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Tomland Flash

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14-Feb-2006
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11-Nov-2021
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Post
#195172
Topic
Info: More ANH soundmix discussion (remasters & French dub)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/195172/action/topic#195172
Time
Originally posted by: SilverWook
I'd take the info about the French mix with a grain of salt. Dolby surround has always been compatible with two channel stereo. The earliest "stereo" VHS movies and Laserdiscs have the surround info in the mix, years before surround sound was available for home use. Early home theater fanatics discovered how to use old quadraphonic stereo amps to decode them.


Jeez, didn't think I'd hear someone else mention quad decoders on these forums
I still use the largest Sansui amp as the core of my system and love it, I run everything through the quad synthesizer. Some quad fans still believe the Sansui decoders provide nicer results than the Dolby surround options on modern digital receivers.
Another interesting quality is it reveals overdubs in mixes a lot of the time, the most recent example I noticed was "Lapti Nek": the clavinet sounds all come from the rear channels. If you ever use the Sansui decoder to listen to a tv broadcast with dubbed-in dialogue (usually censorship) the dubs will shift to the rear channels, rather loudly.

One question I've been wondering re: the mono mixes, has anyone done a careful comparision between the 80's ITV broadcast and the "telecine" transfer (crawl w/o "a new hope") to determine if they are in fact identical?
Post
#187541
Topic
Info Wanted & Help: looking for... The lost footage of 2001
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/187541/action/topic#187541
Time
Re: Kubrick outtakes, storage, etc...

Sorry I don't have a link, but either Leon Vitali or Jan Harlan was interviewed a few years ago and discussed burning outtakes from Eyes Wide Shut, per Stanley's instructions. I can't remember if the destruction of footage from other films was mentioned.
It seems odd that Kubrick would single out EWS only, as the reason IIRC was that Kubrick only wanted his final vision of the film seen...so it would make sense that this would apply to the other films.
I'm not disputing what someoen said earlier in this thread about Harlan's quote, just relaying what I've read.

I used to follow the Kubrick NG pretty closely, and I don't recall a single thing about rare footage from 2001 being in collectors' hands. I think this would be far less likely than someone coming forward with a copy of a SW 70mm print, for instance.
Post
#184285
Topic
Preserving the...<em>cringe</em>...Star Wars Holiday Special (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/184285/action/topic#184285
Time

Thought I'd add this just in case it leads to a better DVD.

Years ago I contacted someone who claimed to have recorded the special themselves OTA, and was offering a VHS dub.
If anyone is interested in persuing a copy from this person, PM me and I can relay the contact information I'm aware of. I'd prefer to have just one person contact the guy, preferably someone with a nice vintage VHS machine (i.e. Panasonic 1970 or 1980, Sony 1000, Mitsubishi 80, etc...) and/or a nice TBC...or at least willing to send the tape to someone with that kind of equipment.
You should also be prepared to take a chance and politely pay for his tape without questions. I'll probably reply first to one of the people that's already provided a trilogy transfer due to their experience and proven willingness to follow through & release their work.

The reason for these "conditions" is like I said I contacted him about getting the tape sometime in the mid 90's, and after asking *one* question about the transfer process, he refused to sell the tape or answer any more questions. So if he received multiple requests for the tape with similar inquiries about the quality he may again refuse, and ruin the chances for a nice transfer to be made public.

It's likely that one of the available transfers originated from him, even if he isn't named as the person that provided the original. I also realize of course there are a lot of scammers selling the HS, but I actually have reason to believe the guy is legit. But I searched the formus and didn't see any transfer described as coming from a 1st gen source, so that's why I'm posting this, should anyone be interested in giving it a shot
Post
#183412
Topic
Discussion: Star Wars on 35mm
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/183412/action/topic#183412
Time
Mark,
Maybe these sites will help?

http://www.efilmforum.com/

http://www.35mmforum.com/forums/index.php

This one seems directed at theatre owners primarily though there are classifieds also. Another resource anyway:

http://www.bigscreenbiz.com/cgi-bin/ultimate.cgi

Here's a large page of links to anything remotely related to "film projection":

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Theater/3622/

of course there's related newsgroups too if you haven't already tried posting wanted ads there.

I wish you luck and hope I can attend a screening if you have one someday.
Post
#183392
Topic
.: The XØ Project - Laserdisc on Steroids :. (SEE FIRST POST FOR UPDATES) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/183392/action/topic#183392
Time
MeBeJedi,
I just got through reading Mark2000's thread on the ANH 35mm idea and your replies.

Is there a possibility that a film transfer would actually be superior in quality to any of your LD transfers, and if so, is the X0 team considering it for the X0 project (assuming reel 1 can be found), or would this more likely be a seperate project (if you do a transfer)?

Seperate but related issue:
I wanted to go out on a limb and offer a friendly suggestion, just in case this appeals to zion, yourself, and the other project members. IIRC I have heard comments about how ANH will require more restoration than ESB or ROTJ. Have you guys considered doing ESB and ROTJ before ANH?
The reason I ask this (apart from the possibilty of the 35mm source, if it's worthy of consideration) is I think it's reasonable to assume that you guys will make some discoveries as you go along leading to better results. If ANH can benefit the most from restoration, I think it would be great if it comes last in the restoration process and benefits the most from what you learn restoring the other 2 films.
Of course if you're already "past the point of no return" with the ANH restoration I could completely understand why you wouldn't want to start over again.
I also want to be honest and say that ANH is my fav of the 3, no hidden ulterior motives here, but maybe you guys agree with the practical advantages of doing it last regardless of which film you like best.

This is all just food for thought, and it should go without saying that I know all of the films will be spectacular after your efforts. My suggestion might sound picky, but given the meticulous efforts you guys are already making I got up the nerve to ask
Post
#182031
Topic
What scene in the (O-)OT do you hate/dislike the most?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/182031/action/topic#182031
Time
<<seriously the prequels were really missing the mystical elements that was so abundant in the dagobah scenes.>>

man do I agree.
I'd go further and say that IMHO they are missing ACTING, with the exception of McDirmiad.

When trying to figure out what was at the core of the prequels sucking (besides more obvious stuff like midichlorians and jar-jar), I thought about how much "depth" Guiness and Cushing brought to ANH, and Yoda brought to ESB. Or even Ford/Hamill/Fisher.
The more I thought about it, I came to the conclusion that for me it was acting that had left the SW universe. Whenever I watched ROTS, it seemed like I was always waiting until the FX would stop and the Emperor or Yoda would appear so something would actually "happen".

<<Jedi rocks is the worst thing in human history.>>

there are of course lots of examples to prove that Lucas has completely lost it, so to speak, but that is absolutely in the top 5 of examples, if not #1. Absolutely without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.
And I don't care about how Sy moves, but that song was cool I thought, especially if you're trying to follow up the cantina music it was a great effort.

<<I always thought "Our first catch of the day" in Empire was a terrible line. >>

<<It's not a scene, but most of the ewok-part of ROTJ is what I dislike (enjoy the least )... they feel out place and pace a lot of the time. >>

agreed to both of those comments

<<The one bit I really didn't enjoy in the original trilogy is Obi-Wan and Luke in Return of the Jedi.>>

I guess it was necessary to have the interaction (and I wouldn't ever want to go with less Alec Guiness), but he definitely could have shot it in a much more interesting/powerful way. I agree, it cheapened the "force ghost" effect.

I'd like to add that when I saw the inserted Jabba, as much as I wanted to see the new Han footage, when I saw that cartoon greyish Jabba I knew there was going to be trouble because of Lucas's CGI fetish. I didn't know anyone at the time that could relate when I tried to explain how shitty Jabba looked...especially when I tried to describe how ugly the CGI color was, but it's been very gratifying since to read the comments of others and know I wasn't alone.

and you know...I haven't seen TPM in so long I actually forgot about the abomination of yoda's appearance in that film! Only when I saw the doc again recently that shows them making yoda for AOTC was I reminded...and painful it was.
Post
#182020
Topic
questions about cropping/audio/bitrates
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/182020/action/topic#182020
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"Maybe they're waiting for X0 like the rest of the natural world "

That's because the X0 project is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural.


in that case, you may refer to me from now on as COMPLETELY SYNTHETIC.

THX,
np and thanks for clarifying again for me...it's slowly gelling in my head.
I guess I can get picky on having a "complete" image...that's one of my things I guess.
However, taking into consideration what you (or someone else?) said earlier about the screenshots not necessarily indicating the picture that's captured, and PAL vs. NTSC, etc...it did seem like the official DVD screenshots had a very marginally wider picture than any other pics. So if that's the case, I'm truly never going to have the "entire" image of the original films.
But hey, life goes on
Post
#181979
Topic
<strong>The Cowclops Transfers (a.k.a. the PCM audio DVD's, Row47 set) Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/181979/action/topic#181979
Time
TR47:
I was referring to the blank space, and then I also thought I read about there being Leia welding or Threepio line or something restored?
Could definitely have been mistake on my part or something someone else said, but either way I didn't want to spread innacurate information...I'm sorry about that.

And THX was right about my wanting earlier version due to widescreen vs. anamorphic for my old set.
Post
#181962
Topic
questions about cropping/audio/bitrates
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/181962/action/topic#181962
Time
Originally posted by: THX
Tomland,

1) Although it is important, I wouldn't worry about viewable area as much as the other picture quality issues - you'll lose more due to the overscan of your ancient TV than the difference between any of the LD caps;

THX, OK...thank you. Another misconception I apparently had was that a 4:3 widescreen transfer from the ld's wouldn't involve any "manipulation" at all by my setup...it would just "play it" like a VHS tape.



2) Both the TR47/Cowclops editions have PCM sound, I also remember hearing what Darth Mallwalker said about the clipping on v1 - I believe this was corrected on v2;

3) If you have a 4:3 TV, you definitely want a letterboxed transfer, not an anamorphised one - I'd stillrecommend the EditDroid in this category if you are in NTSC land;

OK I'm definitely shooting for letterboxed at this point. I'd ruled out a lot of transfers because of the sound not being PCM (although from what I've seen, I might pick tr47 over EditDroid just based on picture alone).

Moth3r:
About what you (and THX) have said about the sound on the tr47 set being analogue...that does make it less appealing, but if the clipping isn't too frequent I'd probably shoot for it anyway.
And that's even though I can't stand digital clipping...VERY unpleasant experience. But compressed audio for Star Wars is definitely a "last resort" in my humble opinion.

So now from what I gather, there really isn't a transfer set available that has sound digitally transferred from ld?
MeBeJedi, I know you did this but the disc(s?) you made isn't readily available.

X0, where are you when I need you?

Darth Mallwalker,
If that's true about older laserdiscs not being able to utilize optical out, that's an eye opener for me. I'd assumed any laserdisc could pass digital audio out, assuming you had a player that supported it (like any CD can pass audio through a player that has digital-out).

So I guess no one will ever have digital audio transfer from the pre-85 releases...shucks.

Grinder:
Not sure about the quality of my player...it's a Sony changer with built-in DTS decoder and 5.1 analogue outs, so I love it, but it's not audiophile I'm sure.


4) Although bitrate is limited by the size of the media, Cowclops made the point that the source material, being soft analogue SD, is easily compressed and therefore DL media is not necessary, even if you want PCM sound. However, if you want to put together the best picture and sound on one disc from those that are already out there for 4:3 NTSC, you might look into combining the EditDroid picture with the Cowclops v2 sound, although this would probably push you into needing DL media. If you're not interested in or able to do re-authoring or DL burning, get TR47/Cowclops v1 or EditDroid for the best overall quality for your set-up (assuming you're NTSC and an OT purist).


I guess at this point I'm hoping to find Rowman or Cowclops v.1 (or even v.2) for sound reasons and because I unfortunately can't re-author (though I can burn DL).
Re: re-authoring, I would think someone would have combined MeBeJedi's digital audio rip with another picture source by now, but that's just me.
Maybe they're waiting for X0 like the rest of the natural world

Thanks everyone for your help!
Post
#181338
Topic
***The MeBeJedi feedback thread ***
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/181338/action/topic#181338
Time
MeBeJedi,
I have been scanning posts/pics for hours now and from what I've read it seems like your're still working on your project.

Wanted to say that I think the color on the screenshots from your transfer looks the best of any. I also applaud your use of completely digital transfer for the audio...the only acceptable way for me, given that it's possible...I'm kind of surprised everyone isn't going this route but "to each his own".

Anyway, since you have the potential for creating one of the best (if not the best) set yet, I was wondering what you thought about including the original stereo soundtrack from one of the earlier laserdisc sets as an alternate audio source? Since you have the potential to transfer the audio digitally, this would make an outstanding release. The only thing to top it would be including the mono soundtrack as a 3rd source.

Of course, this is all dependant on having access to the alternate soundtracks, but just thought I'd mention before you complete your release in case you're interested and willing.
Regardless, I wish you the best of luck on what will be a fantastic transfer I'm sure no matter what you choose.

One last thing...I have an old tv (not 6:9) so should you decide to release a version that's not anamorphic I'd love to see it. Right now I'm opting for tr47's v.1 set because it just looks better to me.
Post
#181272
Topic
questions about cropping/audio/bitrates
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/181272/action/topic#181272
Time
Darth Richard:
Thanks for your help. I actually understood the difference before I came to the boards. The confusion stems from someone saying that the widescreen 4:3 versions would actually look better on standard tv's compared to the anamorphic, due to the down downconversion required on these older sets. This seemed to be confirmed IMO by the screenshots i.e. the first tr47 version looked slightly better to me than the screenshot from the anamorphic tr47.
So that's why I was confused and the anamorphic screenshots never seemed to look as good...at least from the pics I'd seen.


Originally posted by: zion
Welcome to the boards! Thanks for taking the time to do some research and make use of the sticky threads before posting. I wish we had more newbies like you.

zion...man thanks so much for your kind welcome and comments.
It's great to be accepted by such a fine and generous community. I tried to read up before posting...there's a hell of a lot to digest.


First:
The "viewable area" you refer to relies solely on the capture device used. Some capture cards clip more off the sides than others. I know that with my Winfast TV2000 XP card I am able to hack the settings and set my own clipping range, but most (none that I know) other capture devices don't have this ability.


OK...that explains a lot. I guess I could assume that the transfers are all capturing the "entire" image then.


Lastly:
If you don't have a widescreen television, you should consider a letterbox transfer such as either TR47/Cowclops v1.0 which has digital PCM sound, or the EditDroid transfer which in my opinion has a slightly better picture but no PCM sound. Both are excellent transfers though.

Newer transfers such as Citizen's releases are done on dual-layer media with a substantial increase in quality. Citizen's PAL DL transfer of ANH is my current favorite.


I do indeed have an ancient tv (for now...I think it's dying). But...with the number of transfers containing PCM sound being limited, my choices are going to be a lot easier anyway since I do want that feature. Of course after posting I read further and discovered the original stereo mixes have been captured from earlier laserdiscs, so now that (happy) wrench has been thrown in the works.
I really hope someone with optical ins/outs is able to combine the original stereo soundtrack PCM from earlier DVD with a widescreen image from another release.

thanks,
your ally in spirit (if not technology)

Post
#181178
Topic
questions about cropping/audio/bitrates
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/181178/action/topic#181178
Time
Hello all,
Amazing work by all involved!
I've been making my way through lots of posts, but I'm still confused on (for me) some key points.

First:
after scanning through screenshot comparisons from here:
http://www.geocities.com/m00002001/screenshot-test.htm

and the official thread:
http://www.originaltrilogy.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=9&threadid=1326

it *appears* as though tr47 project offers more viewable image than the others, which look cropped at left and/or right borders. Mebejedi is almost identical but might have just a hair less viewable image in some screenshots.

I understand more or less the difference between "widescreen" and anamorphic transfers, but don't the screen captures represent the widescreen image of anamorphic transfers after anamorphic conversion?

If I'm to believe the screenshots, this indicates that tr47/mebejedi would be "definitive" for anyone who is most concerned about a complete viewable image, regardless of image quality.

Am I completely missing something on this point?


My second question is:
Is the mebejedi the only transfer to digitally (lossless) tranfer the sound from the laserdiscs?


Third:
I guess I'm confused about the benefit of the anamorphic transfer, apart from the advantage of being able to quickly switch from full frame to 6:9 image, depending on the monitor/tv someone is using at the time.
Am I correct that the "widescreen" tranfers (i.e. v.1 of tr47 conversion) actually offer better picture quality if one doesn't have a true 6:9 monitor/tv, yet wants a widescreen image?

Lastly:
If bitrate for the conversions is only limited by size of the media (single layer vs. dual layer discs), are those doing conversions considering a dual layer version of the widescreen (non-anamorphic) transfers, again for those people that want widescreen image but don't have true widescreen monitor/tv?


Basically I'm looking for the conversion that offers digitally transferred (lossless) sound, in addition to offering the complete widescreen image (no cropping)...and beyond that, I would love to see the total capacity of a dual layer disc dedicated to maximizing the bitrate...willing to sacrifice everything else including menu in this regard.

Any feedback very much appreciated...and my compliments to everyone behind these efforts!!
Thanks so much to everyone for appreciating the original versions of these films...it's great to find people that can relate to what I've been thinking for many years now.