SpenceEdit

So there’s two things I’ve been wrestling with this whole time, and I’ve decided to put them back in.

• C-3PO will exclaim “Oh, they fly now!” without Finn and Poe mimicking it. I think the initial line from 3PO is funny, but the other two don’t need to parrot it.

• I’m gonna have Babu Frik pop up in the big battle. Honestly, it made me and everyone I was with laugh at the theater, and I still enjoy it.

A little humor never hurt anyone, right?

Octorox said:

So my understanding is that this edit removes all connection/backstory between Rey/Ochi/Palpatine? What does your version of the hangar scene looks like?

I’m using RogueLeader’s version he created. The reveal is now that Palpatine saw a vision of Rey taking the Sith throne. The focus is now on her struggling with the dark side and Kylo struggling with the light.

I’m with Octorox. I understand the intention, but I don’t think removing strong moments for the benefit of the story making slightly more sense is a good move. The movie needs that moment at that point in order to maintain a good flow and keep the viewer engaged. I’d rather change things down the line to accommodate the moment better than change the actual moment.

raises hand tentatively

I will tinker! Though I’m resistant to removing the Chewie/lightning bit.

Agreed!

Hal 9000 said:

The scene feels hollow, but it is convincing as a real scene from THE RISE OF SKYWALKER (2019) if it had been that way in the theater for sure.

Ascendant removes the line from an earlier scene where Kylo says he will turn Rey to the dark side when he finds her. It felt unnecessary and would make sense that’s something he wouldn’t want to just blatantly state.

However, incorporating it here could give this scene… a little bit more of a reason for being. Hardly a dramatic revelation, but it’d be something.

Also, in this version of the scene, there’s no hint that something dramatic is coming in the next scene, though we do still know that he’s on his way and they gotta go, so I guess that still works.

The scene just ends up, “I pushed you in the desert because I’m going to turn you to the dark side.” No shit.

I actually tried it that way around, and it felt even less natural. I feel like “I don’t want to have to kill you” at least shows Ren leaning a little light side. It’s something.

The problem is, in a Rey Nobody context the scene is pointless, it’s just another fight. So I am kind of okay with it just being another fight. I really like what RL is trying to do with it though.

DominicCobb said:

That works really well although I like RL ending the scene with “I have you now,” otherwise it feels a bit abrupt like oh okay we’re done now.

I actually stole that and added it in since I rendered this lol

RogueLeader said:
Personally, I think I prefer Spence’s approach. I sat down and watched the first 30 minutes of ESB:R tonight, and I couldn’t help but compare the filmmaking language between that and TROS. I definitely am a proponent of the use of some visions when it comes to ST ideas, but I do think the less flashbacks/visions are used as a storytelling crutch, the better it would be for the movie.

Here is the most recent version of where I ended up with that scene, for context.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I4gQtIMFhUsZL7WxBO7_7xDSVvAZGP9L/view?usp=sharing

NeverarGreat said:

I remember when my girfriend and I went to see TLJ for the first time. We both came out of the theater with an overall good impression.

Then we went and saw it again, and the flaws started to appear.

In other words, the movie passed the Refrigerator Test (unlike TFA or TROS), but didn’t bear repeat viewings as well as, say, the OT.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s nowhere near terrible, it’s just that it is very messy in many ways.

I think “messy” is really the core problem with all the post-Disney Star Wars stuff. Everything just feels very all over the place.

I’ve always wondered, do you think the reception to TLJ would’ve been different if the leaks hadn’t gotten out before it released and everyone was already pooping all over it just from the few clips they saw?

Because honestly, I really do. For a lot of fans on reddit or wherever, they had all collectively decided they hated it without actually seeing it. There was a group consensus from a big chunk of fans that the movie was bad before it even came out. The way the movie handled Snoke or Luke or whatever was already out there and people had decided it was bad, but they didn’t get to experience it in the moment. I think that would’ve made a big difference.

I avoided spoilers and online discussion, so I didn’t know about that reaction. I remember going to see it, thinking it was brilliant and everyone is going to love it, everyone in my theater loved it, all my friends loved it. Then I got home and fired up reddit and it was like they all saw a totally different movie to me. It was a very weird thing.

It’s kind of like what’s happening now with Morbius. I’m sure it’s probably terrible, but everyone decided it was terrible months ago. It never had a chance to surprise us. Same with TLJ.

So, a serious update.

(by the way, the clip a few posts above this one was a fun April Fool’s joke, if you missed it.)

At this point I consider the edit “picture locked”, which in my head means I’ve got it where I want it and will not be making any further major changes. Everything from here on out is just tweaking things and fixing technical problems. I’ve got it in a good place, but some of the audio changes are challenging and require some more attention.

I’ve got some trusted eyes watching it this weekend that will likely find more problems I haven’t noticed, but I watched it from beginning to end yesterday on a big TV with very loud surround sound (my wife was out of the house so I could really crank it) and I’m very happy with how it has turned out.

So TL:DR, this should be released very soon, within the next two weeks or so. I’m very proud of it. I’m grateful for all the assistance and shared ideas that I was able to use. Big shoutout to all the amazing work on Ascendent that HAL9000 and all his contributors put into that edit, as it formed the basis of mine and brought in some incredible moments nobody would’ve thought could even exist.

There will be a big long list of thank you’s at the end of the credits for this one!

thebluefrog said:

I lost a lot of respect for Rian when he started screaming about his dick to critics.

I get that being insulted online is aggravating, but when you’re a grown man, especially one given such an important public role, that’s just childish and embarrassing.

I actually haven’t heard about that.

JadedSkywalker said:

I couldn’t disagree more on force awakens. I mean they took Luke and made him a worthless maguffin. Who does that? He was the main character of the original Saga of episodes IV, V and VI. Because they couldn’t figure out a way to include him without upstaging the Disney characters. The one thing i did like was Finn, i liked Poe, i liked Rey and her scavenger on Jakku story. But its a bad unoriginal story and completely derivative on purpose due to the prequels having the perception of being so bad they left a stank on Star Wars.

You could still have new characters like Rey, Poe and Finn and easily set it in the far future. Don’t repeat the same beats rebels vs empire. Don’t crap all over the legacy characters. The sequels are a mixed bag. But the one thing they botched Luke, Han and Leia. Completely and utterly. Its almost unforgivable.

I’ve said this before elsewhere, but the biggest problem with getting Star Wars “right” is that it means different things to different people. So one person’s “new and exciting” is another person’s “disrespectful and unforgiveable” and neither one is necessarily wrong. The sequel trilogy, or at least the first 2/3 of it, hits every note I want out of Star Wars, so I enjoy it. For some that’s the opposite of what they want out of Star Wars, so they hate it. We’re both right.

I see people losing their minds with excitement over what they’re doing with Luke in Mandalorian, and I’m just thinking that they’re ruining it by bringing him in, and I still feel that way. But they’re ruining what “I” personally like about it. I’m also cackling with glee over Boba fighting weird Harryhausen monster and trying to teach Tusken’s how to ride speeder bikes, and some people thing it’s horrible. Star Wars is so incredibly subjective.

I also think that if Mark Hamill hadn’t publicly reacted negatively to how Luke is handled in TLJ, people wouldn’t complain nearly as much about it, and might be able to find the good in it. It’s the best and most interesting performance of his career. I think it’s very weird that he turned the conversation on it so publicly when he did such good work. It’s a bit disrespectful to Rian Johnson, to me. He wrote these beautiful scenes for him and gave his character a lovely send off.

STF78 said:

Totally fell for that clip, my bad 🙈

shhhhhhh don’t give it away

EddieDean said:

Spence, which elements are you intending to incorporate from Hal’s?

I’m using it as my main source, so most of it. The major things I’m not including that spring to mind, other than my obvious changes, are the sabers are both blue in mine, and no force ghosts.

I’ve had a major breakthrough with the force bond duel. I can’t believe I didn’t think of it sooner.

This took hours, and is probably some of the best faneditor work I’ve ever done. Please take a look at the below clip and let me know what you think!

https://vimeo.com/694564040

My overall impression of the sequels: A lot of people’s issues with these films stem from what they are not, but the good things about what they are are frequently ignored.

The Force Awakens is a blast, it’s fun and light and exciting. Is it just kind of a ripoff of ANH? Sure! But it introduces some great new characters and is directed confidently. It brought the films into the modern age of filmmaking, which is something Lucas was resistant to do with the prequels. Sure, he pioneered visual effects that are still being used today, but they’re reeeeaaally old school from a storytelling, directing, and editing standpoint. TFA’s story may not have been anything amazing, but it’s craft was important and strong. It had an energy to it not seen since Empire.

The Last Jedi is what happens when you put someone with a vision in charge of Star Wars, for better and for worse. I love the film specifically because it’s not trying to please anyone. All it’s interested in is telling the most dramatic story it can with the pieces set up in TFA, and I think it largely succeeds. The actors in this film give incredible performances, especially Driver, Ridley, and Mark Hamill, who has never been better. Do I wish it was about 20 minutes shorter? Sure, yeah. Otherwise, this is by far the best sequel trilogy film, and one of the better films in the whole saga. The cross-cutting sequence leading up to the Holdo maneuver, where every storyline collides at the exact same moment culminating in that breathtaking silent destruction of the First Order fleet, is one of the most astounding pieces of pop filmmaking I’ve ever seen.

Rise of Skywalker cursed itself from the beginning by trying to cram in Carrie Fisher even though she’d passed away. The retconned deleted scenes not only feel out of place, but are a bit ghoulish given the circumstances. Instead of iterating on the sometimes controversial developments of TLJ, they basically decided to ignore or retcon most of it, tying the story in knots to appease… well, nobody really. This movie is all energy but no fun, and afraid to take any chances or make interesting decisions for fear of another TLJ situation with the fans. However, Ridley and Driver are both great again, there’s some incredible visuals, and the action is interesting. Exegol is cool, Palpatine’s return was well handled, and there’s genuine chemistry between the main characters. Also, Babu Frik. Can’t forget Babu Frik.

The sequels, to me, are a genuinely interesting mixed bag. But, I feel the same way about the prequels, and in a way the OT as well. Star Wars has always been imperfect. It’s imperfections can be what makes it so endearing. I think these films will be revisited in a few years with the same enthusiasm the prequels are now.

A little teaser trailer I made for funsies:

https://vimeo.com/694034238

amobex was kind enough to create an opening crawl for me, as my experiments were getting there but still didn’t feel quite right. He also figured out the “and so does Leia” and was kind enough to allow me to use it. bbghost has also helped me out with some audio work toward the end of the movie.

Otherwise, we are really getting there with this. There’s a few more audio related things I need to clear up throughout, but generally the movie is there. I’m hoping to get this out at the latest May 4th.

If there’s anything specific anybody would like to see a preview clip of, let me know and I’ll share it here.

GMatias said:

Here are some quickie thoughts for the second effect:

Seems like you have two places to make that work: (1) when Ben pulls the saber out before attacking the Knights of Ren, or (2) just before that when Rey and Ben have their mental connection.

(1) The trick with this is you have less footage to work with. For a beat like this it seems like you’d want to focus/zoom in on the saber, but you have about 3/4 of his arc of pulling the saber from behind his back before the shot ends. And without a closer shot of the saber blade, I’m not sure that a flash or bang would work as well as you would like it to.

But I don’t think this idea for this shot is unsalvageable, just that you might need to settle for something a little more subtle. Maybe the saber starts off crackly as Ben pulls it out, but the blade heals/calms over the course of that shot & the following extension of it where Ben does his “OK, you asked for it” shrug.

If I were attempting that, I’d try a simple opacity masking: have the blu-ray footage for those two (or three, if you want to include the quickie interim shot with 3 or 4 frames of blade in it) on one track and lay the identical HAL9000 footage over it. Mask the saber on the HAL9000 footage so that it’s the only thing showing, and then slowly shrink the mask starting from the hilt on out. The tracking should be done for you by using the identical footage.

(2) Same VFX idea as above, but have that effect occur has Rey is holding the saber by her face. The idea being that her connection with Ben is centering/calming her and that’s reflecting in the saber. That might be placing the emphasis more on her than you want, but it has the benefit of enough screentime and screen location to do the effect in a more noticeable & organic manner.

I just tried what you recommended over the shot of Ben, and it’s not really noticeable enough to have the impact I want it to. Maybe I’ll just leave it as is as a more subtle thing.

Appreciate the advise!

So I have two effects related things I’m trying to work out on the edit. One is essential, and one would be nice to have. My skillset does not lie in effects creation.

I need a new crawl. I’ve been trying to do it myself but I’m only working with Vegas Pro, and I just can’t get it to look like it’s an original crawl. If anyone has some experience making these and would be willing to put one together, I’d be very appreciative.

The other thing is just an idea I’m tooling around with. Basically, I’m using HAL9000’s edit as a base, which means throughout the film there is a “crackle” effect added to Luke’s lightsaber due to the damage from TLJ. Basically, it looks like Kylo’s saber. It’s really cool, because it also symbolizes the struggle within Rey.

What I’d like to add is when the saber is passed from Rey to Ben at the end, the saber is at first crackling, but then there’s a flash/sound effect and it becomes a steady beam again. Basically, adding impact to the fact that Ben has finally stepped into his role as a Skywalker, and the saber is where it belongs.

Anyone have any ideas as to whether this is possible, or the ability to help me make it look cool?

Prepping a second workprint now. This one will be in 5.1 surround as I’m getting the mix better.

Let me know if interested. Please provide feedback if you reach out. If you do not intend to provide feedback please wait for the final release.

Thanks!

fidodido said:

Spence, I haven’t seen your workprint yet (I didn’t ask for it either, as unfortunately I don’t have the time right now to review it appropriately), but only based on what you’ve planed and what you’ve already shown, I am very impressed by your edit.
Especially Leia’s death should work even better with the new changes and the connection to the mask-rebuild.
Thank you for your work!

Thanks for that, it’s definitely getting there!

The trickiest thing is making these changes without it feeling to fanedity. I want it to feel like a natural Star Wars film. Maybe still a lesser Star Wars film, but something we might’ve gotten at the theater a few years ago.

I’m a huge fan of The Last Jedi, and I really like Force Awakens, so I want it to feel a part of those films.

A few more changes I have implemented based on feedback:

• Created Leia’s early death using footage of Kylo Ren from a deleted TLJ scene. His scenes reforming the helmet are now placed more naturally in the story to help the early pacing.

• Removed D-O’s line “sad” when 3PO decides to sacrifice his memories. It’s a nice scene that’s undercut by the joke line.

• Re-inserted the scene where the Falcon is brought back to the Star Destroyer and Palpatine communes with Kylo, since I don’t need the footage from that for Leia’s death anymore.

• Removed the second time Rey mind tricks the stormtroopers. It’s now just the first interaction, followed by “does she do that to us?”

• Added back in Finn and Poe’s argument on Endor. Still trying to make it so Finn says “and so did Leia” as opposed to “and so does Leia”.

• Flipped Kylo’s redemption and Rey with Luke for continuity. She’s on Ach-To for a while, so it doesn’t make sense for him to still be standing in the exact same spot for a whole day. This also puts their “throwing away the saber” moments closer together for impact.

• Palpatine mentions Rey’s “weak” parents, but it’s framed as a dig at her as opposed to him actually knowing them.

• Rey now says “I’m a Jedi” instead of “I am all the Jedi”.

So it’s time for an update.

Progress is going well. I was recommended a deleted scene from TLJ with some usable Kylo footage by GMatias. These shots allowed me to have reactions (or lack of reactions) for Kylo during Leia’s death scene where he is not wearing his helmet, which means I now don’t have to cram all of Kylo’s stuff into the first 10 minutes of the movie. It’s a big breakthrough, and really helps fix the pacing early on.

Here’s how it looks now:

https://vimeo.com/690590688

Pacing is now a lot better in the first half, and allows for more flexibility in what I can cut back and forth to.

The Force Bond duel is in much better shape now as well, but I will likely have to do some more audio editing to make the music fit in better. The imporance of the scene is diminished when skipping the flashbacks to Rey’s parents, but I still think it’s turned out well as a fun little action beat, and we get some of Rey’s anger as well.

axlanian graciously played with the audio of the Sith Whispers to make them blend in better and sound more interesting.

https://vimeo.com/690595385

I will say that the workprint I shared is quite outdated now. I want to do a bit more tweaking and then I’ll do another workprint for feedback.

One thing I’m struggling with is now that I’ve gone back to both Luke and Leia’s sabers being blue, there’s two shots near the end that they’re both in together where I’m losing the crackling effect. If anyone who worked on that effect for HAL’s edit would be willing to add it in for those two shots, please reach out to me, I’d be very grateful!