Vladius

Wouldn't that contribute to him feeling underdeveloped?

Any spoilers? :)

I would also suggest, for story reasons, that you try to address some of the things in the Episode III Red Letter Media review. If it's possible, make the actions of the characters make more sense.

It looks great!

Is it just for example purposes, or are you using the Yoda v. Emperor duel?

Harmy said:

Vladius said:

Edit each of the extended Lord of the Rings movies into their respective three hour epic.

If you mean to re-edit the LOTR EEs back into the theatrical versions, then that would actually be a great idea in case of FOTR, because the theatrical version has a badly DVNRed older master for Blu-Ray, so a colour corrected original version of FOTR using the EE Blu-Ray would be something I'd be very interested in actually ;-)

The idea is that there's a lot of edit ideas on here and FE for every kind of movie imaginable that boil down to that pitch: "Editing all of the _________ movies into one 3/4/5 hour epic." LOTR is already 3 hours long for each movie, already has its own extended edition, and some have already edited it into smaller blocks or purist versions.
The only logical thing left is to edit the smaller chunks of extended editions into three hour epics. :D

Edit each of the extended Lord of the Rings movies into their respective three hour epic.

The Corporate Sector Authority was a major power, too.

Practical effects, like the kind Adywan is good at, would go a long way to giving the PT the same feel.

"Even Master Yoda doesn't have a sperm count that high..."

Whatever it is you do with it, count me in for helping out.

Judge said:

Not sure if this has been suggested before, and I don't really want to dig through 234 pages of ideas, so here's mine.

What if we deleted The Phantom Menace altogether and, through reconstitution of deleted scenes (as well as little bits of TPM) make Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith into three films?

It makes sense imo, as TPM is basically completely inconsequential to the saga, but it would probably be pretty hard to execute.

That's kinda what I've been doing, just as a TV miniseries sort of thing. It works really well, because the Episode 1 "resolve the attack on our sovereignty in the senate" and Episode 2 "we need Amidala here" and "create the Clone Army with a vote" things fit together nicely.

Exactly. The battle droid is a subtle change. It's a piece of clutter that makes you go "huh, that's cool," not a change in appearance of an entire main character after their arc is finished.

Does anyone have sources for Ian McDiarmid lines?

I'm making major changes to the order of events and I need him (or someone else from Star Wars) to have a line about killing in order to preserve life, or ending one life and beginning another one.

I like it because it still shows he's vulnerable, but resourceful. It's a sort of flipped version of ESB, where he spends a lot of his time getting taken out by stronger forces, but there's still a scene early on where he destroys an AT-AT by himself. With the rancor it's the same sort of exception that proves the rule, just the other way around.

I'm still all for removing it, but if it stayed I think it would be better to have some conservative Jedi (e.g. the Jedi Council) have problems with it, but not others (maybe Obi Wan, following after Qui Gon,) and it's not really a secret, Anakin just doesn't want to bring it up at sensitive times.

IIRC, it's actually "attachment" which is forbidden, which kind of fits in with Luke being held back from going to cloud city. The idea is to make the Jedi more like monk ascetics. It wasn't executed very well and it would be better to achieve it in other ways, but that was the intention.

That's like shooting an arrow and painting a bullseye around it. Having yellow eyes is an effect, not a cause. If you don't address or don't like the causes then it doesn't make any sense.

It's a visually oriented medium, right, but that doesn't mean you need a cue. Yellow eyes would be redundant because Mark Hamill's expressions say it all.

Alright, so that's your opinion, we can't change your opinion, but how is any of this improved with blatantly obvious Lucas-league yellow sith eyes?

Sepharih said:

Vladius said:

He doesn't reference it explicitly because he doesn't need to. Does he need to spell out that killing the leaders of the Empire would help people fighting the Empire?

Not explicitly, depending on how it's written, but even if that is the thought process that luke has in the scene, it's in spite of what the emperor is saying and not as a result of it......which kind of hurts the emperor's characterization as a master manipulator to me.

Well, if he tried to do it that way in the open, it would make him look weak. A large part of persuading someone is appearing confident and powerful to them. If the Emperor started talking about friendship and compassion and serving the greater good, it would be even more out of character for someone who's pure evil. He understands the complexities of the situation without having to acknowledge them. That's what makes him the manipulator who's in control.
Another problem with him telling Luke to do a little evil to serve the greater good is that it's not really that evil, either way, to kill the Emperor. He would be doing everybody a service, and doing his job as a military commander. It's just a straightforward good action that can be done for the wrong reasons. The point is what happens afterwards - if he does it in anger, then he will turn to the dark side, so he has to hide and steady himself until he can confront them properly for the right reasons.
I still don't see how what he says is contradictory, even if it is different.

He doesn't reference it explicitly because he doesn't need to. Does he need to spell out that killing the leaders of the Empire would help people fighting the Empire?

 

Sepharih said:

He should have played up on Luke's compassion towards his friends and his desire to save them (mirroring anakin's fall more), trying to convince him to give in to temptation....to do just a little evil to do a greater good.

Instead he pretty much barks about how Luke has already fallen and just doesn't realize it yet, to give into his anger towards palpatine because there is no hope left already, and to strike in vengeance and turn to darkness.

At no point in the entire exchange does palpatine ever imply anything except that luke should just give into his hatred and anger of what palpatine has done, and turn evil.  He even chides luke by declaring his friends are his weakness.

 

They, of course are his weakness....but pointing that out along with everything else he says and does is antithetical to what I'm talking about.  He uses the danger they are in to bring out the anger in luke and get luke to unleash his rage at vader and himself, rather than as a way to tempt luke into playing by his rules.....give in a little and do a little evil ultimately towards a greater good.

Why should it mirror Prequel Anakin?

Why can't he be doing both? He's clearly fine with Luke falling in any way possible. He wants Luke to be his apprentice, but he also wants Luke to kill him in anger, and he's happy when Luke attacks Vader. All of these things would lead to the outcome he wants. This isn't a contradiction, it's just using all of his available options.

He says his faith in his friends is his weakness, not his friends themselves. He's referring to their ability to blow up the Death Star ("soon I'll be dead, and you with me") not Luke's desire to save them.

Sepharih said:

 

Yeah, sorry, but I'm not buying that the scene does what i'm talking about "subtly" when Palpatine's dialogue flat out contradicts what I'm talking about.

How?

In other news, I think it's too unclear that Darth Vader disapproves of the Emperor electrocuting his son. He should say "no," maybe once or twice. And just to be sure we know his suit is malfunctioning after it's zapped, there should be sparks coming out of it.

It's also not clear that the stormtroopers on Tatooine are not on an alien planet. We need to rectify this with dinosaurs. Speaking of which, Tatooine isn't strange enough, there needs to be some cartoony antics in the background with robots and jawas or something, maybe when the landspeeder first goes into Mos Eisley?

It's also unclear what Han Solo's motivation for shooting Greedo is, I mean, how is he going to get him all the way to Jabba without Han escaping? Maybe if Greedo shot at him first it would make more sense.

Oh wow, we could go so far with this. I think it's too unclear that Luke is afraid when falling down a giant pit, he should be screaming a little bit. He should also be crying out in terror when the wampa attacks, and there should be little blue flames coming out of his mouth to show that he's scared. Maybe we can rotoscope in some little "tendrils" of the Force to show that he's using the Force to pick up his lightsaber. And the wampa should be more visible, we should see it a lot so that it's more scarier.

muddyknees2000 said:

Monroville said:

Also keep in mind guys that the Sith eyes were already established with Ian McDiarmid's make-up:

 Alot more subtly done than in the prequels

 Yeah, they should be a gradual, permanent thing rather than something temporary whenever you're angry, and they should be sickly, not bright. The villains in Star Wars make things less colorful, not more.

Sepharih said:

Vladius said:

There are, you're not seeing them.
You think that he's turning to the dark side when he attacks Vader, he's not. He's angry at the idea that Vader will try to turn Leia, along with everything else that happened, but that's the thing that makes him actually start attacking. It's well established already that they love each other, romantically or platonically, in all three of the movies. In the same movie, Luke has rescued Leia and showed concern for her well being. There is a scene where he tells her that they're brother and sister.

His "near turn" is within the duel after he starts attacking, when he goes from participating to becoming the aggressor. This is because he is using his anger to help him succeed, which has natural consquences that are also well established. That's why he looks surprised and disturbed with himself after cutting off Vader's hand. He's realizing that he's gone farther than he intended to.

That's fine, but at what point can we suspend our disbelief to think that Luke would actually turn to the darkside here?  If one moment of weakness and anger is truly enough to cause a complete and total fall to darkness without any other motivation for our main character it makes the story feel extremely shallow to me.

1. It's not complete and total, but it's on the same path ("once you start on the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny," it's gradual but requires a start, this is the start)
2. It's not one moment because the entirety of the scene is the "moments" when he's having inner conflict
3. It's also not one moment because it's already shown that he can recklessly act for his emotions in the previous movie when he goes to Cloud City against the wishes of people wiser than he is

Sepharih said:

Vladius said:

 That's the problem, you're oversimplifying a situation that was never simple. It's partially the Emperor/Darth Vader's influence in the Force, y'know, like Yoda and Obi Wan told Luke many times over the course of both ESB and ROTJ, and partially Luke's other motivations, which the Emperor exploits.

 

I'm saying that there should be more established and better developed motivations for Luke's near turn.....and you're saying that it's the emperor's power of persuasion in the force that defies rational.

 

There are, you're not seeing them.
You think that he's turning to the dark side when he attacks Vader, he's not. He's angry at the idea that Vader will try to turn Leia, along with everything else that happened, but that's the thing that makes him actually start attacking. It's well established already that they love each other, romantically or platonically, in all three of the movies. In the same movie, Luke has rescued Leia and showed concern for her well being. There is a scene where he tells her that they're brother and sister.

His "near turn" is within the duel after he starts attacking, when he goes from participating to becoming the aggressor. This is because he is using his anger to help him succeed, which has natural consquences that are also well established. That's why he looks surprised and disturbed with himself after cutting off Vader's hand. He's realizing that he's gone farther than he intended to.