Vladius

Spartacus01 said:

If the Force did not exist, the inhabitants of the Star Wars Galaxy would have experienced not even half of the wars they experienced through Galactic history. The Force is the real problem of the Star Wars Galaxy. The more I look at the Saga, and the more I realize that this is the case. If Kreia had managed to extinguish the Force and make everyone insensitive to the Force, then the Star Wars Galaxy would have been much better for the next millennia. Sure, some of my favorite characters would never have been born, but it would have been worth it

This is straight up wrong. Our own universe doesn’t have the Force and is full of cyclical violence and suffering. This idea comes from another false idea, the one that “balance in the Force” means equal power between “light side” and dark side, and that the Force is “self-correcting” when it’s imbalanced. This makes all the stories boring because they’re meaningless - anything that happens will just get undone.

Kreia was written as a wakeup call to indicate that this was the way that people were starting to interpret Star Wars, and that it was a problem. It wasn’t intended that she was right and that the setting should just continue that way. Her character is a hypocrite, a liar and a master manipulator. Everything she says is suspect.

The other issue is that we only see the big wars because the setting is Star Wars. There aren’t hundreds of movies, shows, video games, comics, etc. about the times when the setting is tranquil and happy with no conflicts. People think Jedi turn to the dark side constantly, so the Jedi rules clearly don’t work or are overly dogmatic, but it’s actually pretty unusual. Just going by the backstory of the Lucas movies, only 20 Jedi masters total including Dooku have left the order in its entire history of thousands of years. And that’s not turned to the dark side, just left. In Kreia’s time they experienced Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Droma, the Mandalorian Wars, then Malak and Revan one right after the other, so to them it would look very cyclical and inevitable even though it wasn’t.

SparkySywer said:

I liked the fight from TFA. The choreography and set(ting?) were really cool, and Kylo Ren beating his gunshot wound was awesome.

I agree with this. TFA is still a good movie, it’s just impossible to get invested in anymore because of what happens afterwards.

I just don’t trust the people making this stuff with those characters. I thought I might like Ahsoka or (recent) Mandalorian more because they’re not movie characters so there’s less to “ruin” but I still think they did them dirty. So I have even less faith that they’ll do something good with Thrawn, Mara Jade, Revan, Plagueis, or whoever. I don’t get it when fans hate the existing stuff coming out and then turn around and say, “Give us KOTOR! Give us Mara Jade!” etc. as though just having those characters technically in something makes it good.

Quality is quality. It’s been said a lot but Andor went with a completely original story with almost all new characters, and receives almost universal praise. Would I trust the people making that show with making a clone wars show? Yes. Would I trust them to make a cool show with Kyle Katarn in it? Yes. Another completely original concept? Yes.

But if you hand the same stuff over to the people that made and approved Book of Boba Fett, Obi Wan show, Mandalorian season 3, then no. Dave Filoni, no.

DZ-330 said:

But it does have those characters… so your argument isn’t really valid. The slower story is a welcome change. Not everything needs to be a rush to finish line.

Put it another way - imagine this show didn’t have the Star Wars name on it or even just that you haven’t seen an episode of any of the animated shows. Imagine you didn’t know who prequel Anakin was or that Hayden Christensen coming back was some major event. Would you still like it? Why?

I don’t mean that the story is taking its time, I mean every single part of the story is filmed and edited in a way where it takes too long. Shot by shot, dialogue by dialogue. It’s not like it’s lingering on big vistas or striking imagery, it’s lingering on characters saying
“We need to do this.”
…
…
…
…
“Yeah.”
or the visual equivalent.

Fan_edit_fan said:

Vladius said:

Fan_edit_fan said:

Vladius said:

SWOTFAN25 said:

So far I love the show. The portrayal of Sabine is EXCELLENT!

Does anyone else get the sense that Ahsoka seems like one of the least interesting aspects of the show so far? Maybe it’s just because I feel like all of the other aspects shine so bright, but to be honest, I think Rosario Dawson’s portrayal seems a little dull compared to how we’ve seen Ahsoka in other series. Maybe that’s on purpose? This version of Ahsoka seems a bit more jaded after everything she’s been through. It seems like she has a lot of growing to do in terms of being a master and as a person. Maybe Sabine will bring back her more lively and youthful optimism? I hope so…

What do you guys think?

It’s the direction. For whatever reason, she’s being told to act like that.

Maybe…or maybe Rosario is doing her thing and Dave isn’t the kind of director to question her takes at this point. 🤷‍♂️. We don’t know for sure, but she is boring in her own show.

It’s certain because every character in the show is acting the same way. Everyone is rightfully singing the praises of Ray Stevenson but even he is clearly getting told not to show a lot of emotion.

Well, I mean it’s not “certain” because there is no quote or direct proof to the matter…merely fan conjecture. We do not know the behind the scenes of this show.

It’s just process of elimination. If someone is a skilled actor (ie. Rosario Dawson and Ray Stevenson) who knows how to show emotion, and they don’t do that, it’s because someone has told them that’s how their character is. The person who tells the actors what to do is the director.

Everything is still agonizingly slow. It feels embarrassing to watch this. People are really going out of their way to like it because it has certain characters in it, but if it didn’t have those characters, everyone would see it for what it is.

Fan_edit_fan said:

Vladius said:

SWOTFAN25 said:

So far I love the show. The portrayal of Sabine is EXCELLENT!

Does anyone else get the sense that Ahsoka seems like one of the least interesting aspects of the show so far? Maybe it’s just because I feel like all of the other aspects shine so bright, but to be honest, I think Rosario Dawson’s portrayal seems a little dull compared to how we’ve seen Ahsoka in other series. Maybe that’s on purpose? This version of Ahsoka seems a bit more jaded after everything she’s been through. It seems like she has a lot of growing to do in terms of being a master and as a person. Maybe Sabine will bring back her more lively and youthful optimism? I hope so…

What do you guys think?

It’s the direction. For whatever reason, she’s being told to act like that.

Maybe…or maybe Rosario is doing her thing and Dave isn’t the kind of director to question her takes at this point. 🤷‍♂️. We don’t know for sure, but she is boring in her own show.

It’s certain because every character in the show is acting the same way. Everyone is rightfully singing the praises of Ray Stevenson but even he is clearly getting told not to show a lot of emotion.

SWOTFAN25 said:

So far I love the show. The portrayal of Sabine is EXCELLENT!

Does anyone else get the sense that Ahsoka seems like one of the least interesting aspects of the show so far? Maybe it’s just because I feel like all of the other aspects shine so bright, but to be honest, I think Rosario Dawson’s portrayal seems a little dull compared to how we’ve seen Ahsoka in other series. Maybe that’s on purpose? This version of Ahsoka seems a bit more jaded after everything she’s been through. It seems like she has a lot of growing to do in terms of being a master and as a person. Maybe Sabine will bring back her more lively and youthful optimism? I hope so…

What do you guys think?

It’s the direction. For whatever reason, she’s being told to act like that.

NeverarGreat said:

daveybjones999 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

vranir said:

I’ve realized that the biggest issue I have with this show is the lack of reason to fear Thrawn. I know him from the books. Some fans know him a bit from Rebels. But in this show we have been given no information or evidence of his clout beyond his rank. Even from Rebels we know that he has with him one Imperial class Star Destroyer - what difference does that make? I’m sure there were plenty after Endor that had to be dealt with.

I’m loving the prospect of seeing a new region of space in Star Wars, and I want to see Thrawn in live action, but the threat just isn’t something I feel.

I agree, I want to see him in action in the remaining episodes, to see him be this feared, impressive tactician and leader, and not simply be told about it. Unless that is what the “wrap-up film” from Filoni is going to be, and this is just laying the groundwork for that? That will will be underwhelming if it does.

Yeah I do agree that’s an issue. It’s the problem with making Ahsoka a direct sequel to Rebels because if you haven’t seen that show Hera and Sabine are completely new, and while the show does an admirable job of trying to introduce them to new viewers it doesn’t quite work. Also because it’s a sequel to Rebels it doesn’t feel the need to show why Thrawn coming back is such a big deal because it assumes you’ve watched Rebels and therefore know why Thrawn is so intimidating. If you haven’t seen Rebels he’s pretty much the main villain of the later half of that show. I haven’t read his original trilogy, but from what I saw of him in Rebels he was a fantastic villain. He doesn’t get defeated due to anything he does wrong, it’s other characters in the Empire who screw up his well-laid plans.

Thrawn in the novels is essentially unstoppable despite working with fairly limited resources, and is only defeated because he is forced to extrapolate from incomplete and inaccurate information.

Thrawn in Rebels has all the resources of the Empire and he and his underlings still manage to lose regularly to a far weaker rebel group. So it’s not really the same character to me.

This. It’s obnoxious that he was appropriated for Rebels and people think of him as a Rebels character now.

What really bothers me overall about the whole setup, including this new episode, is the lack of Luke in general. Not just in a “you ruined my childhood” kind of way or a sequel hate kind of way, but also common sense.
We’re expected to believe that Luke is just sitting on the one planet. Not even building the Jedi temple himself, just waiting for a bunch of ant droids to build it for him. He’s not going out and looking for Jedi or force sensitives. The only one he gets (Grogu) leaves shortly after.
Meanwhile, FULL JEDI Ahsoka, who he knows, as well as FULL JEDI Ezra and now Sabine, (not to mention probably Cal Kestis and a bunch of other new-EU characters,) plus at least two Dark Jedi, are all running around. The situation is still only slightly less egregious as it was during Rebels, with the added wrinkle that at this specific time Luke is supposed to be rounding all these people up, and he has absolutely no interest in the low-hanging fruit he should obviously look into first.

Luke appears to have nothing to do with anything that he should have something to do with!
You know who should be having adventures with Ahsoka and talking with Ahsoka at this point? Luke!
She was trained by Anakin and fought by his and Obi Wan’s side during the Clone Wars! He’s Anakin’s son and helped to redeem his father from the dark side! They have so much to talk about! You could just record hours and hours of their conversations and people would watch it and love it!
At least give them some rivalry or antagonism, something! You can’t use the “oh well Ahsoka doesn’t want to be a Jedi” excuse. She clearly does. She even has an apprentice that she calls a padawan now.

No, the best we can get is a few mumbled lines indicating they’re acquaintances, in the Boba Fett show of all things (massive lol). Then we get to watch Ahsoka do all the adventures that Luke is supposed to be doing. It gets even worse with the ending of episode 4 of this show.

NeverarGreat said:

regularjoe said:

To expand upon the last comment, Thrawn is really a nothing burger ultimately.
Why?
This show is set between the OT and the ST.
Thrawn is clearly not a problem to the galaxy at large in the ST (not even mentioned once).
So basically Thrawn and his crew come back from some nether reaches and are quickly put down in Season 2 or the movie that ties these all together.

It could work if we see the New Republic being more competent than in the ST, then Thrawn shows up and wrecks it to the point that they’re weakened and willing to look the other way instead of engaging other threats like the First Order.

But I’m not holding my breath.

That’s what they’re trying to do. It’s that old thing about “The Clone Wars show fixes the prequels.” They want to repeat that concept. It’s similar to how a lot of deeply misguided fans want Mara Jade introduced so that she can get killed off to “explain” why Luke is unhinged and depressed as of the sequels.

Though I don’t think they’ll make the New Republic more competent like you said. It will be more and more of this obvious incompetence.

“very much like young Kirk’s intro in ST09”

That’s because it’s the same thing. It’s blatantly copying the same scene.

This show is pretty bad. The only reason anyone is positive about it at all is that it’s about Ahsoka and Rebels characters. The lightsaber fights are okay and that’s it.
The direction is awful. At least for the first two episodes, it seemed like there was either a mandate to have a certain episode length, or Filoni thought he could execute a “slow burn” by making everyone take unnecessarily long pauses while talking, or take long walks everywhere.
The actors are all good actors. It’s not their fault. You can literally tell that they’re being told to be “stoic” and quiet and reserved, and avoid emoting.

The worst parts for me are the horribly dumb decisions the characters make:
*New Republic captain not hailing, not talking to the dark jedi on a screen, just letting them aboard with no other checks or basic precautions. What was their plan if he said no, you can’t come in?
*The droids tell Ahsoka they’re going to self destruct in advance, and they self destruct in a way where they blow up the entire temple complex. How do they know they won’t incinerate the map they’re after? If Ahsoka has it and she gets blown up, they lose the map, and if she didn’t get it, the temple collapses and they still lose the map.
*Ahsoka gives the map to Sabine. Not to a New Republic cryptography expert, or I don’t know, Luke Skywalker, or someone with expertise in the Force or in solving puzzles. To her friend that she had a falling out with several years ago, because she’s a graffiti artist. It kind of worked out because it’s basically at the level of a Skyrim puzzle, but anyone could have done it.
*Sabine takes the map to her house, alone, because she “needs space to think.” There isn’t any special equipment there. It’s just working on it on a table at her house versus working on it on a table in Ahsoka’s ship. Guess what? It immediately gets stolen.
*The droids leave no trace, except for one of the droids, so that the heroes can conveniently get information from it.
*Even though she’s a general, Hera also forgets that the New Republic has a military, so they don’t bring any troops or backup or ships to Corellia. Something that might have come in handy when they need to prevent a single ship from escaping.

Then you have the lightsaber stab wound, but everyone knows that’s already a recurring theme in Disney shows.

I’m sure a lot of this could get fixed in fan editing but a lot of it can’t be fixed.

Spartacus01 said:

I have a very radical idea.

In Attack of the Clones, it’s implied that the Sith are behind the creation of the Clone Army, and therefore behind the Clone Wars. Now, since the Sith wanted the war, then it’s obvious that their plan was to conduct the Jedi to the Clone Army. So, the fact that the Jedi discovered the Clone Army was not a coincidence. It was precisely what the Sith wanted, and that’s why they intentionally conducted the Jedi on Kamino, and then on Geonosis. But unfortunately Lucas is not a good writer, and therefore this is not very clear in Attack of the Clones - so much so that a lot of people still think that the discovery of the Clone Army was a coincidence. Therefore, I have thought about an idea that could make it even more clear.

After Obi-Wan ends his conversation with Jango Fett and leaves the room, we don’t have Jango telling Boba: “Pack your things, we are leaving.” Instead, we have him calling Count Dooku and telling him that a Jedi arrived on Kamino, and is suspicious. Then, we have Dooku replying by saying something along the lines of: “Good. Now come here to Geonosis, and make sure the Jedi follows you.”

This way, it’s even more implied that the discovery of both the Clone Army and the Droid Army was not a coincidence, as the Sith wanted the Jedi to discover both armies in order to make the war possible.

I think the issue is more that the Jedi look dumb and think it’s a coincidence within the movie itself, and never follow up on it.

I think it’s a good idea and I agree with your decisions.

1. Clone Wars (2003)
2. Andor
3. The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2
4. Visions
5. The Clone Wars (2008)
6. The Mandalorian season 3
7. The Bad Batch
8. Rebels
9. Ahsoka
10. Obi Wan Kenobi
11. The Book of Boba Fett

I definitely get what you guys are talking about. There’s a whole cottage industry of outrage videos on YouTube. They have clickbait thumbnails and titles and talk constantly about which new thing is “the final nail in the coffin.” It can get annoying seeing the same thing over and over. There don’t have to be 50,000 2-hour The Last Jedi retrospectives. I can figure out the reasons to hate it on my own, thank you very much!
But I wouldn’t put anyone on this site in that category.

Thor Skywalker is pretty even handed and sober about it so I would recommend his channel. He has mostly the same opinions as the other channels (and me) but he tries to keep a level head.

StarkillerAG said:

Vladius said:

StarkillerAG said:

I know I say this too much, but if you’re really that done with Star Wars… why are you still here? It’s pointless to come into these threads every week just to complain about how Star Wars is dead to you, and Disney are a bunch of hacks, and you just don’t care anymore. If you really don’t care, just move on. Find something you actually like.

People still talk about it because it’s fun to talk about stuff

But I can’t imagine it’s fun to talk about something that only causes you pain at this point, and that’s the way a lot of the people I was addressing there seem to react to Star Wars. I’ve said my peace, though.

It causes pain but it’s cathartic to talk about it with other people that know what you’re talking about, and sometimes it’s painful in funny ways. Like the teen punks in Book of Boba Fett, it’s painful to watch and to think of the wasted potential but it’s also hilarious. It’s fun to dissect things like that and talk about how they could be done differently. That’s kind of the whole point of this site in the first place.

JadedSkywalker said:

The thing is Force Awakens and Last Jedi are far from perfect but the third film should have been where they should have stuck the landing. Instead they made a film worse than Return of the Jedi. I like Rey more as the adopted niece and a nobody than a Palpatine. Finn isn’t the only character they failed they also just about erased Rose. I mean i get it its Rey’s story and Finn and Rose are supporting roles, but they got even worse than Han and Leia did in ROTJ.

The third one introduced new characters i very much liked like Zorri Bliss, and Jannah. But in adding more characters it was overstuffed no room for Rose Tico?

most films are worse than Return of the Jedi

StarkillerAG said:

I know I say this too much, but if you’re really that done with Star Wars… why are you still here? It’s pointless to come into these threads every week just to complain about how Star Wars is dead to you, and Disney are a bunch of hacks, and you just don’t care anymore. If you really don’t care, just move on. Find something you actually like.

People still talk about it because it’s fun to talk about stuff

I wish he hadn’t and I wouldn’t want anyone to make any more official stuff either. Maybe a separate reboot EU continuity so that people could tell new stories in the EU without worrying about canon.

I have to make some of them tie:

1. Original Trilogy
2. Revenge of the Sith
3. Solo, Rogue One, The Phantom Menace, The Force Awakens, and Rise of Skywalker
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Last Jedi

If I had to put the shows in there, then

1. Original Trilogy
2. Revenge of the Sith, Tartakovsky Clone Wars, Andor
3. Solo, Rogue One, The Phantom Menace, The Force Awakens, Rise of Skywalker, The Mandalorian seasons 1 and 2
4. The Clone Wars show
5. Attack of the Clones, The Mandalorian season 3
6. Rebels, Book of Boba Fett, Obi Wan Kenobi
7. The Last Jedi

I’m glad I’m not the only one who hates Attack of the Clones for this reason (as well as other reasons.) Pretty much every problem people have with the Jedi or anything in the prequels is related to something established or fumbled in AotC.
The Jedi look absolutely idiotic and don’t do the most basic investigation you would see on a hack police procedural on TV. Nothing makes any sense and there’s no follow up. Okay, the Kaminoans made the clones - who’s paying them? How are they getting the money? How did Sifo Dyas, or whoever it was that ordered the army, have enough money to do it? Were they really working for 10 years without any contact with anyone whatsoever? Who is building all the ships and weapons and armor and combat training? How does none of this have any kind of paper trail?

There is one little exchange between Obi Wan and Mace Windu and Yoda, something like
“Hey do you think there’s a connection between Jango Fett trying to kill Padme and him also being the template of the clone army?”
"No there appears to be no motive 😃 "
“Do not assume anything, Obi Wan.”

And then nothing happens. Apparently Yoda can figure it out but he doesn’t. They’re just stupid, and everything gets plastered over with “the dark side is clouding their vision.” No one needed the Force or premonitions or anything supernatural to figure any of this out! It’s obvious!

The way you guys talk about this stuff is all part of the same pointless cyclical media firestorm that happens every time. If your automatic response to any criticism or any reference to politics is “ugh, those Fox News types, am I right?” you are just the other side of the same coin. You are part of a viral marketing campaign. Some of you are okay with that, I think.

StarkillerAG said:

That was a massive paragraph, but yeah. The only reason why the anti-woke crowd backed John Boyega after TROS is because he was a “model minority”, so to speak. Reactionaries could point to him and say “See, I’m not racist, I support this black guy who agrees with my talking points!” Meanwhile, they could conveniently slip their TFA videos bashing Finn for being a black stormtrooper under the rug, because it doesn’t fit with their new narrative.

And that’s the most important thing to anti-woke Internet personalities: “narrative”. They want some quick, snazzy soundbites to get conservatives riled up about whatever’s popular now, even if they end up blatantly contradicting themselves. They’re the Fox News of YouTube movie criticism, and no one should take them even remotely seriously.

That’s not why. It’s mostly that they just hate Disney and will take anything they can get as far as public criticism or behind-the-scenes drama.