The Starkiller

User Group: Members
Join date: 18-Jul-2005
Last activity: 10-May-2009
Posts: 81

Post History

Post: #222948
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222948/action/topic#222948
Time: 29-Jun-2006 2:16 AM

Originally posted by: Knightmessenger
Didn't someone watching the '77 bootleg mention Obi Wan's Krayt dragon call from the mono mix is the same from the 2004 dvd?
If they did, they would be wrong.

Originally posted by: Vigo
It is there on my laserdisc and was there on my 1990 taping of Star Wars on German television. No-one to this day was able to give me the answer from what mix this music comes from, since it isn´t present on the 70mm version.

It's not from any sound mix--including mono. It's an original cue that was not used. From what I understand, it only appears in the German version. I have no idea how or why that happened.

Also, part of this music was used for the extended approach into Mos Eisley in the Special Edition.

Post: #221163
Topic: Info Wanted: The Original Trilogy on HBO TV in the 80s
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221163/action/topic#221163
Time: 23-Jun-2006 4:50 AM

Originally posted by: SilverWook
HBO allegedly used a 16mm print. Some scenes are pan and scanned differently from the video releases and shots like Luke's macrobinocular POV of the lurking Tusken Raiders are squeezed to fit the tv screen.

This version actually does appear on home video. The 1982 and 1983 laserdiscs and the 1982 CED all feature this version. I can't comment on the 16mm assertion because I really don't know, but I do think that these transfers are inferior to their VHS and subsequent laserdisc counterparts.

Post: #221162
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221162/action/topic#221162
Time: 23-Jun-2006 4:38 AM

BrianM's 70mm recording has been posted to a.b.sw. Thanks again for sharing, Brian!

Post: #221161
Topic: 1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221161/action/topic#221161
Time: 23-Jun-2006 4:34 AM

I'm very fond of the mono sound mix myself (duh!), having listened to the 'Story of' album countless times back in the day. My personal opinion is that all three sound mixes are "original" because they were all featured during the original theatrical run. But if you want to get technical, only the stereo prints (both 70mm and 35mm) were heard on opening day; the mono mix went into circulation the next month. So I don't think it's incorrect to consider only those to be original. I think it's really which version you remember best.

By the way, BrianM's 70mm recording has been posted to our favorite newsgroup.

Originally posted by: caligulathegod
Really neat from an historical perspective. Kind of a shame someone had to read the opening crawl.

I got a kick out of that myself. If you listen carefully, he is reading the crawl exactly as it is appearing on the screen and he pauses at the line breaks. The pauses match the line breaks in the pre-episode IV crawl. I thought that was great.

Post: #220066
Topic: 1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220066/action/topic#220066
Time: 19-Jun-2006 9:48 PM

Originally posted by: SKot
Still, I wonder if that trumpet and the loud, prominent sound effects are simply a matter of proximity to that particular speaker that the sound was mixed through. Hard to tell, but interesting to consider nonetheless.

--SKot

I think it's a combination of that and the fact that the 70mm 6-track is just more dynamic and features discrete channels. The content is the same, it's just presented and heard differently.

Post: #219904
Topic: .:. MoveAlong's - The Story of Star Wars .:. Complete!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219904/action/topic#219904
Time: 19-Jun-2006 5:57 AM

I just finished watching it and I must say that I'm very impressed. I've also realized what a pain it must have been to get this edited and synced together. Great job, MoveAlong. In my vast collection, this is definitely a personal favorite.

I am already anticipating Empire and Jedi, although I understand that you will wait for the official DVD release. Then again, seeing how good your Story of Star Wars turned out, that may not really be necessary.

Post: #219889
Topic: 1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219889/action/topic#219889
Time: 19-Jun-2006 3:35 AM

After listening to the entire recording, I did not hear anything unusual. The 70mm mix is apparently identical (in terms of content) to the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix as we had speculated.

The real significance of the 70mm mix is hearing it in 70mm, which, of course, is not an option. Because of this and the inherent (and unavoidable) flaws in the theater recording, and the fact that we already have the 35mm Dolby mix in high quality, I see no tangible benefit for anyone to work towards adding this recording to a DVD.

However, from an historical perspective, it is priceless. David, thanks again for providing this fantastic artifact. The fact the you actually recorded from both the left and right sides is remarkable.

Originally posted by: morgands1
BTW, I recall now, in addition to the reel change that cut off the end of Tarkin's line, a choppy print was also responsible for missing part of C-3PO's line to R2-D2 about Luke blasting him into a million pieces.
Oddly enough, Tarkin's line is completely missing from the mono mix bootleg--also thanks to the reel change.

Originally posted by: Moth3r
The main thing that I've found interesting is that many people think that the 1993 THX-certified mix on the Definitive Edition laserdiscs was primarily a downmix of the 70mm soundtrack (although the disc notes said it was created from the best elements of all 3 soundtracks). However it appears that there were new elements added to this mix. E.g the sound of the asteroids shooting past the Millenium Falcon, which I thought was from the 70mm mix, doesn't seem to be present. I would like to know how much of the 70mm mix did actually make it into the 1993 mix.

Several elements from the mono mix appear in the 1993 THX mix in addition to some new elements. As for how much of the 70mm mix was used, I'm not sure that's even relevant depending on how the THX mix was created. The same 4-track master was used to create both the original 70mm 6-track and 35mm Dolby mixes. If this master was used in the creation of the THX mix, then perhaps none of it came from the true 70mm mix, or 35mm for that matter. It would have actually come from the master that created both of those mixes.

Post: #219219
Topic: 1977 70mm soundtrack recording (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219219/action/topic#219219
Time: 16-Jun-2006 7:42 PM

Rock me, Amadeus! Thanks for posting this, RB! I would never have found it in the other forum.

I've just started listening to it. It's amazing that even in this low quality recording, you can still feel the power of the 70mm 6-track. It was truly the only way to see these films back in the day.

We were just discussing these types of recordings the other day. Thanks to David for putting it online.

Post: #216413
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216413/action/topic#216413
Time: 5-Jun-2006 6:59 PM

Originally posted by: BrianM
Ah, that is part of a great debate amongst my SD friends, one has challaged the authors facts. However the DC tape (the one I've found) is AFTER the 70mm date.

Did you use any hiss or noise reduction on your digitization?

BrianM

I suppose parts of that list could certainly be incorrect. Newspaper listings from that period could shed some light. I'm sure a 70mm presentation would have been billed as such in the movie advertisements. Whatever the case, I still think both tapes are very important.

I didn't use any sort of noise reduction on mine, but yours may benefit from it.

Were you or your wife able to record the entire film?

Post: #216399
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216399/action/topic#216399
Time: 5-Jun-2006 6:10 PM

Originally posted by: BrianM
I have one of those 70mm in theater recordings, I did one in San Diego and my wife did one in D.C. (long before we were married). She has found hers and I’m still digging for mine.

Just bought a tape deck from e-bay. My old one died years ago and I never replaced it.

Anyway, once the new deck arrives what is the best way to digitize the audio?

BrianM
Wow, this is fantastic! I knew they were out there, but I didn't expect someone to find one (or two) so fast!

As far as capuring goes, when I captured my 'Story of' cassettes, I used a cable similar to this one and ran it from my cassette deck into my sound card. There are a variety of programs you can use to record. The link Russ posted should help too.

Originally posted by: BrianM
Both are the original Star Wars, one in May of '77 and the other in early '78. Yes, they are both "snuck-in" open air recordings with the real life "Laugh Track"

BrianM

Are you absolutely certain you were both at 70mm presentations? According to this article, Star Wars first ran in 35mm in both San Diego and D.C. and was later upgraded to 70mm. The 70mm showings began Dec. 16, 1977 in D.C. and Feb. 10, 1978 in San Diego. So, the May of '77 recording may be 35mm. Do you remember what theaters you were at?

Post: #216226
Topic: Star Wars DVD Covers
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216226/action/topic#216226
Time: 5-Jun-2006 2:07 AM

Post: #216012
Topic: .:. MoveAlong's - The Story of Star Wars .:. Complete!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216012/action/topic#216012
Time: 4-Jun-2006 3:25 AM

The cover looks great! Nice job.

Post: #216010
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/216010/action/topic#216010
Time: 4-Jun-2006 3:12 AM

Originally posted by: MoveAlong
Hey Starkiller, I found another mono mix difference for you. Well, it's different on the "Story Of" LP, anyway

. Luke's line on Yavin 4 to Han "So, you got your reward and you're just leaving then?" is a different take. The LP version has Luke use a lower pitch with his phrasing. I've been meaning to mention this, but I was going over my edit tonight with a fine-tooth comb and noticed it again.
You are correct. I can't believe I missed that. I will be sure to add it to the mono mix guide. Thanks. If you find anything else, let me know.
Originally posted by: MoveAlong
Looking forward to being able to use your mono madness page. Being a mac user, the sounds have never shown up regardless of what browser I use. I'm sure others will enjoy it too.

Sorry you are having problems. I guess I was a bit naive to use WMP.

Post: #215282
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215282/action/topic#215282
Time: 1-Jun-2006 4:44 AM

Thanks for the advice, Gillean. I didn't realize there would be problems with other browsers. I just used what I was familiar with when I created it, hence the embedded WMP. I use IE6 myself, so I never saw any problems. I am working on a similar guide for the audio to The Empire Strikes Back, so I will take your advice into consideration.

Moth3r,

You know, I had your file somewhere on my hard drive when I created this thing. I had grabbed it from a.b.sw. It never even occurred to me to use it for samples. D'oh! The quality is definitely a bit better. Perhaps I will revisit it sometime. I'd actually like to replace the Dolby Stereo samples I used (from the '82 time-compressed LD) with the '85 CAV LD as well.

Post: #215242
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215242/action/topic#215242
Time: 1-Jun-2006 1:05 AM

Originally posted by: SKot
If only that elusive 70mm mix would turn up somewhere. Surely someone out there must have bootlegged a 70mm showing of the film back in the day, even just the audio?
--SKot
This is our best bet, I think. Many kids (myself included) snuck tape recorders into theaters and recorded the movies, well the audio at least. Somebody, somewhere surely did this at a 70mm presentation of Star Wars. Some friends and I did it at a 70mm showing of TESB, but that tape disappeared in the early '80s. Such tapes could be invaluable from a historical perspective, but not necessarily for preservation.

Originally posted by: SKot
By the way, I remember when I was a kid and I originally heard the klaxon on the blockade runner from The Story Of Star Wars, I thought that sound was actually the dying screams of the horrifically injured Rebel soldiers... which really gave me chills, especially after how much more graphically the novel (which I'd read previously) described that opening battle:

"A beam of intense light struck the head, sending pieces of armor, bone, and flesh flying in all directions."

"Screams of injured and dying humans--a peculiarly unrobotic sound, Threepio thought--echoed piercingly above the inorganic destruction."

I hadn't seen the movie at this point, so that's all I had to go on. Doubtful it would have made a PG rating if it had been just like the novel described it.

--SKot

That's great! It is a rather ominous sound.

Post: #215140
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215140/action/topic#215140
Time: 31-May-2006 7:12 PM

SKot,

I see what you're saying, and you're right that the 70mm mix is largely uncertain. Until an actual 70mm print surfaces (ha!) all we have are fuzzy memories and stray facts. However, I believe it to be very close to the 35mm Dolby mix.

We do know that the 70mm mix was created first, followed by the 35mm Dolby Stereo mix. These two mixes were prepared for opening day, May 25, 1977. Since they were created nearly side-by-side, I would think they would be nearly identical in terms of content. The mono mix was created a bit later, going into circulation in June of 1977. We also know from interviews that many changes were made to it--and we have the bootleg to confirm that.

A release date for the Story of Star Wars album would be helpful. I would guess it would have been summer 1977.

Originally posted by: THX
IIRC, the 70mm (6-track) mix and the 35mm stereo mix were both made from the same 4-track master and are therefore pretty similar to each other. I also recall reading that the LP was made from the mono mix, with some stereo effects added.

I believe that is correct, and it would confirm that the 70mm 6-track and 35mm Dolby Stereo mixes would be nearly identical.

Post: #215022
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/215022/action/topic#215022
Time: 31-May-2006 1:59 AM

I can't comment on how it was created because I really don't know. I would speculate that they simply stereo'd the effects.

But it is definitely the mono sound mix. Listen to the pre-Episode IV bootleg--it features the mono sound mix. The "Story of" LP is obviously much shorter than the actual movie, so it doesn't contain every scene, but it still features many of the differences. Compare the following scenes between the LP and the mono bootleg, or my mono mix web page. (Graciously hosted by our man Russs15)

-The alarm on the blockade runner
-Dice Ibegon's chirping sounds
-The sound effect when the Falcon comes out of hyperspace
-The sound of the Falcon caught in the tractor beam
-C-3PO's tractor beam line
-The comlink communication to Tarkin: "Governor Tarkin? We have an emergency alert in detention block AA-23."
-C-3PO's line: "What? Use the comlink? Oh my, I forgot, I turned it off."
-"Close the blast doors!"
-The countdown voice on the Death Star: "The rebel base will be in firing range in seven minutes." etc.
-During the Death Star battle, ship to ship transmissions aren't synthesized.

I believe these are all of the instances on the LP where a mono mix difference can be heard.

By the way, MoveAlong, I am still very much looking forward to your project. I saw the menus in the other thread and everything looks great.

Post: #214945
Topic: Info Wanted: What is the preservation project closest to the original 1977 release?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214945/action/topic#214945
Time: 30-May-2006 7:40 PM

Originally posted by: Red5

Oddly enough, there is ONE visual difference. As the stormtroopers
are distracted by the duel between Vader and Kenobi, Threepio turns
and says, "Come on, Artoo. We're going." CUT to Han who says, "Now's
our chance, go!" In the version with the mono mix, these two shots are
reversed!

http://www.cedmagic.com/featured/star-wars-lost-footage.html
This is completely false. The shots are not reversed.

Luke throwing the grappling hook twice is pure myth as well. There are still many myths involving the "original" version of Star Wars that are completely false.

Originally posted by: MoveAlong
Also, I hear people speak of the LP audio as if it's mono (or from the mono mix). It is not. It is most definitely in stereo. Dialogue and sound effects take advantage of the stereo field. Listen to Han scream as he's chasing after the stormtroopers in the Death Star or Vader coming through the door on the Tantive before he confronts Leia. Just a couple of vivid examples. This audio is seared in my brain now as I've been working on my "Story Of" project for almost 6 months. Which, by the way, is almost complete.

It most certainly is the mono mix. It may be presented in stereo, but it is the mono sound mix.

Originally posted by: SKot
Hmmm... I think you may be right. In fact, Aunt Beru's voice on the LP doesn't match the alternate voice on the mono mix version, either. But the LP does contain the full "Open the blast doors!/Close the blast doors!" line and Threepio's "a power loss at one of the terminals will allow the ship to leave" line as well. I'm going to take a wild stab and say the LP is actually based on the... 70mm mix?! Someone correct me if they think otherwise.

--SKot

Aunt Beru has only one line on the LP: "Luke, Luke!" And it does in fact match the mono mix line.

Post: #214264
Topic: 1977-->1993: What?!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214264/action/topic#214264
Time: 27-May-2006 8:29 PM

When I said the "original" voice, I meant the original dubbed voice, of course. Beru's voice was always dubbed. I figured everyone already knew that. You can compare both versions by clicking the link in my sig.

Originally posted by: Trooperman
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this, but the '97 mix (to my ear) sounds like a different recording than EITHER of the two ADR jobs. At least part of the ADR is different in the SE (presumably carried over from the 70mm?). It is definitely more similar to the stereo ADR than the mono ADR, however.

It's the same as all other home video versions. They did add an odd delay for the SE when Beru says "He has too much of his father in him." They delayed "father." I guess so it would sync better, but it sounds odd.

Post: #214084
Topic: 1977-->1993: What?!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214084/action/topic#214084
Time: 27-May-2006 2:50 AM

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw that "1993" comment by Jim Ward and knew that we'd be getting the DC masters on DVD. These most certainly are not "theatrical" versions in respect to the audio, which was remixed and remastered at that time, and in the case of Star Wars, a completely new mix was created. I guess most people aren't even aware of this, or just don't care. Personally, I don't really have a problem with the 1993 sound mix, I actually like it very much. Of course, I'd like to have more audio options, including original audio tracks, but I just don't see George ever giving us that much.

As for the crawl, I'm sure they're just splicing it in as others have already speculated. It's kind of funny, this version of Star Wars will really be a completely new version created solely for this release. Theatrical, eh?

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
The 1993 sound elements (especially Beru's voice) still trouble me greatly, though.

Why would Beru's voice trouble you? The voice heard in the '93 mix is the original voice. The alternate voice appeared only in the mono mix, which was the last of the original theatrical mixes to be released.

Post: #199853
Topic: .:. MoveAlong's - The Story of Star Wars .:. Complete!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199853/action/topic#199853
Time: 11-Apr-2006 3:54 AM

This sounds like a great project. I have been toying with the idea of a similar project myself, but I could not come up with a way for it not to be boring. There aren't enough images in the "Story Of" books to make a decent slide show. I thought about using more images from other sources, but it still felt underwhelming. Your idea of syncing the audio with the actual film is fantastic. I did not think of that. It's sort of a condensed version of Star Wars. I'm really looking forward to it!

Post: #199846
Topic: Info: the Galactic Trade Federation website
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199846/action/topic#199846
Time: 11-Apr-2006 3:45 AM

Originally posted by: Dan
One additional thing. In the mono mix, there is an additional musical que to the moss aisley cantina scene that starts before the heros enter the bar. You can hear it when 3po says, come along R2.

Dan Stokes
DDStokes@aol.com

Thanks for noticing that. I have included it in the latest update.

Post: #199843
Topic: Rad (1986) (Released)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/199843/action/topic#199843
Time: 11-Apr-2006 3:30 AM — Edited 12-Aug-2020 6:16 PM

I don’t know if anyone here will find this of interest, but this is a project I am currently working on. The 1986 BMX classic, Rad, has never been released on DVD, and who knows if it ever will be. This is not a great movie by cinematic standards, but cult classics rarely are.

I own the laserdisc which I am using as the source. The LD is not that great quality-wise, but it is certainly better than the ever-aging VHS tapes.

The final output will be a single layer DVD featuring DD 2.0 sound and MPEG 2.0 audio, animated menus and chapter selection. The film is presented in 1.33:1 full screen as that is the only way it has been released. If there is interest in this, it may find its way to a.b.dvdr.

I realize that there are many bootlegs of this film out there already. There’s certainly no shortage on ebay. But you really don’t know what you’re getting, and this is something I wanted to do for myself anyway.

***I have also noticed that Rad will be airing on INHD2 on April 17th. I don’t currently have the ability to receive, much less capture, HD programming, but if someone here does, PLEASE capture it.
http://www.inhd.com/product.jsp?prodId=37552&mp=cb2

Post: #193483
Topic: Help: looking for 'Heroes & Villians' in NTSC??
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193483/action/topic#193483
Time: 14-Mar-2006 3:58 AM

Does anyone still want my NTSC version reposted to a.b.sw?

Post: #193482
Topic: Info: the Galactic Trade Federation website
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/193482/action/topic#193482
Time: 14-Mar-2006 3:54 AM

Originally posted by: russs15
Also check out The Starkiller's Guide to the Star Wars Mono Sound Mix which is also currently on my ISP webspace. If anyone knows of anything missing from there, please let me know.

Thanks again for hosting this! And, yes, if anyone spots something that I have missed, let one of us know.