Stinky-Dinkins

I'm using that as an excuse to finally buy a BD burner.

Hey Harmy, out of sheer curiosity will you also be releasing a 25gb version with a lossless audio codec and better video compression for those with BD burners?

To me, that looks perfect man.

Jaitea said:

How many frames does this shot have Harmy?

I wouldn't mind recolouring that particular shot...yunno cell by cell

J

Personally I think that would be cool.

Harmy said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

That looks too warm to me. If you look at the pics Harmy posted of Luke first meeting Obi Wan you can see how, before alteration, they were likewise far too warm. It made skin tones look odd and unusually red and you can see the enormous differences in the appearance of ObiWan's robe between the shots because the imagery was previously too warm. 

Sorry but that's wrong, the colours are much warmer now then they were in the WP2, including the skintones, the difference is that the skintones are brighter, not less warm, the same goes for the robes.

And come on, make the transition less 'grating'? Those two shots are like a minute from each other, it's not like they immediately follow one another.

Well, they appear far less "warm" to my eyes but, either way, I think they're better now. When I pop that unaltered image into PS and brighten it up the robe and skintones look still too warm, I thought it looked cooler in tone if anything but whatever you did it looks better than it did before. His skin looked too red, or dark, or something before but looks more natural to me now.

And "grating" in the sense that it appears a certain tone one moment and then very shortly afterwards a different hue altogether.

TServo2049 said:

OK, I did some quick and dirty, not-really-meant-to-be-accurate futzing with the second image in Picture Manager just to see what would happen to the lightsaber if I played around with the hue to make Luke's skin tone look warmer.

Notice that the saber is now a little closer towards cyan. Still more blue than in the other scene, but perhaps it looked a bit more green in that one shot originally. This tweak is not meant to approximate how the color actually looked, just trying to show that maybe the other shots look *too* blue because the rest of the color isn't warm enough.

So many mysteries...

That looks too warm to me. If you look at the pics Harmy posted of Luke first meeting Obi Wan you can see how, before alteration, they were likewise far too warm. It made skin tones look odd and unusually red and you can see the enormous differences in the appearance of ObiWan's robe between the shots because the imagery was previously too warm. They could perhaps be made a touch warmer, a little more red bias, but nowhere near where they were before. I think that would fix issues like R2's blue appearing purple and the lack of slight rosy highlights on Obi Wan's hand as seen in Verta's reference pic (making it appear slightly yellowish), and without completely changing Luke's skintone and haircolor as it was prior to alteration.

In those lightsaber caps here are the differences in where they appear in the spectrum, with the leftmost being the top cap the rightmost being the bottom:

It seems to be shifted more towards the green portion of the spectrum in every sample taken on the saber.... by a consistent degree. I think a slight nudge in that scene would improve the appearance of the lightsaber overall and make the difference in hue from a scene-to-scene transition less "grating".

Jaitea said:

I've worked out what the problem is!!!!!

Stinky.....take those bloody goggles off!

J

Fuck that. It's the only way to kep bugs out of my eyes when I'm riding my Big Wheel.

The second to last sample I captured was definitely not in the dead center though and its shade and influence was clearly visible in the appearance of the saber.

Wouldn't that explain why the saber appeared to tend more towards green to myself and some others (especially relative to how it appears in subsequent shots where there isn't anywhere near enough green bias in the saber to make it appear "greenish" rather than blue)?

I dunno man, when I randomly sampled colors from the saber in that shot as it is now 2/6 of them were green. Doesn't seem right to me.... especially considering all of the random samples from the subsequent shot were definitively in the blue portion of the spectrum.

To me it still seems still like a cyan with too much lean towards the green end of the spectrum. I think if it were nudged more firmly towards blue it would improve the stark difference in shades between how it appears in those scenes.

Cobra Kai said:

timdiggerm said:

This thread has officially gone beyond any Revisited thread ever.

I just hope my wife doesn't walk in on me while I'm looking at this.  She'll think I'm a nerd or something :)

Quickly turn the monitor off and put a throw pillow over your lap. She'll think you were masturbating, which is less embarrassing in the long run.

Honestly then it must be my monitor at work. Without exaggeration in the slightest I'm seeing clear and blatant green bias in the cyan on the left hand portion and a much clearer gradation of shades of blue on the right hand side, which perfectly mirror how the sabers themselves appear to me (which makes sense seeing as I grabbed those color values directly from them.) It has nothing to do with brightness on my display as I can take the left hand side and completely alter the brightness independently on that side so it's much darker but the same difference in hue and green bias still holds.

I'll have to look at it when I get home tonight.

ww12345 said:

See, of those the bottom right-most tile looks the greenest. The bottom left-most tile looks off-grey.

That's because they were captured randomly so close to the core. If I captured the very center of the one on the right it would look very near to white or gray (the one above it on the right is actually very light blue.)

The one on the left is definitely more green. I don't know what else to say, but if you look at the right and think the progression of color is more green then something is very off on one of our displays...

Just for the Hell of it I took the two lightsabers from the two different caps and sampled a series of several random pixel shades of the saber itself starting from the outside glow moving progressively closer to the core and plugged those values into a series of cascading tiles with the upper square representing the furthest from the core and the lowest representing the nearest to the core. It sort of makes an easier visual comparison of the stark difference between the two hues.

That's what I mean by perhaps a touch too much lean towards green in the first cap.

Strange. Unless my eyes are suddenly shitting the bed (can't be my monitor, that's calibrated correctly) it definitely appears to me as a cyan more favoring green than it otherwise should be, to the point where I could easily imagine it being identified as more "greenish" than "bluish." But, if it's just me that's seeing it I guess it's nothing to worry about.

Cobra Kai said:

Harmy said:

I never said they didn't have a different hue, they definitely do.

sorry, my bad.  i just dont understand why they would have different hues in the first place?  In the boosted GOUT, the colors between the two shots definitely have different hues as well, but I would like to know if they looked that way originally. 

I'm sure the hue varied throughout the entire film on a technical level, the thing is it never varied to the point where it didn't clearly appear to the naked eye as "light blue."

I think he means a shift in hue to the point where it doesn't appear the naked eye as really blue anymore, more "greenish" than one would expect. Dunno man, to me it just doesn't appear as a cool light blue to the naked eye.... more like a cyan with too much green bias.

Harmy said:

Like I said, to me it looks ligher blue, maybe cyan, with perhaps a hint of green but it definitely isn't a green glow or a shade of green. This is green:

 

I can't see the pic man, but I don't know if it's a hosting issue or my work blocking it.

Either way, I do understand what you're saying. They're both cyan, but the shade of cyan in the top cap definitely features more green bias and it changes the impression of the color to the naked eye, at least to mine it does. It almost appears a light sea green rather than a light blue. The bottom pic is clearly more biased towards blue to the point where to the naked eye it appears blue (as it should, and did originally.) When I say it appears green I don't mean a pure "green" on a technical level.

TServo2049 said:

That's basically what I was getting at. Cyan biased toward blue.

Here's some images from The Making of Star Wars:

I totally agree. While technically cyan, to the naked eye it appears as a cool light blue because it clearly favors the blue portion of the spectrum. No one would identify that as a "green lightsaber." The first cap posted earlier appears to my eyes as if it could pass as a gradient of green, especially relative to how the same lightsaber appears shortly after that shot.

By the way Harmy, I'm not trying to bust balls or sound like a dick or anything, or nitpick for the sake of nitpciking. I think your preservation is the easily the most important of all time and I love your work. I'm at work and trying to type fast so it might come off as snippy or something, but that's not intentional on my part.  I'm just giving my input as to how it appears to me.

TServo2049 said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

In those lightsaber shots the upper shot leans more towards green, especially relative to the lower cap.

I'd wager that the correct color is in between those two. Something like this:

As I said before, I think we've been corrupted by Empire, where it was a more pure shade of blue. All signs point to there being a bit more cyan; not as greenish as the first pic, but not *as* blue as the second.

Probably, but even as cyan it was always more visibly slanted towards blue, never appearing to the naked eye as a gradation of green. The first cap looks to my eye looks more like a relative of green rather than blue, whereas the second portion falls firmly into the blue camp, so it creates an odd contrast between the two shades.

In that shot you posted while it might be technically cyan rather than pure blue or pure green it clearly appears more biased towards the blue part of the spectrum... so to the naked eye it appears as a nice light blue glow.

Harmy said:

@Stinky: You always seem to see colours totally differently from me, I don't think the sabre's green at all in that shot, just a lighter blue that in the other, which according to the reference I've seen is correct.

Not really. I always thought the faces were far too red in that portion you just fixed - it looks much better to me now. I used to bitch and moan about the faces and robes being way off, those new shots you posted look great and far more faithful to the original in my eyes.... so we must not be seeing that much differently.

In those lightsaber shots the upper shot leans more towards green, especially relative to the lower cap.

Harmy said:

I most certainly did not use the Blu-Ray glow in that shot. And the second one is definitely not from Ady's version, you should compare those lightsabre shots with v1.0 and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also, I did make the horizon line sharp at first but it looked wrong.

 Why is the top shot so green? Was this intentional?

I can't watch any comparison videos or anything at work.

ww12345 said:

That's what I wondered as well. Growing up, I remember the blue being closer to the top than to the bottom picture. I don't know the definitive color timing of that element, though.

 The top is more green than blue though, and it definitely wasn't green.

Hey Harmy, are you still planning on releasing a 25 gig version for BD with lossless audio?

It can be adjusted slightly further but I think it's now hugely improved. The skin tones were far too red at times in those portions, they almost looked like boiled lobsters. I think the adjusted pics not only look far more faithful to the film's original presentation (which is the most important thing) but also more aesthetically pleasing in general because they look more natural. Alec Guinness and Mark Hamill were two of the whitest dudes ever to have lived, it looked off when they were maroon. Those Vader pics where you tweaked the brightness and recovered details in the black portions around his helmet base and cape that were once crushed out are good shit too.

In England after Christmas everyone fights eachother, as is their custom.

g-force said:

Stinky-Dinkins said:

Mr. Mike Cooper delivered a dose of good shit here and it's blowing my ass out.

 Wish he would share the fruits of his labors

 Well that's the fucking thing, isn't it...

Fucking A', I hate reading in-depth critiques of the video quality of the existing releases.... not that it's not good to know and that someone is working hard to correct it, it's just I can just never unsee it once I'm aware it's there. When it comes to this shit, ignorance is bliss a good 75% of the time. I blame Frink.

Mr. Mike Cooper delivered a dose of good shit here and it's blowing my ass out.