Vaderisnothayden

TLSO said:

Star Wars to me seemed like it was at its height in the '90s, man.

I'd say it was at its height in the early 80s. That was the real Star Wars time. In the 90s the EU had taken over and Lucas mutilated the originals.

because they revived the action figures

The 90s action figures were awful. Huge big muscular figures with ape-like faces. Star Wars meets King Kong.

 or the originals got re-released

But they didn't. The special edition got released instead. And while it was nice to see Star wars again, it meant that our beloved films were getting replaced with cartoon Jabba and suchlike.

you didn't have to know the real names of snaggletooth or hammerhead or yakface,

As far as I'm conerned that IS their real names. The rest is just EU. They didn't have any other names back in 77-83 so they don't have other names that count.

I think the 90s were so cool for you for Star Wars because it was before the prequels screwed everything but you weren't (I'm guessing) a kid anymore and could appreciate it all on a more adult level. But the real height of Star Wars was when the original movies were current (77-83). That was the time it was all at its coolest. Even if we were just kids. Extend that to '84 or even '85 for immediate aftermath time if you like, but by '86 the height of Star Wars was over and never to return.

rcb said: 

how i wish darth maul could stick is lightsaber up ur golden crack! TPM was the best of the prequels! Come on!

Jeez, chill.

 Sure we all realized later on that ROTJ was the weak link of the saga

No, we didn't all realize that. It isn't.

Does anybody have any idea if Jango Fett was a character Lucas invented way back or if he was a later invention?

Personally I suspect him of being a later invention, but I don't know.

The whole thing of mutilating Star Wars with the special edition and replacing the originals with it so the originals may not be available in the future, that's a stab in the heart. That's no minor thing. That's crime against the huge numbers of people who loved the originals. Similarly, what was done in the prequels wasn't just bad filmmaking, it was horrendous destruction of something good. It was a crime against art. This is not just some bad filmmaking, this (the prequels, special editions, the whole anti-originals thing) is a major fucking crime. A lot of people are hurting bad because of it. What call was there to make a lot of people hurt? And why the heck should something loved by a ton of people be screwed up to satisfy the whims of one man? Quite simply, it's an outrage. And after that, no I don't think Lucas deserves respect any more. Heck, I don't think he respects me and the other fans of the originals (remember that thing he came out with about sorry you fell in love with a half-finished movie? That strikes me as a real dig at the fans of the originals. And I think many would say the GOUT's another dig at us. Not to mention his mutilating our beloved movies, with, as far as I can tell, no consideration for how we might feel). So I guess the feeling's mutual.

I don't know about breaking wind, but we sure got a lot of hot air from Yoda in ROTS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8ETYG0nmAo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4Potdpjhw&feature=related

I came across this on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lv4Potdpjhw&feature=related

rcb said:

as much as lucas has screwed up, he is still the father of star wars. and he did inspire and imagination of one generation. this site would not exist if it weren't for him. adywan wouldn't be doing his video edits for the OT. nobody would be making fan maid videos. imagine how dull ur life might be right now without star wars.

Whatever credit Lucas might deserve is erased by what he's since done against Star Wars. And he was by no means the only person responsible for the original trilogy.

Bashing on TFN? That sounds cool.

Well if it's TPM it's EU, since TPM isn't canon.

AxiaEuxine said:

I have never laughed at anyone for their opinions in this board, ever! No matter how much I disagreed with them. EVER!

Ok. But you have told us that we shouldn't be criticising and complaining. And you need to understand that is as offensive to many of us as laughing seems to be to you.

AxiaEuxine said: I am not a TFN Fangirl, I dont like those forums becuase its full of kids...I perfer talking with people somewhere around my own age. And Im sorry I got you irked, as Ive said many times before I just want to share my love of what is still a fantastic franchise with someone. All my posts stem from that.

Well, you have to remember that many of us here don't feel it's still a fantastic franchise. If you're posting on this site you have to tolerate that.

AxiaEuxine said: Apparently Im gonna argue with each and every one of you about it. 

Well, many of us feel pretty strongly about this.

AxiaEuxine said:I submit that my finding value in that which so many others do not is enough evidence of my open mind.

Well, what you keep ignoring is that so many others DO find value (I don't know how) in that stuff. Your opinion is not the minority opinion you think it is.    

I just see (for the most part) older SW fans not giving the newer stuff any chance. Youll watch it but it seems to me that you've already made up your minds to hate it...

We've given it plenty chances. Personally I gave each prequel film a chance. After AOTC I expected ROTS to be pretty bad, but I still gave it a chance and it cheated me by being even worse than AOTC.

Let me put it this way to you. Do you watch a new clone wars episode and say "Yeah more Star Wars!" or do you say :I hope this one doesnt suck"?

Neither. The new Clone Wars show isn't Star Wars, but it's better than the last two prequels. I don't expect episodes to be awful. I don't expect them to be Star Wars either. I give them a chance to do their own thing and I take them as what they are. I like some aspects, dislike others. You should note that on the thread for it here the show had multiple passionate defenders.

But if somebody did say "I hope this one doesn't suck" that wouldn't mean they weren't giving it a chance. Not giving it a chance would be going into it with "I hope this one sucks" or "No matter what this one is like I will bash it". Hoping it doesn't suck is hoping it won't be bad, which is allowing for it to not be bad, which is giving it a chance. The person who hopes it doesn't suck presumably hopes it will be good. They are not set against recognizing it as good if it is good. As such they are giving it a chance. After AOTC was so bad I expected the next film to be as bad, but I went into it ready to accept it as whatever it turned out to be. As it turned out, it was still rather hard to accept how bad it actually turned out to be. To this day ROTS's carefully contrived awfulness still amazes me. It blows my mind that Lucas managed to make the film so bad. But had it turned out good I would have been happy to embrace it.

We've got good reason to expect new stuff to be crap, but that doesn't mean we don't give it a chance to be better than that.

You seem to be stereotyping our thinking and basing your interpretation of our thinking on simplistic derogatory interpretations. You should consider that maybe we don't fit into your idea of us.

C3PX said:

TheBoost said:

I think I tend to agree that the PT hate is a viscous cycle. It seems to me that more people didn't totally hate the PT until a while after it came out. Partly this could be personal reflection, as the "OHMYGOD ITS STARWARS!" vibe wore off, and part of it might be the cycle of internet bitching honing disapointment of the films into a bitter dagger of snark filled hate.

I feel it seems some people hate the PT because it is the "in" thing that all the cool kids are doing. I feel this way because I could have sworn there was a time when I was a bit of an outcast among my circle of friends who like SW, because I didn't enjoy AOTC at all, while they thought it was a million times better than TPM. When I'd say it TPM was a lot better, they'd call me nuts. Now it really seems most of them tend to agree with me that AOTC is the weakest of the PT.

The question is, is this change of opinion a shift to follow the more popular views and be in the "in" crowd? Or can it be attributed to AOTC not holding up well over multiple viewings?

 

Personally, I'd give my friends and people like them the benefit of the doubt and go with the "not holding up well over multiple viewings" explaination. I think there was also a big movement from, "Wow, ROTS was downright amazing!" to "Well, at least it was a little better than AOTC..." for the same reason.

I don't know, it seems to me that among internet fans at least, PT worship is the in thing. After all, TFN is a huge site with a massive amount of posters. You get people coming to this site who ran into trouble on other sites for criticising Lucas's more  recent work. If our view was so much the in thing that wouldn't be happening.

As for AOTC being the worst of the prequels, I don't agree. AOTC was bad, but ROTS was way worse. Basically each prequel was worse than the last one. I went into each prequel with expectations based on the previous film and was disappointed each time. I mean, if there was a Nobel prize for bad filmmaking, George would really have earned it for ROTS. That was just amazing in the different ways it managed to be bad. Even in things like making the people blend into the background too much and lighting some scenes to distract from the characters. Everything seemed to be done wrong. It was like George had a long list of things to screw up, to make sure he screwed up everything, and then went through the list carefully ticking off each one.

C3PX said:

I for one have not seen Vaderisnohayden displaying any more "obnoxiousness" in his opinions than many of our most active members. 

 Thanks. :)

Overall the show so far has certainly been better than I expected it to be. Mind you, judged by the standards of real Star Wars it still doesn't do too well. But judged by the standards of the last two prequels it comes out looking quite good. I still have plenty issues mind you. Like how the Jedi often come off like twerps (Fisto, Luminara, Aayla, plus Kenobi sometimes). And Trespass annoyed me, though it had good atmosphere. And the whole Jedi anti-attachment thing still grates bigtime. But they've nonetheless done quite well. Ashoka and Ventress are successful portrayals. My view on Ventress has changed a good degree, a result of adapting to the format. A lack of Hayden Christensen is helpful. Though I'm still not crazy on their interpretation of Anakin -he's too much a bland Joe Shmoe to be the great Jedi hero who becomes Darth Vader, plus he's annoying sometimes. I really wish Lucas had kept his vision of Anakin more in line with the guy we met briefly at the end of ROTJ in Darth Vader's death scene. If he'd kept in line with that there'd have been no Jake Lloyds, Hayden Christensens or animated Joe Shmoes. 

Some expanded universe fans are getting bothered because the show is rewriting the story of the clone wars, going against what the expanded universe has established. And maybe you could say well Lucas should be able to brush aside the expanded universe for his stuff, but I think his stuff has been on the expanded universe level for a long time now, so maybe it shouldn't have that higher status. And Lucasfilm is selling expanded universe stuff as some sort of canon, so maybe it isn't fair to just rewrite its story just because Lucas feels like doing an animated show. This show is certainly best taken as expanded universe itself. Even though I gather we're supposed to see it as part of the great Lucas Vision that's higher than expanded universe.

TheBoost said:

 

 I think I tend to agree that the PT hate is a viscous cycle. It seems to me that more people didn't totally hate the PT until a while after it came out. Partly this could be personal reflection, as the "OHMYGOD ITS STARWARS!" vibe wore off, and part of it might be the cycle of internet bitching honing disapointment of the films into a bitter dagger of snark filled hate.

A lot of people hated the PT films right after they came out. No need for a "cycle of internet bitching". Personally I didn't hate TPM when it first came out and I still don't, but I was pretty thoroughly bothered by how awful AOTC was when I first saw it. I was like "Oh fuck, the prequel trilogy is screwed." I knew that a second Hayden prequel wasn't likely to be any better than the first, which was really bad news for Star Wars. As it turned out, the second Hayden prequel was markedly worse than the first. I couldn't believe it when watching ROTS -it was just SO bad. I also had trouble staying awake during my first watching of ROTS, because it was so uninvolving. The prequels turned a lot of people right off right there in the movie theater.

I think the LucasBashing really stems from how he kind of pisses on the fans with his issues over the real versions of the OT. I know it's his personal philosphy of film, but it's kind of a douche bag philosophy. I think the personal distaste fans have garnered for Lucas over the SE/DVD fiasco has also colored their perceptions of the PT, whereas instead of being flawed films by a filmamker we like, they become a slap in the face by someone with 'no respect for the fans.'

Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but my views on the PT haven't been shaped by OT dvd issues in the slightest. And remember, the first two prequels came out years before the OT dvds became a big issues in 2004. My issues with Lucas are a result of various things he's done or said, including the SE, the PT, the OOT dvds situation and his attitude to the OOT and remarks he's made that have pissed me right off.

Btw, good post C3PX.

DarkFather said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

DarkFather said:

Now for Obi-Wan Kenobi. Overall, the voice actor gives a flat performance. Obi-Wan seems too fatigued and "out of it" to be very engaging, and that's the first disappointment in the radio drama so far. Hopefully he gets better later on.

I'm inclined to think Kenobi was the best of the performances.

DarkFather said:

I absolutely love Leia's voice in this.

I don't. For one thing, it's so not Leia.

 

 

 

There's clearly obstacles in your life which you feel powerless to express your disdain for, so your only outlet is being negatively opinionated to the point of obnoxiousness on internet forums.

Superherohype would be a great place for you. Here, however, among the level-minded, you will be branded an outcast and undoubtedly ostracized in the end.

You still have a chance to salvage your reputation. There's time, though very little.

Really, I'd look in the mirror. I'm not the person going around tossing out vicious unprovoked personal attacks on the web. Why do you feel the need to dish out vicious attacks? Is something bad going on in your life, causing you to lash out at perfect strangers? Take a deep breath. All I did on this thread was make some mild criticial statements. I even defended something you put down. And as for my posting elsewhere on this forum, well, I'm hardly the only person here who dislikes the PT and the SE. If you're so bothered by my behavior that you feel the need to lash out at me, then perhaps it's something within you that causes you to be so bothered? I don't know. I'm just wondering, because your way out personal attack coming out of the blue is a surprise to me. I hope my wondering doesn't offend you, but you have to understand that wondering like that comes naturally in reaction to such bizarre blasts of sudden hostility.

Understand this, though, I don't come here to get into fights with people, so I won't be drawn into a drawn-out argument with you. I saw you pick a fight with another poster on one of the other threads yesterday. It wasn't a pleasant sight. I don't want to get into something like that or worse. So if you continue to post in a hostile manner, I will just ignore your posts.  

C3PX said:

Right, all that you wrote is just fine, but that is why I said "Well, there is your problem right there", you don't like radio dramas. No matter how well done they are, you wouldn't like them. Not even sure why you bothered to listen to them. I can't stand most hard rock, grates on my nerves, I find listening to is far from enjoyable. That said, I am not going to go out reviewing hard rock and death metal albums, and saying what is and isn't good in regards to these types of music, because no matter how good they are, I am not going to like them. Like you said, these radio dramas are not for you.

Well it's not a case of not being able to stand radio dramas, they just don't work 100% for me. Like I said, I liked the Star Wars radio dramas to a certain extent. And there were things I liked about it and things I didn't like. So I have an opinion on  them.

Daley did not, nor did he need to, demonstrate what could be done in the format, because it is a tried and true format, it has been around for a very long time. Daley did a good job of adapting it to this format, but he didn't do anything new. It had all been done before. Styles of acting and story telling are different in radio than they are in television or movies, things are just done differently.

I think Daley actually said somewhere that he set out to demonstrate what could be done with the format. And I did read that the drama was indeed something new, in some aspect of style or how it worked, I just forget the specifics.

C3PX said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

C3PX said:

Again, might as well watch the movie with your eyes closed. Absolutely pointless.

 

 Well I never saw any particular point to the radio dramas in the first place.

 

Well, there is your problem right there.

 

I don't see it as a problem. I've never been a fan of audio drama. It's not a format that works particularly well for me. The Star Wars dramas worked better than I expected, but still they're not my format. And I never saw the point in adapting the films to radio drama. I think Daley wanted to demonstrate what could be done in the format. But that doesn't count for me, because I don't care about the format. I rather resent what I consider the liberties the radio drama takes with the story. And the Leia ep annoys me -Leia doesn't feel like Leia and the whole thing doesn't work very well. And as far as I'm concerned, the film versions of the characters are THE versions. So different actors playing the parts must therefore be a false version in my view. Some of the radio actors manage pretty well in capturing the essence of the characters anyway (such as the Kenobi and Solo actors), but Leia is glaringly not Leia. Obviously, this is not the view you take, but it's how I feel. I don't mean any offense to anyone. People are perfectly entitled to like the radio dramas. Even I like them to a certain extent. But they're not my thing overall.

bkev said:

Cept for vaderisnothayden, who is known for being the most negative out of all of us.  He makes Skyjedi look like a TFN user.

Cool. :D

AxiaEuxine said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

If anybody's not thinking for themselves it's the people who uncriticially swallow whatever crap Lucas puts out without raising objection.

Nooo your just a bitter, jaded, Star Wars...ex-star wars fan. Like I recently said I cant say oh I like this but not that becuase every time I post something you'll all throw that back in my face. And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!! 

Ex-fan? No, I'm a fan of Star Wars, the real Star Wars. Being fed up with the crap being passed off as Star wars doesn't make me an "ex" fan. 

And the Prequels ARE good movies FOR FUCK'S SAKE!!!!! 

Do you think if you shout that loud enough it'll somehow make it true? I don't know how anybody in their right mind can consider AOTC and ROTS to be good movies.

Everything you haters bash the prequels and Lucas for is present in the original trilogy, bad acting, childish plots, gaping plot holes and ridiculous characters. All there in the OT boys and girls. This is why I am so completely mystified by your hatred of the prequels. It makes no sense. Its hypocritical.

This is a common nonsense argument thrown up by prequel worshippers. Whatever faults the OT has in common with the PT are FAR worse in the PT. What we've got in the OT is films that work and work very well. That is not true of the PT.

Not to mention the prequels dont have those now painful to look at model work and matte paintings. Brilliant for thier time but now just a sign of aged and tired movies, like, apparently most of thier fans. The only thing wrong with the SEs was that enough of the shots that needed updated weren't.

I don't find the model work and matte paintings remotely painful to look at. Can't say the same for the artificial look of the PT though. And why a great work of art needs to be updated I cannot fathom.

I dont want to write inflammatory things

Then why come here to THIS site (a haven for OT lovers persecuted elsewhere on the net) to tell us we're stupid for not liking your precious PT? I'm afraid you've given me the impression that you very much want to write inflammatory things.

But I want to share my favorite thing in the whole world with its fans.

But we're not its fans. We're fans of the OT, not the PT. Most of us.

The prequels are every bit as good as the OT. And in some cases better...PT = 100% ewok free

The prequels are every bit as good as dogs' droppings. The OT is miles ahead. And the ewoks aren't that bad. The PT's use of cartoon characters is far worse.

So let go of this hatred...for once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.

Contrary to Yoda's notions, hatred is sometimes justified.

AxiaEuxine said:

TheBoost said:

I think the LucasBashing really stems from how he kind of pisses on the fans with his issues over the real versions of the OT. I know it's his personal philosphy of film, but it's kind of a douche bag philosophy. I think the personal distaste fans have garnered for Lucas over the SE/DVD fiasco has also colored their perceptions of the PT, whereas instead of being flawed films by a filmamker we like, they become a slap in the face by someone with 'no respect for the fans.'

EXACTLY!!! (well some of it) Ohhh I didnt get want I wanted for the OT DVDs. Everything Star wars is crap and none of it is good! I hate you all! :::holds breath and crosses arms until he get what he wants from movies that belong to someone else::::

Oh nonsense. Certainly my personal experience is seeing TPM and having mixed feelings and hoping for something at least on that level in AOTC and being massively disappointed by AOTC and then realizing that the remaining prequel would probably be no better than AOTC and thus shite. That was all before the furore over the OT dvds. TPM had its good points but didn't satisfy. AOTC massively disappointed. That's how those two films made me feel on their own, without OT dvds being a factor. I hadn't even switched to dvd at that time so dvd wasn't a big concern for me. And then later ROTS came out and instead of being on a level with AOTC as I expected it was far worse. That's my experience with the PT -repeated disappointment, no "I'm pissed off about the OT thus I won't like these!" I wanted to like the PT. Because if it was no good then we had no good second trilogy for Star Wars. I'd waited since the 80s for the remaining Star Wars films. Of course I wanted them to be good and to like them. And I was cheated. And I quite rightly resented being cheated. We were supposed to get Star Wars films, which we'd waited since the 80s for, and instead we were given crap.

As for the OT films belonging to someone else, would you ever quit with that tired crap. They're classics. They belong to all of us. Not just Lucas.

And give the "cultural signifigance" argument a rest. I would be amazed if any of you actually care about that. You want "your" vision of Star Wars and thats all there is to it. At least be honest. Cultural significance indeed.

I'm not sure what you mean by the cultural significance argument, but some of us do actually care about culture. As for wanting our vision of Star Wars, why shouldn't we, that's the vision of Star Wars that made the legend. Without that version of Star Wars Lucas would never have gotten the chance to make the prequels. We want the Star Wars that made the legend and we have every right to.

To say Lucas had no respect for the fans is utter tripe. Its more accurate to say that Fans have no respect for Lucas.

I can't see why we should respect Lucas, after the things he's done and said. But many fans worship the guy. As for his respect for the fans, I can't say I've felt the respect.

I really dont know why you all continue to bitch about this. As members of this forum you all know how to get hold of rather nice copies of the Original Trilogy in all its OH my Lord these scenes need to be replaced/updated glory.

You don't understand that people might want to complain when something bad is done to something they care about? The GOUT dvds are unsatisfactory to many people. More particularly there's the future to consider. Dvds cease to work after about 15 years. Dvd players will be replaced with blu ray. We need to know that the original films will be put out in future formats, so that we'll be able to watch them 20, 30, 40 years from now. And at present hopes for that look poor. Meanwhile, Lucas has mutilated the films we love and insists on including crap films in the same canon. We have much to complain about.

And don't get me wrong I just want to share my favoritist thing ever with people who feel the same way. I want to discuss the latest episode of the Clone Wars every week but I dont DARE go there. Oh No No. Its so frustrating

If you want to do that there's plenty places on the net you could do that other than the haven for OT lovers and PT/SE haters. And even here you can praise the Clone Wars show if you want to. Many have here. Of course, some people may disagree with you, but surely there's nothing wrong with not everybody agreeing. Unlike certain sites, this site tolerates dissenting opinion. But what I think shouldn't be tolerated is people coming here to tell us we're stupid for not liking the PT or SE or that we shouldn't criticise The Great Works of The Great Lucas.

C3PX said:

Again, might as well watch the movie with your eyes closed. Absolutely pointless.

 Well I never saw any particular point to the radio dramas in the first place.

AxiaEuxine said:

DarkFather said:

I don't think most of the complaints are the user's own initial thoughts from having watched it a lot of the time. I think they've been socially programmed by hanging around certain people, constantly hearing the same complaints, and then absorbing it into themselves while assuming they had the same "initial personal thoughts" as their friends. I've known too many who thought the PT was "okay" for the longest time before being exposed to hate lists and whatnot.

And I don't believe in censoring. Read hatelists and negative humor articles. But keep a clear head.

I guess those things have a tendancy to program people through repitition of a statement. You'll soon walk away thinking the author's thoughts were your thoughts originally, when in fact, if you had been mindful, you might have still walked away thinking the PT was "okay" rather than "goddam worse movies ever made."

Sure, sometimes we delude ourselves and need corrected on our thinking. But ask yourself: how is the person telling you these things any more credible then you are in the area of OPINION?

Think about things you read that appeal to emotion, therefore easily manipulating you. Take what seems sound, and cast all the other stuff away.

 

 Thats funny becuase I think the same exact thing about prequel haters. I dont run into ANYBODY that actually likes them. Youve all let your opinions been completely colored and programed by your buddies, media the dog in the next yard.... Its the only explanation from walking away from the prequels and not thinking they are good movies... But to each his own.

So you believe it's impossible for somebody to dislike the prequels of their own accord? The movies are so incredibly great that people can't be thinking on their own if they dislike them? What nonsense. The first prequel patently fails as a Star wars film and the later two fail as films. It's very easy to see that. It doesn't take any nefarious indoctrination of people by their friends. If anybody's not thinking for themselves it's the people who uncriticially swallow whatever crap Lucas puts out without raising objection.

AxiaEuxine said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

AxiaEuxine said:

C3PX said:

You seem very insistent on failing to understand us...

Sorry about that...you could be right. I had just come from a thread with bashing running rampant...probably set me in the wrong mood.

Ok, here's some basic principles: When it comes to Lucas's ouput 1997 onwards, Bashing = Good. Gushing = Bad. Ok?

 

Heres some food for thought just becuase I dont agree with you on something doesnt mean I have a little shrine to Lucas in my basement now does it. It doesnt mean that I LOVE everything he does now does it?

 

Well, to be honest, some of the things you've said on this site have given me the impression you might be having an actual Lucas shrine somewhere. And you have given me the impression that you're pretty damn uncritical about his work. 

AxiaEuxine said:

see you auntie said:

How am I bashing or more so how can one misconstrue that comment as Lucas bashing when one simply wishes that an alternative or special edition not replace the original, shouldn't they both be allowed to co-exist?

I am going to forgo my opinion on that matter and answer you in this way. Star Wars is the property of Lucas. He can do with it what he pleases, whether you, I or the guy next door likes it. It IS his.

Legally maybe, but definitely not morally. It belongs to the world. It belongs to all of us. Morally he most definitely does NOT have the right to do whatever he wants with it. The argument that it's his and he has the right to do what he wants with it is obscene and it's the sort of argument I associate with Lucas zombies who make daily sacrifices at a Lucas shrine. 

AxiaEuxine said:

see you auntie said:

How am I bashing or more so how can one misconstrue that comment as Lucas bashing when one simply wishes that an alternative or special edition not replace the original, shouldn't they both be allowed to co-exist?

I am going to forgo my opinion on that matter and answer you in this way. Star Wars is the property of Lucas. He can do with it what he pleases, whether you, I or the guy next door likes it. It IS his.

And I apologise for accusing you of Lucas bashing. I just expect it to be the default status of most Star Wars fans nowadays....unfortunantly

 

 If only it was. Unfortunately the default status seems to be Lucas worship.

AxiaEuxine said:

well I dont own the originals so I cant replace the originals with any thing I might do. I assume your comment is Lucas bashing Special edition inspired?

 

Lucas Bashing is a pejorative term for reasonable objection to the harm Lucas has done to Star Wars.

TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

You'd need somebody other than Lucas to write them. And hopefully somebody other than Lucas to be in charge of the project. Plus different actors for some characters, notably Anakin in the later two films.

 

 Lucas managed to get talented actors like Liam Neeson, Ewan McGregor, and Natalie Portman to deliver flat, uninpired performances. Even Harrison Ford complained about how little attention Lucas gave actors.

Do you suppose with a better director, one who wouldn't let "I hate sand" be a major plot point, your distaste of Christenson might be lessoned?

Christensen even without Lucas couldn't do Anakin right. I've seen him act in other things. I know his acting. He's totally inappropriate for Anakin.

And Neeson did a good job in TPM. So did Portman. 

TheBoost said:

Vaderisnothayden said:

General question for anyone on this thread, does this life debt thing mean we're to assume Chewie wasn't genuinely emotionally attached to Han and just stuck with him due to this life debt?

 

 In the movies, I totally know Chewie genuinly loved Han and the gang. Their relationship was clearly partners and pals (dare I say, chums?) in Star Wars, and Chewie was clearly part of the 'family' in Empire and Jedi.

Which is why the lifedebt thing is so irritating. It's not needed. I seems to exist just because someone said 'there's no way a man and a space monkey could be equal partners and friends. How can I easily a) explain how the monkey is in fact subservient, and b) explain how the monkey sticks around instead of going off to pick space bananas'

If Chewie has a lifedebt, and still loves Han and the crew, that has a wierd undertone of old Hollywood and the old black slave/housekeeper who deeply loved the family they worked for.

Well the lifedebt dates back to the late 70s and that was a long time ago.

You'd need somebody other than Lucas to write them. And hopefully somebody other than Lucas to be in charge of the project. Plus different actors for some characters, notably Anakin in the later two films.