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Funny, I’ve never got the impression that she hasn’t fully believed the visions yet until post-Palps lineage reveal. (I haven’t read the actual novel, and I never got this impression from the film)
I feel you’re missing the point when it comes to Rey’s feelings of unworthiness. As I’ve stated before, she suffers from a core belief of self-worthlessness; on top of that, she just received a vision of herself having fallen to the dark side, convincing her she’s meant to turn out that way some day, so she gives Leia the lightsaber, feeling unworthy because she’s just going to turn to the dark side if she continues being a Jedi and using a lightsaber.
One big benefit is that it elaborates on Kylo’s motivations for turning to the dark side, which we never really get in TFA.
I mean, it’s clear Kylo was seduced by the dark side; even in the original trilogy, all we get is that Vader was seduced by the dark side. Not saying that the “why” or “how” doesn’t matter, it’s that “seduced by the dark side” is enough of an explanation.
Hmmm I definitely see what you mean.
One thing about the message in this novelization edit is that it was sent exclusively to the First Order, thus reducing its overall importance to the plot. I believe this is implied in Hal’s edit as well.
When the galaxy at large is receiving it, it makes much more sense to include it in the crawl. And as for the First Order losing power, that is already suggested in fewer words in the first sentence of Hal’s.
Hmm…
Try removing the whole “somehow Palpatine returned” scene with the Resistance, instead just have the information Poe and his crew gets be that Palpatine is going to unleash the Final Order in 16 hours soon.
Testing, I like all of the ideas in that opening crawl. The thing with an opening crawl, though, is that it needs to be straight to the point and deliver only the most relevant information to what you’re about to experience.
I believe I have included everything in that crawl throughout the first chapter itself. If I need to make some of it more clear I could definitely work on that. But personally, I enjoy having the intake of information be more gradual and spaced out.
I mean, Rebel spies don’t appear in ANH, despite being mentioned in its crawl. (Yeah, Rogue One exists, but I’m talking about in the context of ANH itself)
Basically, the crawl is the “before” and the main part of the movie is the “present” or “after”.
Here’s my suggestion for an opening crawl…
The flame of hope burns! Following the heroic sacrifice of Luke Skywalker on Crait, the daring RESISTANCE has been reborn. The diabolical FIRST ORDER, facing insurrection on a thousand worlds, is teetering on the edge.
But the dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE from the shadows beyond known space.
As Rey, the last hope of the Jedi, is continuing her training, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren rages in search of the phantom menace, determined to destroy this threat to his declining power…
Credit for a lot of this goes to /u/persistentInquiry from Reddit.
EDIT: Polished the crawl a bit.
@jarbear @JarJarBricks
Movies Remastered is in contact with Ian-Luke Production, who can do a voiceover for Palps.
Also, I did find someone who could do a “translation” of his dialogue into the Sith language… 😉
It’s already clear in the actual movie Holdo believed there was a spy, as no one in the Resistance believes that hyperspace tracking even exists.
That’s nowhere in the text of the movie. But I believe it would be easy to contextualise events so that it unequivocally reads as such, rather than one of many post-facto surmises.
It’s called an inference. It does not have to be spelled out to you.
On the TRoS Redux Ideas thread I suggested an idea to have Palpatine be speaking in the Sith language entirely all the way until he says, “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural,” (that line is in English/Basic), to preserve his reveal even more and make it more surprising when he is first SHOWN to us.
Subtitles will be there, obviously.
Also have him speak in the Sith language when he is giving his entire ritual speech.
Thoughts?
There’s no reason this wouldn’t work, but it would be a lot of work to preserve a surprise everyone already knows. I’m not actually opposed to that - I think that’s the right attitude to have, that improving the current piece of media takes precedence over meta-knowledge of its surroundings. I’m not sure this would fit with the goals of Ascendant, but in another fanedit, I’d enjoy seeing that put together.
I mean, every once in a while we guys propose a new idea here and Hal decides to take some of them in because of the potential or how far it is into editing.
It’s already clear in the actual movie Holdo believed there was a spy, as no one in the Resistance believes that hyperspace tracking even exists.
On the TRoS Redux Ideas thread I suggested an idea to have Palpatine be speaking in the Sith language entirely all the way until he says, “The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be… unnatural,” (that line is in English/Basic), to preserve his reveal even more and make it more surprising when he is first SHOWN to us.
Subtitles will be there, obviously.
Also have him speak in the Sith language when he is giving his entire ritual speech.
Thoughts?
The idea that the Jedi fell because of their own incompetence, as portrayed in the prequels and fleshed out in Clone Wars.
Also the fact that they unwittingly bring destruction every single time: Yoda trained Dooku, who became a Sith and helped Palps start the Clone Wars; Obi-Wan trained Anakin, who became Vader and wiped out most of the Jedi Order; Luke trained Ben, who became Kylo Ren and wiped out his Jedi academy and burned it down.
Luke thinks they’re inherently flawed as a concept because of this.
I got the impression that the pale eyes were to reinforce how the body is possessed by his spirit, we even see a vision of Rey with the same pale eyes (implying she’s possessed by Palps in the vision).
Duplicating this from the Ascendant thread since it’s not specific to that project: what if evil Rey had Sith eyes? Here’s a test of it in motion. They could be obvious or subtle, or have her whole face look more vampirey.
I suggested an idea one time to have Palps’ eyes be pale the ENTIRE time after he sucks up the dyad, to reinforce he’s a spirit possessing a different body. Try experimenting with this idea.
When Rey whips out her lightsaber, add offscreen dialogue of Zori’s awestruck crew saying, “Jedi!”, or “The Jedi!” Maybe Zori and her crew just thought she was a “scavenger” at first. But when they realize she’s a Jedi, Zori becomes more willing to work with them. It gives more of a reason as to why she thinks Rey is “okay”, and why she goes from pointing a gun at Poe’s head, to helping him, in 30 seconds flat.
It’s already clear from the movie that Zorii only complemented Rey because she had a gun/lightsaber to her head.
I’d be interested, but where would we even find audio of the Sith language? I can’t think of an instance of it being spoken in the movies. I guess KOTOR has a lot of alien voice lines, but I can’t remember any of them that sound like Palpatine.
Isn’t Movies Remastered in touch with this one guy online who can do an impression of Palps?
EDIT: Isn’t it Ian-Luke Production?
Thoughts?
It’s certainly an interesting idea, but it might just end up being confusing. I might be wrong though, I suppose the only way to really know it to pull together a mock up.
Subtitles will be there.
Should’ve been posted in the “Worst Edit Ideas” thread.
I know of some edits that hide Palpatine’s reveal until his first scene with Kylo Ren, even refusing to mention him in the opening crawl (Hal’s Ascendant, for example), but I just came up with an idea for any future edits that delay Palpatine’s reveal until he is first SHOWN to us…
Have Palpatine speak in the Sith language all the way until his repeat of his quote about the dark side from RotS. Of course, the “you have ever heard…” in Snoke’s voice and “inside your head…” in Vader’s voice are in regular English/Basic, and of course Kylo would respond in English/Basic and understand Palpatine speaking in the Sith language, he’s been taught in the dark side.
Thoughts?
So… something people commonly bring up in response to the criticism of Snoke lacking any backstory in TFA and TLJ is that Palpatine lacked a backstory in the OT, which I disagree with when it comes to Palps.
Palpatine was part of the original trilogy, it was a new universe part of a new franchise, there were no movies nor prequels for it to contradict, the existence of Palpatine does not contradict anything that was before A New Hope and therefore does not need a backstory in order to patch up these plot holes and explain why he makes perfect sense.
I do see as to where those who criticize Snoke’s supposed lack of backstory in TFA and TLJ are coming from…
They believe his existence in TFA and TLJ contradicts the original saga, that “we are supposed to believe at this point that he had existed the entire time due to how old he appears to be and acts, and yet he chose not to interfere for no reason at all.”
In other words, people are saying Snoke himself is a plot hole whereas Palpatine wasn’t because there was no information before the original trilogy for Palpatine to contradict which would create plot holes.
Again, I agree with what they’re saying about Palps, they’re saying he didn’t need a backstory because he isn’t a plot hole, and I do see where they’re coming from when it comes to Snoke, they’re saying his mere existence is a plot hole since he supposedly existed during the OT.
I understand what they’re trying to say, but I disagree with this notion that “Snoke is a plot hole and needed a backstory to fill in that plot hole”.
As I pointed out in another post, Snoke’s backstory is already inferable from TFA alone, and this relies on inference.
Snoke was an old Force-sensitive being who was in hiding during the original trilogy because, at that point, Palpatine was already ruling the galaxy and had not only a Sith apprentice but also an Empire to back him up. If Snoke went out to interfere during the original trilogy, Palpatine would have sent in his forces to annihilate Snoke, he is just one guy against the organization that is ruling the galaxy.
So, Snoke chose to go into hiding, waiting for Palpatine to die and for the Empire to collapse — only after RotJ, after Palpatine died and the Empire became crippled, did Snoke get the chance to interfere and fill in the power vacuum without anyone annihilating him.
Some might call me out for using “mental gymnastics” and might say that “there is nothing from TFA from which we can infer Snoke’s backstory,” which I disagree with, as there is evidence left out in TFA from which Snoke’s backstory is inferable.
In the original trilogy, it is established Palpatine is ruling the galaxy and has a Sith apprentice as well as an Empire to back him up.
Snoke clearly did not interfere during the original trilogy, and he clearly chose not to, say, assassinate Palpatine. This implies Palpatine is stronger than Snoke, and that Snoke is a coward who hid from the Galactic Empire for his safety, waiting for them to perish — that Snoke is just one dude (who has nothing) against a man who runs the organization that is ruling the galaxy and has who is essentially a hitman.
This is an inference.
I’ve seen people point out that Snoke is so powerful he can corrupt other Force-sensitives from faraway distances without meeting them in person whereas Palpatine repeatedly met Anakin in person and it took a decade until his corruption of Anakin was complete, which is incorrect. There was no indication he can do this from faraway distances, and even then it is clear Leia and Han had met him in person, how else do they know about them. Thus, it is inferable he groomed Ben in person without Leia and Han realizing.
I’ve also seen people point out that Snoke seemingly has infinite resources, enough to build the First Order — basically saying that he should have built some sort of army to, say, deal with the Galactic Empire during the original trilogy —, which is incorrect. Notice how there is a trench in Starkiller Base — this implies the First Order strip-mined the planets for its resources to build its ships, machinery and all that, hence the trench clearly visible from space.
And yeah, I do acknowledge that it was revealed in TRoS that Palpatine created Snoke himself, but this post is focusing more on specifically TFA and TLJ, which was released before TRoS. (I should also note that Snoke’s backstory needed to be changed in TRoS to reinforce Palpatine as the mastermind behind everything.)
Try, do not.
I don’t feel like it’s a substantial issue. If I’m thinking like that I’d have an issue with the idea that his X-wing even works at all being dumped underwater like that for years.
Honestly, I don’t think anything we’d do to TLJ or TROS would really reconcile things anyway. Door panel aside, the plot of TLJ itself implies that Luke could not have flown his fighter, otherwise he would have to Crait. (Logistics or travel time be damned; Star Wars has always moved at the speed of plot.) This story necessity, moreso than the door, poses the incongruity.
I mean, this is a universe with plasma blades and a magic system that only shows up in people with a high amount of fictional organisms in each of their respective cells.
Also, the First Order would’ve shot Luke down if he actually showed up on Crait.
Well I always undererstood it the exact opposite way: that the reason Rian showed the ship in the water shot is so that you wouldn’t suspect something was up with Luke in the climax.
I mean, his appearance matches when he was the legend, he’s holding the Skywalker saber, and he leaves no footprints at all.
Replace the iconic fanfare in every opening crawl with the music from this clip from one of the episodes of The Amazing World of Gumball.
Hal I know you intend for this to be the final version of your TLJ, but… TRoS shows that Luke’s X-Wing is intact, which contradicts how in TLJ that was shown to have one of its wings missing. Do you plan on going back to that shot and adding in a wing onto Luke’s X-Wing for consistency with TRoS?
Snoke is meant to be a stepping stone in Kylo Ren’s arc.
