Easy enough. I will change it back to Jango. It's easy that way.....
Oh, wait...Nute Gunray says "Marcus" in the workprint...I'll have to go through and check if we had him record "Jango" as well.
I can't redub him because it turned out too well the first time...
Sorry, folks. Busy stretch...I will be free to work on this soon.
mrbenja0618 said:
MTHaslett said:
Is it really that simple, though, I wonder to myself. Because I saw it 4 times and enjoyed it every time... and yet.
What I liked most was that it clearly turned the SAGA into 6 films about Darth Vader. I'm one of those guys who pretty much hates ROTJ as a betrayal of everything the first two Star Wars movies got right. To me, that whole new direction Darth Vader took in ROTJ was one of the biggest disappointments in movie history. So to me, TPM was a step in the right direction and it kind of made ROTJ better because it gave this total lame ass "It's too late for me"-Darth Vader character named "Anakin" some background.
But TPM was riddled through with problems. ...Then someone created "The PHantom Edit"... Then I realized the genius of the PT was to give us fans a bunch of half-completed films so that we could have the adult pleasure of "playing Star Wars" by creating fan-edits! It's the grown-up equivalent for the fun I had with Star Wars figures as a kid.
Thank you, George Lucas, for half-assing the PT. Where would we be if you had done it better?
I agree, I enjoy fanediting, but I don't believe people should make mediocre films to satisfy our need change things.
Ideally, I would rather have the films done right in the first place so I can appreciate and enjoy them now. And TPM was a mess. I understand what you mean by backstory making ROTJ stronger, but the backstory is just riddled with back direction, and no emotion. I personally believe that if TPM had truly been the first Star Wars film, we wouldn't even be here.
Yes, fanediting is fun, but we are left with nearly impossible problems, like making Jar-Jar make sense, and dealing with badly keyed elements in AOTC. (Seriously, it was horrible.)
Of course, this is all my simple opinion, and I realize that art affects people in different ways, and that's the great part about it... But honestly, I do prefer that George put his heart into this like he did when he was younger.
Besides, The Empire Strikes back to me is a perfect movie, but yet, Adywan is making it even stronger.... Lucas could have given us the right movies and I don't think it would have killed SW fanediting. =) No disrespect though, MTHaslett.
Now, i'll stop hijacking the thread. How's it coming, TM?
It's coming OK Ben. I'm sorry for the delay...lot going on the last few days. I think we definitely need to figure out Dooku's new lines and what to do about Jar-Jar though, so I will know how to cut it. Once I finish a scene I am reluctant to go back and change the number of frames because it throws everything off. We have actors lined up for Dooku AND Jar-Jar- the question is what Dooku should say, and in the case of Jar-Jar whether he ought to be in English or some other language. I lean more toward English, if it feels right, because Jar Jar is a primary character in Episode I. The new line from Dooku was meant to illustrate that Qui-Gon really did order the clones, correct? This is a great change but it will require going through Episode I audio tracks to find all the takes of Obi-Wan saying "Qui-Gon", and dub them in over "Syphodias" everywhere the name comes up. Again, Lama-Su will be redubbed. As a side note, since Lama-Su is being redubbed, I'll take this opportunity to ask how you like the name "Marcus Fett" as opposed to "Jango Fett." I remember a couple of people saying that it was jarring, and too different because they knew the character from AOTC. How about Jacob Fett? I just don't like the sound of "Jango"...
^^That's true. It reminds me of how the Death Star is almost done in Episode 3, but becomes operational only 20 years later. Then, they build a new, fully operational one in 3 years (ROTJ). Also, how old everyone gets between Ep. III and IV (Owen, Beru, Obi-Wan), is confusing considering it had only been 20 years. If we could figure out some way to make Maul Grievous and Qui-Gon the one who ordered the clones (the latter of which will be easier), it would do a lot for the cohesiveness of the PT. Whereas before, Qui-Gon and Darth Maul had no bearing on the story after Episode I, here they would play an integral role in both Episode II and III. I especially like the idea of the clone army being Qui-Gon's fault and not just Jar-Jar's. One more thing....when Episode II is done, I plan to follow it with a quick pass through Episode III, making the dubs consistent and the major flaws corrected as well as possible. One definite change is that Grievous will be redubbed. I remember seeing ROTS on opening night and being completely distracted by how stupid his voice was. He needs a more sinister voice to make him into something other than a buffoon....
A couple thoughts on this:
1. The original version of "Phantom Menace" had Darth Maul fall down the chute in one piece. Too bad they didn't put that on the DVD....
2. I like the idea of Obi-Wan finding out about the Darth Maul=Grievous in Episode III. How I could see it working would be to redub Grievous, and have him go on one of those famous villain speeches where he spills the beans about everything before he kills (or thinks he will kill) the victim.
Still, a hint for the audience in Episode I or II would be very good....
3. Nanner Split, the original Lama-Su actor, has agreed not only to redub Lama-Su, but also to give a shot at Jar-Jar. This is good news because I know his work and I know it would fit in seamlessly with the soundtrack. He has access to good equipment.
Whether Jar-Jar ought to be in English (and with an accent, or not?), or in a foreign language is still up in the air.
This is a great conversation. We need to hammer these things out before completing Episode II.
Completing this will work now because of Mr. Ben's help.....I am so grateful for it. This is the type of project that needs someone on FX/colors who really knows what he's doing.
I can't wait for you guys to see some of Ben's new processed shots from Episode II. He has brought out realistic color and a sense of depth that I had no idea was possible from the flat looking source....
Very interesting. So, the idea is to put Darth Maul inside one of the windows in Kamino?
That would be a great idea, but wouldn't Obi-Wan do a double take after seeing that?
Might it be possible for Obi-Wan and Lama-Su to walk across the camera, and then slowly pan down to Maul on a table. Hold it for a second, and then cut away to Obi-Wan and Lama-Su again, Obi-Wan oblivious to Maul's presence?
By the way, the Maul/Grevious concept reminds me of an original series Star Trek episode, "What are Little Girls Made Of," in which Dr. Corby, injured beyond repair, tries to put his soul into a robot and something is lost...
Sluggo said:
Ok, my ears are burning. I'm happy to help once we get a line nailed down.
Great! I'm really glad to hear this. I've also heard back from Nanner Split, who dubbed Lama-Su.
He would be happy to do a new dub, but it'll be until August until he gets access to high quality equipment again.
Which leaves...Jar-Jar.
^^Wow. If it could work, that would actually make Qui-Gon really central to the whole trilogy, and would explain the clones.
^^That's a good idea which could even work with the current Sydias solution.
Palpatine: "Welcome home, Lord Tyrannus."
Dooku: "How do you do....Master SYDIAS. Hahaha...." (his laugh echoes in the hangar bay)
Then continue as scripted.
That would certainly clear things up.
Interesting idea. Would be more difficult to implement than the "Sy-dias" solution though. Unfortunately, the actor who played Lama-Su was an adolescent whose voice has completely changed over the last few years. I don't believe he recorded any lines containing the name "Qui-Gon". So either that exchange would have to be cut (which would be too bad), or Lama-Su would probably have to be redubbed. Second thing- we would need Dooku to reveal that he had been posing as Qui-Gon. Sluggo can do a spot on Christopher Lee voice (and already contributed to the project). If we could figure out what line was needed and in what scene (probably Dooku's first conversation with the captive Obi-Wan), then I could ask him about the possibility of recording it.
Erik also has a good point, that being that changing 3PO back to Anakin's droid brings the story back into line with both the official movies and with all of the other edits.
If no other edits are done in this series, trying to fit this movie with the other movies would create a glaring inconsistency.
Hey TJ! Hey Erik!
Remember that with the 3PO story, in the rough cut, 3PO stays in the ship. R2 rolls over to the panel and saves Padme from the furnace, and then we forget about him.
Replacing the original dialogue (indicating that Anakin built 3PO) would not change any of that. There is no way I am reinstating that head-swapping fiasco...
It's just a question of a good story overall. I would prefer it if everything weren't so closely-knit. Yoda knew Chewbacca. Darth Vader built C3PO. Etc. Etc.
But for the question of 3PO, I don't see an effective workaround given available footage.
Here is a tentative list of some of the big changes for this final cut. Mr. Ben is helping me on a lot of this, and I can't thank him enough....
-New color grading and better grain throughout
-There were a couple of transitions that didn't work. These are fixed.
-Boba's voice will be reverted back to the original
-A new and evenly balanced sound mix.
-Replacement of the over-familiar music cues from "Raiders", if I can find suitable replacements
-Mace's saber will be blue throughout.
-Dune and ID4 shots MAY be replaced with brand new FX (no further details yet).
-Mas Amedda's voice will be redone.
-The smoke shot after the nightclub scene and the ceiling shot at the beginning of the Dooku/Padme interrogation scenes are cut. (I was corrupting the Star Wars feel with my own preferences)
-Anakin will be completely redone. My speech is far clearer and my acting ability significantly better than it was in 2005. Additionally, I would welcome anyone else who'd like to give it a shot.
The way I'm doing the sound mix now, I've actually organized it so that swapping out actors and voice tracks will not take much time at all.
-Something will be done about the "disappearing Anakin" glitch in the Yoda/Dooku confrontation.
That's just off the top of my head. There are, of course, some other small changes.
Bad news: This isn't the only project I have going this summer. I have another one involving music, that will have an effect on my school and my early career. So when it comes down to that versus this, I have to prioritize that.
Good news: I have help now. Not to say I haven't had help before. So many have contributed to this. A user from 5 years ago ("Rebel1138) designed the opening crawl. MTHaslett reworked the love story. Sluggo contributed lots of voices. Adywan built some new FX shots.....And reading these most recent comments this year, it would really be a crime not to complete this. It will be done.
Also, I have a new computer system, a ton of hard drive space, and the new, faster Lagarith codec to work with. Before I was editing off of the native MPEG files. Extremely slow, extremely frustrating, and I was cutting it on a slow computer to begin with.
So things are looking pretty good. I don't want to promise anything, but if I can get Jar-Jar and Mas Amedda figured out (Mas Amedda only has a couple of lines), then I think Ben and I will have all of the ingredients we need to make a good final cut of this movie!
-TM
MTHaslett! Glad you are back! I always look forward to your postings. You were a major driving force behind this.
You know, I loved Owen's crack about 3PO not being able to speak Bocce, and I liked 3PO's introductory scene, but I agree that it just doesn't work.
What I want now is just for this to look as smooth and professional as possible. Innovation is fine as long as it doesn't stick out like a a sore thumb.
And with the 3PO scene and the following scene with Owen, it was a great experiment, but ultimately it's going too far because it is so far removed from what that scene originally was. Given the footage that we have, I agree that the scenes should be reverted basically back to the way they were, sans "Master Annie!" and other poor lines here and there.
Jar-Jar....I really don't know. I liked the voice in my workprint...he seems so lovably stupid...but it does not seem to blend in. We could try an alien voice, but I really want to avoid running foreign language tracks backwards if possible...it was the only weak point in MagnoliaFan's fantastic cut of Episode I.
And remember, whatever the solution is should be able to extend to Episode I. Remember that Jar-Jar is a main character in Episode I for better or worse. Could be a lot of subtitles....
VirtualDubMod gave me 3 error messages, so I used "VirtualDub MPEG2". I did a test with HuffYUV and Lagrarith, and both are in synch.
Thank you!
Yes, it is NTSC.
I went to VirtualDub in order to encode to Lagarith, HSU, etc. Is there another way?
The reason I was frameserving out of Vegas was because Vegas automatically removes the pulldown and converts to 24 frames a second....
^^ I'm still not sure that Vegas can't do YUV. Although the export options are all RGB, if you frameserve it out as AVI, you can select "YUV2".
I was frameserving to VirtualDub because I was having real problems importing the MPEG 2 straight to Virtual Dub and running into interlace problems and pulldown problems...
Thanks for the help!
I'm running into new problems though...I am frameserving the MPEG from Sony Vegas into Virtual Dub. I have tried encoding using both Lagarith and another lossless codec called MSU.
For both, I import the new file into Vegas, and slowly, the video drifts out of synch with the original MPEG. Does anyone know why this could be? Does VirtualDub not work well with frameserving as input? Thanks
Hi everybody.
I'm about to start working on my edit again, but I want to do it as efficiently as possible. After ripping a DVD to your hard drive and demuxing it, you have an MPEG-2 file. Although you're not losing any quality by working this way (obviously), I have run into some kinks in Vegas. Transitions don't always work. There are sometimes glitches in cuts.
It would be nice to be able to convert the MPEG 2 to a lossless, AVI like format made up of independent frames. I understand Huffyuv is pretty popular.
I was just wondering what some of the other editors use for this. Thanks.
My new drive crashed after a couple days. Brought it back to the store. Luckily I didn't delete anything from the old one.
I've ordered 2 new drives (different type) which arrived yesterday. So I think things will start rolling again shortly.
I think I'm going to go standard-def for now. I'll do it in such a way that if I find an HD source before I'm done, I can easily make the project HD by swapping the source out with the SD file.
-------------------------------
In order to save time, I'm also looking for some kind of lossless codec that I can convert MPEG 2 into while editing, other than uncompressed AVI....
School is busy, but going great.
Anyway, I have a much faster computer now than the antique I was using to cut the workprint, and also a much larger and faster hard drive.
I was wondering if any of you guys know where one might get access to a high def version of "Attack of the Clones"? Just for fun of course;)
Hi everyone! Summer is in the air and work on turning this into a more polished version *might* be going on at this very moment;)
-TM
TJ- Then it was the same thing as everyone else is seeing now. You and ID just got a really really advanced copy....
Regarding the technology thing, that's pretty much my problem too. There's only so many hours of sitting in front of a computer monitor and watching things not working and feeling the frustration beginning to build in you, before you start to wonder if the end product, however fun it might be, is worth all this frustration and time sitting in front of the computer.
That is why if I finish this, it will be a strategic strike- I will go in, hit the points I outlined on the last page, and try and do it as efficiently as possible. I hope it works out that way, but fan edits (especially like this one) tend to eat a lot of time.