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Trooperman

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15-Feb-2005
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15-Jun-2015
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Post
#305780
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305780/action/topic#305780
Time
Originally posted by: Erikstormtrooper
Originally posted by: SluggoI know erikstormtrooper has been good at assembling notes etc. I'd nominate him as Ranch Manager, if such a thing is appropriate.


Golly Thanks, Slugs.

Sure, I guess I can do that, until someone else comes along who wants it more.

The main thing we need is someone with a real fire in their belly to see this through to completion. At first that was InfoDroid, and then Commander Courage. But that role is pretty vacant at the moment.

I think it would be a good idea to create a Starkiller team. Things have just been too come-and-go to get anything concrete done. And we need to have some way to vote on issues that are unresolved (like Maul=Grievous). That's not to say that we wouldn't take input from those not on the official team. One of the best aspects of this project has been its openness to new ideas from just about anyone. But I think a voting team is needed to make the final say. What do y'all think?

A lot of work was done on Episode I in terms of story, but I don't know how much editing was done. Since Episode I is a kind-of standalone story (aside from the C-3PO angle), I don't see why some work couldn't be restarted on it. I still have the proposed "script" if anyone cares. Any takers?


I'd like to be involved (to some extent) with story development. The scripts that I read were good for starters but can certainly be improved on.


"The main thing we need is someone with a real fire in their belly to see this through to completion."

I think this is true. Wasn't LTH really interested in doing Ep. I? I ought to contact him.

The problem CC and others were running into was this- you can't just write whatever you want in the script without having the special-FX capability to pull it off. Now, Adywan is hard at work on his own trilogy right now, and although he did offer to help with some shots (as time allows), I wouldn't want to put a burden on him. On the flip side, it's probably hard for him to agree to anything without knowing what it all entails.

I have gotten by in SOTDS by cutting together FX footage from other films (with a couple new shots from Ady), but for Ep. I and III, which are more fundamentally flawed, more FX work would be needed.

Off topic a little, but my original idea for Ep. III was to completely redo the opening battle of Ep. III, even though I know a lot of people liked it. It's just way too cluttered and inconsistent with everything else, and it introduces a bunch of new ship designs that are never seen again. Keep the cockpit shots, of course, but with new FX create a tight and controlled dogfight sequence with actual TIE fighters and X-Wings, in the style of the OT. This idea has come up before. The fighters are brand new in Ep. III, and then you see them in Ep. IV and they're all beaten up. The rebel's ships are then seen as out-of-date in Ep. IV.

Ordinarily this would probably be really difficult, but after seeing Ady's new clips, I know he is the master of the TIE fighter/X-wing shot Maybe it would be possible to work something out once we have our act together at "the Ranch." I've found that you don't really know what shots you're forgetting until you really start cutting it together. But I think that if we finalize a script, or at least a collection of notes, for Ep. I, then we can come up with a master list of FX shots that would be required. Only when we know exactly what we want should we go to Ady for help. I don't want to speak for Ady, but I think he would be very willing if we gave him plenty of time to work.

But yeah, I would really like to see someone come forward with as much enthusiasm for fixing Ep. I (or III) as I had before I started on SOTDS, to see this through to completion.

The problem with Ep. I is not how to fix it, because there are at least a dozen edits of that out there, many of them very well done. The problem is there are so many options, it's hard to make a definite decision on what course to take with issues like "Does Maul=Grievous. If so, how?"

The problem with Ep. II was bad editing, bad use of music, and unlikability of the main characters, especially Anakin. But at its heart, the story was cohesive. That was a fixable problem.

The problem with Ep. III is that it's a complete mess on repeated viewings because Anakin's turn is bad, Padme's death is bad, and a lot of the movie is blown on Grievous, Obi-Wan, and the giant lizard. Besides being completely out of place, they aren't even good as stand-alone scenes. My idea to elevate the quality of this one was to take out the whole Obi-Wan and the lizard somehow, as well as the Emperor/Yoda fight, and put in narration for Anakin as he slips to the Dark Side (although the narration might be too great of a stylistic departure from the other SW movies). When he becomes evil, the narration stops.

And remember that since Yoda never fights in SOTDS, in keeping with his original character, if we remove the Emperor/Yoda fight, nobody will protest because there is no reason to believe that Yoda is capable of using a lightsaber at his age. And I don't begin to know what do about Palpatine's ridiculous voice and makeup after he turns.

From my point of view, Ep. III requires the most amount of thought and of major script changes to be succesful. Episode I just requires a lot of foreign dubbing. The main ideas are already there, not only in the scripts we've worked out, but in edits like "Balance of the Force."

So as a stand-alone flick, Ep. I fundamentally works, while Ep. III fundamentally does not.

Any thoughts? A discussion of this stuff would be great.
Post
#305470
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/305470/action/topic#305470
Time
Hi,

Thank you to everybody for your responses. I really appreciate it. Musicman, I agree with everything you said. To everyone else, I'm sorry to clutter the thread with personal info, but I included it to let you know why there is such a delay.

After a lot of thought, I've decided not to send this out in rough cut form, for a couple of reasons. One: I know it will leak onto the Internet. Even the XO project was leaked somehow, and that wasn't even distributed! If this is leaked, the impact will be much less. Second reason: I've heard back from Adywan and he is still interested in helping me out with this, especially because he will have finished his own amazing project in a couple of weeks. Therefore, the movie will be finished this year

However, I think I'm going to do as some of you suggested and release another clip. It will give away a lot more about how this movie will be, but that's OK- you've all waited a long time and I want you to see some of the meat. I think it will be a good clip.

TM

P.S. I found an article I hadn't read before. I think it's interesting because it confirms my major issues with the music as used in Ep. II (although I would disagree that Ep. II is a better score than Ep. I).

Music in Ep. II
Post
#304961
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/304961/action/topic#304961
Time
Originally posted by: lth
I'd like to add my voice to the calls for a distribution of the rough cut.

See, I really don't want to have this distributed. As long as we have the understanding that this is NOT to be distributed to anyone, even relatives, then I will synch up the unfinished audio to the film and send out copies. Which you should only ask for if you cannot wait, because the impact is less than it would be.

Originally posted by: Weezer12
Hmmm...well, as you know, Trooperman, I for one have been following this project very intently for a LONG time, now. I contributed some voice acting to Joe which I absolutely cannot wait to see on film. But here we have Trooperman saying that he'll send out copies of the film to those who have been following it very closely, while PaulIsDead is discouraging him from doing this. This is the problem: I'm getting the impression from Trooperman that with senior year ending and college applications/interviews/etc starting up soon, he may never get around to touching this project again, if not for a very, very long time. Trust me, the transition from senior year to college is still very fresh in my head. I had tons of projects I was involved with during that time period that I've yet to touch since entering college and I feel really bad about it. But, such is life. Frankly, I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have a nice, 95% completed version of the film in my hands than have to wait years to ever see it--or worse, NEVER see it. I don't mean to sound greedy, but considering how unique and exciting this project has been since the start, we've been left in the dark about it for a while--which, considering Trooperman's situation, is perfectly understandable. What I'm saying is, I for one, DO want a copy of this film. Even if you feel unsatisfied with the prospect of only being able to release a "mostly-complete" version of the film, you needn't worry: after all, not only would I not WANT to distribute it online, I don't even know how!


First of all, I'm sorry Weezer- I had told you I would send you that footage. Secondly, I don't know if I would call it a "nice, 95% completed version." The voices are the problem. They are not mixed correctly right now. It's really a job for two people- Adywan and me. Adywan is very hard at work on his own project right now, but hopefully we will both get some free time and get this done. Thirdly, this will be completed and completed soon. if Adwan finishes his (great) project and gets a few months that he can devote to this, then a 2008 release seems very likely.

I can hear you all laughing.

But seriously, we will do our best.

Happy New Year!
TM
Post
#304957
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/304957/action/topic#304957
Time
Thanks to everyone for all of your comments. I really appreciate your advice.

Originally posted by: musicman
I still try to tinker with editing in my free time (okay, the free time I steal from other things just to retain some semblance of sanity)

Exactly. You sound a lot like me. And I really enjoyed your complete score CD's. I will be sure to keep in touch with you

Originally posted by: zombie84
Well, speaking as someone in "the biz" you should be aware that film school is simply one (VERY expensive) option to take if you want to get into filmmaking. Honestly, the only worthwhile thing you get out of it is friends and likeminded people that you can hang out with and collaborate with and keep encouraging each other, but for the $30,000+ pricetag you could do a lot of other film-related things. I've been out of filmschool for years and I only last month payed off my student loan. Its ridiculous what they charge nowadays.

This is what I've read. Yeah, it is ridiculous what they charge nowadays. That's why it's so important that my work is not only acceptable to these places, but that I receive some major scholarships in order to attend.

From what I understand, if you are truly talented in film, then film school is a huge waste of time and money. If you really are a natural, then you can learn just as much if not more by studying films, watching DVD extras, and reading many books on the subject (which I've been doing). But the idea of going to "film school" seems like a bad idea for me. You get out of school, in a ton of debt (as you said, you only just paid off your student loan), and then where are you? You still have yet to make it, you're out of money, and if you don't make it you're pretty much sunk because you don't have any other marketable skill.

Originally posted by: musicman
My primary goal in the realm of film is scoring, though, as I intend for my overall career to be composition. I basically want to be a composer/musician.


Like I said, this was my original idea. Then, I started to look at the facts:

-Incredible competition because it's the only really lucrative musical field nowadays
-No creative freedom- slavery to the temp track and bad directors
-No great films to compose for anymore.
-Only a handful actually make it onto the A-list and compose for big-budget films, at which point they are still stifled by the director, dialed down, and overpowered with sound effects.

Basically, now, it seems like you're just a hired hand. Deviate from the temp track sound and you get replaced by one of the many other composers only too happy to comply. And this would be a really hard thing to take for someone who loves film as much as I do and who hates bad film as much as I do.

--------------------------

So this is kind of my battleplan (making a big assumption that I am talented enough in music composition and film that schools will really want me):

-Assuming I am accepted with enough money in scholarships, I go to a major university to study music composition (which at the bachelor's level is pretty rare. The departments accept anywhere from 1 to 8 students a year. Usually composition is either a concentration after two years general music, or else it's a masters program). The school I am going to is also one of the very well known film schools. I don't major in film, but I associate with the people in the film department and take film classes on the side if I can.

Then....

From what I've read, most people fail in the arts because they are idealistic and they do not understand the economics and the business behind any of it. Maybe it would make sense to then go into music business or entertainment law, not just to understand the business but also because I could fall back on it if I don't make it in film. And the salaries are nothing to sneeze at either. Does this seem logical to Zombie, MTHaslett, and anyone else who knows more about hte business?

For the business or law, I would go to either USC or UCLA and continue to make connections in film and music, taking classes in each outside of my major. Or I could continue to go the film scoring route and take USC's 1-year graduate program for film scoring on the side. And at that point, hopefully opportunities start to present themselves, either in film music or in film itself. I've never, ever heard of a film composer managing to work his way up to director or producer, but maybe it's possible. I know several film editors have made that jump. Maybe film editing is the smartest extension.

Whichever way, it seems like where you go to school is critical because from what I've heard, if you are great at what you do and you attend one of these big schools and take advantage of all the opportunities, you will be infinitely better off than someone that just moves to LA and hopes things will start happening. I guess what I'm saying is that I can't afford to play this haphazardly.

Originally posted by: PaulisDead2221

I can see the passion for film and music. I knew a guy who got his foot in the door, then came back because LA is so crappy. When you move down there to try and get in to the 'biz, don't let the crappiness of the people let you down. That's kinda what's been turning me off to a job in film lately... Anyway I hope you stick around the forums for a long time, just in case you make the big leagues


Tell me about it. It's the belly of the beast. I think the place is run by high school dropouts now.

I'm expecting the worst; that way I won't be disappointed. I think the trick is to completely steer away from conversations pertaining to morals, politics, or etc. Just be completely quiet and don't give your opinions out.

One last thing- is it true now that to get a job you've got to be a scientologist? I've talked with someone whose sister works over there, and she says it's becoming a monopoly. I can't believe that's true.


Again, I'd love to hear any of your thoughts or advice on this. Thanks a lot for your help
Post
#304570
Topic
//Star Wars Begins\\: HD Version Now on Vimeo
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/304570/action/topic#304570
Time
Originally posted by: Bantha Track
Originally posted by: Sluggo You remember this Trooperman quote from a year back...
My second point is that this is by Erich Wolfgang Korngold, whose music was the inspiration for John Williams AND George Lucas as well. This is a little known fact, but George Lucas bought an album called "The Sea Hawk", a recording of Korngold's film music by Charles Gerhardt, and it was this that inspired him to request the same type of score from J. Williams- he even mentioned "The Sea Hawk" in the conversation.

The main title music I have used comes from this same album that was the original inspiration in the first place.

And finally, it's very possible that this was actually the main title theme used in the original TEMP TRACK for Star Wars- notice the similarity to the original Star Wars theme.


There is another Korngold sound track that sounds even more like Star Wars. It is the sound track to the film Kings Row (1942). The main theme contains a refrain that is very close to the main Stars Wars theme. You can hear a little clip of it on the Amazon website here. The refrain I'm refering to is played at about 11 seconds in.

"Da da da Daaaaa Daaaa"



This is the piece I was referring to, the King's Row main title. And it actually looks like I was correct, because I was just on the Intrada website looking at the new release of "King's Row" and "Sea Dog", and the press release says that this piece was indeed inspiration for the Star Wars theme.
Post
#304566
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/304566/action/topic#304566
Time
Hi all,

I feel as though I owe you all an explanation as to the ridiculous delay in getting this project done, so I’m going to explain what has been going on. I was going to wait until after I released this, but not anymore.

I’m a teenager. I started this thing in 9th grade and I’m now in my senior year of high school. After all, what grown man would think up something as crazy as this project and then actually try to do it? I hadn't mentioned this before for obvious reasons (I would probably not have gotten help or have been taken seriously).

I started this project eagerly, but the farther and farther I got, the more and more I realized the magnitude of what I was trying to do, even with all of your help. And my time on the computer is obviously limited to some degree. I had schoolwork and all kinds of other things that took priority over this. So work slowed.

But the other thing is this—over the span of this project, I began to admit to myself how much I love film (and film music). Despite others peoples expectations of me to go into fields in math, science, english, or music (I’m number one in my class, do well in school), I have a burning passion to put great things on the screen and, through editing and brilliant music, create impact and thrill an audience. I don’t think a day goes by without my brain stringing shots together, whether it’s for a western or for an imaginary film adaptation of “Brave New World.” The most rewarding part of this project for me was going to be sending the movie out to all of you and hearing back from you about what you liked, who you invited over to watch it, etc. And on the flip side, it angers me a lot more than other people that movies today are so awful, but I know I’m not the only one. A very smart person said, “Most films are a reflection of the culture that produced them.” I think there’s a lot of truth in that.

Anyway, I began to think this- if I don’t do this, then nobody will. Most of my generation doesn’t have my taste in film, but many, many other people do. Maybe I should go into film or film music for a living, despite all of the risks, in order to try and bring film back to its former state of glory, which was fizzling by the 80’s and IMO was completely wrecked by the turn of the century. My original dream was to go solely into film scoring, but the problem seems to be that because directors have no taste anymore, they dictate what the composer does, even going so far as to make him do MIDI mockups of the score and compose over his shoulder. It sounds like nowadays, the only path would be to change it from the top (become the producer or the director). Then, I either hire a great composer who understands film and does a great score, or I compose the score myself. If I could just get myself into the (political) position to make a movie that goes into wide release, I think I could really make an impact because I believe I truly understand filmmaking (and the role of music in film). I know this is an ambitious goal.

But I’m an ambitious person.

Regarding this project: what I think I’ll do is overlay the rough sound mix onto the finished video (soon) and just send it out to the people who are still following this thing- as long as I have your word that you will not distribute it, because I don’t want this unfinished version out there. I feel like I should do this because you’ve had to wait for way too long, and finished or not, I want you guys to see what I’m doing. As I’ve said many times, the creative content is all there, but the audio needs some polishing and a couple FX shots are not done. I just don’t have 16 hours a day to spend on this like Adywan (who is really doing a knockout job on his own project right now). I have practically no time at all nowadays. Hopefully by the time summer rolls around, Ady and I can finish this before I go off to college. As for now and for the next few months, I will be all over the place interviewing and submitting portfolios (for music composition) in order to get into a competitive school not only for music composition, the area I am studying, but also for film, so I can start making contacts in the film industry. There are only three or four major schools for that in the U.S.

I know what you’re probably thinking. Everybody wants to make movies. How are you any different?

Because not only do I have a true talent for film, I have a true talent for music (and perfect pitch too, ha ha), and not only do I understand both art forms, but I also believe I can play the game and get into a position to make an impact, like Spielberg and “Jaws”, Coppola and “The Godfather”, Stallone and “Rocky,” and George Lucas with “Star Wars.” It was possible back then. Is it possible today? I hope so. The film industry is obviously not a fair thing, but I believe that I can make it and still stick to my morals and not go broke in the meantime. Any advice on what is possibly a very stupid career choice would be much appreciated.

I hope this whole thing makes a little bit more sense now.

Merry Christmas everyone,
TM
Post
#301204
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301204/action/topic#301204
Time
Trust me, I've had to go through each scene and analyze every shot of this. Attack of the Clones is an awful, awful film in every category. Music is mediocre, cinematography is awful, script is awful ("I wish I could just wish away my feelings"), acting is horrid, and the whole mess is packaged in incredibly unrealistic CG. The film deserves the flak- it's just complete, contrived crap.

Post
#297768
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/297768/action/topic#297768
Time
Hi everyone,

The bad news is that this will probably not be done by the end of the year. This doesn’t have anything to do with Ady; it’s my own messed up schedule.

The good news is that it is being done right.

I just received a new mix from Adywan which was extremely difficult. As an example, there’s one spot where in the very same shot, I went from:

-Newly recorded Owen
-C3PO taken from a radio drama
-Newly recorded Anakin
-Original Cliegg recording

Murder as you could imagine, especially if you heard the differences in how each was recorded. Somehow Ady made this mess sound like something. I would not have gotten it this good by myself.

I sound like a broken record, but after you sit down and watch this, you will realize why this has taken so long. One of the unwritten rules of fan edits is that you do not DO this (dub in so many new voices in English), because it involves so much work to get right. Thanks again to Ady for making this thing happen.

Also, I recently got to actually watch the movie on an actual 16x9 widescreen, and it looks great. Definitely not as razor sharp as the official DVD, but that’s not what I was going for. For some reason the image looks even better on the big widescreen than on my 4:3 monitor….

It’s coming. Just try to forget about it until it’s done. I’m sorry…

TM
Post
#296222
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/296222/action/topic#296222
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
TM, the mix Ady did is much better. I'm trying to get that ADR done soon.


Great, thank you!- I was just about to ask you about that.

Thank you Darth R. and Jra- I'm very excited too. I think Ady was really able to make the old and the new blend seamlessly. This is great because now (I hope) the new voice will be taken seriously. It looks like we have a green light to continue in the same way. Thanks again to Ady!

Post
#296147
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/296147/action/topic#296147
Time
Hi guys,

Here is a sample clip containing new, Adywan-mixed dialogue.

http://download.yousendit.com/4D26CAFA27B2F549



TM

EDIT: This must make no sense to you.

Adywan actually does have the time (at least for now) to work on the audio for SOTDS. He didn’t realize the film was to be in stereo and that he wouldn’t have to do the whole film when he first told me he wouldn’t be able to do it. He was attempting a 5.1 mix, which would have been very difficult with what I gave him. So Adywan will be helping with the audio after all. You’re probably sick of this clip by now, ha ha!- but it really is best because you can compare it to the previous versions.
Post
#295524
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295524/action/topic#295524
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
I think the 70's look has grown on me a bit since I first watched the OT in entirety in 2004. I had only seen parts of the movies on tv before. But yeah, the look of the original films and the prequel films is totally different. I think the pristine look of the prequels works well though because it takes place in the days of the republic when the Jedi are still around. Queen Amidala's costumes were pretty extravagant and some of them were unnecessary. Then again, they probably make perfect sense to a planet who elects a girl at 16 years old to be queen. I think it does keep with the idea of those in power being complacent and more worried about formalities and properness intstead of leading their people. It might have been more interesting if the other characters made a big deal out of her wardrobe. Like what would Han Solo have said if he saw Leia wearing that kind of stuff?

I used a fairly basic photo editing program, not something advanced like photoshop to make those corrections. I'm sure someone here could improve the actual video rather than still frames far better than those examples. Whatever you do, I'm really looking forward to this because there was just so much in the prequels that didn't feel right and not always in the sense of not having an OT feel. More like going to the trouble to set up all these ideas and concepts and not fully delivering them. Themes and personalities have places where they should be but aren't. I think I now understand why numerous people here have mentioned they saw the prequel films multiple times because they thought they missed something the previous time.



I agree completely... a big problem was devoting so much screentime to concepts that aren't even explained, and then having Anakin turn to the dark side in a couple scenes in ROTS, almost as an afterthought. All I'm trying to do is take what we have and make it as classy and as entertaining as possible. BTW, in SOTDS Amidala is actually born into royalty like Leia was. Through some clever editing I eliminated all references to her being "elected" and serving terms. In fact, Amidala is a queen throughout the PT, but she is also serving as senator (this was Magnoliafan's idea). I think this makes a whole lot more sense.

I know, I watched the prequels several times too because I thought I was missing something. There wasn't anything I missed, they were just bad, ha ha


Post
#295512
Topic
Happy 25th Birthday, Compact Disc
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295512/action/topic#295512
Time
I can very easily tell the difference between mp3 and uncompressed WAV. Especially with orchestral music. I don't know how to describe it... cycling? Wahwahwah.... It's very obvious.

I know there are different methods of encoding mp3's, but based on the mp3's I've heard, CD's beat mp3's any day.

In fact, I was in the car with a friend and he had on a Star Wars soundtrack CD. I could instantly hear it was a compressed copy. I asked him about it and sure enough, it was not the original album. He had burned mp3's.

I have to agree with Arnie; I love the physicality of a disc, not to mention the liner notes and the case and so on. I don't like downloading music.
Post
#295511
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295511/action/topic#295511
Time
Good news: Adywan has just sent me his FX solution to the Anakin vs. Dooku problem and it is great and solves the scene very nicely. Thank you so much, Adywan

Bad news: At this point, Ady is very busy/falling behind on his own "Revisited" project because he was spending so much time doing audio for SOTDS. So he will not be able to work on this anymore (at least not for the time being).


That's where we are right now. I've told you everything I know, ha ha. I'd love for you all to see this movie, but I'm not going to release it without a very convincing audio mix because if the audio is bad, the movie will not be taken seriously.

The main thing here is dialogue mixing. I know it can be done, I saw a couple Adywan test clips... it can be done. I'm just running out of time in "the real world". However, I have pretty much all of the elements ready to be worked on.

My question is this... is there anyone out there fairly experienced with audio mixing and someone that has all the plugins that would be neccessary to do something like this. Would you be willing to finish this audio for me? Like the original release of the OT, the final audio should be in (possibly matrixed) stereo, not necessarily 5.1 surround.

Obviously it'll take a fair amount of work, but the upside is that you get to be the second person to actually see SOTDS, since you will be working on it. It'd also be really nice to have another set of fresh ears listening to this.

If there's anyone that might be able to help (and doesn't have anything else on their plate), please just drop me a PM that you might be interested and we can discuss it. If it works out, I will probably send you links to...

A. A low-quality video clip of the section being worked on (there are 20 sections)
B. An "Anakin only" audio track
C. A second track, usually containing production audio
D. A track containing the new music used
E. "Everything else"

Depending on the clip, I might send you more audio tracks to give you more control over individual elements. Adywan and I worked out this system where the mixer has enough control over the audio to mix it without me having to send thousands and thousands of files.

Anyway, you would import all of this into a program like Vegas, you'd synch up the 4 or 5 audio tracks to the video file, and you'd be set to go. You'd send me a test clip, I might have a suggestion or two, and then you would render out an uncompressed stereo WAV which I would then synch to the actual MPEG.

And then we'd do the same for another section. And another section. Some sections (like section 10, the fist fight) I have already completed and will not need help on, so it's actually not 20 sections, more like 15.

And if you only have time to do a few sections, that's fine too, I'll take all the help I can get. Hopefully I will be able to get the audio completed in this way so that I can finally be done with this monster of a project.

Thanks

TM
Post
#295472
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295472/action/topic#295472
Time
Originally posted by: Marvolo
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
I think the color on Phantom Menace looks really good. I actually wasn't that impressed with the color and cinematography on the original films. The lighting looks rather flat, made worse on the 2004 dvd, and the most of the sets look rather drab and dull. Cloud city interior looks like a hospital wing, Jabba's place looks more like a dark cave than a palace. The wall on the Hoth base where 3PO pulls down the wampa sign in a deleted scene looks like molded plastic rather than a cave that was carved through ice. Even Endor doesn't seem that colorful for a forest. I know it's supposed to be a used future look but still so much seems to take place on confining corridors with either white, gray or black walls. I'm not very fond of 70's style and architecture so that might be part of it too.
When I first watched Phantom Menace in '05, I was completely blown away by the varied landscapes and vistas, detailed set design and colors that were very vibrant while still looking natural. The visual effects looked great and I think they still hold up fairly well even today. They just don't have that much resolution but I think after a certain point, trying to add more detail to CG just makes it more obvious because that just brings out the fake texture and unnatural sharpness. Ironically, I think the biggest aspect of where the prequels actually improved on the original films was not visual effects but rather set decoration and design, costumes (especially prosthetics masks) and the minature sets. It's a shame so much of II and III used blue screen.

Anyways...
I decided to try color correcting some screenshots from episode II.
I thought this shot looked pretty good to start. How was the landscape generated (if it was real world, where was it shot?) and how was the house made?
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4319/084resizewt8.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/1869/0844resizeod2.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

I don't think this correction is perfect (part of R2 becomes overexposed) but I think it gives you a good idea.
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/3935/00134resizeuy7.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/6263/001342resizene0.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

This is probably one of the better examples of the oversaturation that TM was referring to. But if you were to jack up the saturation on the image all the way, you would reveal the problem with the shot. Padme's face will look pretty much the same color as the sand she's lying in. So basically the face of someone and desert sand under broad sunlight is not able to be differentiated by the camera in regard to color. The image is also too far red shifted and fixing that makes Padme's shirt more white. I think I adjusted the contrast/midtones with the shot but not very much. I also desaturated it which was more effective with the other fixes.
http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/3369/aotcpadme156resizemr8.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/5396/aotcpadme1563resizeom4.jpg[URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL]


The Padme picture never had anything wrong with it. Why do humans automaticly associate everything to something on earth? Guess what, not everything is the same as earth. Not every planet in the galaxy is going to have the same color sun. What if the sun in the Geonosis system is a redder light? It would make everything redder. Plus, the sand on Geonosis is suppossed to be redder than sand like is on our beaches. Also, the sky of geonosis is red. This also creates the red tone. The picture of padme is right, because that is how Geonosis looks. It is very red, and is suppossed to be.



I think the issue is more that even if the sand that they photographed was actually red, it should not have looked THAT red. Also keep in mind that I am trying to do this OT-style as much as I reasonably can, which means that although exotic locations were chosen, they were filmed on Earth and the image was not unnaturally adjusted.

Knightmessenger.. those are some interesting fixes. They are certainly better than the originals. I don't know that they are enough, though.

"I'm not very fond of 70's style..."

Ah, see that's what I was trying to bring to the prequels. The 70's style of the OT movies fit in really well with the "used universe" concept, I thought. You can see this more in Star Wars and Empire than in Jedi, when things got a bit more polished. One of the things I loved about the OT, though, is that it was a combination of Golden Age filmmaking with this 70's grittiness which completely disappeared in the PT.

This is just personal taste really, but I really liked the starkness of the sets and costumes in the OT- I thought it set the mood really well and it still holds up today. Plus they stated many times they weren't trying to show off the sets and costumes- it was simply part of the world. Lucas said back in the 70's that he took a documentary style approach to shooting Star Wars. He didn't try to explain everything, show off sets and whatnot, he just threw you into the action and the story.

I see where you're coming from on some of the sets, but I thought the costumes looked great in the OT and extremely stupid in Ep. I. Amidala's wardrobe, for instance.

http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/users/01/duffy/pic42.html

Who came up with this stuff? No matter how much editing you do, you can't take that garbage out. This isn't my idea of what Star Wars should have been.

I'm sure I look at this differently than a lot of people, but I have a very distinct "classic" sense of what Star Wars should be and I think that I have created that mood as much as possible with Ep. II. It involved cutting out obviously digital characters, taking out the blatant political correctness, cutting ridiculous dialouge, bringing the music to a much more important level- I think it has become a much classer and more "classic" movie. Obviously it could be so much more if it was written and shot well, but I think that I have it in best possible form (for me, anyway). I'm reluctant to put too much work into Eps. I and III because I don't know if it's possible to do what I've done with this one. In particular, I think the clone war at the end will surprise a lot of people because I really think it feels like Star Wars now.

On the same token, I've done some things editorially that George Lucas probably would not have done even back then. Then again, so did Irvin Kershner.... I definitely left my own mark/style on this movie when I edited it together...

I hope that made some sense

----------------------------------------------------

Audio work is coming along. Still waiting on a couple voice recordings, but that's not a problem right now. Adywan is very busy right now but I just want to thank him again for helping me to complete this at the quality level I wanted it to be at. He's very busy both with this and with his own project and I have the deepest thanks for his willingness to help me out. Thank you Ady


TM
Post
#295176
Topic
Star Wars Prequels/Original Trilogy: The Complete Scores (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295176/action/topic#295176
Time
Goodmusician,

Just wanted to throw in my thanks for all these complete scores you've put together, Star Wars or otherwise. I'm a huge John Williams fan and I really appreciate it

One thing- I researched the SE mixes as well a long time ago and found that although there was the one lousy mixer, the other mixer did a much, much better job. The source went on to list the specific cues that the "good mixer" mixed. My question is... did you use the anthology for most of it (lot of tape hiss/lower fidelity), or did you utilize the well mixed cues from the SE?

Thanks

TM
Post
#295166
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/295166/action/topic#295166
Time
Saintheart,

I see what you're saying. Desaturating it makes it look like an older film taken from a faded print, while your correction maintains the vibrancy of the colors. I wish I could make it look like that.

However, I think you hit upon the problem:

"I think the problem with the colors was that the camera never picked up the full vibrancy and muddied some of the images, especially the CG and dark scenes. I just don't know how that can be fixed. With the saturation, some of the scenes probably looked a little too sweetened to cover the lack of good color vibrancy but then desaturating them reveals the lack of good subtle color pickup in the first place. "


Your LOTR fixes work because LOTR was shot well to begin with on real film. Later, they altered it by tinting the color, but this can be reversed just about as easily. Episode II was shot on digital and looks horrible. It's not even a matter of restoring the original, natural colors; like you said, I don't think they were picked up in the first place.

"I know you added a little grain but did you do anything else besides darkening and desaturation in most scenes."

Yes, I recolored some scenes. I actually added color to the interior of Kamino because it looked so phony/perfect/CG. It's mostly more subtle than the droid factory, the balcony scene, and the sunset/dusk scenes.

There are a lot of other aesthetic difference (like the impact flashes) but overall, I just got the color of the film to a point where it was watchable for me. I wish the overall image was more colorful, but I didn't get good results when I tried that and I'm wondering whether it's even possible with this movie.

"Would boosting the midtones or contrast work?"

Not really. Although it helps. Lowering the contrast or brightening the image doesn't work either- that's what MagnoliaFan did to Episode II in an attempt to improve the overall image. It's just a very difficult thing when it was shot so badly in the first place. At one point I was even considering transfering the movie to tape after this was done and then recapture it to lose the edge. But the loss in quality would be too great.

I'll continue to experiment- maybe I'll hit upon something for the next edition. This upcoming release contains the scenes as I originally colored them, although I will go back and tweak the droid factory and the balcony.

Thank you for bringing this up, though- it's an interesting issue and it hasn't really been discussed very much

---------------------

EDIT:

I thought the cinematography on Episode I was much, much better, although special effects like Jar-Jar stick out like a sore thumb. It's also tough to tell with the current DVD transfer- I think we need a new release. I would definitely give Episode I a much less radical treatment colorwise than I did Ep. II.
Post
#294895
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/294895/action/topic#294895
Time
Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
The problem is, if to me they appear more digital rather than film, it clearly isn't more OT feeling for me. I've seen episode II so I will probably recognize most color alterations. I believe an example of a not so obvious one is the "Ani, is it really you" was slightly desaturated. Even if I wasn't familar with the film, I wouldn't want any scene that screamed: color alteration! I HATE films that make you go "Ooh look, the color is unnaturally adjusted. See everything's blue to show this scene is moody and depressing." Real subtle.

Lord of the Rings took me out of the movie on the first viewing with that crap. And even though I hadn't seen Empire and Jedi in full, I knew something just wasn't right the very first time when I watched the 2004 dvd's. I strongly feel color correction is a very difficult deal and that it is very easy to make something look far worse even though you think it looks so bold and great. I'm not really referring to Trooperman here. I frequently adjust color/contrast of digital photos I take and I'm now I look back at some "enhanced" photos and think "man I did that so wrong." I saved all the original images smartly. As the X0 project has shown, proper and accurate color correction are very hard and time consuming, you can't afford to gloss over it.


This is a good point and I'll keep that in mind. I have made a lot of color alterations and there are a few scenes I want to go back to and tweak the color on- the droid factory, the balcony scene (very difficult) and the Obi-Wan/Dooku "Join me!" talk, which I think I went overboard on. The nightclub I really think has an older feel now.

I agree with what you said regarding the Lord of the Rings movies- the color correction was so, so bad on those, and it varied wildly from scene to scene, apparently to match the intended "mood". The 2004 Star Wars DVD's were also awful.

However, I feel that Ep. II is a different story. The first Star Wars shot entirely in HD, I think that radical methods were necessary to get it to feel natural. It is widely agreed upon that AOTC looked like garbage in the first place. According to cinematographer Oliver Stapleton, "when the first Digital Star Wars came out it looked so terrible that the industry was really shocked – especially after all the hype. The irony is that the next one looked OK (not great but OK), but it was too late – the damage was done by the first one."

The droid factory in particular is cited by many fans as being the worst Star Wars scene ever. With the bright, garish colors and the whole CG look to it, I'd be hard pressed to argue. So I did change that a lot, darkening and recoloring it to make it more dramatic looking but also to cover up how fake it would look were it brighter in there. Maybe it is too purple in there, maybe the contrast is too high. I can play with that. And yes, I desaturated the scene you referred to Anakin and Padme. I've pretty much desaturated the whole film because whether it was the camera that they used, or the process, or what... the saturation is just way too high (I think).

My color corrections are more to the end of making the CG less obvious and to give an older feeling to the movie than to force a "mood" upon the audience, as the Lord of the Rings films did. I hope none of the scenes in SOTDS go that far. I did change the funeral- now it happens at sunset. And the argument afterwards happens at dusk. That was definitely a creative decision- it was more dramatic to have it at sunset and I think it really improves the scene along with the new music. I've done a couple things like that, but if I could, I would have gone back to the shooting and fixed the problem there, because that's where a lot of the problems are. Practically everything's fully lit, brightly colored, and flat looking all the way through the movie. By eliminating that feeling and adding some grain to the image overall, I really think it's an improvement.

The good news is that after this comes out, if there are specific scenes that bother anyone color-wise, I can very easily go back, tweak the colors, splice it back into the master file, and it will show up in the next "release". I think as a whole, the film looks much more natural and less digital than AOTC did. I know people will realize the colors are different than AOTC- hopefully they will like this better
Post
#294728
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/294728/action/topic#294728
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
So can we take this to mean that all the video work is done?


Practically done. There were a few match cuts I screwed up that I still need to splice into the MPEG. Mace's saber during the clone war section is not entirely done. And I need to do credits, which I'll probably just do along the way. Doing too much of sabers and credits at a time makes you crazy

And I might add some more impact flashes to the clone war. But this is not significant stuff- the real "work" is done. Audio is where the focus is right now.

The content is all there as far as audio goes- every music cue, new sound effect and so on is here (I'm still missing a bit of new dialogue for minor characters), but the trick is putting all the different sourced audio together and making it sound professional and that it's all part of the same mix. For the actual film, they had multiple people on huge mixing boards with access to all the source materials. Here it's obviously a little more difficult. But with Adywan's help, it should

I do have a couple questions about mixing, if anyone can answer...

What is normalizing and how does it affect the mix?
How do you matrix four channels into a stereo mix?
During a downmix to mono, why do I lose some voices or effects that I had panned hard right or hard left? Is there a way to fix this? They just vanish, kind of like the echo in the death star chasm in SW. It's just not there.
How does dolby digital AC3 affect the mix? Does it compress things dynamically?

Obviously I don't want to blast the audience out with sound effects, but on the same token there are many points throughout the film where I really want a lot of sound/musical impact, so I don't want everything at the same level.

Basically, what volume should dialogue be in relation to the rest of the sound, more by 70's standards than modern standards?
Post
#294701
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/294701/action/topic#294701
Time
Originally posted by: Darth Richard
Oh, I'll show it to my mom. She has never seen episode II or III, or any other film with Hayden. She would never be the wiser. It would be a perfect test .


I can't wait

I'm really glad people seem to be happier with the voice. Once it's mixed correctly, I'm sure it'll be even better. I'll continue in the same way for the remainder of the recordings. Then it's just putting all of the audio elements together with Adywan and it's done.....