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Stardust1138

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18-Mar-2018
Last activity
24-Oct-2021
Posts
470

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Post
#1453847
Topic
Dune - Denis Villeneuve
Time

BFI At Home | Dune Q&A with Denis Villeneuve

https://youtu.be/l-JuD1kIQ9k

Academy Award®-nominated filmmaker Denis Villeneuve (Arrival, Blade Runner 2049) talks to Edith Bowman about his big-screen adaptation of Frank Herbert’s seminal bestseller, Dune. This Q&A originally screened after a preview of the film at BFI Southbank.

As well as this:

Dune Director Denis Villeneuve on Adapting Frank Herbert’s Notoriously Unfilmable Sci-Fi Epic

https://youtu.be/Wx0SALW3qF8

It takes an experienced director like Denis Villeneuve to tackle a project like Dune. The Canadian filmmaker joined Q’s Tom Power to explain why he was eager to helm a big-screen adaptation of Frank Herbert’s seminal novel, despite its shaky cinematic past. Read more: http://cbc.ca/1.6215592

These should be a good watches after seeing the film. I’m so hyped. I’ve not been this excited for a movie since The Last Jedi. I really hope I’ll find time to see it on at the big screen.

Post
#1453816
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

RicOlie_2 said:

I think precisely because the line is thin, I tend to cut comedians more slack here. A lot of good humour is offensive to people with thin skin. But I can also accept that some humour is legitimately offensive and in poor taste. I have no investment in or real knowledge about Dave Chappelle, so I can’t make a judgement in his case.

I do too usually. However from what I’ve gathered he went in with the intent that he knew it would offend people. I think that’s when he should’ve taken a step back and re-thought his plan. I mean a few jokes here and there aren’t a bad thing as everyone should laugh at themselves but going as far as doing it with ill intent is pushing it a bit far in my book.

Post
#1453814
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

RicOlie_2 said:

To all y’all complaining about Dave Chappelle, keep in mind that humour usually involves making fun of people and it doesn’t make people anti-whatever-they’re-making-fun-of:

https://www.quora.com/What-s-the-deal-with-Dave-Chappelle-and-Netflix-recently

Absolutely but there’s a thin line in humour I find between doing it in jest and doing it with ill intent. I think knowing it will offend people is when you should rethink your approach. Especially when it comes to minorities and those underrepresented. It leads to a dangerous precedent that it’s okay to treat people who don’t meet the “norm” this way. There’s a thin line when crossing that line.

Don Rickles I find was one to insult people but you always knew he was just doing it in jest. That’s the difference between this situation and with him.

Post
#1453789
Topic
If you need to B*tch about something... this is the place
Time

jedi_bendu said:

JackNapier said:

Boycott Transphobic Netflix who are backing an anti trans comedian! Fuck Netflix!!!

I heard about this. Never watched Dave Chappelle and never going to now, it sounds like a lot of his current comedy is built off so-called ‘commentary’ on LGBTQ+ people, with transphobic and homophobic jokes, and straight up saying he’s ‘Team TERF’. I know the usual discourse will be around cancel culture, but come on guys, we do need to see some accountability and meaningful consequences for being a bigot. Intolerance shouldn’t still be tolerated in this day and age.

If we want to talk about what cancel culture really looks like, maybe let’s turn to how Netflix fired the organiser of a ‘trans walkout’ in peaceful protest of Dave Chappelle’s comments and Netflix’s defence of him.

Exactly. I couldn’t have said it better.

Post
#1453752
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

jedi_bendu said:

Stardust1138 said:

The Sequels and Disney era are more openly political and coming from someone who doesn’t really get into politics I find it to be sometimes off putting.

I actually think that Disney era star wars stories in general are really far less political than what’s come before and relevant political undertones are really lacking. The prequels and TCW are the most political imo. What do you find political about, for example, the sequels?

I think in terms of story and relevance the Prequels and The Clone Wars are definitely the most political. They’re more self contained to the stories being told and you can draw lines with them to their relevance in day to day to life. Their importance in story always comes first though.

With the Sequels and Disney era it’s more the undertones and modern story techniques of making them topical versus telling the story around said politics. Like L3 representing identity politics and Lando being pansexual. These are both very real issues that are obviously trying to connect to a real world issue. There’s more of a new wave feminism approach to certain characters like Holdo versus more lead by example feminism approach of Padme and Leia in the original six films.

These things are definitely important and I think are needed. They have a place in media in general but there’s a thin line you must make when creating stories. I find with Star Wars it’s usually been used for escapism and being treated as timeless with politics serving the narrative, not the narrative serving the topical ideals of the time. Although certain things naturally carried over as we have an issue as humans to make the same mistakes over and over.

The best examples I can think of are fitting in the kiss at the end of The Rise of Skywalker. It’s there to appeal to a group versus having meaning within the narrative as there’s no build up. It’s the opposite of Leia taking charge and not letting the boys boss her around in the original film when they rescue her on the Death Star as it’s established right away with Darth Vader then a bit later with Tarkin she can hold her own.

With George Lucas Star Wars it was always what you did with your political power that defines you as shown in The Heroes in Both Sides arc in The Clone Wars. Courtesy to popular belief I also don’t think the Rebel Alliance and Empire were as black and white as some make them out to be.

With Disney Star Wars it’s segregated between Resistance good, First Order bad. Finn’s background and DJ really challenging the notion they could be anything more than that went nowhere. The only time I can think of that I feel the political message mostly works is with the fathiers as they serve the narrative.

None of these things I find in what Disney are doing are bad things. They just need to serve the story and fit the narrative. Story should always come before agenda and how you portray it when you do.

It reminds me of a relevant quote from Andrei Tarkovsky when he described his film, The Sacrifice:

“The film highlights that if we don’t want to live like parasites on the body of society, nurtured by the fruits of democracy, that if we don’t want to become conformists and idiotic consumers then we have to dispense with a lot. And we have to start with ourselves. We’re quick to blame others, the society, our friends, but not ourselves. On the contrary, we like to indoctrinate others, give speeches on how to behave, want to be prophets, but have no right thereto, because we attend least to ourselves and don’t follow our own advices. It’s a dramatic misunderstanding if one person says: “That’s a good person.” Because what’s that today, a good person? Only if one is willing to sacrifice oneself, one can claim to influence the general process of life; there’s no other way. The prize is to pay is our material wealth. One has to live as one talks, so that the principles are not just idle talk and demagoguery, but turn into reality.”

Post
#1453589
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Johann-500 said:

Stardust1138 said:

Respecting creators including George should always take precedence to your beliefs.

Woah!
A civil respect, or a general respect? For sure.
Acknowledging their efforts, achievements and the content you enjoy, love or that resonates? Of course.

Yet the truth (or facts) should come first. Before the ‘precedence’ turns into blind respect, which then turns into idol worship. Where facts and the truth are then ignored because of that idol worship. Something that a great number of Star Wars fans have ignored when putting George up on a pedestal is the actual history of Star Wars, and also ignoring George’s attempts to both retcon, change and suppress parts of the history.

Stardust1138 said:

He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines.

This was talked about only recently by you and another member on here? Where Lucas is quoted it was only had a vague “notion” and that “It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing” (Luke’s own personal story).

So it was not much other than a vague idea for a future story for Luke, and not for Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy. So the claim of Lucas having these “broad strokes”, “broader sense of things”, or “plans” for the Sequel Trilogy does not apply here.

In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

It is important to remember that Midichlorians have not always been there in Star Wars. Despite Lucas trying to change history and insert his retconned quote to pass off ideas that came to him only later when writing the Prequels.

Has anyone found a mention of Midichlorians before Lucas’ writing for the TPM? If the term Midichlorians always existed in Star Wars it would not be difficult to prove for Lucas himself or Lucasfilm, but we have no evidence. Nothing other than Lucas’ famous retconned quote in a failed attempt to try and provide that evidence.

I hope you do not take my post as aggressive or an attack on you Stardust1138. You have a beautiful way with words and I enjoy reading your posts. But I feel I must highlight where I disagree, where the facts or evidence of the history does not add up (such as passing off Lucas’ vague idea for a possible future Luke story as his ideas for the Sequel Trilogy, with even Lucas himself saying this idea was not a part of the main story).

To quote Lucas in 1997: “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up".

You can respect but not always agree with someone. It’s common courtesy I find. There’s no need to insult someone or call anyone names or accuse them of x and y when we’re just as guilty of doing the very same things in our own lives in different ways. No one is perfect. We’re all flawed and make mistakes. George has his fair share but has every right to do what he feels is best as it’s his story at the end of the day. He’s always been one to change his mind. All creative people are like that. I’m a creative person. I never stick to the same ideas from one moment to the next. I always want to make my story better. I don’t see anything wrong with that. Especially as it’s my vision. Just as Star Wars was/is George’s vision. He can do whatever he pleases with it. It may belong to all of us but it’s also ultimately because of him we have it to begin with. Creators don’t have a responsibility to please or to give us what we want. Their job is to make something personal to them. Hopefully it’s morally responsible and helps us in some way but that’s a whole different topic. I’d say though George did that and then some.

I did have that discussion. It’s hard to say as both Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum said the Prequels and Originals were part of his process with the Sequels. We also have Mark Hamill’s words. We don’t know what George personally was thinking behind closed doors. He probably truly believed for a long time the story would end at six but left open certain things in the event he decided to make the last three or at the very least for The Clone Wars series. However as The Clone Wars evolved he saw potential in continuing the saga. Darth Maul for example returned in 2011. The same year he started developing his treatments for the Sequels. He probably started drawing more lines of where he could go with the Sequels as they were never as fleshed out as the other trilogies. There’s nothing wrong with that. Stories grow and change. The 80’s to 2011 is a long time to be carrying the same story. Of course it would evolve. It sort of has to as your sensibilities change but your core remains the same.

It’s not to say Midi-Chlorians have been there from the beginning but there’s plenty to say they don’t contradict things in the Original Trilogy. They were only three films part of a six or nine film saga he planned. Midi-Chlorians enhance things we learn in the Original Trilogy or vise versa if you decide to watch the films in the order George intended us to watch them. Things don’t seem like an accident. They just happen. Like Anakin building C-3PO. It’s not a coincidence but merely part of the story.

Not at all. Thank you for your kindness and words. It’s good we can’t all agree. We all have a personal certain point of view of how we see things. The only one though that knows at the end of the day what was or wasn’t the original intention is George. I tend to give him the benefit of doubt because of everything I said above. I’m confident in saying I think he had a plan. Nothing definitive probably but a plan that evolved nonetheless of where he wanted to go with his films. How much was there from the beginning? I’d say some vague notions with themes and with the Whills.

“Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else (an immortal being known as a Whill); there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concepts behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the Journal of the Whills.”

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves,” Lucas says, “Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

From all we know about his Sequels these things track.

Post
#1453551
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Omni said:

I was going to check out that video, but I went to that guy’s channel and…

I seriously don’t understand what about the prequels or George Lucas attracts the minds of terrible people like this. And not just that, but also the fandom menace people/far right portion of the fan-base that seems to love the prequels. Those movies are actively against everything these people crave, as is Lucas, it’s just crazy to me. And then they just shit on the worst aspect of the sequels, with slurs and offenses to both cast and crew. Kelly and Daisy had to delete their social media accounts for fuck’s sake, this is insane to me, truly. I just don’t get it. Same people that go “Star Wars is political now! Get it off my movies!” …buddy, you seem to not have understood a single thing about Lucas’ 6 if that’s how you feel…

As Servii said let’s try not turning this into a political debate but for what it’s worth Rick is a raging liberal. He talks about it in his Woody Allen documentary. Your political views are irrelevant to what you find enjoyment in if it’s executed well in terms of story or what you find right or wrong in life. Sometimes they do mix. There’s a very personal story to the Prequels. It goes beyond just your ideology and feelings on certain things. The Sequels and Disney era are more openly political and coming from someone who doesn’t really get into politics I find it to be sometimes off putting. I go to stories for escapism or to learn something new or experience a new way of life. Sometimes I do seek a more political view but I’m neither liberal nor am I conservative. I’m somewhere in the middle leaning more left. There’s too much extremism when we look at things too black and white. Some definitely do take it too far. The Fandom Menace being the prime example but the great majority who dislike the Sequels have very well thought out reasoning behind their dislike of the films. It has nothing to do with Daisy Ridley or Kelly Marie Tran but the story not connecting with them personally or it doesn’t feel like they continued and respected what came before. It’s all a matter of personal tastes and prospective of what serves the story. It doesn’t make you a bad person to dislike the Sequels or any other era of Star Wars. Same with stories and art in general. Respecting creators including George should always take precedence to your beliefs. I may not like J.J’s take on Star Wars but I can still respect him and try finding things I do enjoy about what he’s made or just ignore him and accept he’s not to my tastes. Just as it doesn’t make Rick Worley a bad person to defend Woody Allen. He makes a compelling argument as to why he’s innocent but it’s up to the individual to decide if they want to believe him. Ignorance is bliss but challenging our beliefs is much more difficult. We must always try to put the needs of others before ourselves. Everyone deserves to be treated equally and fairly. Our experiences are all one of the same and that’s a very core value Star Wars teaches us. As it’s not about your ideology but what you do with that power that defines you.

I’ll leave with this quote from the late great Kenneth Clark:

“I believe that order is better than chaos, creation better than destruction. I prefer gentleness to violence, forgiveness to vendetta. On the whole I think that knowledge is preferable to ignorance, and I am sure that human sympathy is more valuable than ideology. I believe that in spite of recent triumphs of science, men haven’t changed much in the last two thousand years; and in consequence we must still try to learn from history. History is ourselves.”

For the full excerpt:

https://youtu.be/r9lmepH9STs

Post
#1453489
Topic
Your DVD Collection
Time

Added Star Wars: The Clone Wars Box Set of Season 1-5 on Blu Ray. It was a bit steep in price but with no complete series box set with season seven in sight it seems like the right time to buy any chance of owning the series on Blu Ray. I wish I had bought it a few years ago as the Collector’s Set was beautiful. You live to learn.

Have a great birthday, CourtlyHades296! I hope all of your wishes come true.

Post
#1453478
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Servii said:

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

Wow, that was really interesting. I’ve always been fascinated by the micro-ecosystems in the human body, and the delicate balance in which they exist. I agree with Worley that there isn’t anything inherently non-spiritual or anti-spiritual about exploring that. The cosmos is, in my opinion, something deeply spiritual, on both a micro and macro level, with there being many observable parallels between the larger universe and the tiny cells inhabiting it. It’s the same cycles and processes repeating on different scales. Like concentric circles.

Also,

“I was going to put more about the midi-chlorians and the Whills after Episode I, but everybody freaked out and said, “We don’t like this. It’s terrible,” so I didn’t. Also, I had an investment in the whole thing financially so I was forced to relent because I knew it was self-indulgent. But I was very keen to have it be in the movies, and if I had gone on to the last three, it would’ve all been explained there.”

Reading that from George made me sad. He had fleshed all this out so thoroughly in his head, and developed this intricate supernatural system. But people rejected it, so he caved and mostly dropped it. Knowing that George didn’t get to fully realize his deeper concepts within the saga is a real shame.

I’m still not sure how I feel about the Whills, though. They still seem too traditionally theistic, in my opinion.

Agreed and same here. It was very interesting. Rick always has great content. I agree too. There’s as much spirituality in exploring these things as there is in Luke’s training with Yoda on Dagobah. It’s something even bigger than all ot this and asks even more questions.

It makes me very sad reading it and his Sequel plans as any time I watch the Sequels we got from a critical lenses I realise how incomplete George’s story truly feels. Sure you can watch things up to Return of the Jedi and feel a sense of formality but there’s still three more stories that he had to tell that become more and more apparent when you watch the first six. People call out plotholes at the Sifo-Dyas mystery being unresolved but we have a video of Dave Filoni from a few years ago stating it was part of the story George wanted to lock down more before he left. Then now we have George talking about it in relation to his Sequels of him being a secret Sith. We have George talking about Anakin’s origins. The major “plot holes” in the Prequels were to be addressed. It’s why I think he did have some kind of plan as Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum spoke of for his Sequels. He may not of had every detail planned out but he had a broader sense of things to create story points for later. Mark Hamill spoke in the 80’s how George planned to end things on another plane of existence. This sure feels like someone who had an idea of where they wanted to go. Maybe not every detail as even he said he didn’t have but enough to know the broader strokes to create new storylines. In the end unfortunately many rejected him as they didn’t feel these concepts connecting Midi-Chlorians and the Force fit into Star Wars, when in reality they have always been there and align even with things Joseph Campbell talked about. Star Wars was always building to something bigger. It becomes even clearer the more you watch his six films.

As for the Whills. I’m so intrigued by them. Especially with this quote from George the 20th Anniversary of The Phantom Menace discussion on the official site:

“Early on, it was that Anakin had been more or less created by the midi-chlorians, and that the midi-chlorians had a very powerful relationship to the Whills [from the first draft of Star Wars], and the power of the Whills, and all that. I never really got a chance to explain the Whills part.”

It’s all circular and a symbiotic circle. It’s all about their relationship just like the Naboo and Gungans, Jedi and Sith, Master and Apprentice, Rebel Alliance and Empire, and the countless other things done in duality throughout his six films. The Whills and Midi-Chlorians share it at the largest scale.

Could the Whills in a general sense be seen as God or theistic? Absolutely but it also fits to there being something greater at play than the moral beings can fathom and process. It’s a very relevant commentary for the modern world.

Plus I really want to see R2-D2 recount the story of Star Wars to the Keeper of the Whills. I have vague ideas of what it looks like in my head but it’s probably not even close to what George had in mind. I like how Colin Trevorrow’s script for Duel of the Fates had an echo of this story idea. He seemed to really care about putting forth George’s vision with the limitations he had due to the directions J.J. and Rian took the story.

Post
#1453435
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Servii said:

Stardust1138 said:

What are the Whills?: (How to Watch Star Wars: Part 1.1)

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Sweet! I’m going to check that out tonight.

I know he’s planning to make a video defending the Special Editions. I expect I’ll disagree with him on a lot of things, but I’m curious to see what his rationales are for some of the weirder changes.

I hope you’ll comment your thoughts after you watch the video. I’m curious what you think.

I’m really looking forward to seeing what he says about the Special Editions. I am sort of in the middle. I don’t really mind the changes but I’d also say I’m not opposed to the unaltered versions of the films either. I’d welcome owning them with open arms. At the end of the day though they’re George’s story. The artist always comes first for me in deciding what is best for their work.

Post
#1453413
Topic
General Star Wars <strong>Random Thoughts</strong> Thread
Time

Rick Worley just released yet another masterful video. This time he’s exploring and explaining the Force, Whills, and Midi-Chlorians. Although it’s hard to say if he’s completely right about everything as we don’t know all of George’s story he does have very valid reasoning through his research.

https://youtu.be/ZbfvS_BwCls

Post
#1453157
Topic
The Criterion Collection Thread
Time

Added:

Brazil
Paris, Texas
Wings of Desire
Inside Llewyn Davis

I’m really looking forward to exploring Terry Gilliam and Wim Wenders. I’ve been intrigued by them both for quite awhile now. I only know Terry Gilliam from Monty Python. It should be good to get into his personal filmography. Brazil seems like the best place to start. I’m equally very excited to get into German cinema properly by way of Wim Wenders.

I don’t know much about the Coen Brothers either but I’m excited to watch another film with both Oscar Isaac and Adam Driver that delves into folk music. It’s one of my favourite music genres. The great thing in addition to the film is the Criterion version includes a concert. Great value!

Post
#1453128
Topic
Last web series/tv show seen
Time

So far it’s been a really good show. I’m really enjoying these ABC Family/Freeform series. They remind me a little of Channel 4 series. This one has a very interesting group of girls who all come from different social backgrounds. It’s interesting to see how their dynamics are growing and evolving as the storylines get deeper away and connected to their shared sport of gymnastics. Sometimes they even mix together. It’s also had a great soundtrack. I’m discovering some great new music through the series.

I also love having Peri Gilpin as the mother of one of the girls. I always loved her as Roz Doyle on Frasier. She was always overshadowed I feel in just how essential she is that show’s success. She really commands a presence and this series is no exception to proving what a talented actress she is.

Post
#1453065
Topic
The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released)
Time

sherlockpotter said:

Original ending for comparison: https://streamable.com/15r2vd

Potential new version: https://streamable.com/asygmi

I mainly tried to smooth over the pickup note between Rey’s Theme and the End Credit fanfare. Oh, and shoutout to bbghost for helping me find the correct music clips!

This made me nearly cry. This and an edit where Rey is not a Palpatine but still declares herself a Skywalker and we see her parents may have actually worked for me in terms of accepting the trilogy as its own thing without as much bitterness. Your edit here shows me that and so much of what could’ve been a decent conclusion to the trilogy.

Same with whomever it was that had the children’s puppet show have a figurine of Luke to foreshadow Rey taking the name.

Credit to everyone though. Amazing work!

Post
#1452855
Topic
Discussion: HASBRO'S Star Wars shitshow.
Time

That guy with no name said:

Stardust1138 said:

Blame it on Disney, not Hasbro. Disney doesn’t make nearly as many toys as they did in the George Lucas era. Many snark but Star Wars is second to many kids who favour superheroes. They’re not going to produce toys (or merch) unless it will make them money. You see Baby Yoda because that’s where popular demand is and they’ll make a profit off of it. This is different from George who had an action figure made for every character. He understood the market for both kids and collectors alike. The only thing really collectors have now is Hot Toys but they’re more expensive. It’s unfortunately the reality as the only high point in the Disney era is The Force Awakens but I contribute that a lot to everything feeling new and fresh but more importantly it was almost all pushed before the movie came out. It’s why Captain Phasma toys and merch sold like hot cakes but then reality set in with each subsequent film.

well, either way, we probably won’t see any back in stock.

Unfortunately. Believe me I understand the struggle. For the 20th Anniversary of The Phantom Menace there was barely any merch or toys released. However The Empire Strikes Back got significantly more stuff for its 40th. I know Empire is the more popular film within the fandom but Episode I is my favourite Star Wars film. I’d love to have some merch for it. I’d at least like to find a good tee but it’s very limited in that department for the film and Prequels in general compared to the Originals and Sequels. I’ve only found a few shirts for the Prequels online that are official but they’re limited in design. This compared to the treasure troves for the Originals and a fair amount for the Sequels is very frustrating.

Post
#1452850
Topic
Discussion: HASBRO'S Star Wars shitshow.
Time

Blame it on Disney, not Hasbro. Disney doesn’t make nearly as many toys as they did in the George Lucas era. Many snark but Star Wars is second to many kids who favour superheroes. They’re not going to produce toys (or merch) unless it will make them money. You see Baby Yoda because that’s where popular demand is and they’ll make a profit off of it. This is different from George who had an action figure made for every character. He understood the market for both kids and collectors alike. The only thing really collectors have now is Hot Toys but they’re more expensive. It’s unfortunately the reality as the only high point in the Disney era is The Force Awakens but I contribute that a lot to everything feeling new and fresh but more importantly it was almost all pushed before the movie came out. It’s why Captain Phasma toys and merch sold like hot cakes but then reality set in with each subsequent film.

Post
#1452707
Topic
George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
Time

yotsuya said:

Riquendes said:

Stardust1138 said:

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

If the above quote is from the “Icons: Intimate Portraits” book, then it is worth mentioning that George Lucas only refers to the possibility of there being Sequels as a vague notion in his mind.

In a 1997 issue of the “Star Wars Insider”, Lucas said “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up. I really don’t have any notion other than ‘Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.”

In a 1999 interview with “Vanity Fair”, Lucas denied ever having any plans to make nine “Star Wars” movies. “When you see it in six parts, you’ll understand”, Lucas said at the time. “It really ends at part six.”

There are more similar quotes from George. It really can be difficult to take George’s words as fact at times.

Maybe, at best Lucas’ quote of "I really don’t have any notion other than “Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.” has been incorrectly misconstrued as being his outline for his Sequel Trilogy? Because in Lucas’ own words they are not part of the main story, but may be an idea for a possible sequel or continuation of Luke’s own personal story.

Well, it depends on when George was quoted as to what he said. Early on he was talking 9 films. Never an if about the last 3. The way Mark talked sounded like it was certain he was going to do 9. As he started planning the prequels, he stopped talking about the sequels. By the time he was done with ROTS, he wasn’t planning on doing the sequels any longer. Then as time wore on, he thought about it again. I’m not sure they ever would have gotten made if he hadn’t sold Lucasfilm to Disney. Sure he roughed out treatments, but I get the impression it was more to add value to the company than because he was planning on making them at that point.

Plus, if you read the early treatments and drafts of TESB and ROTJ, they are very different than what we got in the end. That is the nature of movie story telling. It morphs from the earliest ideas to the final product. You can even see that in Colin Trevorrow’s draft and the final TROS. The story follows the same structure, but details have changed drastically.

My above comments about the Whills are aimed at the treatment that George had done, but who knows what would have happened and how the story would have changed if he had decided to start production. We probably would still be waiting for the final installment since he liked to spend 3 years on each film. But based on what he was talking about and his past track record, I think he was headed in a direction that the fans wouldn’t have liked. The fans very much wanted a new trilogy similar to the first and better than the prequels, but with a fresh story. I think going too metaphysical would have lost them. I think Abrams could have started it better. Most of the complaints come from his setup in TFA. But with that I think we got two sequels worthy of the originals. And I think the complaints about what George might have done would make the complaints about TLJ and TROS look insigificant.

He told USA Today in 2015 he planned to make Episode VII himself and then he’d sell to Disney. He decided against it and sold to them outright. He would definitely still be making the trilogy as he said as much to Paul Duncan in his Prequels book about taking three years with the films. I think George stopped talking about the Sequels because he wanted to focus on the stories he was making but that didn’t stop him from privately talking about these things to an extent as he talked to Rob Coleman, the Prequels animation supervisor, about R2-D2 recounting events to a Keeper of the Whills. The Revenge of the Sith junior novel also makes mention of the Ancient Order of the Whills. I think he only had vague notions and the story evolved. There was enough in the Prequels and Originals for another three films but he went back and forth on rather or not to ever make them.

Exactly. The same thing happened with The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. He ulimately included some of his Sequel plans in Return of the Jedi as he was burnt out and more than likely his divorce took a lot out of him. So the stories did change and evolve. That’s no secret. Stories evolve and take different courses. It’s why I think he pretty much knew the story he wanted to tell with the Prequels but the Sequels he only had vague notions of where the story would go. As in using some of the original plans in the Sequels for Return of the Jedi he’d always have to rework the Sequels a bit if he did revisit them. They were never fully laid out.

I don’t think the Sequels we ended up getting are worthy of the Originals but each to their own opinion. I’m glad some can enjoy them. I wish I could see them as worthy conclusions but I can only find I enjoy The Last Jedi if I see it as its own thing and the other two I find I only enjoy certain scenes. Otherwise they feel too distant from the world George created. I’m very much in full agreement with everything Marcia Lucas said. I don’t hate them by any stretch but they’re very far removed from what Star Wars is to George Lucas and in turn me.

As well as yes, Duel of the Fates and The Rise of Skywalker are very different but The Rise of Skywalker takes storybeats from it and puts them in new contexts. It’s a very J.J. Abrams thing to do. He puts things into his films without thinking of context as to why they worked in the original work but puts them in his own because it “delights” him. That was his whole process with The Force Awakens.

I’ll take Midi-Chlorians and the Whills over X-Wings and TIE Fighters again any day.

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#1452692
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George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
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Riquendes said:

Stardust1138 said:

I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

If the above quote is from the “Icons: Intimate Portraits” book, then it is worth mentioning that George Lucas only refers to the possibility of there being Sequels as a vague notion in his mind.

In a 1997 issue of the “Star Wars Insider”, Lucas said “[The whole story has] six episodes…If I ever went beyond that, it would be something that was made up. I really don’t have any notion other than ‘Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.”

In a 1999 interview with “Vanity Fair”, Lucas denied ever having any plans to make nine “Star Wars” movies. “When you see it in six parts, you’ll understand”, Lucas said at the time. “It really ends at part six.”

There are more similar quotes from George. It really can be difficult to take George’s words as fact at times.

Maybe, at best Lucas’ quote of "I really don’t have any notion other than “Gee, it would be interesting to do Luke Skywalker later on.’ It wouldn’t be part of the main story, but a sequel to this thing.” has been incorrectly misconstrued as being his outline for his Sequel Trilogy? Because in Lucas’ own words they are not part of the main story, but may be an idea for a possible sequel or continuation of Luke’s own personal story.

Yes, he’s always said as much since the early days that he only had vague notions of where the Sequels would go. They weren’t ever as detailed or as mapped out. He kept the Prequels we ended up getting vague enough in the event he never made them but open enough that he’d have wiggle room to continue and conclude the story more definitively.

His Sequels explored Anakin’s origins, the mystery of Sifo-Dyas, Darth Maul, the power vacuum that is indirectly mentioned, and quite a bit more established in the first three.

He also said in 1997:

“Let’s just get past the first three before we worry about the last three.”

I think he went back and forth with things but still planted seeds in the event he ever felt the urge to continue and conclude the story. He seemed to distance himself further from the idea when he got backlash for the Prequels and I can’t say I blame him as no creative person can work in a situation where psople are telling you what a horrible person you are. It’s very heartbreaking as he was following his vision. Star Wars was his. It may have created a whole in our collective culture but it’s his baby. He owes no one anything but in the end he came around as in 2011 he started researching and writing up his Sequels. He decided to not make the films himself and gave certain fans exactly what they wanted by selling the company.

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#1452664
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George Lucas's Sequel Trilogy
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I think the opposite. As even if George had made the Sequels back in the 80’s they would be vastly different to what Disney gave us.

Take into account two major bits:

“If the first trilogy is social and political and talks about how society evolves, Star Wars is more about personal growth and self realization, and the third deals with moral and philosophical problems… The sequel is about Jedi knighthood, justice, confrontation, and passing on what you have learned.”

A quote from George in the 80’s. He always viewed each trilogy as being different from the last but interconnected.

As well as this interview Mark Hamill did in the 80’s.

“It’s either going to be on another plane of existence, or not the same character. When you see the ending, you’ll see why it has to be the last one. Period."

https://youtu.be/_lCNn8Ys5GQ

George always seems to have seen each trilogy as being different and for that matter each film in the saga as a whole. He never settled for doing the same thrills and tricks twice. He always made each of his six films vastly different from the last. They may of had familiar elements but the context was always vastly different. Like the Death Star I and II. One represented Luke’s battle outwardly and the other represented Luke’s battle inwardly with his father.

As well as Mark talking about the saga as a whole ending on another plane of existence does make me wonder if early on George had vague notions of getting into more metaphysical subject matters as the Whills are some of the earliest least known or talked about lore. It’s vague enough on Mark’s part to not give too much away. It would be interesting to have someone ask him. He did talk a bit about how the Prequels we have are very much what he thought George described them as being back in the early days in Howard Kazanjian’s book. So I’m sure he at least had a broader sense of things as Mark says. Steven Spielberg and Rick McCallum also talked about this back in the 90’s.

“George always wanted to make nine. He wanted to make the first three. And he wanted to make the Prequels to that. Then he wanted to make the last three. And that was something that was part of his concept.”

'Rather or not George ever completes six of the nine part series or he actually ever ultimately completes the nine, it’s really nine parts of one film. It’s one big saga about a family that happens to live in a galaxy far, far away."

Ultimately George never fell prey to giving fans exactly what they want. He always experimented and tried new things. Unfortunately many want Star Wars to be a romp and adventure series but it can be so much more as the Prequels proved. He decided to give these fans what they wanted by selling the company as he’d be sacrificing his principles as an artist making basically the same story all over again.