Vladius

I strongly disagree with everything you’re saying but it wouldn’t be right for me to get into it here.

It could be funny to just have him drop a seismic charge in it as he’s flying by. That seems like the whole reason they came up with the scene and they just came up with a convoluted reason for it to happen.

I really enjoyed this. It feels a lot classier to watch. It’s great without a lot of the overtly wacky elements or overwrought appendices stuff and just feels like the bedtime story it’s supposed to be. Some kind of transition of going up to Azog would be nice, as well as some more mourning of Fili and Kili or avenging them by killing Bolg, but I understand that is 100% not your fault and comes down to a lack of footage. If I had my druthers I would redesign all the CG orcs and probably redesign most of the dwarves too.
The big deviation from the book that I see, and I completely understand that you had to do this too, is that Bilbo never says “the eagles are coming” as they fly over.

Other than that it’s perfect. I would feel comfortable watching this with family and friends.

The flashbacks should be presented straight in chronological order and a little bit faster, then episode 4 should be the first episode. Other than getting out of the sarlacc and the tusken stuff, absolutely nothing happens in episodes 1-3. Episode 4 actually gives Boba a motivation, shows a meeting with the crime bosses, and gives an antagonist. The episode seems to understand this about itself because it even introduces the wookiee like he’s a brand new character we’ve never seen before.

I disagree with 1 but agree with 2 and 3. I noticed that as well and those were some of the only things I didn’t like. I also thought that Paul should have said the “fear is the mind-killer” speech like he does in the trailer, but they only have Jessica say it and they make it seem like it’s something that you do out of weakness, and not a representation of training and strength.
I’m not sure where you would put it, maybe when they’re flying in the sandstorm or maybe during the march into the desert with the Fremen at the end.

I would like to see it as well.

IlFanEditore said:

Except Luke wasn’t “changed for the worse”, IMHO.
I really don’t understand what people watched (and then I’ll promise I’ll shut up. And always remember “De gustibus non disputandum est”).

1. Luke’s strenght was never his infallibility. Luke wasn’t Superman. Luke wasn’t a perfect hero. Never. He always made mistakes. While Leia was fighting in the Alliance, he was “playing” on Tatooine and he wanted to become a Rebel just because he wanted adventures. In Empire he makes a huge mistake that brings to him losing a hand and almost dying. In Return he almost falls to the Dark Side as soon as Vader taunts him. That’s why in my opinion TLJ’s Luke is in line with OT. What he did with Ben was a mistake, and the movie itself recognizes it as a mistake. Objection: “But he tried to redeem Vader. Why didn’t he do the same with Ben?” —> Well, of course because in this case he was responsible.
2. Everyone loved The Mandalorian scene because “that’s the real Luke Skywalker”. Excuse me? In Empire, Yoda says that a Jedi uses the Force “for knowledge and defence”. That’s precisely what he does in TLJ, he projects not to kill but to protect the Resistance. THAT his the concretization of Luke’s arc. His scene in The Mandalorian actually builds on TLJ’s Luke. It mirrors Rogue One’s Vader scene, and Luke (unlike Ahsoka) doesn’t have any doubts about training Grogu. Luke is hot headed, ready to do everything to rebuild the Order. What I’m saying is that there’s only ONE Luke. A flawed hero who makes mistakes (in OT, in The Mandalorian, in TLJ) but always manages to learn from those mistakes. Yet almost everyone is like “I loved him in the Mandalorian because he’s a true jedi there (even though he acts almost like a Sith). But I hate TLJ because that’s not Luke (even though he makes a mistakes, learns from it and brings his arc to a conclusion by using the Force to protect others)”.

I’m sorry for this. I’ll delete it if it’s too much, lol.

The point in Return of the Jedi is that he overcame the temptation to the dark side. It’s the end of his arc, in the last movie. The intent wasn’t to have the audience think that confronting the Emperor and Vader was completely meaningless and that Luke would eventually fall to the dark side anyway. That would be dumb.

And, even though he made a lot of mistakes, his most consistent character traits are his care for his friends and his belief that others can be redeemed. Even if he did inevitably fail at something big like with Ben he wouldn’t try to kill Ben in his sleep or give up entirely and abandon everyone to destruction. You CAN tell a story like that even though it’s unsatisfying and depressing, but you have to do a lot more work than just having one moment completely reverse his character and his entire arc and explaining it as “he got really spooked.”

thebluefrog said:

TheAlaskanSandman said:

Id enjoy seeing an R rated Star Wars. Itd be a pain with all the blood simulation but i think id be pretty cool. As a kid i always liked the blood in ANH and wondered why they did away with it in the other movies. Corridor crew did some small quick vids but they were more on the ridiculous side. I later understood that the wounds were being cauterized but still. I miss the bombastic squids used in the 80’s like in Robocop haha

You know, I actually had an idea for an R-rated Star Wars, complete with sex and nudity. It’d be doable with some actors’ other works and deepfaking.

However, we have to be honest, the SW community is extremely immature and conservative about sexual material, so it would be negatively received (in public) and get a lot of spiteful attempts to stop it.

Too bad, there’s enough source material out there to make it work…maybe I should take another crack at it.

You realize that pornography and liberal sexuality is not the same thing as maturity, right? And that you’re basically taking the same stance as an adolescent?

oojason said:

I thought I was on a reddit thread for The Last Jedi for a while there - not in an OT.com thread - supposedly for an TLJ Edit…
 

hey buddy, you missed the large section of posts bashing Rise of Skywalker

ChainsawAsh said:

Gothamknight said:

Kathleen Kennedy’s hyper-feminism.

Oh. You’re one of those. Gross.

And you’re one of THOSE. Even worse.

(Moderation seems really biased around here.)

I was happy with Rey being no one, in the context of Finn also being that way. TFA makes it seem like Rey and Finn both get to learn abilities and use lightsabers fairly quickly, and like they’re going to be equal protagonists.
After that I have to agree with Gothamknight, the Palpatine thing was better than constantly asserting that she has no history and no reason to exist.

Gothamknight said:

The following video absolutely eviscerates ‘Rise of Skywalker’:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0528-TlRODI&t=3617s

Makes me wonder if it’s worth even trying to reedit it.

On the other hand, I was already planning a mashup of TFA and TLJ. Would a mashup of all three be doable? I’m wondering if the map at the beginning of TFA could actually be a map to Exegol: both the First Order and the Resistance could be tracking rumors of a Sith world beyond the Outer Rim, and for obvious reasons trying to be the first to get there.

If that premise can work, then maybe such a mashup is doable. Any other suggestions???

I would love that.

Gimpy said:

I was thinking that it would be an interesting idea to splice the Canto Bight footage/plot into a larger Star killer base narrative. Maybe the exterior shots of the base could be re colored on 1/2 of the matte to make a new matte where we have 1 planet with a diverse biome snow/tropical.

Rather than Star killer merely being just another super weapon, it would act as a hub of the Imperial Remnant’s power and population. Willing participants and loyalists participate in a Fascist regime because it benefits them, or maybe certain galactic inhabitants feel safer. The reason the Republic does not act is because of a potential M.A.D. situation.

Imagine setting this up in the crawl. A stalemate between the Republic and the remnant where the imperials argue “super weapons were bad in the hands of Palpatine, not reasonable people who just want safety that the Republic has not been able to provide with years of galactic rule.”

You could also cut in some of the kajimi footage from episode 9 (of troopers walking in the Snow,) into the Canto Bight footage to make an Imperial presence there clear. Even some of Snoke in his gold bathrobe would make more sense if you could imply that he is ruling a willing bunch of people.

If there was anything that was lacking explanation in these new movies it was an explanation of how the 1st order went from being portrayed as a small radical faction (like Nazis in Argentina) in VII to being the new empire. How did they pay for new ships? How did nobody notice a planet sized super weapon where Illum was? These new films require way too much supplemental material.

If you could frame Canto Bight as being just part of the Starkiller installation, now we have a super weapon that plays host to the supporters of imperial rule. The population knows its a super weapon, but since they are given bread and circuses they don’t care.

Very good idea. I’d like it if superweapons were left out altogether and the whole planet wasn’t blown up either, just the base they’re rescuing Rey from.

Anakin Starkiller said:

snooker said:

who cares about the meme fish man. why do people care about the meme fish man?

Holdo was an actual character with an arc.

I agree with you about Ackbar but this is where I draw the line. Holdo is barely a character and does not have an “arc.”

Anakin Starkiller said:

I think Snoke should just be Palpatine’s latest Sith apprentice. Have Palps call Darth Whatever once and voila.

This is a good idea. If you went with the method of garbling Snoke’s dialogue and giving him subtitles you could write a backstory that Palpatine trained him in secret because he was starting to distrust Vader.

StarkillerAG said:

Vladius said:

StarkillerAG said:

Vladius said:

Not that it’s canon anymore but the Legends continuity clearly established it as a definitive light side power and had Jedi that were dedicated healers, but no one complained about it then.

I didn’t know about that. In that case, that’s dumb too.

she studied the ancient Jedi texts which might have included techniques and things that were lost

I doubt anything could get “lost” in the Jedi archives. They had the largest library of Force knowledge in the galaxy, if Force healing was a valid power they would know about it.

Rey was able to manifest powers like force lightning instinctively because of who she was, so it makes sense that she’d have the other side of the coin.

Force lightning is a dark side power, she has it because of Palpatine. I doubt Palpatine could use any light side powers.

That’s exactly what the librarian says in Episode 2, “if an item doesn’t show up in our records, it doesn’t exist.” I thought it was well understood that that was a manifestation of arrogance on the Jedi’s part. The Jedi archives in the prequels were all digital records and the original Jedi texts in the sequels are the only old fashioned books to ever appear in the series. Something could have been lost; Luke had to “go looking” for the first Jedi temple so the books could have been the same way.

The files on Kamino were lost because Dooku deleted them, not because they were accidentally deleted by some clueless librarian. The Jedi Archives on Coruscant contained hundreds of times more info than the Jedi Texts on Ach-To, there’s no way the Jedi wouldn’t know about Force healing.

Hypothetically Palpatine could if he chose to. That’s what I like about Rey having it, it shows that Palpatine could have used his powers for good but decided to be evil.

It’s impossible to use the dark side for good. Lucas’ depiction of the Force was very binary, there’s no in-between. All these post-modern interpretations of the Force have nothing to do with how it was depicted in the Lucas saga.
But we’re getting off-topic here.

Right, Dooku deleted the files, but there’s nothing confirming that the archives are complete, we only have to take them at their word. Dooku deleting the files in the first place shows that their reasoning is flawed.

There’s nothing postmodern about it. I mean that Palpatine had the potential within himself to use force healing or other compassionate abilities as Rey did, but his path down the dark side essentially cut him off from it. Rey is still conflicted and learning about the Force so she instinctively uses force lightning or healing depending on her emotional state.

How is this off topic?

nightstalkerpoet said:

3 in 1 edit.

Get rid of Rathtars. Han and Chewie immediately take Rey and Finn to Maz.
First Order shows up, Rey captured quickly.
Han moment, minimal effort to blow up the base.
Rey shows up - instead of handing off the light saber, Chewie immediately throws door off - Luke ask where Han is.
Make Luke only doubt himself, not the Jedi.
Give Rey all 3 trainings - show Luke getting back to himself. Imply he’s training her to go back and save them.
No Canto Bight. Finn is Zapped and out of it for part of the middle.
When Rey and Kylo kill Snoke, immediately trigger the transmission from Palpatine.
Kylo leaves Crait to immediately find the way finder. Add an echoing “Come find me” in the back of some Kylo scenes.
Maybe add a Vader Communing part to the Last Jedi portion.
Right after “They’ve got Chewie”, we move to the sinking sands. No Kylo.
No Knights of Ren except the final battle.
3P0 can’t translate, but Babu Frick is able to get the info. No memory wipe.
Cut Zorri if possible.

I like this a lot. How long would it be?

Gothamknight said:

Vladius said:

I appreciate what they did but I think that they and others miss the point of the scene, it’s not supposed to be an elaborate acrobatic fight sequence.

It’s hardly “acrobatic”; nothing at all like the over-the-top stuff we got in the prequels.

“Sc38 Reimagined” shows us precisely what we should expect from (a) two experienced Force-users, the younger almost seeming to toy with the older; and (b) two warriors who used to be friends but had a violent falling-out. In context, this reimagining gives us the fully appropriate levels of both skill and emotional intensity.

They’re doing Kendo, which is what actual samurai fights would have looked like; two hands on the sword, more footwork than leaping, running, or wild swinging.

This sentence isn’t entirely accurate. Some use of Kendo is appropriate, given that to some degree (more so in TESB) Lucas actually referenced Kendo for some of the choreography. But again - quite appropriately - this pattern isn’t consistent, because Vader at this point is significantly more powerful and doesn’t actually need to use all of his training. We see more rage from him - exactly as we should expect, given their history - while from Kenobi we see more in the way of defensive skill. He’s calling on everything he’s got just to survive.

This in fact compliments the original dialogue from Vader: “Now I am the master. . . . Your powers are weak, old man.” Vader’s rage and insults are an appropriate counterpoint to Kenobi’s worn-out skills and desperation.

Moreover, your above-quoted statement appears at odds with the next sentence:

The scene looks completely ridiculous in context, like dropping a cracked out MTV clip into a rerun of a show from the 70s.

This is nonsensical. Juxtaposed with your prior sentence, you seem to imply that you want more “leaping, running, [and] wild swinging.”

Does it entirely fit with the stylings of a '70s science-fantasy film? I’ll grant that it doesn’t quite. “Sc38” may not have entirely worked if we could travel back in time and plop it into Episode IV when there wasn’t any canonical context for viewers back then. But this is more than offset for viewers today who have the rear-view awareness of the context of the full Saga. “Sc38” perfectly fits the story.

I think it would be nice to include some of the shots but not others, especially the over the top force pushes, the punching, the throwing of crates and barrels, and so on.

All of that fits the context of the story (as well as stuff we see elsewhere strewn around the corridors of the Death Star).

At the very least all of the original dialogue and music should be preserved.

I have to think this isn’t intended as a replacement for any of that, and it’s relatively easy to splice it into the original.

It is absolutely just like the prequels. The twirling, the breakneck pace, the people being slammed into walls, the punching, the use of force push, the operatic choral music. I’ll give you one thing, the use of slow motion is not in any Star Wars movie, prequel or not. (I think Rose’s sister in The Last Jedi is the only possible exception.)

As of the original movie, how do you know what an “experienced force user” is supposed to look like? (moreover how do you know what Vader’s training is, how much of it he’s using, or how powerful he is) These are the only two we’ve even seen yet. Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi were both consistent with that and it only changed beginning with Phantom Menace.
Even taking into account prequel knowledge, how do you know that Vader is violently angry at Obi Wan? Maybe his emotions are more complex than that; he’s had 20 years to think about it. Maybe deep down he’s reluctant to engage him and he’s doing it out of duty to the Empire. Vader being cold and distant is much more consistent with his characterization in the movie and the next two movies.

You’re missing the point again. The most important line, which I noticed that sc38 deleted, is “You can’t win, Darth. If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.” Obi Wan isn’t trying to win, he’s trying to delay Vader so that Luke and friends can get to the Falcon. The moment he sees Luke is okay, he lets himself be killed because he knows he’s much more useful as a disembodied voice/force ghost that can give guidance to Luke.

I mean that if you remake that scene in that style, you might as well remake the whole movie because of how incongruous it is.

Buzz Lightyear said:

It’s not about fighting style, it’s about choreography. Obi-Wan vs Maul in Rebels and Vader vs Luke in both ESB and RotJ were very well choreographed fights. The original Obi-Wan vs. Vader fight was very sloppily choreographed because of a mix of factors: Alec Guinness was older and almost certainly didn’t take the concept of lightsaber fights very seriously in general, they were using fragile sticks that they were worried about breaking, and they had a limited budget and tight schedule and obviously didn’t prioritize spending a lot of time on multiple reshoots of the saber fight just to get it looking good.

SC38 Reimagined kind of goes over the top, sure, but it’s undeniably better choreographed than the original. I personally think the trimmed down edit of SC38 Reimagined works best. It focuses on Obi-Wan’s defensive fighting style established in the prequels (which is how he’s able to hold his own against Anakin’s natural raw strength), while demonstrating Vader’s sheer rage and aggression without going overboard.

I also personally find it a bit odd to complain about it not fitting in terms of special effects. The special effects aren’t good enough in ANH for any of it to actually look real, you really have to stretch your imagination no matter what you do. If I can suspend my disbelief for a guy in a rubber mask from a halloween store, then I can suspend my disbelief for a cool fight scene.

By the way, I guess I should mention in this thread too, but I made my own personal edit of ForceGhostRecon’s edit that restores the original opening so it is compatible with Rogue One. You can PM me if you want to check it out.

I just have to disagree. Alec Guinness was one of the only people to take the movie in general seriously. The choreography is fine for a very simple samurai-inspired sword fight. The effects of the original Star Wars are generally really good, and that includes the weird aliens and costuming.

I do understand where you guys are coming from. You’re fans of the prequels and you want the originals to look more like the prequels, and you’re disappointed when they don’t. I agree with you that the original Kenobi vs. Vader duel was not filmed with the intention that it would fit into a “saga” with a much more elaborate duel to compare it to. The idea of a fifth sequel to the movie being released in 2005 was not even a twinkle in anyone’s eye.

StarkillerAG said:

Vladius said:

Not that it’s canon anymore but the Legends continuity clearly established it as a definitive light side power and had Jedi that were dedicated healers, but no one complained about it then.

I didn’t know about that. In that case, that’s dumb too.

she studied the ancient Jedi texts which might have included techniques and things that were lost

I doubt anything could get “lost” in the Jedi archives. They had the largest library of Force knowledge in the galaxy, if Force healing was a valid power they would know about it.

Rey was able to manifest powers like force lightning instinctively because of who she was, so it makes sense that she’d have the other side of the coin.

Force lightning is a dark side power, she has it because of Palpatine. I doubt Palpatine could use any light side powers.

That’s exactly what the librarian says in Episode 2, “if an item doesn’t show up in our records, it doesn’t exist.” I thought it was well understood that that was a manifestation of arrogance on the Jedi’s part. The Jedi archives in the prequels were all digital records and the original Jedi texts in the sequels are the only old fashioned books to ever appear in the series. Something could have been lost; Luke had to “go looking” for the first Jedi temple so the books could have been the same way.

Hypothetically Palpatine could if he chose to. That’s what I like about Rey having it, it shows that Palpatine could have used his powers for good but decided to be evil.

EmperorMouse said:

Vladius said:

I appreciate what they did but I think that they and others miss the point of the scene, it’s not supposed to be an elaborate acrobatic fight sequence. They’re doing Kendo, which is what actual samurai fights would have looked like; two hands on the sword, more footwork than leaping, running, or wild swinging. The scene looks completely ridiculous in context, like dropping a cracked out MTV clip into a rerun of a show from the 70s.
I think it would be nice to include some of the shots but not others, especially the over the top force pushes, the punching, the throwing of crates and barrels, and so on. At the very least all of the original dialogue and music should be preserved.

Respectfully I think you’re missing the point of the scene. Kendo, samurai… these concepts are an inspiration for the original fight when it came out in 1977. But after 40 years of Star Wars, and a very specific fighting style established by nearly every movie after it, this fight just doesn’t work anymore. The dialogue, lack of passion, laughable choreography, it really sticks out like a sore thumb in an otherwise masterpiece of a movie. Sc.38 by fixitinpost doesn’t fit in perfectly, but its years ahead of what we had. You can really feel the anger that Vader would have felt after finally seeing the man that left him to die after so many years. You can feel it in the power of his swings. The way he just keeps pushing forward, always on the offensive is very akin to the way a dark side user would use their emotions in a fight. And I know that they are both supposed to be old men, but so were Yoda, Dooku, and Palpatine and they had no problems executing the craziest saber fights of the entire saga. This is the fight Lucas would have wanted to give the fans. The OT wasn’t perfect, and even if this fight was at the time, it is not anymore.

??? The Jedi have always been inspired by samurai. The style of the two Luke vs. Vader fights in ESB and ROTJ are fairly similar, two hands on the saber, with a little more movement but otherwise in the same style. It’s not until the prequels that things get wild out of control crazy.
As recently as the Rebels show, older Obi Wan was depicted the same way. Darth Maul does all of his flashy moves and Obi Wan cuts him down with one, precise strike.
It’s nice, it’s tasteful, it’s not pandering.

What is your problem with the dialogue? It’s classic and it tells us a lot about the characters.

The idea that force healing is a dark side power is absurd. It’s a selfless act to help someone else. It’s for peace and restoration, not destruction. Are doctors and nurses tainted by the dark side of the force because they try to “stop people from dying” or “save them from death?”
The example of Ben Solo using it to give up his life to restore Rey’s is even more selfless and self-sacrificial, pretty much the ultimate manifestation of the light.

Not that it’s canon anymore but the Legends continuity clearly established it as a definitive light side power and had Jedi that were dedicated healers, but no one complained about it then.

I never had a problem with Rey’s using it for two reasons: she studied the ancient Jedi texts which might have included techniques and things that were lost, and Rey was able to manifest powers like force lightning instinctively because of who she was, so it makes sense that she’d have the other side of the coin.

I really like it but the issue I have is that Palpatine is given a lot more buildup and is much more impressive than Snoke, even if he’s just written off as a clone. This applies to his relationship to Rey too, it’s much stronger and has more dialogue than anything about her being a nobody.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Exactly. All mentors are contractually obliged to perform a noble sacrifice. And they tend to return in some form. Gandalf (ressurrected because God said so), Dumbledore (meets Harry in purgatory), Obi-Wan (Force ghost), etc… Actually, this makes me realize there is no such figure in Avatar, one of my go-to examples of a fantasy epic like the other three, unless you count that one monk Aang liked who died in the Air Nomad genocide.

This is Joseph Campbell territory. It’s an archetype.

Avatar has hundreds because they’re all contained within him.

EddieDean said:

Whatever peoples’ opinions on the films, I think it’s fair to say that TLJ’s approach was “Star Wars can be different than before”, whereas TROS’ was “HEY REMEMBER ALL THAT FAMILIAR STAR WARS YOU LIKE?”

I don’t think that’s fair at all. TLJ moves the Battle of Hoth to the end and brings in the Throne Room from Return of the Jedi, but the plot structure and aesthetic are all the same as ESB. It’s still TIE Fighters, AT ATs, Star Destroyers, bulbous rebel transports, leaving in the middle of training, offers of “join me.”