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It just doesn’t add anything substantial.
Leads up to TROS.
Plus I’d have to rewrite a whole bunch of stuff for no good reason.
To be fair, you’ve spent your time rewriting the TROS novel and now the TLJ novel.
It can be assumed that the other stormtroopers were among the few survivors.
Jannah could be.
No because presumably most or a lot of the people on the Supremacy die after the lightspeed ram.
And yet Finn, Rose, Phasma and some other stormtroopers survive. Even Knight of Kalee suggested having that trooper be the first one to turn on Phasma after Finn exposes her.
Plus, my TROS novel creates the impression that she was special forces for Pryde (and obviously he wasn’t on the Supremacy).
Novels can be changed for consistency.
Is it possible to have the trooper actually be Jannah?
[Retches so badly.]
What the actual fuck
How’s this for lesson two? I appreciate feedback here. I could also send the caretaker village stuff but most of that remains the same.
So apparently you plan to add that deleted scene (I’m aware it’s there in the actual novel, but… yeah). I personally don’t think it should be there.
In the film, without the scene, it seemed like Luke and Rey were making progress, but it comes crashing down when she finds out “what happened” and when he finds her with Ben later. And I think the following is just me, but I also kind of liked the transition from the second lesson to the FO shooting down the Resistance and think it’d be strange if we cut from the cut scene to the Resistance storyline.
Proof that they should recognize him comes from TFA. During the battle of Takodana, he is recognized as a stormtrooper by another one even though there’s no real indicator of it. Remember when the guy with the baton thingy shouts “Traitor!” at him?
He had to have been there when Finn escaped with Poe.
The problem I had with that elevator scene before is that all troopers at this point should know about the infamous FN-2187.
The FO is MASSIVE (in terms of the amount of people), of course they wouldn’t know about Finn’s betrayal.
I mean the entire scene is about Finn fighting Phasma. I guess it could work if inserted before the actual fight between them by itself.
Also, I haven’t seen that deleted scene in a while, but don’t they simply stand there when Finn spills the beans about Phasma?
It’d take focus from the point of the scene, Finn fighting the embodiment of his former enslavement by the FO. It’s Finn’s moment of accepting he is now a rebel. It’d be like putting in a random group of Jedi right in the middle of Anakin vs. Obi-Wan, then having Anakin kill them and resume his fight with Obi-Wan.
When does that happen? And she pushes Finn away because he’s defenseless again Kylo Ren, if that’s what you’re referring to.
The new crawl itself sound very weird to me. Like my brain has this very weird, very strange feeling every time I read it.
I wrote a new crawl, taking ideas from another I’ve seen on Reddit while also preserving part of a line from the Ascendant crawl. I’ve pitched it before, but let’s revisit it, shall we?
The flame of hope burns! Following the heroic sacrifice of Luke Skywalker on Crait, the daring Resistance has been reborn. The diabolical First Order, facing insurrection on a thousand worlds, is nearing collapse.
But a mysterious message has been transmitted across the known galaxy. A threat of revenge, rumored to be from someone from the wars of old, hiding within the unknown!
Determined to annihilate this threat to his failing rule, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren is chasing whispers of an ancient ARTIFACT, certain it would lead him to the very source of the broadcast…
(I’m fine with the broadcast. It displays Palpatine’s overconfidence, gives Kylo a motive for getting the Wayfinder and adds weight to the Resistance briefing scene when Palps’ survival is confirmed. And sadly, this requires removing the Fortnite broadcast addition, sorry…)
Is the “silencing” thing necessary for the edit?
but that explanation comes later in the movie, so in the actual moment it just seems strange.
It’s called retrospect. It’s like how something seems strange at first and the movie isn’t complete yet and you’re hoping for it to make sense by the end of it, but a later moment retroactively makes it better.
Regarding Kylo watching Ochi’s ship take off. I like the idea in theory, it’s an “Oh shit, they’re getting away!” kind of moment, but… why not just pull them towards himself?
Exactly. Nothing ever lasts forever. This criticism can be applied to Captain America: Civil War, Logan and Infinity War, which “undo” victories from their respective predecessors.
Eventually, the universe is going to die from heat death, but you (as in the characters, in-universe) gotta make the most of it.
EDIT: Clarified.
A friend of mine thought that making Jar Jar be revealed to really be the king of the Gungans would help to strengthen his character. His idea would work in a way that Jar Jar would suddenly turn serious and switch to a more serious voice.
I feel like Jar Jar is supposed to be an outcast. He overcomes that by becoming key to saving Naboo. Adds to Star Wars’ themes of redemption.
Insert a Sith Wayfinder or two Palpatine’s office in either Attack of the Clones or Revenge of the Sith.
What you forget is that what you said… is exactly the point of discussion. So you would understand, so I would understand. And maybe minds would change. Otherwise, discussion wouldn’t even exist.
you’re somehow fine with it in Civil War, Logan and Infinity War.
Why would you just assert that
I’ll give you a hint: people compare Rey to Anakin and Luke in “Mary Sue” discussions.
HAN: There was too much Vader in him.
LEIA: That’s why I had him train with Luke.The problem with this dialogue is that it implies that there was some inherent darkness in Ben from the beginning, while also implying that that same darkness was inherent in Anakin. It never was inherent. Anakin was an innocent who was corrupted, first by the trauma of his early life, then by Palpatine. It’s implied that Ben was maybe being telepathically corrupted by Snoke or Palpatine, but again, the movies are frustratingly vague about that, and that’s not what Han is saying here, anyway.
That’s the point. They didn’t understand Anakin/Vader. It’s only during TFA do they realize it was SNOKE.
And they overcame their mistakes. Luke even apologizes to Ben on Crait.
Luke then spends the rest of the scene taunting and trolling him. “Every word of what you just was wrong.” and “See ya around, kid,” while messing with Kylo’s head. Luke was going out of his way to get a rise out of Kylo. He wasn’t acting at all like he was genuinely sorry about Ben, or trying to reach out to him emotionally.
What was Luke supposed to do? Let Ben enter the base and destroy the Resistance there?
He has no other choice. He’s focusing Ben’s hatred towards himself so he wouldn’t even think of going into the base. It’s the thing about the dark side. Replace Luke and Ben with ROTJ Luke and ROTJ Vader and it would STILL be the same situation.
No. Ben proves Rey is valuable by showing up to save her, and his sacrifice accomplishes what Anakin could not - saving a loved one from death.
Except the whole point of RotS is that you shouldn’t cling onto loved ones after their time in the world is done. You should let go of your temporal attachments once they leave your life, and allow those you love to return to the Force. Ben resurrecting Rey through the Light Side betrays a complete misunderstanding of the themes of the saga. Cheating death and resurrection of others was established as Dark Side knowledge.
By that logic, Anakin was selfish towards Luke. He should’ve just let Palpatine killed him.
And yet Vader’s redemption spread across the galaxy anyways.
The Rebellion was much, much larger than the Resistance by the end of TLJ. Also, the ST’s handling of the legacy of the old characters is very inconsistent. Rey knows Han Solo as a famous smuggler, yet thinks that Luke Skywalker (who defeated Vader and the Emperor only 30 years ago) is a myth. Yet she somehow also knows about what happened aboard the Death Star and Anakin’s redemption. It’s sloppy writing.
Imagine growing up in a hellscape where even if someone was inclined to give her a history lesson it is doubtful as to whether or not it was backed up with historical records. And we have people on our planet who legitimately believe that, for example, the Earth is flat.
Rey refers to Luke Skywalker as a myth because that is what he is to her… a figure from legend.
And that is not even considering that Rey believed the Jedi weren’t real, not everything else that happened in the original trilogy; in fact, she never treats Han Solo as a myth when she realizes she is already meeting him in-person at that point.
yet thinks that Luke Skywalker (who defeated Vader and the Emperor only 30 years ago) is a myth. Yet she somehow also knows about what happened aboard the Death Star and Anakin’s redemption.
Do you not realize the discussion about Vader’s redemption is in an entire movie AFTER that part in TFA about “Luke being a myth”?
Also, how are Luke’s odd actions on Crait somehow more inspiring than redeeming Vader and defeating the Emperor?
Because the FO shot him down and he “survived”. Then he undermined their leader in public.
“The First Order will become a true Empire.” Kylo wants to hog Palpatine’s fleet for himself. They’re shown to be smaller than in TLJ.
That’s nothing. That’s not evidence. That’s just rhetoric.
They’re context clues for inference.
And nowhere are we shown that the First Order is smaller than it was before. You thought it was, and you’re reading that into the movie in order to make sense of it.
Compare the TROS FO with the TLJ FO fleet. Rewatch both movies.
Because the galaxy was hopeless until Luke showed up on Crait. Even Leia lost hope at that point.
Don’t give me that. The entire galaxy just gave up after Hosnian? The whole galaxy was perfectly willing to just lay down and submit to First Order rule?
First off, they had a literal gun to their heads - Starkiller. Secondly, they NEVER helped, throughout the ENTIRE saga. That was the point of the fleet scene in TROS.
Then the whole galaxy changed its mind because of some vague story from a handful of people of Luke’s actions on Crait? You hear how ridiculous this story sounds, right? It turns the entire galaxy, outside of the FO and Resistance, into some homogenous, cowardly hivemind that abandoned all hope because it needed to be taught to “believe in itself.” It’s childish storytelling.
Handful of people who are literally the ones FIGHTING the FO. The same Luke Skywalker who is “infalliable” and did the impossible (redeeming Vader). We also don’t know how long it took for it to become common knowledge, se we can INFER that it took that amount of time.
EDIT: Imagine if the Sun was right about to go supernova. We’d lose hope instantly. Suddenly some aliens show up and rescue us so our species wouldn’t die off.
He literally felt ashamed for Ben’s fall. That’s the point. He didn’t want to be reminded of that. His smuggling days were to cope with that guilt. And he overcomes it anyways.
And for years, instead of doing anything to help the woman he loved during this extremely difficult time in her life, he left her to fend for herself, just like Luke did. The idea that he spent years as an incompetent, petty criminal, feeling sad about losing the son he neglected, is pathetic for Han. It would be one thing if he had experienced a brief relapse into crime after his son’s fall, but he stayed in that lifestyle for years.
Even SEEING Leia would remind him of his failure with Ben.
Meanwhile, Leia powered through that shame and continued to be a responsible leader against the First Order. Leia acted like a responsible adult. Han did not. That’s the problem.
You do realize they’re not the same person, right? And that’s the point. Han was acting irrationally. He needed to overcome that in order to face Ben on the bridge.
Kylo killing Han was literally the thing that caused Chewie to shoot him and ignite the bombs. Had it not been for his injury, Rey would’ve lost and certainly wouldn’t have defeated Palpatine.
Ah yes, that oh-so-important gut injury that Kylo sustained. If you rewatch that fight scene, you’ll notice that Kylo’s movement in combat shows no sign of that injury hampering him whatsoever. In fact, he was winning the fight until Rey just closed her eyes and believed hard enough. The injury never plays any noticeable role in how the fight progresses.
Furthermore, Kylo wanted to train Rey and was literally told by Snoke to bring her to him alive. He didn’t want her DEAD.
Of course, given what the bowcaster did in previous scenes, it should have just killed Kylo outright, but I guess consistency isn’t cool.
Kylo is Force-sensitive. Those stormtroopers were not and couldn’t be.
It’s fucking INFERENCE. I’m looking at surrounding facts, putting two and two together and drawing a conclusion to them.
What you call “Inference,” I call “making things up to cover for the filmmaker’s mistakes.” There is 0 evidence that the fleet was there because of Luke. None.
Only AFTER Luke shows up in TLJ is the galaxy inspired.
That’s not the point. The point is that an army made the Republic become the Empire.
Holy oversimplification. You understand that a military existing doesn’t automatically transform a Republic into an Empire. It was a convergence of many different factors and crises engineered by Palpatine. The political message of the Prequels isn’t just “Having military bad.”
The Republic didn’t know how big of a threat the FO was. It’s the equivalent of a fly. To them, the FO is an annoyance. They were never attacked, and that’s the point.
If that was the case, Palpatine would’ve possessed Snoke or contacted the Kaminoans to create a new healthy clone specifically for this.
You would think so, wouldn’t you? That would be a common sense approach for Palpatine. But TRoS is a film that doesn’t operate based on pesky concepts like “logic” or “common sense.” By suggesting those ideas, you’re already thinking more deeply than the writers did.
I’m implying the Sith essence transfer ritual can’t work with Kaminoan clones or Snoke. That it’d only work with actual people such as Rey.
How do you know he DOES? And he was overconfident.
Palpatine sure seemed overconfident aboard the Death Star in RotJ. Yet TRoS makes clear that he had a contingency plan the whole time. Why couldn’t that also apply now? What gives TRoS’s ending any more finality than RotJ’s ending?
Palpatine is not that great of a planner. In fact, he had no plan set in stone. He wanted to possess Rey from childhood, but her parents abandoned her and he had to target Ben. Then Ben redeems himself, and now he has to focus on Rey again. And when the dyad unites, he realizes it’s screwing up his plans and he has to kill them. But when realizing he can suck up their life force, he does so, and there’s no longer any need for the ritual.
Even in ROTJ, he decides to kill Luke when he refuses to turn to the dark side.
Except it DOESN’T undermine Anakin and Luke’s arcs.
Anakin isn’t the Chosen One destined to destroy the Sith anymore. Rey is.
He IS the Chosen One. The movie keeps bashing you in the head that Palpatine literally died before and Anakin did bring balance. It’s just that he’s letting Rey finish the job.
Luke isn’t the restorer of the Jedi anymore. Rey is. The entire purpose of those two characters now is just to pave the way for Rey, the true savior of the Jedi and the galaxy. The entire overarching story of the saga has been reshaped to really be about Rey. She succeeded where all her predecessors failed, and you can very well bet that Rey will never be supplanted or undermined in the same way that Luke and Anakin were. I guarantee you that.
And? What’s wrong with that?
Dude, Palpatine is reinforcing that Anakin needs to do his bidding. Replace it with “We need to take a shit on my cousin’s car” and it would still retain the meaning.
What?
It’s abundantly clear through basic interpretation of the text that Palpatine is referring to Plagueis as “the one with the power to cheat death.” Do you think Palpatine is referring to himself as the cheater of death? Then why does he say “but if we work together, we can discover the secret”? Notice the use of “We” in that sentence. And the word “but” implies that Palpatine is not the Death Cheater he was referring to, and that it’s something they will seek together.
I never said Palpatine DID know how to keep himself alive by the time of ROTS, just that he wants to know how to keep himself alive. And again, he CAN’T be referring to saving Padme. Notice how Anakin DOESN’T get upset with him for “revealing the truth”. This implies Palpatine is referring to keeping himself and Vader alive.
Dude, the literal reason she sent Ben to Luke was because she saw him as another Vader. She overcomes this when training Rey, whom she knew as Palps’ grandkid.
This is never said in the movies.
Can’t remember the exact dialogue, but…
HAN: There was too much Vader in him.
LEIA: That’s why I had him train with Luke.
Ben also felt betrayed by Han and Luke, as established in TFA and TLJ, respectively.
You know what I was saying about how the ST made the OT heroes into bad people and failures? This is partly why. Leia, Han, and Luke apparently did such a terrible job of raising Ben that he sees himself as a victim of their mistreatment. ST Luke and ST Han are horrible people.
And they overcame their mistakes. Luke even apologizes to Ben on Crait.
Ben is making up for his mistakes and loves Rey. He had no idea resurrecting her would kill him. By your logic, Vader had no agency when saving Luke from Palps.
Except Anakin killed Palpatine, thereby saving the galaxy and destroying the Sith. Kylo didn’t do squat except give Palpatine access to that precious Force Dyad, then revive Rey. He could have been completely removed from the climax of the film.
No. Ben proves Rey is valuable by showing up to save her, and his sacrifice accomplishes what Anakin could not - saving a loved one from death.
Why?
Because there’s no rhyme or reason to what happened on Crait from an observer’s perspective. Kylo swings his saber at Luke for a while. Luke dodges. Luke turns out to be an apparition or something, then vanishes. And most people won’t even know that Luke died, so it’s barely even an heroic act, from their perspective. It would just be seen as strange by most people.
Except the FO shot down Luke and he “survived” anyways. He’s “invincible” compared to the FO. That’s what the galaxy sees Luke as - an infalliable legendary hero who’s perfect and invincible.
To undermine him and mock him. It’s like kids mocking their parents behind their backs.
Wow, what an intimidating faction. I can totally take them seriously as villains.
How does this ruin their intimidation?
And?
And the galaxy’s freaking huge! A shipful of people can’t spread a story like that across thousands of planets. The scale of this world is simply too enormous for that to happen.
And yet Vader’s redemption spread across the galaxy anyways.
Again, the FO is not doing well. And we literally see them standing up at the end of TROS.
You keep saying they’re not doing well, yet have no real evidence for it.
“The First Order will become a true Empire.” Kylo wants to hog Palpatine’s fleet for himself. They’re shown to be smaller than in TLJ.
And what took those people so long to stand up? Why did they ignore the call for help on Crait?
Because the galaxy was hopeless until Luke showed up on Crait. Even Leia lost hope at that point.
FUCKING SUBJECTIVE.
The Resistance is freaking boring, dude. And the new characters are flat and poorly written. It’s as simple as that.
Care to elaborate?
Han NEVER abandoned his family.
What movie were you watching? Han and Leia are basically divorced, and Han left Leia to go off and play at being a smuggler again, while she was left alone to fight off their son’s regime with her tiny army. Luke had just abandoned her, then Han abandoned her too, when she needed support the most. Han. Abandoned. His family.
He literally felt ashamed for Ben’s fall. That’s the point. He didn’t want to be reminded of that. His smuggling days were to cope with that guilt. And he overcomes it anyways.
Again, it allowed the Resistance to destroy Starkiller. D’Qar would’ve been destroyed had it not been for Han.
He had already done that. Facing Kylo was needless for that goal.
Kylo killing Han was literally the thing that caused Chewie to shoot him and ignite the bombs. Had it not been for his injury, Rey would’ve lost and certainly wouldn’t have defeated Palpatine.
And his actions inspired the galaxy anyway.
At no point is it said that the fleet attacking Exegol was there because they were “inspired by Luke.” That’s just conjecture on your part.
It’s fucking INFERENCE. I’m looking at surrounding facts, putting two and two together and drawing a conclusion to them.
The Trade Federation in TPM and the Separatists pre-clones in AOTC say otherwise.
The Trade Federation was still considered a legitimate business within the Republic during TPM.
They were the ones invading Naboo and who have the droid army.
And as soon as the CIS was formed, the question of forming an army to counter them was quickly raised. Because of the emergency nature of the situation, it made sense to use a clone army that had already been produced rather than raising one manually from member planets. The whole point of Palpatine engineering the founding of the CIS was to place the Republic in a no-win situation, where they had to militarize, but in doing so, they accepted the Clone Army, which was created under shady circumstances and ultimately answered only to Palpatine. That was the source of the downfall. Having a recruited self-defense force is not comparable to that.
That’s not the point. The point is that an army made the Republic become the Empire.
Dude, Palpatine has NO OTHER CLONES BY TROS, and Rey killed him for good but NOT IN HATRED. And if they DO bring him back post-TROS, it WOULD undermine Rey’s arc (that’s fo’ anotha’ discussion, too). Lucasfilm wouldn’t want to do that.
As far as we know, Palpatine doesn’t need a clone, just any new body.
If that was the case, Palpatine would’ve possessed Snoke or contacted the Kaminoans to create a new healthy clone specifically for this.
And how do we know he doesn’t have another secret clone planet somewhere else?
How do you know he DOES? And he was overconfident.
Anakin killed Palpatine out of love for his son. Shouldn’t that have been enough, then?
Oh, of course. God forbid we undermine Rey’s arc. Undermining Anakin’s and Luke’s arcs is totally fine, though.
Except it DOESN’T undermine Anakin and Luke’s arcs.
Dude, “cheat death” refers to keeping yourself alive. Look it up. And he CAN’T be referring to Anakin wanting to save Padme. Otherwise Anakin would be upset that Palps lied to him about knowing how to save Padme.
Let’s revisit the scene:
“Just help me save Padme’s life. I can’t live without her.”
“To cheat death is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret.”
He’s CLEARLY talking about cheating Padme’s death. And yeah, Anakin should have been mad at Palpatine for misleading him about it, but no one said the dialogue in RotS was perfect.
And Palpatine obviously isn’t referring to himself here when he mentions the “only one,” so by process of elimination, he’s talking about Plagueis. That’s the only person he could be referring to.
Dude, Palpatine is reinforcing that Anakin needs to do his bidding. Replace it with “We need to take a shit on my cousin’s car” and it would still retain the meaning.
?
It haunting him forever is not a failure. It leads to his redemption.
As I said. Purely in service to Kylo’s arc. Han was not sacrificing himself for his son’s sake. He was trying to bring his son back with him. Han is discarded so that his death can be just another part of Kylo’s journey as a character.
And yet it allowed the Resistance to destroy Starkiller.
What was Luke supposed to do? If he showed up on Crait, the FO would’ve annihilated him immediately.
It was a choice between possibly dying by going to Crait himself, or definitely dying by projecting himself there.
Are you kidding? Ben realizes that Leia really did love him. And it was the Han hallucination that redeemed him.
Did she raise him in a way that Ben didn’t know that? What you’re describing is just headcanon.
Dude, the literal reason she sent Ben to Luke was because she saw him as another Vader. She overcomes this when training Rey, whom she knew as Palps’ grandkid.
Ben also felt betrayed by Han and Luke, as established in TFA and TLJ, respectively.
She literally just says his name.
Why else would Kylo stop there?
And of course, the idea of Ben hallucinating his father forgiving him is laughable.
Subjective.
Saving Rey from becoming Palpatine’s vessel, reminding her she is valuable (fo’ anotha’ discussion…) and allowing the future heir to the Skywalkers’ legacy and future trainer of Jedi to live on is not doing nothing.
Why is her life more valuable than his? All Ben amounts to in the end is just a lifeline for Rey. He has no agency as a hero beyond this. He doesn’t even have dialogue!
Ben is making up for his mistakes and loves Rey. He had no idea resurrecting her would kill him. By your logic, Vader had no agency when saving Luke from Palps.
Luke became a legend post-RotJ because him redeeming Darth Vader - the most hated man in the galaxy - broke the galaxy’s expectations. The galaxy thought he was infalliable. Him standing up to the FO, being “invincible” from their laser blasts and humiliating the Supreme Leader in front of his own troops is why the galaxy renewed hope.
They had to have received this info from either the Resistance or the FO troops whose leader was publicly humiliated.
To someone unfamiliar with the concept of Force projection, the encounter would be completely nonsensical.
Why?
And why would First Order troops spread a story in a way that humiliated their leader?
To undermine him and mock him. It’s like kids mocking their parents behind their backs.
The Resistance would try to spread it, but they’re just a shipful of people at that point.
And?
Ah, yes, as if making up for your mistakes isn’t a concept that exists.
Except he didn’t. He did the bare minimum of what should have been expected him. He fixed nothing. He just stopped things from getting any worse after the situation had already fatally deteriorated.
They didn’t know where Exegol was. THAT’S THE POINT OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.
Why weren’t they fighting the First Order all this time? An absurdly large fleet like that could have destroyed the FO decisively during TLJ. And if they were fighting, then clearly the “Resistance” we’ve been following is just a sideshow compared to the real war going on offscreen.
Again, the FO is not doing well. And we literally see them standing up at the end of TROS.
Because they are the focus of the ST. Because they are the ones we have a connection to.
If the only reason to focus on them is because of the audience’s personal connection to them, then I’d say the movies fail, because I never felt a connection to those characters, nor is the Resistance an interesting faction to watch. All of the interesting stuff was apparently happening offscreen.
FUCKING SUBJECTIVE.
I’ve already told you that the FO isn’t doing too well. It’s literally Kylo’s motivation.
That’s your headcanon. You’re thinking about this more than JJ Abrams did.
Reread my posts. They’re backed by in-movie evidence.
Again, the old ones overcame their mistakes.
The mistakes that were made up offscreen in order for the ST to take place. And no, they didn’t overcome them. Han was still a smuggler who abandoned his family
Han NEVER abandoned his family. He and Leia went to deal with the guilt of losing Ben in their own separate ways. They say as much in TFA. It’s just he didn’t want to face Ben because he was blinded by guilt.
then got killed when he tried to reconnect with them.
Again, it allowed the Resistance to destroy Starkiller. D’Qar would’ve been destroyed had it not been for Han.
Luke was still a callous fool who abandoned the galaxy to the Dark Side, then died giving a diversion after most of the Resistance was already killed and the villains had basically won.
And his actions inspired the galaxy anyway.
They’d rather avoid becoming another Empire.
The PT-era Republic didn’t have a bloodthirsty Empire breathing down its shoulder, clearly intending to destroy it. If they did, some sort of defense force made of recruits from different member worlds would have been a given.
The Trade Federation in TPM and the Separatists pre-clones in AOTC say otherwise.
And when the Old Republic did have an outside, hostile Empire invading it during the KOTOR and SWTOR era, of course they had a military, because they weren’t fools.
THAT undermines the PT. And THAT’S no longer canon, too.
NO, HOW Palps survived is NOT a huge plot point. If it were, TROS would be another mystery-themed story like Gravity Falls.
It’s a freaking MASSIVE plot point. It has enormous repercussions for the story of the ST and the saga as a whole, and for the future of the setting since Palpatine could easily just return again. Just glossing over it and expecting the audience to not ask questions about it is ridiculous and insulting. You don’t even need to spend that much time on it. Just don’t beat around the bush with words like “Somehow”. Put some thought into it, and tell us how it happened.
Dude, Palpatine has NO OTHER CLONES BY TROS, and Rey killed him for good but NOT IN HATRED. And if they DO bring him back post-TROS, it WOULD undermine Rey’s arc (that’s fo’ anotha’ discussion, too). Lucasfilm wouldn’t want to do that.
Dude, Palpatine literally explains to Anakin that Plagueis couldn’t cheat death but could only save others.
That counts as “cheating death.” It’s just clunky dialogue. Who do you think he’s talking about? Who else would it be?
Dude, “cheat death” refers to keeping yourself alive. Look it up. And he CAN’T be referring to Anakin wanting to save Padme. Otherwise Anakin would be upset that Palps lied to him about knowing how to save Padme.
I’m saying Palpatine didn’t reclaim the galaxy in the ST.
He did. The First Order was essentially a puppet state to Palpatine, and the First Order effectively controlled the galaxy, so yes, he did.
“The FO was just the beginning” is vague. The line immediately precedes his offer to give Kylo “so much more”.
They prevented the complete takeover in TROS.
The takeover had already happened. The First Order was already in power.
I’m saying it wasn’t complete.
And yet the OT heroes DO overcome their failures. Luke becomes the legend he was meant to be and allows the galaxy to rise up on Exegol and defeat the FO across the galaxy. The Republic is inherently flawed, so the galaxy >cooperates in TROS.
Han dies a failure. His death is purely in service to Kylo’s arc.
It haunting him forever is not a failure. It leads to his redemption.
Luke commits suicide by trolling his nephew from a remote location.
What was Luke supposed to do? If he showed up on Crait, the FO would’ve annihilated him immediately.
Leia dies to send a message to Ben that somehow redeems him
Are you kidding? Ben realizes that Leia really did love him. And it was the Han hallucination that redeemed him.
and Ben then proceeds to contribute nothing for the rest of the film besides reviving Rey.
Saving Rey from becoming Palpatine’s vessel, reminding her she is valuable (fo’ anotha’ discussion…) and allowing the future heir to the Skywalkers’ legacy and future trainer of Jedi to live on is not doing nothing.
The “legend” of Luke’s actions on Crait is ridiculous. How did the story spread? How would people even make sense of what happened there? Luke taunts Kylo, then disappears. This action is just the bare minimum to keep the Resistance alive, which Luke should have been helping from the start.
Luke became a legend post-RotJ because him redeeming Darth Vader - the most hated man in the galaxy - broke the galaxy’s expectations. The galaxy thought he was infalliable. Him standing up to the FO, being “invincible” from their laser blasts and humiliating the Supreme Leader in front of his own troops is why the galaxy renewed hope.
They had to have received this info from either the Resistance or the FO troops whose leader was publicly humiliated.
It does not excuse his abandonment of his family and the galaxy in the hands of a monster he helped create.
Ah, yes, as if making up for your mistakes isn’t a concept that exists.
And why do the people of the galaxy only show up to help when Lando convinces them? Were they already organized and ready to fight?
They didn’t know where Exegol was. THAT’S THE POINT OF THE ENTIRE MOVIE.
If so, why weren’t we following that resistance instead of this little measly one.
Because they are the focus of the ST. Because they are the ones we have a connection to.
Or did they just wait a year after Luke’s death for no reason?
I’ve already told you that the FO isn’t doing too well. It’s literally Kylo’s motivation.
And? What’s wrong with paving the way for new heroes?
Paving the way for new heroes shouldn’t come at the needless expense of the old heroes. That’s bad storytelling.
Again, the old ones overcame their mistakes.
Reread my point: “It’s just that they refused to militarize because they became the Empire because they militarized in AotC. Remember, they had no military before AotC. They inferred that demilitarizing would make sure >they never become another Empire.”
Except the Republic knows that the Empire still exists, is still out there somewhere gathering strength, and is still entirely hostile. When there is a large, looming hostile faction beyond your borders that fully intends to reclaim its territory from you and destroy you, total demilitarization is suicide.
They’d rather avoid becoming another Empire.
Dude, they imply he’s survived death in ROTJ, backed by ROTJ literally showing us that he did blow up twice.
It doesn’t matter what you thought they were “implying.” Implying is not explaining.
How is implying not explaining? They’re giving us information without explicitly telling us that.
Throwaway lines aren’t enough for a huge plot point like this.
NO, HOW Palps survived is NOT a huge plot point. If it were, TROS would be another mystery-themed story like Gravity Falls. And did you really expect 10 minutes of prequel-level exposition?
Do you really think “To cheat death is an ability only one had achieved, but if we work together, I know we can >discover the secret” referred to Plagueis?
Yes. That’s right.
Dude, Palpatine literally explains to Anakin that Plagueis couldn’t cheat death but could only save others.
Finn would’ve died for nothing. He wouldn’t have destroyed the cannon. Rose kept him alive and reminded him that there’s something else worth fighting for.