Yeah it all depends on what happens in episode 6. Right now it’s looking like there won’t even be another Obi Wan/Vader duel like everyone has been saying. There still might be though.
I absolutely agree with you OP and it’s one of the things that makes me irritated to no end about the current state of Star Wars and its fans. It’s tied up in prequel apologism, people not understanding the Force or what balance in the Force means, the concept of “gray Jedi,” the concept of the “light side,” and people thinking the entire series is cyclical and predestined. It’s a fake problem inferred into the movies.
Part of the issue is that modern western people have no cultural connection with Buddhism or eastern philosophy, so the idea of not being obsessed with romantic love is alien and scary to them.
You’re not, not by far. I like Solo too (sans Darth Maul). I did like The Force Awakens a lot when it came out but it was subsequently broken by what came after.
I personally prefer the pre-1999 version of Jedi and the Clone Wars, but I like Revenge of the Sith enough if the prequels have to be included, and even Phantom Menace to some extent. I don’t like Attack of the Clones.
Yeah, not exactly the same story at all. In ANH they rescue Leia because they happen to be there, and they botch it and Leia has to get them out of the mess. I really don’t see a lot of parallels other than Leia got rescued from an imperial facility.
That’s worth noting before we get too far in the weeds on finding comparisons and similarities that are completely unintentional. As Yotsuya points out, they weren’t going to rescue her at all. In fact, they weren’t even going to the Death Star. All of that was happenstance. Just as an unrelated, remote system, farm boy even being part of the story was happenstance (before Lucas had writer’s block a few years later).
That said, there are plenty of things to criticize about this series and I’ve done so myself. However, I don’t see any of that Ring or Rhyming bullshit that some factions swear exists. If anything, this series telling a new story is one of it’s strengths.
As to its conflicting with the 1977 film, I don’t care. As an original fan from 1977, I’ve never let anything conflict with that film. I either ignore attempted connectivity or skip films entirely. Star Wars is a movie from 1977. Obi Wan Kenobi is a TV show from 2022. I have no problem whatsoever separating the two. If anything, I’d struggle to connect the two.
Okay, but it’s not just one thing, even though some of the details are different.
Intentional or not.
Yeah I liked this episode (relatively), but everything significant that happened here should have happened around episodes 2 or 3 and on. Reva’s character motivation and Obi Wan and Anakin/Vader actually having moments together.
I really don’t like that they’re continuing to repeat beats from everything else. It probably is intentional at this point. This episode is of course a repeat of the Battle of Hoth and The Last Jedi also copying the Battle of Hoth.
And Obi Wan again is not showing very much agency in his own show, he just sort of moves along with whatever everybody else is doing and doesn’t talk very much.
Yeah I liked this episode (relatively), but everything significant that happened here should have happened around episodes 2 or 3 and on. Reva’s character motivation and Obi Wan and Anakin/Vader actually having moments together.
I really don’t like that they’re continuing to repeat beats from everything else. It probably is intentional at this point. This episode is of course a repeat of the Battle of Hoth and The Last Jedi also copying the Battle of Hoth.
And Obi Wan again is not showing very much agency in his own show, he just sort of moves along with whatever everybody else is doing and doesn’t talk very much.
I thought this was an interesting take:
every episode mirrors an Episode of the Skywalker saga (I-VI)
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsKenobi/comments/vacere/fan_theory_every_episode_mirrors_an_episode_of/It’s been quite obvious so far; some fans are getting nuts about these “insane parallels” but I just find it to be poor storytelling.
Yeah I noticed it when episode 4 repeated all the same plot conventions and characters as actual episode 4. Instead of being impressed, I was disgusted that they thought that justified what they were doing.
Cut all but the most bare minimum scenes that have Leia (by herself) or Reva in them. The only part with the inquisitors I would really want to keep is Owen’s “like you trained his father” scene. Delete most of episode 4 and have Leia just get on the ship from the tunnel. Have Vader do an honest effort to actually kill Obi Wan and not let him escape, or imply that he is letting him go to try to find others.
Probably going to impossible to fix in the end anyway due to something else cropping up in episodes 5 or 6.
I mean it’s okay to have it be around the Skywalkers because the main characters are supposed to be Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker.
Anakin wasn’t supposed to be a main character of this show though. It’s the latest developments which added him.
I agree with that too. I’m mainly going off of what they SAID the show was going to be like.
I had to get a root canal today and while I was in the chair I kept thinking about how I would do this show lol
Liked the first episode quite a lot (8/10), thought the second was oke (6/10), found the first confrontation between Obi-Wan and Vader to be simultaneously cool, and underwhelming (7/10). However, this fourth episode is just plain bad:
- Episode doesn’t move the story along one bit, instead giving us the second Leia rescue in four episodes. The infiltration of an Imperial base or something similar has been done too many times already.
- There’s hardly any character development.
- The base nobody would be stupid enough to attempt to invade doesn’t have a simple thing as radar to detect incoming ships in Vader’s personal corner of the galaxy of all places.
- Imperial traitor lady (I forgot her name, but like the actress and the character, despite the plot armor she has in this episode) is acting very suspiciously in plain sight, and the only guy noticing it gets killed in the same room a few feet away from other officers with nobody noticing.
- Reva, remains extremely one note and uninteresting as a character, despite the show’s weird fetish with her. The fifth brother is even worse.
- Reva kills the guy from The Path in the previous episode, but thinks a little kid, who was thrust into this situation by Reva herself, can provide brilliant insight into the workings of The Path and the Jedi.
- Leia apparently was already on the radar of the Empire at 10 years old as a Jedi sympathiser, and should have been identified as being strong with the Force after resisting Reva’s mind probe (whos job it is to kill Jedi and kids with Force potential), but still manages to become a Senator and a covert leader of the Rebellion.
- Reva calls old Ben Obi-Wan to Leia’s face, so there can be no doubt she has a strong personal relationship with Obi-Wan Kenobi, despite ANH clearly suggesting she only knows General Kenobi as a former associate of her adopted father.
- Imperial traitor lady conveniently escapes from Reva by literally slapping a Stormtrooper unconscious, a new low for Stormtrooper competence.
- The good guys escape while the base is on high alert with Leia hidden under a coat walking past hundreds of troops and officers without getting noticed. Are you kidding me?
- One of the most important imperial bases can be almost destroyed by cracking one window with a single blaster shot.
- I hoped Vader let Obi-Wan escape on purpose in the last episode, but I guess not, since he was clearly very pissed when Reva let Obi-Wan get away in this episode. This ruins the ending of the last episode, because vader could have easily grabbed Obi-Wan with the Force, or put out the fire as he did moments before. So, now Vader is incompetent as well.
Overall a very disappointing episode (4/10).
Right on every point
Kinda surprised it’s been getting mixed reception.
Probably because if a few of us wanted to see OWK rescuing Leia from an Imperial base we would just rather rewatch ANH than a watered down version undermining it.
An immense galaxy of storytelling shrunk to something with Skywalkers and their repetitive adventures…
I mean it’s okay to have it be around the Skywalkers because the main characters are supposed to be Obi Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker. What doesn’t make sense is including Leia as a main character for every episode and repeating plot concepts 1:1 from the original movie.
Repost from the other thread:
I liked this episode up until the ending, kind of similar to the last episode in that way. It had some good action and sneaking around for a little while. You guys have already said everything: tired of Leia getting rescued, don’t care about new characters (WADE!!) that we’ve never met, the bad guys are unnecessarily dumb, and I reeaaally hate the implication that Vader couldn’t come up with the idea of putting a tracking device on a ship on his own, he had to be taught it from this annoying character. If that’s not what they’re implying then it’s still not good, because it’s just a massive lack of originality and another way they were repeating the same ideas from the original movie.
Yet again all the major problems are a result of Leia and Reva being in the show. All the continuity breaks, all the screentime being wasted, the repetitive dialogue. When it’s all over I really would like to see an analysis of how much time Obi Wan is actually on screen in his own show.
The inquisitors in general are a mistake but that’s a different story.
I liked this episode up until the ending, kind of similar to the last episode in that way. It had some good action and sneaking around for a little while. You guys have already said everything: tired of Leia getting rescued, don’t care about new characters (WADE!!) that we’ve never met, the bad guys are unnecessarily dumb, and I reeaaally hate the implication that Vader couldn’t come up with the idea of putting a tracking device on a ship on his own, he had to be taught it from this annoying character. If that’s not what they’re implying then it’s still not good, because it’s just a massive lack of originality and another way they were repeating the same ideas from the original movie.
Yet again all the major problems are a result of Leia and Reva being in the show. All the continuity breaks, all the screentime being wasted, the repetitive dialogue. When it’s all over I really would like to see an analysis of how much time Obi Wan is actually on screen in his own show.
The inquisitors in general are a mistake but that’s a different story.
But the biggest problem is the ever increasing bond between Obi & Leia. The more they progress with this, the more she is a heartless bitch in ANH. That guy risked everything for her and she had this close bond. But she doesn’t even react when he is trapped and about to die in ANH? Yet the boy who has known him for 5 minutes reacts the opposite way? Wow. that calls her character into question. This should never have been Leia in this story. There is no peril because we know who survives.
This feels like a nitpick of what I think is the best part of the series. The relationship between Obi-wan and Leia is the beating heart of this story and I always love their scenes together. We don’t even really focus on Leia’s reaction to his duelling Vader in ANH, and though I’ll give you that Luke seems more sad about it than she does afterwards, I don’t think it’s anywhere near a good enough reason to justify not doing this story.
Hell, maybe Leia doesn’t remember much from when she was 9. I know I don’t.
No, it’s not a nitpick at all. This whole relationship that’s being portrayed in this series messes with the OT. Especially with Leia ending up being “The Other”. As it stood prior to this series, Ben was watching over Luke. He thought that Luke was the one that was their “only hope” and so did Yoda. But now, all of a sudden, we learn that he had this huge bond with leia. He got to know her and saw just how strong she is. While Luke is just out there playing pod racer. So why didn’t he see that she was the stronger one? That it was Leia that should have been trained ? Or at least trained as well? Obi-Wan is kind of a misogynistic dick now then isn’t he? Only a boy is good enough for them. 😉
Like i said before, this should have been Luke that Ben was out to rescue. He could have been captured by Slave traders or such and then, on the quest to find rescue Luke, Obi-Wan falls on the Empires radar. Then that bond could have been still present in the same way and it would have lead nicely into ANH. Because it’s obvious that Luke knows Ben. He recognises him straight away. “boy am i glad to see you”. Obi-Wan has rescued him again. And the emotional weight of Luke seeing Ben killed is enhanced ( even though it didn’t need to be).
Obi-Wan could have offered to find Luke and Owen reluctantly agrees after some persuasion from Beru. But once Luek is back with his family Owen is angry at Obi-Wan because of how close Vader came to learning he had offspring and painting a target on Luke’s back. He blames Obi-Wan for the Empire getting involved in this rescue. And he banishes Obi-Wan from ever having anything to do with Luke.
I agree about Leia but it couldn’t be Luke either, that would be even worse. Luke clearly doesn’t know much about Obi Wan other than he’s a crazy old hermit that he might have seen occasionally. He has no idea what the Jedi are or what the Force is.
I am still baffled that anyone thinks this show is poorly done. It is a hit with fans in general and the only reason it will never be as popular as The Mandalorian is that it doesn’t have Baby Yoda (possibly the single most popular character in all of Star Wars). But the production quality of all of them are top notch. I can’t see any issue with the set, costumes, acting, anything.
I think fans in general are half and half, some really like it, some hate it, and a lot of people like myself and I think most of this site are split within ourselves. It has some good aspects and bad aspects. Definitely much better than Book of Boba Fett but how much better (or whether they can keep it up) remains to be seen.
Obi-Wan knowing Anakin took the name Vader doesn’t mean he knew that Vader survived past their fight in episode 3 though, right? The fair assumption would be that the guy you left chopped up and on fire did in fact die from those injuries. Isn’t that the surprising information, and not that Anakin changed his name? I haven’t seen it, but that’s the impression I got.
If you had been set to write an Obi show and had gone back and refreshed yourself on the canon - scenes and dialogue made in both PT and OT - would you have written Obi as unaware?
Exactly. This claim is just a bad attempt to slander the creatives behind this show. In episode 2 Obi-wan hears the name “Lord Vader” and visibly reacts to it. What he didn’t know was that Vader was still alive.
Of course, as always - the fans are to blame. Instead of pointing out a blatant result of incompetency, we should all rally around the writers and help them out with our fan theory gymnastics. Force forbid Disney actually do their own job well to begin with.
In this case it does make sense. Obi Wan was specifically leaving him for dead, and Yoda tells him that he’s Darth Vader, so he knows him by that name. If I remember right, they made a big deal out of the moment he finds out he’s alive in the expanded universe as well, I think in Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader (I haven’t read it.) It makes sense to make it a big dramatic part and for what it’s worth I think it’s one of the things they did well in the show, largely because of Ewan McGregor selling it.
The main issue is whether people in general would be aware that Vader exists or not and whether that knowledge would have reached Obi Wan and friends after 10 years. Apparently not, which would imply he doesn’t go out that often or he just doesn’t leave anyone around to tell stories.
This show is… okay, I guess. It has moments of greatness (Vader scene, obviously), but it’s just weirdly bland in so many ways. The production is weirdly amateurish compared to Mandalorian: my theory is Disney got lazy with Obi-Wan because they figure they don’t need to try so hard when the plot is literally just what millions of 10-year old Star Wars fans have been acting out on playgrounds since 1977.
But the writing and plot so far is also kind of just… bland. Like, there’s nothing that really departs from the obvious basic plot synopsis required: Obi Wan is on Tatooine looking after Luke, some stuff happens, he’s nearly caught by the Empire, runs into Vader, survives, etc.
There’s no creative spark. How about something more than the most obvious plot-line required of a post-Clone Wars Obi Wan show? The only place I’ve seen real creativity from Star Wars lately is with Visions. I feel like your average random Star Wars fan could vomit out a more creative plot in a YouTube comments section. Here’s an idea from me, a random guy on the Internet: Obi Wan is laying low on Tatooine, but then something like the plot of Seven Samurai (a Lucas inspiration) happens. Some local warlords/bandits attack a moisture farming community. One of the farmers tries to recruit some “Ronin”, and asks Obi Wan for help. At first he refuses but comes around after realizing the Galaxy needs the Jedi again, blah blah, etc, you get the gist. That could be the whole show - you don’t even need Vader (and a Vader-less show is probably better for the overall consistency of the saga).
If you absolutely HAVE to have Vader because Disney execs insist, then maybe Obi Wan’s involvement in the Seven Samurai escapade alerts some local Imperials. Obi-Wan realizes his cover is in danger and has to temporarily flee Tatooine. But if Vader is involved, he should be way more mysterious. Plant some seeds early on by mentioning rumors of a mysterious “Jedi killer” working for the Emperor - nobody is sure what “it” is: a new Sith apprentice? Some kind of droid/Cyborg? Nobody really knows. When Obi-Wan finally encounters Vader, we can get a big emotional pay-off when he realizes it’s Anakin. (They did this better in Rebels with Ahsoka; in the actual Obi-Wan series Obi Wan is basically just told that Anakin is still alive by another character.)
I’m with you but Seven Samurai is also pretty unoriginal for this kind of thing, it’s been done in every Filoni show so far. Sometimes the western and samurai movie references are so blatant that they’re obnoxious. It came full circle in Visions when one of the episodes was a retelling of Hidden Fortress, when that’s literally already what the original Star Wars was.
I think this would be good, but with Vader finding the rebel base on Hoth I think that was because he sensed Luke was there.
The fractured galaxy thing with imperial terrorists destabilizing it is kind of like the setup in the Hand of Thrawn books, with the New Republic about to turn into civil war because of all the species/ethnic conflicts going on, and the weakened, beaten imperial remnant turning it to their advantage. I feel like the Zahn books are a lot classier in that regard and didn’t portray the imperials as psycho fanatics but as methodical planners like they’ve always been.
Saying that Star Wars is too centered on Tatooine is like asking why books about World War 1 and World War 2 keep talking about Germany.
Is it? It plays a big role in ANH and TPM, but it’s very arguable whether the movies were actually centered around Tatooine - at least TPM - cause Naboo and the space/Death Star settings mogged Tatooine in both of them. None of the other movies were centered around it. In fact, the best prequel (ROTS) and the best original (ESB) had the least to do with it, so maybe it’s time to take a hint.
ESB is not the best original! They’re all tied.
I think it has less to do with the location and more to do with how it was shot. Like the shots of Obi and Vader actually clashing felt almost fan-filmy. Hard to put my finger on it.
I do agree with the character stuff though.
I think it’s the location + the lightsabers. They’re literally just facing off in an Earth quarry. And the way the red and blue light spills illuminate the scene and behave - the sabers actually look like the glowstick props they are.
This.
I don’t mean to come off so negative about the whole show. I do like lots of it and I do think it’s better to have a more pared down story that isn’t overambitious, and is more character focused. Arguably, a lot of people wanted the show to be even more like that and just be an introspective story about Obi Wan on Tatooine with no Vader (not directly anyway,) something more like the Kenobi novel. The only point against doing that would be that they just did Book of Boba Fett which was way too much Tatooine.
That’s my concern, not that it’s less bombastic and more character driven, but that it’s not focusing enough on the main character. It keeps cutting away during parts that I want to see more of, and adding more and more stuff about Leia and the inquisitors.
I’m suprised that there appears to be such momentum behind editing Kenobi, because I’ve found it near flawless so far. Perhaps that’s just a lack of imagination!
I definitely agree with a couple of tweaks mentioned here though - both regarding editing. The Leia capture definitely felt like she got away far too easily and for far too long, so I’m all for a quick sneaky sack on the head. And like others here, seeing Obi-Wan escape from Vader screen right, but then re-emerge in the next shot screen right, did make it look like he realised he forgot his keys and needed to dash back to grab them off the kitchen table.
And with all respect to Hal as ever, I feel like it’s worth revisiting the discussion about the Padmé’s survival canon conflict. The Obi-Wan show might do some work to reconcile Padmé dying in childbirth with Leia’s memories of her - perhaps Leia mentions that she dreams of her “as if she’s still with me” or something. But if that doesn’t happen, and the conflict remains, then I think it’s worth establishing which side of the conflicting information carries the most ‘canonical’ weight, and which must yield. And if that’s the case, then I think we can safely argue that Padmé’s death in childbirth is the more canonical, having been explicitly shown in a movie, and referenced here. Back when the conflict only existed between two films, it made sense to yield to the cultural weight of the original trilogy, but now, no new media is going to imply she survived, and more yet may continue to reference her death. I don’t think it’d be wise for us to be beholden to the idea of her survival, and to be encouraged to remove all new and future references to her death. Rather, I’d propose that the logical option here would be to simply remove the conflicting line from ROTJ, in spite of the cultural weight of the original trilogy. Pluck that rock out of the stream and allow the water to continue to flow in the direction it appears to be naturally going.
The cultural weight of the original trilogy is that none of this would even exist without it! There wouldn’t be any prequels, there wouldn’t be Luke and Leia as siblings, there wouldn’t be a Padme, and there wouldn’t be an Obi Wan Kenobi show if it weren’t for ROTJ. Like with Jenga, taking planks out of the bottom of the tower to put more on top is inherently unstable and leads to collapse.
With that said the usual way this is explained is that Leia is Force sensitive and was connected with her mother while in the womb. “Just flashes and images” is all she saw, and she remembered that her mother was kind and sad, which is a powerful understatement about the time of ROTS. This makes even more sense in the context of that specific conversation, with Luke talking to Leia about her being Force sensitive.
Actually i like that the series has ‘lower production qualities / cinematography’ so far. Why? Take Rogue One as an example. They made the final battle on and over Scarif so ePIC and EmOTiOnAl … and then you 're supposed to watch the original STAR WARS. Actual movie goers are way too spoiled by the ‘grand-and-epic’ Marvel age of movies. They aren’t invested in the actual character drama anymore. The Obi-Wan series goes for a lower epicness and more character drama. And that’s why it is good so far. I know, don’t judge a season until you have seen it.
We will see.
The two aren’t mutually exclusive. You can do a lot with a smaller budget and the original movie is proof of that. The issue isn’t that they’re doing a lot with a low budget, it’s that it looks like they’re doing less than they should with a high budget.
The part where he’s killing people should either have no music or be left alone.
Yeah, I almost feel like Vader telling the troopers to “Stop” might help with the audience head scratching. It easier to digest Vader choosing not to pursue rather than not being able to. You could argue Vader wants him to flee with his allies in hopes of it leading to other surviving Jedi, and those that are helping them hide.
On a more personal level, maybe Vader is just a little disappointed by the encounter. I imagine Obi-Wan was not in the condition he was expecting, beating him was much easier than he thought it would be, so a part of him wants to enjoy the hunt a little more.
Yeah that’s the only thing I can think of that I can actually support. I really hate the cliche that comes up in stories all the time where the villain has been trying to kill the hero, they’re about to kill them, they were already fighting and trying to kill each other, and then the villain has the ability to kill them and they decide “no I want them to suffer” or torture them. It’s just as frustrating as heroes or antiheroes who have no problem killing bad guys deciding to not kill them, just so that they escape in a couple scenes later.
If they think they can torture them for information, or they can follow them somewhere, or they’re personally conflicted about it, or they’re trying to turn them to their cause (comes up a lot in Star Wars), or they need them alive for access to something, or any of a bunch of other reasons, then great. But just suddenly twisting from methodically trying to kill someone for revenge to some weird obsession with torture just makes them look dumb.
Okay…
« Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars. Well not really but a bit. Now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. You also helped me 9 years ago when I was kidnapped by inquisitor weirdos. I regret that I am unable to present my father’s request to you in person, but I have been sent on a battlefield even though the plans could have been beamed from a distance. So Vader totally saw us and now I’m about to have a strange dialogue with him where both of us are going to pretend we were not in the heart of a battle literally 5 minutes ago.
Anyway help me and stop thinking about continuity. And I think you had a droid once btw »
Exactly lol
“I haven’t heard the name Obi Wan in a long time… about 9 years, maybe a little less actually.”