoda and Obi-wan AND Anakin appear.

But who is Darth Henrietta? The Emperor?

Post
#1256239
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

LordZerome1080 said:

Voss Caltrez said:

No.

The Force Awakens was a hit.
Rogue One was a hit.
The Last Jedi was a hit, but split fandom based on how the story played out. That’s understandable with an old franchise like this and an iconic character returns in a way that not everyone agrees with.

Solo lost money though.
Why?
Maybe one reason is that the public is getting tired of a Star Wars-related movie every year.
But I don’t think because of one spin-off didn’t do well and fandom split on TLJ that Disney killed Star Wars.
If anything, they revived it.
I’m not a big fan of the new trilogy, but they managed to bring some of the magic back to the franchise: characters that you actually like and care about, the funny/comedic moments, and more believable worlds that aren’t just green screens.

Kylo Ren alone is more interesting than any character of the prequels, and probably more interesting than the portrayals of our favorite group in Return of the Jedi.

No just no. Crylo Ruin is never going to be interesting. You need to rewatch ROTJ because the characters are interesting unlike the st where all original trilogy characters get ruined and all the magic gets stamped out.

I rewatched ROTJ, and yeah, they’re not anywhere near as interesting at they were in ANH and ESB.
The dialogue is clunky at times and Hamill and Fisher struggle with their delivery of it.
I understand that Luke is supposed to be a fully trained Jedi at this point, and confident in his abilities, not the same brash, impatient guy we saw in ESB.
But he just seemed like someone else entirely.
Leia gets told that, not only is Luke her brother, but the guy that murdered all her friends and family…is her father too.
“I know. Somehow I’ve always known.”

Kylo’s revelation to Rey about her parents was a much better scene. There’s nothing like that in ROTJ.

Post
#1255971
Topic
When did George Lucas change Star Wars from a Space Opera into a Saga? Is it a Space Opera now?
Time

I didn’t understand what Lucas originally meant by that term.
Like an operatic story in space?
Later on, considering all the twists and turns of the original trilogy, like, “No…I’M your father,” and
“wait a minute, LEIA is my sister??”
Thinking about it some more, I later assumed Lucas meant that Star Wars was supposed to be a continuing soap opera, since the way some of these revelations unfolded felt more at home in day time soap opera, than a saga that was carefully planned out since the beginning.

Post
#1255951
Topic
your thoughts: Did Disney kill star wars because it sounds like they did with the last jedi solo and resistance.
Time

No.

The Force Awakens was a hit.
Rogue One was a hit.
The Last Jedi was a hit, but split fandom based on how the story played out. That’s understandable with an old franchise like this and an iconic character returns in a way that not everyone agrees with.

Solo lost money though.
Why?
Maybe one reason is that the public is getting tired of a Star Wars-related movie every year.
But I don’t think because of one spin-off didn’t do well and fandom split on TLJ that Disney killed Star Wars.
If anything, they revived it.
I’m not a big fan of the new trilogy, but they managed to bring some of the magic back to the franchise: characters that you actually like and care about, the funny/comedic moments, and more believable worlds that aren’t just green screens.

Kylo Ren alone is more interesting than any character of the prequels, and probably more interesting than the portrayals of our favorite group in Return of the Jedi.

Post
#1213909
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Time

MJR80 said:

Gotta love the (almost) inbreeding implications…

On a serious note, yes, it does seem like Lucas was making things up as he went along… He may have felt a burden to conjure another “plot twist” or “surprise” like <span class=“Italics”>The Empire Strikes Back</span> had for RotJ (or at least attempt to make it as good as the plot twist in ESB).

Yes!

I grew up with her being his sister, so it didn’t bother me then.
But after watching the series as an adult, you can tell it wasn’t planned that way. I really like the idea that Leia is NOT Luke’s sister, and although they have a emotional Bond, Leia still falls for Han anyways. A nice twist on the trope that the hero always gets the girl. Something different.
Oh, but he only doesn’t get the girl because she turns out to be his sister…That’s lame. And weird, considering the kiss.
And your telling me Vader didn’t sense any Force connection when he interrogated Leia? Come on.

No. Once I read that the original plan was to have Luke discover he had a sister on the other side of the galaxy, and Return of the Jedi ending with Han dead, Leia resuming some powerful leader position in the newly restored Republic, and Luke walking off into the sunset to go in search of his lost sister…awesome.

Post
#1213907
Topic
Questions about the The Force &amp; the SW universe
Time

I have some questions about the Jedi, the Force and Star Wars in general and was wondering if those on the forum could help me out.

  1. Can Force users sense each other like immortals do in the Highlander series? I’d imagine so, because their Force sensitive, right? That’s how Obi-wan sensed that a pre-Jedi trained Anakin had a connection to the Force.
    But if that’s the case, does that mean that a Force could never hide from another Force user? Like as far as being in a crowd, or laying in wait for a surprise attack?
    In the prequels it’s implied that Force users can just hide their connection to the Force from other Force sensitives, like in the case of Palpatine. Even in-story that seems kind of far fetched (yeah, space wizards…). I mean, the Jedi are in-tuned to all this stuff. I find it hard to believe this Sith Lord was under their nose the whole time, around various Jedi constantly, and he never slipped up once. Not once did a Jedi get near Palpatine and feel some kind of bad vibes within the Force?
    If that’s the case, why didn’t Obi-wan hide his Force “presence” when entering the Death Star?
    Prior to the prequels was their an explanation or details on the parameters of how they could sense each other?

  2. What are the rules for Force abilities? Is it open ended to whatever Disney comes up with? Were there rules and limitations prior to Disney, and/or prior to the Prequels?
    Up until then it was just telekinesis, limited telepathic communication (Luke crying out for Leia and her “hearing” it), and shooting lightning.
    But now they can have in-depth telepathic communication, and even extract secrets from the minds of people. That’s what Kylo was trying to do to Rey first time they met right? Does that mean that Force users can read people’s minds? That sounds like it makes them a little too powerful and knowing.
    I mean, does that mean Jedi or Force users would always know when someone’s lying? If they wanted, they could just scan the persons mind for secrets?

  3. Where do humans come from, and why is the Empire made up only of humans? The Republic was made up of different star systems within the galaxy. So…why all humans? Is there a reason for it?

  4. A “Galactic Empire.” A galaxy is made up of hundreds of billions of stars, all with their own planets. The Republic, and later Empire, was governing and controlling all that? Really? I like the SW universe to feel vast, unlike the small world that the prequels made it to be, what with every thing connected (little Greedo for example). Were there other galaxies they knew of or came into contact with, or does everything in SW, expanded universe and films, limited to being within one galaxy?

  5. If there are all hundreds of billions of star systems within the Republic, what are the planets like? Star Wars is pretty unique, in that every planet is all one thing. Like there’s an ice planet (Hoth), a forest planet (Endor), a water planet (Kamino), a lava planet, a desert planet (Tattooine), and a gas planet with just clouds (Bespin).
    But damn, if you try to expand the universe, you kind of run out of all-one-thing planets. I think SW ended up reusing a desert planet already, twice: Geonosis and Jakku. The salt planet was obviously a heat to redo Hoth.
    Would it be weird and un-Star Wars-like if you had more diverse planets? Like Earth for example?

  6. Are there rules to Droids? Like Asimov’s the Three Laws? Can’t be 'cause they had a whole army of people-killing droids in Phantom Menace. What about prior to that? Was it assumed that all droids were just servants. Do Droids have their own place to chill? Are there planets or societies of free Droids? 3PO has pretty limited movement for a humanoid looking droid. He doesn’t even have a moving mouth. Does this mean that Droids haven’t been around that long?

  7. How does technology work? Time-wise I mean. I’m sure at some point there were no servant droids, as the technology wasn’t there yet. How many generations back before droids could walk and talk and have sentience?

  8. If there’s clone technology, how come we never see it in the original films, or in the new Disney ones? That sounds like some ground breaking stuff? Wouldn’t people want to clone their loved ones if they died? What are the ramifications of this? Why wouldn’t everyone have a clone army? Or make clone servants and slaves? Clone themselves?

  9. Cyborgs. How common is it supposed to be? I never saw one metal-arm-type people in Star Wars. I’m assuming having a cybernetic arm, foot, or leg is pretty common, as well as it being undetectable, like Luke’s hand. Darth Vader aside, how far does that go? Could there be someone with just a human head, and have a total cybernetic body? Do you have to be rich to have it done? Are there sketchy cybernetic doctors out there, like maybe on Tattooine? And does that mean you get some people with malfunctioning limbs, or hands where they have bad skin jobs and there’s discoloration, or the metal is showing through? I have to admit, that feels less Star Wars-like, and more cyber punk.

  10. Are there other religions in Star Wars? The Force is referred to as an ancient superstition or religion. So are there others? Does that mean the majority of the Republic/Empire are atheists? But they have a Hell, because Han says “if not I’ll see you in Hell.” A non-Christian Hell I suppose, but from what belief system then?

If anyone can answer these thanks!

Post
#1212509
Topic
Most Baffling Complaint of a Star Wars Movie
Time

Darth as a title sounds cooler than “Darth” being Vader’s first name.
“Darth, we must talk.” Just sounds kind of silly. Rhymes with Garth.
But, having a bunch of other dark side Force users with “Darth” as a title/name, along with a red light saber, makes Darth Vader less unique.

Grevious’ cough was another thing I disliked, because, like the above, it makes Darth Vader less unique. Here, we also have an asthmatic cyborg villain. Plus, despite all the crazy CGI robot kung fu, this coughing and wheezing video game villain didn’t seem that threatening. The cartoon version was so much better.

Post
#945712
Topic
Worst villain: The Emperor
Time

Tyrphanax said:

Exactly. He’s telling Luke that he’s going to fall to the Dark Side because, as far as the Emperor is concerned, “it is unavoidable”. Nothing can stop it, he has foreseen Luke defeating Vader and taking his father’s place at his side so he’s letting Luke know that it doesn’t make any difference whether he resists, because it is his destiny.

But doesn’t Vader tell Luke in ESB, “Luke, you can destroy the Emperor. He has forseen this. It is your destiny. Join me, and together we can rule the galaxy as father and son.”

In fact, prior to this the Emperor wants Luke killed, but Vader is the one who suggest he can turn Luke into an ally of the Empire.

We already know the Emperor is a master manipulator and that he sees the future. He deliberately let the Rebellion know where the second Death Star was and that he’d be there. He tells Vader that Luke will surrender himself to him to Vader’s disbelief, and yet, lo’ and behold, Luke does just that. He knows that the shuttle Tyderium was a Rebel ruse. He foresees Luke falling and as far as we’re concerned, we see Luke start down that path when he loses control and attacks the Emperor, which Palpatine sees as Luke fulfilling his destiny to join the Dark Side and replace Vader. If anything, that makes him a better villain: he’s spot on about everything so far, and then even Luke seems to fall into his trap.

The aspects you mentioned, like foreseeing that Luke will go to Vader, are good traits of a villain. You think this guy is one step ahead of your every move. But in his attempt to turn Luke, it was incredibly stupid, and that goes beyond simply being overconfident. And not only that, but other factors are at play which make me feel he’s one of the less interesting villains out there. Maybe if we didn’t see his eyes, like in The Phantom Menace when he was talking to the Asian stereotype aliens via hologram, and he had that same gravitas in his voice in that film, then he would come across more mysterious and intimidating. I prefer Frank Langella’s Skeletor from MOTU film over Palpatine. Better dialogue, better delivery, and better look.

Like Density said, the only reason his plan failed was because of his overconfidence and underestimation of the Rebel resolve against the Empire, Luke’s resolve against the Dark Side, and finally (as well as fatally) Vader’s resolve. When Luke defeats Vader, realizes where he is headed if he continues, and throws down his weapon to show that he is truly a Jedi, the Emperor realizes that he needs to up the ante, and so he tortures Luke in an attempt to break him, to turn him to the Dark Side by Force (hur hur). Again, he was overconfident in his ability to do so, in Vader’s allegiance to the Sith and his master, and he underestimated the good inside of Anakin and the love a father has for his son.

That’s how I see it at least.

Like I said, he comes off like a cartoon villain, in the same way that the cheesy villains tell the hero their whole plan before killing them.

Post
#945662
Topic
Worst villain: The Emperor
Time

Density said:

WTF are you talking about? The Emperor is awesome. He’s by far the most fun character in all of Star Wars to imitate and he’s endlessly quotable. Plus he just takes so much joy in being pure evil. I mean look how giddy he gets when he says “Everything is proceeding as I have forseen” and then cackles maniacally. It’s just glorious. Ian McDiarmid is awesome. He elevated ROTJ in every scene he was in and he made the prequels watchable. Just some beautiful scenery chewing all around. The only comparison I can think of is when Al Pacino literally played the Devil in The Devil’s Advocate. Just insane over the top evil, but it’s perfect for the character. He basically is the Devil of the Star Wars universe. Not everybody has to have deep characterization and complex motives in a classic good vs. evil fantasy story like Star Wars. Palpatine wants “unlimited power” and that’s really all we need to know.

I find it fun to imitate him because he’s unintentionally funny. The expressions he makes in ROTS when he’s fighting the Jedi for example. Or when he says “Dyew it.”

Ian McDiarmid is awesome though, I agree. I don’t like his portrayal, but for what he was shooting for, he nailed it. The interview where he’s explaining that Lucas wanted him to imitate the voice in ESB, and instead, he thought the Emperoror’s voice should sound sepulchral makes me appreciate his performance more.

But he’s NOT the Devil of the Star Wars universe, because even the Christian Devil, as we know him, has a past and a motivation which makes him interesting. He was formerly an angel who led a rebellion against God, and justified his loss by saying, “better to reign in Hell, than to serve in Heaven.” Also, the Devil is known to be the father of lies, the ultimate deceiver. The Emperor may have shown flashes of that in ROTS, manipulating Anakin into believing only the Sith could prevent death, and making it look like the Jedi were evil, even though his sincerity seems less than convincing.

However, in ROTJ, he’s completely unconvincing. He’s not the master manipulator, he’s telegraphing his intentions at nearly every point. Luke might have killed his father when he had him at his mercy, but Palpatine ruins that when he starts cackling loudly and saying, “Good…now fulfill your destiny and take your father’s place at my side.” It’s like he’s using reverse psychology to keep Luke on the RIGHT path.

I did like Ep. II/Attack of the Clones, when it seems like Count Dooku actually is not completely good or completely bad. It seemed like for a moment, there was a third faction involved in the war, one who was against the Republic, but also against the Sith. It turned out he was just lying, but even THAT was a better example of the Devil, than what we saw in the ROTJ Emperor. Dooku was trying to appeal to Obi-Wan’s connection to his mentor Qui-Gon, and mixing truth with falsehood.

Post
#945659
Topic
Worst villain: The Emperor
Time

Lord Haseo said:

Yeah but in ROTS he tells Padme that he can overthrow the Chancellor and they can rule the Galaxy together. Molding the Galaxy in their own vision.

Yes, but it’s in context of what Anakain has gone through.

That isn’t an issue. He’s the reigning Dark Lord of The Sith. The Sith want to conquer thus Palpatine wants to as well. There’s no reason to give him a rich backstory that which gives him numerous motives as to why he would want to rule. Darth Sidious is not like Darth Vader or Kylo Ren who are 3 dimensional characters so there’s really no reason to elaborate more beyond the “normal” reasons one would want to rule the Galaxy.

It’s not an issue for you, for me it is. And I’ve already said, you can keep the character vague and mysterious but there have been much more successful executions at doing that. I don’t view The Emperor as seen in ROTJ, and in most of ROTS comes across as mysterious but interesting.