Stardust1138

yotsuya said:

Riquendes said:

Stardust1138 said:

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

If the above quote is from the “Icons: Intimate Portraits” book, then it is worth mentioning that George Lucas only refers to the possibility of there being Sequels as a vague notion in his mind.

In a 1997 issue of the “Star Wars Insider”, Lucas said “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up. I really don’t have any notion other than ‘Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.”

In a 1999 interview with “Vanity Fair”, Lucas denied ever having any plans to make nine “Star Wars” movies. “When you see it in six parts, you’ll understand”, Lucas said at the time. “It really ends at part six.”

There are more similar quotes from George. It really can be difficult to take George’s words as fact at times.

Maybe, at best Lucas’ quote of "I really don’t have any notion other than “Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.” has been incorrectly misconstrued as being his outline for his Sequel Trilogy? Because in Lucas’ own words they are not part of the main story, but may be an idea for a possible sequel or continuation of Luke’s own personal story.

Well, it depends on when George was quoted as to what he said. Early on he was talking 9 films. Never an if about the last 3. The way Mark talked sounded like it was certain he was going to do 9. As he started planning the prequels, he stopped talking about the sequels. By the time he was done with ROTS, he wasn’t planning on doing the sequels any longer. Then as time wore on, he thought about it again. I’m not sure they ever would have gotten made if he hadn’t sold Lucasfilm to Disney. Sure he roughed out treatments, but I get the impression it was more to add value to the company than because he was planning on making them at that point.

Plus, if you read the early treatments and drafts of TESB and ROTJ, they are very different than what we got in the end. That is the nature of movie story telling. It morphs from the earliest ideas to the final product. You can even see that in Colin Trevorrow’s draft and the final TROS. The story follows the same structure, but details have changed drastically.

My above comments about the Whills are aimed at the treatment that George had done, but who knows what would have happened and how the story would have changed if he had decided to start production. We probably would still be waiting for the final installment since he liked to spend 3 years on each film. But based on what he was talking about and his past track record, I think he was headed in a direction that the fans wouldn’t have liked. The fans very much wanted a new trilogy similar to the first and better than the prequels, but with a fresh story. I think going too metaphysical would have lost them. I think Abrams could have started it better. Most of the complaints come from his setup in TFA. But with that I think we got two sequels worthy of the originals. And I think the complaints about what George might have done would make the complaints about TLJ and TROS look insigificant.

He told USA Today in 2015 he planned to make Episode VII himself and then he’d sell to Disney. He decided against it and sold to them outright. He would definitely still be making the trilogy as he said as much to Paul Duncan in his Prequels book about taking three years with the films. I think George stopped talking about the Sequels because he wanted to focus on the stories he was making but that didn’t stop him from privately talking about these things to an extent as he talked to Rob Coleman, the Prequels animation supervisor, about R2-D2 recounting events to a Keeper of the Whills. The Revenge of the Sith junior novel also makes mention of the Ancient Order of the Whills. I think he only had vague notions and the story evolved. There was enough in the Prequels and Originals for another three films but he went back and forth on rather or not to ever make them.

Exactly. The same thing happened with The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. He ulimately included some of his Sequel plans in Return of the Jedi as he was burnt out and more than likely his divorce took a lot out of him. So the stories did change and evolve. That’s no secret. Stories evolve and take different courses. It’s why I think he pretty much knew the story he wanted to tell with the Prequels but the Sequels he only had vague notions of where the story would go. As in using some of the original plans in the Sequels for Return of the Jedi he’d always have to rework the Sequels a bit if he did revisit them. They were never fully laid out.

I don’t think the Sequels we ended up getting are worthy of the Originals but each to their own opinion. I’m glad some can enjoy them. I wish I could see them as worthy conclusions but I can only find I enjoy The Last Jedi if I see it as its own thing and the other two I find I only enjoy certain scenes. Otherwise they feel too distant from the world George created. I’m very much in full agreement with everything Marcia Lucas said. I don’t hate them by any stretch but they’re very far removed from what Star Wars is to George Lucas and in turn me.

As well as yes, Duel of the Fates and The Rise of Skywalker are very different but The Rise of Skywalker takes storybeats from it and puts them in new contexts. It’s a very J.J. Abrams thing to do. He puts things into his films without thinking of context as to why they worked in the original work but puts them in his own because it “delights” him. That was his whole process with The Force Awakens.

I’ll take Midi-Chlorians and the Whills over X-Wings and TIE Fighters again any day.

Riquendes said:

Stardust1138 said:

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

If the above quote is from the “Icons: Intimate Portraits” book, then it is worth mentioning that George Lucas only refers to the possibility of there being Sequels as a vague notion in his mind.

In a 1997 issue of the “Star Wars Insider”, Lucas said “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up. I really don’t have any notion other than ‘Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.”

In a 1999 interview with “Vanity Fair”, Lucas denied ever having any plans to make nine “Star Wars” movies. “When you see it in six parts, you’ll understand”, Lucas said at the time. “It really ends at part six.”

There are more similar quotes from George. It really can be difficult to take George’s words as fact at times.

Maybe, at best Lucas’ quote of "I really don’t have any notion other than “Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.” has been incorrectly misconstrued as being his outline for his Sequel Trilogy? Because in Lucas’ own words they are not part of the main story, but may be an idea for a possible sequel or continuation of Luke’s own personal story.

Yes, he’s always said as much since the early days that he only had vague notions of where the Sequels would go. They weren’t ever as detailed or as mapped out. He kept the Prequels we ended up getting vague enough in the event he never made them but open enough that he’d have wiggle room to continue and conclude the story more definitively.

His Sequels explored Anakin’s origins, the mystery of Sifo-Dyas, Darth Maul, the power vacuum that is indirectly mentioned, and quite a bit more established in the first three.

He also said in 1997:

“Let’s just get past the first three before we worry about the last three.”

I think he went back and forth with things but still planted seeds in the event he ever felt the urge to continue and conclude the story. He seemed to distance himself further from the idea when he got backlash for the Prequels and I can’t say I blame him as no creative person can work in a situation where people are telling you what a horrible person you are. It’s very heartbreaking as he was following his vision. Star Wars was his. It may have created a whole in our collective culture but it’s his baby. He owes no one anything but in the end he came around as in 2011 he started researching and writing up his Sequels. He decided to not make the films himself and gave certain fans exactly what they wanted by selling the company.

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

As well as this interview Mark Hamill did in the 80’s.

“It’s either going to be on another plane of existence, or not the same character. When you see the ending, you’ll see why it has to be the last one. Period."

https://youtu.be/_lCNn8Ys5GQ

George always seems to have seen each trilogy as being different and for that matter each film in the saga as a whole. He never settled for doing the same thrills and tricks twice. He always made each of his six films vastly different from the last. They may of had familiar elements but the context was always vastly different. Like the Death Star I and II. One represented Luke’s battle outwardly and the other represented Luke’s battle inwardly with his father.

As well as Mark talking about the saga as a whole ending on another plane of existence does make me wonder if early on George had vague notions of getting into more metaphysical subject matters as the Whills are some of the earliest least known or talked about lore. It’s vague enough on Mark’s part to not give too much away. It would be interesting to have someone ask him. He did talk a bit about how the Prequels we have are very much what he thought George described them as being back in the early days in Howard Kazanjian’s book. So I’m sure he at least had a broader sense of things as Mark says. Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum also talked about this back in the 90’s.

“George always wanted to make nine. He wanted to make the first three. And he wanted to make the Prequels to that. Then he wanted to make the last three. And that was something that was part of his concept.”

“Rather or not George ever completes six of the nine part series or he actually ever ultimately completes the nine, it’s really nine parts of one film. It’s one big saga about a family that happens to live in a galaxy far, far away.”

Ultimately George never fell prey to giving fans exactly what they want. He always experimented and tried new things. Unfortunately many want Star Wars to be a romp and adventure series but it can be so much more as the Prequels proved. He decided to give these fans what they wanted by selling the company as he’d be sacrificing his principles as an artist making basically the same story all over again.

The Force Awakens duel is a play by play of the Attack of the Clones duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan versus Dooku. The imagery and beats are nearly identical. It feels like a massive copy and paste except more choppy and less fluid in movement.

Cadavra, I agree for the most part about Attack of the Clones. It was probably the one I watched most as a kid along with Return of the Jedi. I’ve been revisiting Clones the most lately when I rewatch the films and am finding I love it just as much now. It’s not perfect but I like the romance. It’s interesting exploring two characters who come from repressed environments of being a Jedi and Senator to finding comfort and love. Padme in particular I find comes into her own and slowly begins to allow herself to feel something. Anakin struggles with it too but is more emotionally charged and struggles with lust and pleasure versus real love. We know he loves her though but ultimately as we know she choses the wrong guy.

I do wish we had seen Owen be more hesitant for Anakin to go but I do think it works well enough that we don’t need it. In Clones we see Ki-Adi-Mundi refer to Dooku as a “political idealist” and years later we have Obi-Wan refer to the Clone Wars as an “idealistic crusade” but we also see R2 show up at the end of Shimi’s funeral with a message from him. Owen was present and heard his name. So years later there’s wiggle room I think for him to blame Obi-Wan for taking Anakin away for the war. He did have a bit of an irrational streak to his personality that Beru helped him with. So it’s not out of the realm of possibility he didn’t have full context. Obi-Wan implied as much.

The one thing I wish we had seen on screen is the Lars letting C-3PO leave Tatooine. It’s probably my biggest nitpick with the film that I can think of off hand.

Huey Lewis and the News - Stuck With You

https://youtu.be/J08ZwySCoJ8

Weezer - Keep Fishin’

https://youtu.be/hOIsYA1QDuk

Here’s an article that touches on George’s intentions with colour through his own words:

https://www.dailyhindnews.com/star-wars-george-lucas-explains-the-meaning-of-colors-in-the-saga/

George was also struck by Triumph of the Will. The Empire very much has strong Nazism influence but a little known fact is the ending of A New Hope borrows strongly from the propaganda piece for the Rebel Alliance medal ceremony. You see this repeated in Attack of the Clones to a degree with the Clones.

Here’s an article that cites it:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/03/19/where-theres-a-will

Needless to say I think colours from the onset were inspired just as much by Western culture as a whole and not just one source. There’s also of course the strong Eastern influence. The films cited many reference points and cultures in designs as well.

Here’s also a great video of Camille Paglia discussing the ending of Revenge of the Sith:

https://youtu.be/Ibkmh72_1pw

I’d say there’s definitely an unwritten rule. George used colours a lot in his films to symbolise different meanings and he was very conscious about it. Black, red, and grey tended to be mostly associated with the Dark Side while earth tones were mostly associated with the Light Side. These tended to be browns, tans, and green. George describes it as a world of absolutes versus the organic world. Red is also used for passion, blue is used as a symbol of life and good, and purple tends to be reserved for royalty and political figures. It goes on and on. There’s lots of symbolic meaning in his colour choices and layers in patterns that develop throughout the story.

The most obvious usage of his choice in colour and symbolism is when you watch both Attack of the Clones and The Empire Strikes Back. They go back and forth between the two extremes of blue and red but never fully clear cut. The locations also strike many similar shapes. However in saying that in most cases it’s that they’re the most reversed Star Wars films of them all. Clones begins in the clouds while Empire ends in the clouds. Both have a cave experience. The list of patterns goes on and on. It’s honestly very complex to get into all the details.

Here’s a glimpse:

As with Jedi robes:

Jedi robes have been consistent since Return of the Jedi and really the beginning. Luke’s outfits also mirror Anakin’s. They get progressively darker each film. They’re also very similar to each other.

Revenge of the Sith and Return of the Jedi for reference:

Whose also to say the way the Jedi dress isn’t that similar to peasants on Tatooine or the galaxy at large? There’s different cultures and traditions across the galaxy. I’m sure they connect in some way. Afterall Star Wars is an ecosystem and it connects to a greater whole.

And lastly, Padme and Leia:

George thought of every last detail. I wish more people realised just how much is packed in his six films and other works. He’s very much a visual filmmaker who works in themes that are consistent throughout his entire career. The most notable and obvious is the Hero’s Journey told through THX, Curt, Luke, and Anakin. His films are more than dialogue but what is expressed nonverbal. It’s a large part as to why so many cultures can identify with these films. You can understand everything going on in his films through visuals alone. Not many filmmakers have that ability. He understands film far better than people give him credit for. I digress for now.

Francis Ford Coppola on Solitude

https://youtu.be/D0tzyJYl7Ak

“Death is on the back of everyone’s minds whether they want to admit it or not” - Francis Ford Coppola on July 28, 1996

Such a beautifully crafted little short.

NeverarGreat said:

People often overlook that documentary-style filmmaking was a significant element in the original Star Wars, which helped give a sense of reality to the fantastical world.

With TFA nearly every shot has dramatic camera movement, the shots cut for the fleeting emotion of the scene and the scenes existing within a fragile web of movie logic that begins to dissolve upon any closer inspection.

Though TLJ is better in this regard, it still feels like the director is driving the focus of the scenes with singleminded intention.

IMO, a stationary camera on a tripod is sometimes the best answer.

The Prequels as well. Overall though I agree. Of the films in its trilogy I think The Last Jedi does the best job. Not neccessary in the sense of connecting to the first six but the look established by The Force Awakens. It’s more grounded and focused.

SparkySywer said:

Have Rian write and JJ direct if they’re gonna collaborate. I often see it the other way around, but TLJ was the best written one and TFA was the best directed one, so I feel like it would work better that way around.

I strongly disagree that The Force Awakens is the best directed of the two. There’s too much quick cutting and frantic rush to get from Point A to B. There’s no sense of scale or atmosphere. We often see characters begin talking and mid sentence there’s a quick cut. It’s particularly noticable when Han is talking to the gangs. He’s good at getting mostly solid performances from his cast but it’s not enough. I personally don’t think his style suits Star Wars. I think The Last Jedi is a step up in every single way. The script just needed a bit more polishing.

Added Joseph Campbell: The Power of Myth.

Rian Johnson and Nathan Johnson - What’s In My Bag?

Director Rian Johnson & composer Nathan Johnson go shopping at Amoeba Music in Los Angeles.

This is a fun little video. I like how they mixed together their discussion around music and film.

Removed.

JadedSkywalker said:

I think the story works within the context of the film. The one thing i had a problem with was Luke trying to kill Ben in his sleep, he would never do that. It was out of character. I also agree with Mark Hamill that Luke would’ve never given up.

Throwing away the lightsaber makes perfect sense though it is rejecting the call to adventure. It could have been handled differently sure, he could have just handed it back to Rey. This is a weapon for a Jedi, i’m no Jedi. Or even he had forsaken violence and would never take up the sword again.

I think Rian had a story to tell and he could tell it the only way he knew. And he is correct in saying it is about the story. Not the fans. Lucas would have done the same thing. The story has to thrive organically and have its own beats. Rian fits right into the auteur theory of directors, while JJ has a checklist of cool visuals and throw away fan service junk storytelling. The film by copy paste boardroom of executives. Assembly line filmaking and total lack of vision and creativity. He put Luke on an island because he had the total inability to figure out how to include him with Rey and the new cast. At least Rian gave Luke a story purpose even if you disagree with some of its arc or if it even made sense.

Agreed. I think Luke also contemplating killing Ben regresses a point in his character development he already experienced and better.

I think a more likely failing on his part would be being stubborn in his ways and forgetting how he needed help as he always did things as a team in the Original Trilogy like Obi-Wan helping him destroy the Death Star and his father saving him from Palpatine. What would happen if Luke thought he could do everything alone and his failings were his own hubris? He could still care about his family and friends but forget just how important they are when focusing more on the Jedi path.

I also don’t think Luke would give up but I blame J.J. more so for putting the story in the position to make it the only logical explanation as to why he’d walk away from his family and friends.

I don’t particularly like him tossing the lightsaber but I think that’s because of how it’s portrayed as comical and not serious. However I do admit to sort of giggling when the porgs are playing with it.

Exactly again. That’s why I appreciate Rian’s take more too. I may not always agree with his vision but I can at least get there to a degree and appreciate the film on its own merits. It doesn’t feel like it’s a full on lack of vision, creativity, and respect but instead like it challenges our notions of what a Star Wars film can be. I like it a lot for the same or similar reasons. I just find that it at the same time doesn’t connect to George Lucas Star Wars as it’s vastly different in voice, tone, and style.

I think the bigger but not only problem with Luke is that we don’t see him get this way. Like many things in the trilogy it feels like essential pieces of the narrative are pushed to backstory or are never acknowledged to get us up to speed. It feels like an important story was skipped over in favour of something familiar and nostalgic with The Force Awakens.

On its own merits I think The Last Jedi in general is a very flawed but pretty intriguing and layered film. It’s far from a masterpiece or the dumpster fire some claim it to be. It’s somewhere in the middle but finding middle ground discussion around it is like finding a needle in a haystack.

As its own thing I give it about a 7.5 or 8 out of 10.

If I had to rate it as a continuation of George Lucas Star Wars I’d give it about a 4 out of 10. However even then I admittedly find that to be pushing it.

fmalover said:

Speaking of lightsaber building, is there some sort of rule that you’re only allowed to wield a lightsaber of your own making?

Obi-Wan went on to build his own lightsaber after losing his first one in Naboo despite having Qui-Gon’s. AotC established that the Jedi Order does have spare lightsabers, yet Anakin and Obi-Wan built their own lightasbers after the Battle of Geonosis instead of keeping the ones they were handed. This unspoken rule IMO contradicts Obi-Wan’s line to Luke about his father wanting him to have it when he was old enough.

I’d say it’s traditional for a Jedi to build their own lightsaber as there’s an arc in The Clone Wars of the younglings going to Ilum to gather kyber Crystals to build their own lightsabers for the first time. They probably had spares because the two Jedi wielded two lightsabers as in the background of the battle you can see a Jedi battling with two. Just like Ahsoka.

I’d also say there’s no contradiction in what Obi-Wan said if you watch things in sequence order. Obi-Wan also fibbed a couple of times from his certain point of view to get Luke to go after his destiny and to become a Jedi. It’s only when Luke lost his aunt and uncle that he decided to follow along.

BedeHistory731 said:

Given what Luke learned about the fall of the Jedi, it’d make sense to toss away the Youngling Killer 9000 like garbage.

I wish they had explored that further as it may have actually made me appreciate the idea behind Luke tossing it. It could work as Luke’s second lesson. He tells Rey about the fall of the Jedi and proceeds to tell her about the terrible acts the lightsaber has been part of in galactic history. He shows hesitation but gifts her his green one. She reluctantly accepts and they exchange lightsabers. She tells him that she’ll build her own and will return it back to him. He smiles slightly.

Kylo/Ben sees she has it and gets flustered. He proceeds to tell her his account of what happened with Luke. She becomes more hesitant to be wielding the green one but proceeds to the mirror cave as normal and they have their moment as he can look pass it as his feelings for her are greater.

Luke seems to have come around and is open to teaching her how to build a new lightsaber for his third lesson as a change of mind to his original plans as he has parts to build one. He even sees possiblity in her wielding a double blade if they combine the green and blue together or use the kyber Crystals in both. However as soon as he sees her with Kylo/Ben he gets angry again and eventually he tells her the third account of what really happened. This time she reaches out with his green lightsaber but he doesn’t accept and reluctantly tells her she will need it if she’s going through with her plan.

Kylo/Ben mentions in the lift that he can’t believe she has the lightsaber but everything continues as seen in the film except he uses the green lightsaber to defeat the guard. He comes around to keeping it for himself as a reminder of Luke and that it saved his life. He fights Rey for it but it snaps in half.

This also adds to when Luke uses the blue one on Crait. It helps create the further illusion that he is on the planet and ultimately he reclaims it as a symbol of hope.

oojason said:

'Mazzy Star - Fade Into You (LIVE)’ - on Later with Jools Holland, circa 1994:-

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpZBxY0aAag

^ many quality versions out there - live, acoustic, and ‘homage’ style videos… yet this one always stands out (for me, anyway). Beautiful vocal, with sublime music and performance. RIP David Roback.
 

I love Mazzy Star. I’ve been listening to them a lot. Fade Into You is a classic. I also love this one.

Mazzy Star - Flowers in December (Live on 2 Meters Sessions)

https://youtu.be/nrgtUUG_rp8

It’s a shame the record label didn’t respect their artistry but I so admire them for sticking to their beliefs. It would’ve been so easy for them to give in but they didn’t cave. They stayed fiercely independent.

Removed.

Servii said:

To be fair, she probably only watched the movies once, when they first released. And she may not have even watched TRoS. So she’s not really in a position to go into further detail on them, and that’s not what she wanted to focus on here, anyway.

Jonathan Rinzler said in an interview on YouTube that he spoke to Marcia in the summer of 2018 or 2019. I can’t remember which. It was before The Rise of Skywalker was released. Not that it’s relevant as I agree that wasn’t her focus as she only gave broad strokes to her opinions. Like when it came to The Phantom Menace. I don’t see how some take her words to mean she hates it. To me it seems more like she was very disappointed by it and didn’t like a number of aspects but didn’t hate it like she did with the Sequels. I could be wrong and I don’t want to speak for her but that’s at least the impression I got from her words.

Just added Howard Kazanjian: A Producer’s Life. I’m really looking forward to reading it and not just because of the contributions of Marcia Lucas. I always enjoyed seeing Howard in the old behind the scenes documentaries as his stories about Blue Harvest were always so fun. It’s going to be interesting I’m sure reading more about him as Jonathan Rinzler was a true genius at writing and his genuine affection for the subjects he wrote about always came through. I’ll be sure to share any interesting details on the forum if anyone wants to hear about it.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Also, no, Obi-Wan dying did not advance the plot.

He’d have nothing to do on Yavin IV except sit around and watch. He would have served no purpose. Dying he was able to guide Luke into trusting himself and the Force in not needing his targeting computer to destroy the Death Star. In Empire he guided Luke to finding Yoda and advised him against confronting Darth Vader as he wasn’t ready. In Jedi he helped Luke see Yoda would always be with him and that he must confront his father again or Palpatine would win.

His death advanced the plot and served as character development for Luke.

jedi_bendu said:

Stardust1138 said:

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan dying in the first two trilogies serves the narrative in the subsequent two films in their trilogies.

I believe Han, Luke and Leia’s deaths serve the narrative just as much. Han dying furthers Ben’s arc, as he goes deeper into the dark side after killing his father - taking that extra step - but is also more conflicted. Rey also loses her newfound father figure and it gives her good reason to hate Kylo Ren on a personal level in the next film.

Luke’s death doesn’t serve the narrative as much - he could have survived into the next film. However, there’s nothing edgy about it. Luke’s death is symbolic of him putting his trust in Rey and passing the torch down to the next Jedi; I also find it beautiful that he dies just as he regains the inner peace and heroic purpose he’d been missing for many years.

Leia’s death is the short term cause of Ben finally turning back to the light. He realises how much he is moved by her death, showing him that despite his best efforts, he too is ‘vulnerable’ to love just as Vader was; he also realises how much he feels he should carry on what she fought for and give up his identity as Kylo Ren. This is strongly implied in the scene with Han’s ghost/memory/vision thing.

I think you’re right to an extent but it’s all surface level due to the subsequent progressions of the narrative.

Han - I only find it to be once in the narrative that Kylo/Ben is confronted with his actions. However as soon as it’s said he deflects and puts it back on Rey and her need for validation and on her abandonment issues. We are told he has too much of his father’s heart. We are told that he thinks about him and that he’ll always be with him but we never actually see these things while he’s still posing as Kylo Ren. Maybe Han’s dice conveys thinking about him but I fail to see the other two points. The dice also only appear after his confrontation with Luke.

Luke - Absolutely and I agree as within The Last Jedi itself Luke does these things, and I’d even say he inspires hope for the galaxy as we see with the kids at the end but what comes after is a reset. Leia is now the Jedi Master teaching Rey. Rey never restores the Jedi Order on screen but instead she adopts herself into the Skywalker family. It isn’t Luke that inspired the allies to come together for the battle on Exegol but Lando.

Leia - I again agree in part but there’s no substantial payoff to her sacrifice as ultimately he dies. I thought that was only to pass if Leia didn’t stop her Jedi path? He may have helped rescue Rey from the Knights of Ren and even Force Healed her but he played no part in defeating Palpatine. He had no significant impact on the story after he’s redeemed beyond saving Rey.

So yes, I think at the time they do have some kind of impact on the narrative but as the story goes along they don’t come up again or they’re glossed over. Edgy probably was the wrong choice of wording. I meant it more in the need to have death for the sake of it. George never did that except really with the Death Star and Order 66 but that was because of their purposes in serving the story.

To continue with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

Qui-Gon - He was the father figure Anakin needed. Obi-Wan wasn’t ready for the trials of being his master and father figure. He saw Anakin as more like a little brother. Nobody except for Qui-Gon knew what to do with Anakin and Palpatine exploited it.

Obi-Wan - He guided Luke to Dagobah to train with Yoda and he helped push Luke towards confronting his father and Palpatine.

Their deaths had an impact on the character(s).

By comparison again.

Han - Rey remained unchanged by the death of Han apart from the instances where she confronted Ben and brief time she believed he couldn’t be turned back to the Light. Finn didn’t talk about him once after The Force Awakens. Poe didn’t mention him at all.

Luke - Rey mentions him to Leia at the and of The Last Jedi but afterwards only gives him a moment’s thought in relation to the plot device of the Wayfinders. She also confides in him on the island. So it is a slight improvement. However Finn doesn’t mention Luke at all. Poe doesn’t either.

Leia - Rey doesn’t mention her at all except in relation to Leia’s lightsaber Luke gifts her. Finn and Poe mourn for a moment with Chewie but it’s quick to move onto the next story point.

Shouldn’t the central hero(es) we’re supposed to care about be impacted by the passings of their mentors?

Anakin starting out at nine years old was the right call as his innocence really reflects the childlike wonder of the story told and of a time before the galaxy was put in deeper despair.

The Phantom Menace would be looked upon with more understanding and needed as part of the narrative if George had made his Sequels.

Anakin’s origins, Darth Maul being introduced, who the Hutts were and what their disconnect from the Republic was, and other plot lines all connect to his plans.