VideInfra78

@Chainsaw - I like your approach, I'll continue to follow your story. But maybe make your own thread and update it periodically like others have done.

Braxietel said:

For a long while I had been planning out a prequel edit of the trilogy in comic form, however I found out about another set of people working on something similar and eventually dropped it.
Although a project such as this would be very time intensive, imagining each film would be rendered as a 100 pages or so 'graphic novel' type thing.
I'm not sure if I'd be able to volunteer to work on such a project for such a time, but I'd be happy to do a mock up of a few pages though to get a sense of it.

What became of that prequel comic that those other people were working on? I've never heard anything about it.

But, yeah, in the free time I have I work on my story that I'm putting together. Some others on here are as well. I think that's got to be the start of the whole thing.

Comic form is probably the best way to go though, I'd have to agree.

Some good points Johannus, but couldn't those scenes be just as powerful if not more with NotPadme or Obi-Wan. I don't think you need to develop a relationship if Owen is never to be seen again except for a few minutes in ANH.

I think the PT should also put the viewer right in the middle of the conflict like SW did as well. And other than a conversation on Tatooine, Anakin doesn't have much to do there. With Luke it was different, he fulfilled the monomyth of an ordinary hero being called to adventure and then accepting his destiny.

But Anakin is not Luke, he chose willingly to enter the adventure, he wanted to get involved. So I don't think he has much to do as far as character development on Tatooine. That scene would be better served developing his relationship to a real PT character IMO.

Thoughts?

I don't know why, but I just hate the idea of stormtroopers being clones. Although, I hate the idea of Jedi willingly leading clones even more, that's beside the point! =)

A few things I don't like about it, I guess is that in SW they have different voices for starters, they're also different heights. Also when Luke and Han are in disguise, no one notices them as any different from the others even though they are not even close to the same height. I don't think they were ever supposed to be clones, honestly.

But apart from that what I really don't like is that I don't think the clone technology can be around in SW. It just wouldn't make sense at all in the OT. If the Emperor wants someone to replace Vader like he did Luke, why doesn't he just clone him? Or why doesn't he just clone 100 Vaders? It really doesn't make sense in the PT as it is now either to be honest. Why clone Jango? Should have just cloned a million Darth Maul's -- game over.

Another note, is that I just think that the PT should stand on their own. A read a post the other day about how the SW world seems to be just too small because everyone is related to everyone and everything. I'd just like to stay away from that whole thing.

Yeah, he does. Per IMDB...

Obi-Wan: He's more machine now than man; twisted and evil.
Luke: I can't do it, Ben.
Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.
Luke: I can't kill my own father.
Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.
Luke: Yoda spoke of another.
Obi-Wan: The other he spoke of is your twin sister.
Luke: But I *have* no sister.
Obi-Wan: Hmm. To protect you both from the Emperor, you were hidden from your father when you were born. The Emperor knew, as I did, if Anakin were to have any offspring, they would be a threat to him. That is the reason why your sister remained safely anonymous.
Luke: Leia! Leia is my sister.
Obi-Wan: Your insight serves you well. Bury your feelings deep down, Luke. They do you credit, but they could be made to serve the Emperor.

Just wondering, have you seen the cut scene with Biggs?

After making lots of changes to what I had previously decided to do...

I've been thinking lately, should the clones be the Mandalorians? Part of the reason Boba Fett became such a popular character is that he had no back story, he was mysterious. Maybe making a new race would be a better idea. Lucas once said his idea for Boba Fett came from The Man Without a Name, which obviously he later scrapped. But I kind of like that idea, I'm thinking that they can just be left out of the prequels, they only bacame important because of the EU.

So, I'm also playing around with re-writing the prequels in my head or at least having a story that is well-developed and feels like Star Wars to me. I have a ton of notes and have written down a lot of story concepts, but am still very much in the creative stage. I'd like to ask you other guys out there that are also re-writing a question I've been pondering over the last few days.

Do you mention the Academy in the prequels? How does it play into your story if you do? I've always wondered how it fit with the Empire. It doesn't seem to be affiliated with the Empire in ANH, but the Empire has the ability to "draft" pilots from it as Biggs says. I can't see it being affiliated with the Empire because Biggs and Luke are so against the Empire, it doesn't make sense for them to volunteer for it if it were. Thoughts?

In my version (and this may be controversial) the clones don't form an army at all. The Clone referred to in the name "The Clone Wars" is just one person - the leader of the antagonistic army. It is discovered in Episode II that he is a genetic reproduction of an extinct race of warriors.

I've decided to do this for a number of reasons. Firstly, the idea of the Galactic Republic - i.e, the good guys - using an army of mindless soldiers bred only to fight and die seemed a little morally warped to me. The Kaminoans even mention them being bred for perfect obedience.

This just doesn't stike me as something that the moral old Obi-Wan or the spiritual Yoda would have anything to do with. Yoda and Obi-Wan seem to me to be the type to emphasise the importance of the liberty of all sentient beings, and a clone army runs entirely contrary to such concepts.

So, what would later be dubbed "The Clone Wars" are already in full swing by the time Episode I opens - it's just not yet being called "The Clone Wars". Rather like the Galactic Civil War of the original trilogy, the Clone Wars would be the war of this Star Wars trilogy.

Interesting. I agree with you about the good guys having clones, I was surprised that the moral implications of slave soldiers wasn't even addressed. I thought it a bit odd that the Jedi were totally on board for that one. What I've done is have the clones as the "bad guys" as well. But it's a clone army, not just one man. I think it was always intended to be that way, wars are named after the enemy if they only mention one side, logical, otherwise you'd just have to number them all -- the Barbary Wars would be like American War V. Or like calling the French and Indian War, the British and American War, just stupid.

Suggestions would be appreciated here.

Since you asked for suggestions, what I've done is just have Anakin allude to it. Anakin and Owen were refugees from a planet that the clones attacked in my story and they ended up fleeing to Tatooine. Owen chose to stay there and make a new life, but Anakin chose to get involved although Owen tried to convince him not to, believing they should just cut their losses and that Tatooine is far enough removed from the conflict and that they wouldn't have to worry about any more trouble if they settled out in the middle of nowhere. (Of course Owen ends up being totally wrong.) I have it happen in the past from where I start my story. You don't need to have it on screen, you can just have Anakin talk about it to another character like I did. I don't think it's worth a scene unless Owen is a major character in your story, just a suggestion. =)

Isn't mentioned that they are twins in the OT though? I remember Obi-Wan saying twin sister.

ChainsawAsh said:

WheresBlackhawk said:

Remember: the Jedi ONLY use the force for knowledge and defense.  During the Clone Wars they would help with strategy, but I don't think they would lead assaults.

This is why I feel a distinction must be made between Jedi Masters (like Yoda) - "knowledge and defense" - and Jedi Knights (Obi-Wan), who actually do fight, but don't use the Force itself to harm others (as Sith do).

Basically, Jedi Masters don't fight at all, and don't have lightsabers, while Jedi Knights use lightsabers for fighting, but still don't use the Force itself for attack purposes.

Agree with you too, sir. =) I don't think that Palpatine should have a lightsaber either, it really diminishes his character IMO. When you attain that level I think you're above the physicality of conflict. Seeing the lightsaber in Yoda and Palpatine's hands just didn't seem like it was in their character to me.

WheresBlackhawk said:

It all depends on how you develop the Sith idea.

When I was working on my NPT, the Sith were a proactive offshoot of the Jedi, who wore dark cloaks and masks to hide their identities from their brothers.

If you want the whole "force religion" to be concidered ancient by the OT, you can use the NPT to discredit the Jedi.  Remember: the Jedi ONLY use the force for knowledge and defense.  During the Clone Wars they would help with strategy, but I don't think they would lead assaults.  This could lead to the general populace feeling the Jedi might be disloyal.  They shouldn't be creeps like in the PT, but the other characters and the audience may see their traditions, beliefs and actions as ineffectual considering the darker times.

In my NPT EPI, Anakin inadvertantly inspires the creation of the Sith Order.  This was revealed in my EPII, which was a mystery of who these dark clad warriors were.  By EPIII, Palpatine is made Emperor and tells the Jedi that their assistance, lacking as it is, is no longer required.  The Sith are greeted in the Senate chamber with cheers because they are willing to do what is necessary to end the Clone Wars.

My goal was to have the audience agree with the people of the republic and the sith up to EPIII where they would feel... oops, this has gone too far.

In my world you hit the nail on the head. With what I'm working on, these are the issues that I'm concerned with when it comes to the Republic part of the story. The Republic is really debating whether they should enter the war or not. Is it the right choice?

I don't have the Emperor as a Sith, but just a dark sorcerer who will later take control of the DLOS and the Sith to do his dirty work behind the scenes. I think the relationship between Jedi and Sith should really be a little more gray than black and white. That it shouldn't take too much of an imagination to see where the Sith are coming from, or at least how they could consider themselves not completely evil but doing something that is necessary, even if they have to "cut some corners". That depending on your point of view, the better way might be the Sith way because it seems stronger and more resolute. I think this is how societies or people turn to evil. They choose what they think is the lesser of two evils, it just doesn't end up being that way in the end. I think that's more of a plausible way that Anakin would turn. He sees the Jedi as weak, not willing to take enough action, and the toils of war have also gotten to him. He is tempted by the power of the Sith to resolve the conflict, but then it's just a slippery slope and by the end he embraces evil. I think by the end of the PT, he should really be straight up evil like he was in ANH. I don't have him starting the Sith Order, but I have him taking it over. Although, I think I have the Jedi vs. Sith thing more in the background than your version. I have that as more of an older conflict, with the Force already an "ancient religion". Ancient just doesn't equal 20 years to me.

My goal as far as the arc of the Republic turned Empire is for the audience to also think that the galaxy and that Anakin are making the right choices, and by the end to say, oops, I guess I would have went down that path too with the information I was given. Or at least the majority to feel that way.

xhonzi said:

If the Dark Jedi/Sith are the bad guys of the Clone Wars/PT, then why does no one apparently care that Vader and Palpatine are two extremely prominent/well known leaders/executors of the Gov't.

You might make a case that very few people in the OT know that Emperor Palpatine is a (Dark) force user, but Vader?

Does anyone else here read Marvel Comics?  Mild Spoilers for anyone who does not:

The Skrull Secret Invasion ends when "apparently on the mend, but still a rather bad guy" Normon Osborn gets a kill-shot on the right Skrull and sends them packing.  He's lauded as the hero that did what all of the Marvel superheroes (Ironman, S.H.I.E.L.D., the X-Men, etc.) couldn't, and he's given the keys to the kingdom for a while.  He abuses them from day one, and controls his PR very well... but eventually it all catches up with him.

Back to the PT.  What if the Dark Jedi/Sith are the conquerors of the Clone Wars?  What if they drive out the enemy horde, and then the Republic is willing to try things their way for a span?

That's a good question. Maybe once the Emperor is in power he can pretty much do what he wants, including having Vader do whatever. With the Emperor I think his disfigurement was Lucas's out on why the galaxy would follow such an evil looking dude. I thought that scene was retarded though. IMO, the politics of the galaxy seem totally different to me from PT to OT, although most people I think thought it was a good transition.

You raise good questions though, if you recall in SW, the Empire was really worried what would happen with the Senate until the Emperor did away with it, Vader also was very worried about how the Tantive IV thing would look to the rest of the galaxy, staging the whole distress signal thing. BTW, sorry if this was incoherent, very tired.

ChainsawAsh said:

doubleofive said:

I never liked that Obi-wan's outfit in ANH became the Official Jedi Uniform even though Owen wears the same thing. Have I said that already?

I agree, but I also don't think there should be an "official Jedi uniform."  The only uniform any Jedi should wear would be whatever uniform the Knights (yes, I'm making a distinction between Knights and Masters) wear while fighting in the Clone Wars.

Totally agree! =)

TheoOdo said:

I'd be more than happy to!

Looking forward to reading it!

To be honest, it might be awhile. It's my first venture into writing anything like a screenplay and I've started over a million times because I always have new ideas and change things.

I'm really still in the creative process, to where I'm trying to decide what the characters motivations will be, their personalities, etc. As far as the arc of the galaxy, I know what I'm doing, but how everyone fits within that, I'm still working all that out. Plus it's three movies, that is just an insane amount of material when you think about it.

How do the Clone Wars play out in your version?

No problem, was my pleasure. I know how hard it is writing this story with so many constraints, I'm also trying to do a treatment of my own. I'm sure you'll be able to return the favor when I ask for your critique.

-I'd like to see you shy away from names like General Bad-guy and Darth Evil-doer like we got in the prequels.

-Although I like what you've done a lot more than the prequels, it does seem to mimic TPM a bit with Naboo being replaced by Alderaan. Anakin and Obi-Wan instead of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan navigating through nature after a misguided landing and stumbling upon beasts on their way to the city to find a queen/princess. Although, to be honest, I'm not that familiar with the TPM. Maybe I'm wrong about this.

-What happened to the Mandalorians? They defeated the Jedi and then...? Went back home?

A good read, interested to see where the clones come in.

I like that you've gone a different route with the clones instead of rehashing stormtroopers/Boba like GL did. I would like to see something totally new in the PT with respect to the clones.

TheoOdo said:

I'd like to present another idea here for some scrutiny, if that's okay. This is an idea for the basic background of the prequels and for the antagonistic army of the prequels:

Many years have passed since the Mandalorian War brought chaos to the Galactic Republic. Surviving only barely thanks to the efforts of the Jedi Knights, the Galactic Republic has now entered a dark period in its history.

Insisting that the Republic is ill-suited to handle these conflicts, a separatist movement has emerged united under a common philosophy of militarism and authoritarianism. Led by former Republic General, Wilhuff Tarkin (an ingenious tactician and military strategist), the Republic was at first forced to ignore the ever widening scope of the newly formed "Galactic Federation".

The Republic finally entered into conflict with the Galactic Federation when, under the pretense of "offering military protection to unprotected planets", the Federation invaded and occupied several defenceless worlds - including Alderaan - with an army of Clones.

The prequel series concludes with what had been the scheme of the Emperor all along - the merging of the Republic with the occupied Federation worlds, to form the Galactic Empire. The source of the Madalorian conflict is "identified" as having been the work of the Jedi, and they are outlawed. The re-unification of the Republic and the Federation is hailed as the way toward stability in the galaxy, with Palpatine publicly welcoming Tarkin back into the fold and offering many of the former Federation leaders positions in the new order.

Visually, the Federation army would have a lot in common with the Galactic Empire of the original trilogy. In a way, it is the Empire's ideas that are being fought from day one, until gradually the Republic comes to share those ideas and, once the Jedi have been scape-goated, transforms into the Empire.

Agree, but I think the Clones should be the bad guys. I'm sure from the beginning it was supposed to be like that. Wars are named after the enemy, not after yourself. I don't know if we need a separate governmental entity, I think it can be kept simple. But a separatist party or something isn't a bad idea I guess. If you go with a Federation army and government, you're then dealing with a 3 way war since you mentioned the Mandalorians. I think it could get pretty complicated, and would require a lot of explaining and it may bog down the story. I have a few ideas about this, let me know if you're interested.

TheoOdo said:

I have a lot of ideas for an alternate prequel series. I think I've posted them elsewhere before, but I'll try and recap here if anyone's interested in hearing them (they're in no particular order, I'll splash 'em down as they come to mind):

1. The alternate prequel series takes place during the "dark times" mentioned by Obi-Wan in Star Wars. It isn't possible to actually show us the true glory days of the Republic because, and I think I went into this more in another post, that kind of perfect society will only ever be a dream - we can't ever show it on film. (As opposed to the Dark Times taking place between RotS and ANH)

2. There is a single antagonistic Sith figure just as with the original trilogy. In terms of design, I would say something like Darth Maul - he's iconic in the same way that Vader is iconic, he's a very obvious representation of evil. This antagonistic figure would initially be the golden boy of the unknown Sith but, after having been defeated by Anakin Skywalker, falls from grace and desperately hopes to regain the favor of his former master - his fall from power is Vader's rise to power. As Anakin turns to the dark side, this Sith becomes weaker before finally he's completely pitiful yet Anakin murders him just the same. "Battle not with a monster lest ye become a monster", and all that. (As opposed to multiple Sith)

3. Anakin Skywalker is essentially a good person, but the toils of war begin to wear heavily upon him. Obi-Wan wishes for him to be disciplined and patient, even under the awful circumstances of the Clone Wars. Seeing suffering all around him, Anakin gradually begins to reject this view. He wants order and he wants it now, before more suffer. He takes the easy way out, the way that entails less suffering for others but (more importantly) also less suffering for him - he chooses the dark side. (As opposed to saving his love interest)

4. The friendship between Obi-Wan and Anakin could work on the basis of Anakin being worldly wise yet Obi-Wan being spiritually wise. Initially, Obi-Wan would not understand the cut-throat world of Tatooine, but it's Anakin who shows him the ropes. In the same way, Anakin is completely out of his element in the stoic world of the Jedi, but Obi-Wan shows him how to be in that world too. It would be a friendship based on helping each other, with the line between master and teacher very blurred. (As opposed to the clearly struggling relationship from AotC and the lack of a relationship in PM)

5. Anakin would surrender his light-saber to Obi-Wan before his final turn to the dark side. The pain of the war would come to be too much for him and he would resign from the Jedi. Regardless of his resignation, he cannot ignore the continuing blood-shed and would long for "an end to this destructive conflict" and for "order" in the galaxy. (As opposed to Obi-Wan taking his saber from him after he is defeated on Mustafar)

These are just some themes, ideas, characters and situations I think would work in an alternate prequel series. I think there's glimmers of some of these things in the prequel series, but they're mostly unfulfilled and lost in the general confusion of those movies.

I had a much more elaborate plan worked out before I deleted it, swearing to myself that I wouldn't waste any more time thinking about what might have been. But if we're talking about animating an alternate series, I'd be more than happy to submit some ideas and maybe even a draft.

 

Oh and here's an important thing we should work out, who are our heroes and what are their personalities?

Anakin: Idealistic yet worldy-wise, he's a down to earth kind of guy who just wants to do good in the universe. He's seen the tough side of life and wants to do his part to make things better - one way he sees of doing this is fighting against the [whoever the antagonistic army is in this alternate series], which is why he joins Obi-Wan on his "fool idealistic crusade".

Obi-Wan: Like Anakin, Obi-Wan also wants to do good in the universe. Unlike Anakin, he sees this conflict in spiritual rather than practical terms (something that can become a point of light-hearted and also serious conflict between them). In the first episode, he's a naive true-believer. By the time we near the end of the series, he's a man who truly understands war.

Bail Organa: Something of a stuck-up royal, he is at first skeptical of the Jedi. Obi-Wan's apparently "head in the clouds" attitude frustrates him - especially considering he comes to rely on him for defence in dangerous situations. As the series progresses, however, this skepticism begins to slip and he comes to appreciate both Anakin and Obi-Wan.

Yoda: All we know that he must do in this series is train Obi-Wan and refuse to train Anakin - though he could probably be a major character, perhaps even the alien in the way Chewbacca is the alien in the OT.

C-3PO & R2D2: Obi-Wan didn't seem to remember ever owning a droid, so that's out of the question. Though 3PO does say "no more adventures", why not let us see these "adventures"?

The Love Interest™: I got nothin'.

The Badguy: See #2 for some ideas.

Lot's of good ideas that I agree with and how I envision it going down.

1. I think you're right, we need to be thrown into the action, just like in ANH. I think the Emperor's influence needs to have been something going on for a long time as well. It doesn't make sense that he waited til he was 70 to try and take over the galaxy. It also makes ROTJ more rewarding.

2. Agree.

3. Agree.

4. I don't think we really need to see any kind of transformation with Obi-Wan, but I think Anakin should definitely start off as a crusader and by the end the toils of war have made him pessimistic as you said. He sees the world in a totally different way, and Obi is unable to help him.

5. Yup.

xhonzi,

How do you handle Palpatine in your story? Doesn't it seem kind of illogical that he would wait 60 years to make a power grab? What was he doing before then? What are his origins?

Lately, I've been re-thinking a lot of what I thought should have happened with Palps as well as how the clones should have been, and cloning in Star Wars in general. I think it needed to be the focus of the story and not something that was introduced at the end of the second movie. How do you see it?

xhonzi said:

Hey, what happened to kittu's post?  I haven't seen them just go *poof* like that before.

Have you sketched anything out or thought about how you would do the first film?

Yeah, I have some stuff.  I was going to post a few more pages on "setting" and "characters" before getting on with the story...  but I sort of got off track.

Do you see the Republic as corrupt in the traditional sense?  I see it more as "hamstrung" in the sense that it's so weighed down by bureaucracy that they can't really make a lot of good decisions.  Sure, some very corrupt individuals in there, but it's not like the whole republic is entirely crap.  It might be a bad government, but it's not as bad as The Empire.  It something you wish you could go back to when The Empire takes over.

Can't wait to see it.

No, it's corrupt. A few American administrations are my inspiration for the Republic. Yeah, it's not Nazi Germany (The Empire), but at the top level it is corrupt nonetheless.

I think we also agree that the story should begin in medias res. I think the story should open a Clone War or two after the first one. Basically with the Mandalorians attacking from the opening scenes. I would however try not to present the Mandalorians in a totally black-and-white evil sense. I think a lot of "normal" people would do whatever they could to keep their race alive.

The Sith would be evil, yeah, but even they would be somewhat misguided or maybe just their philosophy would be "different". I'd really like to go back to the religion of the Force. The Sith are just the other side of the coin. For example, Suffering. Suffering can be seen as beneficial and the Taoism Way of Suffering and the Four Noble Truths is an example of how I'd like to present the Dark-Side. They believe in using things like suffering and see them as necessary and beneficial. The Sith would believe in things like "survival of the fittest", compassion being weakness, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, etc.

1. The Nature of Suffering (Dukkha):
      "This is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering."[8][9]

Really only Palpatine would probably be absolutely evil with no shades of gray or reason for being so.

I kind of have an inspiration for most of the characters, relationships, or things happening in the galaxy. Just have to work things out. Finding the time and someone to bounce ideas off who is interested and has the same kind of vision is the hard part though.

Post Deleted.

xhonzi,

I like a lot of your ideas and you put a lot of thought into them. While I don't have a lot of time to post right now, just wanted to express that I appreciate you keeping this section of the forum alive.

skye1083 said:

Why can't the clones have souls? Couldn't you use it as a basis for the moral conflict a young jedi might face in deciding what is right? I thought part of the problem with the PT was that you had these huge battles of "fake" beings fighting with no real emotional attachment to any of them.

Perhaps this is borrowing too much from EU (but my knowledge of that is fairly limited in that area...), but I was thinking that the problem with clones could be that they are telepathic to a limited degree - say planet wide communication with each other but not galaxy. Lets say they're also stupider than the average sentient which makes them easier to control.

Now, Palpatine could introduce his own modified clones into the population, ones that were smarter who could influence the others to do whatever - over throw the local government, attack ships, etc. And these 'infected' clones would travel to planets, contaminate the local clones, and move on causing chaos along the way.

From the outside, this could look like an independent movement. The clones want their freedom and will do what it takes to get it. The Republic brass wants it stamped out immediately. The pacifists want to grant them more rights.

So what about the Jedi? I was thinking that they could be the only group that can pick out the modified clones (but not know that they're artificial until it's too late). So who do they side with? The clones threaten the whole galaxy so they have to be destroyed. But on the other hand they seem to be asking for the same rights as other sentient beings, perhaps there can be some sort of agreement with them? Which side Anakin falls on is debatable. Yoda and Obi-wan I think should side with the more peaceful option.

Ultimately, they have to be destroyed, because we don't see them in the OT and this could be the reason why - droids don't go crazy like the clones can.

 

 

 

I think you're right on with the Clone Wars needing a moral dilemma. I know it isn't addressed in the movies, why I don't know, but making clones IS a moral dilemma! It doesn't take much of an imagination to think of it as one, it is for us on Earth. It's even more of a moral dilemma if the clones DON'T have souls because we know that there is an afterlife (at the very least for certain Jedi) in Star Wars. How GL could introduce what is basically a slave army and not even question the morality of it is so crazy, I do not get it! How is not even one Jedi going, "uh, so we test tube these guys into conscription...isn't that kinda messed up?". The idea of a clone not having a soul (which I like), makes logical sense. If a sentient being is connected to a "soul" and you just carbon copy him/her physically, what happens to the soul? Do they now share the same one? Why would a new one pop up out of who-knows-where. It makes sense to me that the copy wouldn't have one. There is already a moral dilemma there, I don't understand how everyone overlooks it. No souls just adds to it, IMO.