TestingOutTheTest

sherlockpotter said:

Huh, I just re-watched the scene and you’re right, the sun is just peeking over the horizon at that moment. So, at what time of day does the scene actually take place? I guess it’s right before sunset?

Granted, the two suns are only visible in one shot in TLJ; every other time, it seems like a uniform light source. I honestly thought it was just a clever metaphor until I looked it up just now. If more effort wants to go into coloring that scene, I guess it should just be about what feels most natural, rather than trying to chart two different stars across the sky.

Two, actually. The establishing shot of the sunrise before we cut to Rey awakening, and Luke’s final moment.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

Kylo Ren not reforging the mask misses the point. In TLJ, when he becomes the Supreme Leader he learns from his failures in order to avoid repeating them; at first he wanted the past to die, but then realizes it’s a terrible idea after Rey rejects his offer. Him reforging the mask further solidifies his growth as a character from TLJ and reinforces the “learning from failure” message.

As far as a fan edit of the film goes, I agree that the mask must stay for obvious reasons. However, I’m interested to see this change because this project is in text form.

I personally feel like Kylo doesn’t learn from his failures in TLJ because he is the antagonist. Luke does, while he doesn’t (and suffers as a result).

In order to explain why Kylo reforges his mask in TROS, you kinda have to embrace the idea that he is still trying to let the past die, at least in my opinion. Vader was a separate person figuratively speaking from Anakin, and he tried and failed to erase all pieces of Anakin’s past. This is what Kylo realizes following his grandfather means in TLJ - eliminating all ties to his previous persona, Ben Solo. It was likely Ben Solo who childishly thought wearing a mask would make him more like his grandfather. So he only reforges it once he feels worthy enough to wear it again, as in he feels he has destroyed enough of his past.

Then why the hell does he stop letting the past die in TLJ? At first he wanted to rule with Rey and create something new, destroying the Jedi, Sith, Rebels, etc., but she rejects him and he just decides to become Supreme Leader of the First Order. Because he’s learned from his failures. He’s learned that letting the past die is a BAD idea.

That’s growth.

Kylo Ren not reforging the mask misses the point. In TLJ, when he becomes the Supreme Leader he learns from his failures in order to avoid repeating them; at first he wanted the past to die, but then realizes it’s a terrible idea after Rey rejects his offer. Him reforging the mask further solidifies his growth as a character from TLJ and reinforces the “learning from failure” message.

When is Darth Vader seen with a TV?

So you guys are apparently discussing an idea of Rey turning to see the children watching a puppet show of Luke’s actions in TLJ; I disagree with this. Why, you may ask?

The point of the scene with the Aki Aki children is to establish the stakes for the movie, to drive home our connection with the galaxy (especially in the context of this film alone) and show what the heroes are really fighting for; reducing it to a payoff of the events of TLJ undermines that.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Movies Remastered said:

but I’ve had a lot of complaints from people saying I’ve used the wrong ships. If anyone knows of any better footage of Palps fleet then please let me know…

Pretty sure if we’re going to use those shots then Hal (and myself) would actually want them to be First Order Star Destroyers, not Palpy’s. A part of the reason for removing Kijimi’s destruction is that it makes no sense that an individual Final Order Star Destroyer was able to take off without the rest so effortlessly.

Furthermore, Palpatine tells Kylo he will only receive his ships once he does as he asks (“Kill the girl”). So why would he give the First Order access to some of his ships immediately after saying that? Doesn’t make much sense.

Palpatine changed his mind after he found out that Kylo Ren was redeemed. (“The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plans, but her foolish act will be in vain.”)

GMatias said:

I know we have shots of Star Destroyers blowing up after the Exegol battle (both from the theatrical version locates and some fanedit extras), but are there, or did anyone do shots of those ships arriving at those locations? I swear I thought someone did but I can’t find them anywhere. Am I imagining that?

I believe Movies Remastered did an edit of Star Destroyers showing up to deliver Palpatine’s broadcast?

Jar Jar Bricks said:

sherlockpotter said:

I guess I’m still confused about Palpy flip-flopping between wanting Rey as a child, giving up trying to find her, deciding to kill her, and then going back to finding Rey after Ben turns.

Note: Edited this comment to reflect what I believe Hal is going for.
Palpatine’s plan in the edit we’re creating:

1. Palpatine sends Ochi to track down and kill Rey because he “saw what [she] would become” (a powerful Jedi), but her parents won’t reveal her location. Ochi kills them as he feels they no longer serve any purpose.
2. Palpatine puts all of his efforts into corrupting Ben Solo for an essence transfer.
3. Palpatine wants Snoke to have Kylo kill Rey because he is using only Kylo. Kylo resists.
4. He had already put a ton of effort into corrupting Kylo, so yet again he tells him on Exegol to kill Rey. This is the task which will prove whether or not he is a worthy vessel.
5. Kylo realigns himself with the light, and Palpatine senses it. His new goal is to corrupt Rey and essence transfer into her.
6. She refuses. Then he discovers he can drain their dyad to restore his full strength.

It’s really complicated, but at least it (mostly) makes sense.

Why remove the part where Palpatine wants to get Rey as a child because he knows she’ll grow up to perform the Sith ritual? When her parents refuse to reveal her location and are killed, this is when Palpatine gives up on Rey for his Sith ritual altogether and turns to Ben Solo.

Please don’t remove the “I never wanted you dead, I wanted you here”. It reinforces how Palpatine is manipulative and a liar.

BrotherOfSasquatch said:

TestingOutTheTest said:

How many times do I have to say this? It’s clear in the actual film Palpatine changes his mind and turns back to Rey because Kylo Ren redeemed himself. His plan was to possess Kylo Ren, that is until he redeemed himself.

Chill out, man. I honestly don’t get why you’ve been so defensive about this in this thread and lashing out against people.

I’m not lashing out, I’m just correcting them. Sorry if I come across as that way.

How many times do I have to say this? It’s clear in the actual film Palpatine changes his mind and turns back to Rey because Kylo Ren redeemed himself. His plan was to possess Kylo Ren, that is until he redeemed himself.

Since that’s the case, try rewriting TPM within the constraints of AotC and RotS, or AotC within the constraints of TPM and RotS, something like that.

jarbear said:

It would have been nice if the palpy and pryde scene was longer and could have had palpy day something like “kylo has betrayed me/ no longer part of plan / etc and it’s time for plan b.” Something like that would have been nice or at least connect some dots.

But I agree removing those lines helps.

Palpatine already says, “The Princess of Alderaan has disrupted my plans, but her foolish act will be in vain.”

Neerb said:

Uh… two is better than one? I guess?

TestingOutTheTest suggested keeping the “lifeforce of your bond” thing in, which sounds just as handwavy as a Dyad without distracting us with proper nouns. If Palpatine was Snoke, then Snoke giving them a bond could be a long-game setup (in story payoff, not literal planning) for Palpatine to drink that bond up. Would just need to lessen/cut out Palp’s surprise when it happens, along with Kylo saying in the hangar that Palps doesn’t know.

How many times do I have to say this? Snoke and Palpatine aren’t the same individual; yes, Snoke listens to Palpatine, but it isn’t like he is some sort of VR avatar Palpatine controls.

Why do you guys keep missing the point, regarding Palpatine’s plans in the film?

He wanted Rey to kill him at first, but her parents hid her away and now he doesn’t know where she is, so he decides to groom the descendant of the Skywalkers instead; he decides to have Kylo Ren kill Rey, believing she is no longer of any use to him. When Kylo Ren fails to kill Rey and turns to the light, Palpatine changes his mind and falls back to his original plan to have Rey kill him.

Regarding the dyad, there’s one idea I had to help remove it to preserve Snoke bridging Rey and Kylo’s minds, trim Palpatine’s line to just “The life force of your bond… restores the one true Emperor.”

theprequelsrule said:

Servii said:

I like what you’re doing here. It looks like you’re creating a chronology using the OT as your basis. It’s a neat idea.

Thanks! I am perfectly willing to use good ideas from the Legends and even (dear God) the PT as long as they don’t contradict the OT. As an example; I certainly like the idea of powerful quasi-military organizations (such as The Trade Federation) developing towards the end of the Old Republic.

Says the guy whose username is “theprequelsrule”.

KumoNin said:

You know what my understanding of it was ever since I saw that “dagger outlining the death star wreckage” moment in a theater?

There is the implication that it is an ancient sith dagger. There is the fact that it is completely ridiculous even by TROS standards that whoever made it would go all the way to the wreckage and shape the dagger the way the wreckage is shaped from that angle. There is the fact that Star Wars is mythical and has prophecies and premonitions and other such fantasy stuff.

So I have always just assumed (I don’t know what canon has to say), that it is ancient and the stars alligned that way because something something in-universe poetry, something something the force. It was never a logistics problem. For that matter, why did Palpatine store his pyramid macguffin in a side room on the death star throne room? That moment was also surreal to me. Perhaps he planned to rule from the death star going forward, instead of Coruscant? But anyway, out of all “wait what?” moments in TROS, the dagger-wreckage one is at least pretty neat. And also I like the idea that it was constructed long before the death star.

Except the dagger was clearly made after RotJ, why else would it match with the Death Star wreckage?

Rey has no connection to Anakin.

CaptainFaraday said:

Plus, I don’t actually hate the Goonies-style “line up the dagger” thing as a concept. It is dumb that Rey just stands in an arbitrary spot anywhere on a kilometres-long shoreline for it to work, though, and my idea is to add a specific marker that she has to stand on and line the dagger up with, like the medallion in Raiders of the Lost Ark.

It certainly don’t make no sense, though, that’s for sure. I’ve spent longer thinking about it than Terrio or Abrams probably did.

Why do people forget that C-3PO told them where to stand?

CaptainFaraday said:

I’m really confused about the Sith Dagger, and need to figure it out before I can comfortably edit the parts related to it.

Ochi of Bestoon has the Sith Dagger. It’s referred to as an ancient Sith artefact, and he’s explicitly described as a collector of ancient Sith artefacts. He also used it to murder Rey’s parents on Palpatine’s orders, prior to Palpatine’s death.

But: the dagger couldn’t have been made any earlier than the destruction of the Second Death Star, because its shape relates to the shape of the fallen wreckage on the horizon, to reveal the location of the wayfinder.

• How can it be ancient and also less than thirty years old?
• Who made it, and why?
• If Palpatine didn’t make it, because he was dead, who else knew the location of the wayfinder?
• Why make a map dagger to begin with, instead of just taking the wayfinder? And if you want to leave it where it is, why would you make a map for other people to find it and take it?
• When did Ochi kill Rey’s parents, if Palpatine gave the order but was also dead before then? (Rey is younger than Kylo, who was canonically conceived just after the Battle of Endor.)
• How did the Sith Dagger go from whoever made it to Ochi of Bestoon?

The more I think about it, the more confused I get.

Unless you’re referring to the novel, there was no indication in the film that the dagger was ancient.

I am against a “Rey nobody” edit; it would undermine her trilogy-spanning arc of overcoming her subconscious and irrational core belief that she is inherently worthless.

The whole point of Rey being Palpatine’s granddaughter is to reinforce her subconscious, irrational core belief that she is worthless, she becomes convinced that her lineage is the reason she is falling to the dark side and committing sins like unleashing Force lightning onto the transport and stabbing Kylo Ren in the chest with the very lightsaber he used to kill Han.

After she was abandoned by her parents, she subconsciously developed this irrational core belief that she is worthless, she subconsciously hates herself (she doesn’t actively hate herself, it’s a subconscious thing), she believes this lie that the only way to feel happy, to feel loved is if she gains love and worth from others as well as if she pleases others which would then result in said others giving her the love and worth she desires to make her feel happy; it is for this very reason she frees BB-8 from Teedo, why she bypasses the compressor on the Falcon, and why she tells Luke that she would not fail him in the way Kylo Ren did. She is essentially one who leeches off of others to give her the love and worth she wants.

After Rey gives into the dark side and mortally wounds Kylo Ren, as I stated, she becomes convinced that her lineage is the reason she is falling to the dark side, so she exiles herself because if she falls to the dark side she’ll make things worse for others instead of pleasing them, she’ll never get the love and worth she wants. She thinks that being Palpatine’s granddaughter inherently makes her even more worthless… that is, until Luke shows up and gives her a pep talk that just because she is Palpatine’s granddaughter doesn’t mean she is inherently worthless (for example, Leia knew of her lineage and yet still trained her regardless of her lineage, because she saw the spark or whatever in her).

She heads to the Sith Citadel on Exegol (the Citadel represents the subconscious and hidden part of her mind) to confront Palpatine and end the Sith for good, but he convinces her to kill him so she would become Empress and have control over his forces who are endangering her loved ones, her found family, if she refuses her loved ones, her found family, would be killed off; she accepts, knowing that if she becomes Empress and prevents the Final Order from killing her loved ones, her found family, she would obtain that worth for as long as she lives her life as Empress. Suddenly, Ben Solo, the one person whom she has had a close connection to through the Force for a long time, comes backs for her, showing her that he truly cared about her, that she is valuable, regardless of whether she becomes Empress or not; this allows her to refuse the ritual and stand against Palpatine. However, he then drains most of her and Ben’s dyad life energy (symbolic of how low self-esteem drains one of life and happiness) and gets rid of the one person who has showed Rey that she is valuable, leaving her all alone once more in the darkness; that is… until she calls out to the Jedi of the past, then all of them respond and convince her that she isn’t alone, that she is capable of rising, etc. This convinces her to refuse the lie she believed her entire life, that she is worthless, that she can only feel worth something if others give her their love, so she finally faces against Palpatine. He spits at her about how she is nothing and how she is unable to stand against him; she ignores his remarks and responds back with her own, self-made sense of self-worth and self-esteem… that “she… is all the Jedi.” She permanently destroys Palpatine, the personification of this irrational core belief, once and for all.

And people are still misreading her arc in TLJ, it isn’t about her being nobody, it isn’t about her “finding some purpose in this story,” it was never designed to disprove this “notion” that Force-sensitivity isn’t genetic (which was always the case in the films, most Jedi and Sith were nobodies FFS); it is about Rey accepting the fact that the belonging she seeks will never be her parents and she learns to stop caring about them because of what they did to her.

Rey wants to feel loved by her parents, she refuses to accept the truth that they think she is worthless, that nobody is there to care for her.

There is a reason why Rey spent all of her years, waiting for them to come back. She has been lying to herself that she has some grand destiny which is why her parents left her, showing that they love her and care for her, that she is worth something, but however… she wants to know what that destiny exactly is. She has been lying to herself that if she had learned what her destiny was via finding out who her parents were, she would feel loved, since in this hypothetical scenario they abandoned her for an important reason, showing how much they care for her. But they don’t.

When Kylo Ren gaslights her, she finally learns to stop living this lie, to accept the truth that they weren’t significant people who had a reason to leave her, but rather insignificant people who didn’t have an important reason for leaving her behind, that they didn’t care about her nor love her. The truth that they hated her. That she is worthless.

The “place in this story,” itself, never really mattered to Rey. She only intended to use it as a way to justify her parents abandoning her so she’d feel loved. So she’d belong to them, similar to how Woody wants to belong to Andy in the Toy Story films. The reason she says to Luke that she “needs someone to show her, her place in all of this” is that she wants to find her importance only for the sole purpose of using it to justify her parents abandoning her, feeding the lie that they cared about her and believed that she was worth something so that lie would never die off, so she’d feel loved.

But Rey is wrong. That’s the point. Her arc in TLJ is about accepting that the belonging she seeks will never be her parents or Luke Skywalker.

amobex said:

Hey all, this is completely unrelated to the current topic of conversation but I used Samuel Kim’s version of the final Star Wars trailer music in a pivotal scene (linked below). I know it breaks conventions but I really dig it and thought someone else might enjoy it as well. Cheers!

https://www.vimeo.com/512376889
Password: fanedit

Link to the Samuel Kim music?

Icecream2448 said:

I’m very much a pro TLJ person, but I like their relationship turning into a mystical dyad force.
They already had a force connection before TLJ; Snoke just opened the door for them to actually verbally communicate with it (I guess you could debate on what Snoke actually allowed them to do here, but the point is neither he or Palpy knew it was inadvertently creating a vessel for the dyad relationship to really blossom. “What Palpatine doesn’t know… is we’re a dyad in the force, Rey.”) And the abilities of their dyad are so unbelievably powerful, again, still unbeknownst to Snoke/Emperor, that they can instantly transfer items back and forth through the force itself. Kylo getting water on his face is like a foreshadowing to that, which is paid off with the lightsaber transfer at the very end.

This.

THIS.

This was what I was trying to say!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Question: since the whole Snoke “bridged their minds” concept is such a problem after TROS, why didn’t Hal or Poppa delete it from their latest versions of TLJ? It doesn’t interrupt the flow of the scene whatsoever, and leaves some mysteries to be revealed in TROS that weren’t given an answer to. I can provide a clip of what I’m talking about because, like I said before, I did it in my own version of TLJ Rekindled.

It’s not a problem at all. Snoke specifically said he bridged their minds to allow them to communicate with each other, he never said anything about the DYAD in TLJ.

sherlockpotter said:

For the “Snoke bridged their minds” vs. “They’re a Force Dyad” disconnect, it’s yet another thing that TROS does to try and retcon TLJ. It could be handwaved away by assuming that Snoke was only able to bridge their minds in the first place because they’re a Force Dyad; but I think whichever explanation you prefer ignores the main problem with the reveal: How does Kylo even know about the Dyad? Kylo didn’t “sense” anything about it in TLJ. Palpy doesn’t tell him. He doesn’t discover the secret in this movie. No one has even heard of the concept until Kylo just decides to tell Rey about it, without any context whatsoever.

The same reason Leia knew of Padmé. The same reason Palpatine knew Luke, especially as the one who blew up the Death Star, in ESB. The same reason Rey knew how to do the mind trick and telekinesis. The same reason Snoke knew Rey’s name in TLJ. The same reason Luke and Leia knew of Rey’s heritage. Among other things.

The inference (key word, inference) is that the Force itself is what gives you information and knowledge of specific things; it was a passive thing, not an active thing that happens to all Force-sensitives, it doesn’t just give all information to them as if they’re omniscient, it happens every once in a while.