screams in the void said:
Stardust1138 said:
screams in the void said:
^ This current discussion reminds me of the whole " Ring Theory " that was going on a few years back , I gotta go with HelloGreedo on his take on it here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FGBGcvWkdM
To which I rebuke with this video essay by Rick Worley. He shares quotes from George that back things up that show the Ring Theory is true. It’s definitely intentional as you can even see it in The Clone Wars.
https://youtu.be/vqnjzVX8EKA
Here’s also a shorter video that addresses the idea.
https://youtu.be/Btp1BoGbuiM
Even Disney Star Wars does it. Albeit without understanding context a lot of the time and deliberate copy and paste.
https://youtu.be/Lrr1-T4Z_Wo
^ In regards to the first video you linked to , cherry picking and subjective editing and commentary do not prove something to be true and the maker of that video is analogous to those he points to who are doing the same thing .
In regards to the second video , a great deal of those story points in Empire are a greatly attributable to screenwriter Lawrence Kasdan ,who also was a screenwriter on The Force Awakens …I think he understood context just fine . The video also points to Terminator 2 as an example of ring theory ,which HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them .
In regards to the third video…of course their are parallels ,as HelloGreedo mentions that a ton of other films do and that it’s not hard to spot these things if you are looking for them, even The Legends EU did these things like closed loops and circular narratives ,as does Star Wars under Disney , which Those Rebels clips in the video are a part of .
All this said , there are things that I like about All of the Star Wars films and things I don’t which is a whole other topic on its own
I respectfully disagree in part with what you’re saying as George discusses it in greater detail than just what was covered in the video. He discusses it in the commentary of The Phantom Menace. He calls it “visual jazz” and in the commentary of Attack of the Clones addresses how characters start saying the same things with similar ambitions. Notably Anakin and Dooku. For that matter he addresses these things in the commentary of each of his films as he’s been exploring these ideas since his early days when working on THX 1138 and American Graffiti. There’s too many examples to consider them to be coincidence. Some of the most notable examples within Star Wars are how the Jedi Temple arrival in The Phantom Menace syncs at the same time with its burning in Revenge of the Sith. The Podrace and the Speeder Bike Chase in Return of the Jedi sync and begin at the same time. The explosions happen at the same time. The framing and camera work. It all aligns together. There’s also Obi-Wan telling Luke he needs his help in A New Hope while it’s mere second synchronised with Palpatine saying the same thing to Anakin. The level of detail he went to with paralleling father and son’s story is definitely there in layers through narrative structure and. strong visual imagery. Sometimes they happen with the same character in different ways like Anakin’s choice when he succumbed to the Dark Side versus when he found the Light Side again when facing a similar choice. Narratively and visually it’s the same idea played differently but the same common principle but a different choice being made. There’s a great misunderstanding that poetry means copying but the images and narrative have to differ in some way for it to work effectively. This is why Rey doesn’t work entirely because they gave her so many responsibilities within the narrative that they didn’t think of the context.
I do think things are subjective but at the same time I do think sometimes people analysis films from the prospective of what they want them to be versus what the author intended. That’s not to say Red Letter Media or whomever can’t have an opinion as we all have one but trying to understand what the author intended versus spitballing without proper claims is not always right, especially when so many of the perceived problems of the Prequels are addressed within the narrative. It’s all to say that if you let go of what you want something to be you may find an understanding of what the author intended and see the underlying subtly versus your notions of what it is. There’s rules for a reason within filmmaking of this scale but that’s not to say they’re not meant to be breakable if done right.
The thing with The Empire Strikes Back is George had the narrative and majority of the plot outlined. He came up with the large bulk of the ideas for it. Lawrence Kasdan mostly touched up the dialogue, notably with Yoda. There’s this great misconception that George didn’t do much with Empire and that’s why it’s “the best of the best” but he really was heavily involved. It’s out of respect for Leigh Brackett that he’s not recognised more I think and in turn Lawrence Kasdan received such a cult status. I highly recommend Jonathan Rinzler’s book.
We’ll have to disagree about The Force Awakens. I think it copies without understanding context more than anything. It’s too on the nose.
I’ve not seen Terminator. So I don’t think it’s fair to give my thoughts on that part of the video but it came after Star Wars. A lot of films may connect to some extent to it now but it wasn’t always that way. Star Wars is what pushed the mythology and importance of heroes back on the path of central importance within mainstream stories. Before that Hollywood in particular was going down a very gritty and dark path. That’s not to say there wasn’t stories that didn’t parallel or connect before it but it had fallen off in Hollywood. Star Wars has always had strong parallels. The Original Trilogy in its own way fits the structure of ring composition very well between the three films.
I think Rebels is the only Disney era content to truly get the context mostly right but it makes sense that it would as Dave Filoni learned from George. I can’t say for the other bits as I’ve read very little of the EU so far and with Disney’s films it’s all about context. I think they’re missing context most of the time. I think Rogue One and some of The Last Jedi are exceptions.
Absolutely. We all have different interpretations of what is and what isn’t Star Wars. That’s part of the charm of it. It brings different people together for different reasons but there’s a common ground in knowing we all love it but may differ in some ways. I may not fully think Disney has understood Star Wars but I can still find some enjoyment if I don’t think too much of it fitting into what George created. His six films and The Clone Wars will always be my favourites. I’ll always be grateful to him.
