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Spartacus01

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22-Nov-2022
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1-Mar-2024
Posts
209

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Post
#1530873
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

G&G-Fan said:

Bro really just hated on Buddhism, that’s kinda racist

Also if you actually took the time to learn the Buddhist principle of non-attachment you’d learn it’s basic common sense.

“The Buddhist concept of non-attachment is a constructive way to approach relationships. Here, attachment refers to an attempt to control things that you can’t control. When you try to grasp or control something outside of yourself, this causes suffering for yourself and the other person.”

I admit that I tend to be a very truthful person, and that I sometimes tend to throw completely unmotivated hatred at random. However, I actually don’t disagree with all the principles of Buddhist philosophy, I just think that a literal interpretation of them is not good, because I’m a very passionate person who thinks that the end justifies the means, to a certain extent. In any case, racism has nothing to do with my partial distaste towards Buddhism, because Buddhism is not a race, Buddhism is just a philosophy. Just as I don’t like Positivism, I don’t like Buddhism either. This has nothing to do with the racial affiliation of those who created these philosophies. Positivism was created by Westerners, Buddhism was created in India, and regardless of the racial affiliation of their creators, I don’t like both philosophies very much.

If you want, we can start a discussion about the validity of the Buddhist philosophy, but since it’s off topic in regards to the Prequel Trilogy, I don’t think this is the best place to do that. So maybe we can open a thread in the real life section of the forum. I just wanted to make it clear that racism has nothing to do with this.

Servii said:
This might be an unpopular opinion, but the whole idea of Jedi compassion where they “love everybody in a non-attached way” isn’t that great. It goes against human nature. If you try to love everybody in the world equally, you end up with a very shallow form of love.

This, this! Very much this!

Post
#1530864
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

G&G-Fan said:
The worshipping of Ahsoka and Qui-Gon, the hate on the Jedi like Obi-Wan, Yoda and Mace Windu, and how it’s warped the fanbase into believing that the prequels are actually a super brilliant critique on the Jedi Order.

The worshipping of Ahsoka is bad, I don’t like it either. Everything else is good, and should have been the actual interpretation of the Prequels (maybe it could have been if Lucas wasn’t obsessed with pseudo-Eastern bulshit).

Post
#1530860
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Look, I actually criticize Filoni very much, but this is one of those times in which I prefer his interpretation over Lucas’, not only because it’s much more compelling, but also because it works better with what’s shown on screen in the actual Prequel Trilogy.

We were told Vader was seduced to the dark side, not that he was a poor baby victim of bad Jedi teachings.

One thing doesn’t exclude the other. It can be both things at the same time, like 50/50. As I’ve said multiple times, the blame for Anakin’s fall shouldn’t be traced to just one person or a single group of people, but it can also be attributed to everyone at the same time, for different reasons. Everyone played a role.

We were also told the Jedi were in their prime before the Empire.

What Obi-Wan told to Luke could also be seen as a highly romanticized version of the events. I mean, of course Obi-Wan had to keep Luke fascinated and intrigued, so that he could eventually feel motivated enough as to embrace the Jedi path. In my opinion, to criticize stuff based on a literal interpretation of the Original Trilogy dialogue leads you nowhere. If everyone thought like this, then every Star Wars movie would suck except for Star Wars '77, because all the other movies more or less contradict some piece of dialogue from the original movie.

Post
#1530816
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Mocata said:

If only George had relinquished control and given directorial duties to others like with the OT it might have worked out better. But by that stage he believed his own legend so having another film like ESB with the likes of Kurtz and Kersh having creative input was impossible.

No, that’s not true. Lucas actually didn’t want to direct the Prequel Trilogy. He asked three different directors to direct the Prequels, including Steven Spielberg. But all these directors rejected his offer and said that he should do that himself, since they all trusted him and were convinced that he would do a great job. So, it’s not that George was arrogant, complacent or excessively self-confident, it’s just that he was forced to do it himself because everybody rejected his proposals. Also, what you’ve described is exactly what happened with Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. In that movie George was the man of the ideas, while Spielberg was the director. Guess what, everybody hated that movie anyway. So George having more control over the movies is not the real problem here, because people got what they wanted and still complained about it. In my opinion, the real problem is that people had too high expectations back when the Prequels were coming out, so it was virtually impossible to satisfy everyone. Of course the Prequels have some problems, and I’ve listed some of these problems in one of my previous posts. But I still think they’re not the disastrous movies everybody here like to depict them as.

Post
#1530640
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

I want to give my full opinion on the subject, because it almost may seem that I’m a Prequel apologist, when it’s not true.

In my opinion the Original Trilogy is better executed than the Prequels in terms of story and pacing. Yes, I don’t have many problems with most of the acting or the dialogue, but I think that some plot points were executed poorly. However, with some adjustments, edits and with the insertion of some deleted scenes, I think the Prequels can become as good as the Original Trilogy. That’s why I started creating my personal Prequel fan edits, because I think the movies are not as bad as everybody says, but they would be even better if they were fixed and trimmed in some parts.

The romance in Attack of the Clones is a clear example of this. I like the idea of Anakin being a socially and romantically illiterate teenager with a very awkward behaviour, but sometimes the execution was a bit over the top, so I just trimmed out some lines to make Anakin’s awkwardness to be more believable. Also, I never liked the scene where Anakin and Padmé kissed on the balcony near the Naboo lake, because I think their kiss on Geonosis, on the verge of death, should be their first kiss. Therefore, I’ve cut off that scene and replaced it with the deleted scene where the two of them have dinner with Padmé’s parents, then I removed every mention of the kiss from the fireplace scene, and I’ve also trimmed out some of Anakin’s monologue from that scene, to make it feel more consistent with the rest of his speeches throughout the movie. This way, the romance turns out to be more gradual and has a believable amount of awkwardness, but at the same time 90% of the original dialogue is still preserved. The romance is 80% believable in my opinion, but I’ve trimmed it out enough as to make it 100% believable (at least for me).

The Phantom Menace is another clear example of this. I have no problems with most of the plot, most of the acting, most of the dialogue, etc, but I think Jar Jar’s behavior is over the top in some parts. Jar Jar is a character whose clumsy and stupid behavior is supposed to counterbalance the serious behavior of the Jedi and Padmé, but at times his clumsiness is exaggerated beyond belief. Therefore, my intention is to cut some of his over the top behavior, thus leaving only the parts in which is clumsiness is believable, and can serve as a fresh and wholesome counterbalance to the Jedi’s and Padmé’s serious and stoic behaviour. Also, I don’t have a problem with most of the little Ani stuff, but I think the movie would benefit a lot from a simple change: instead of being accidental, I think it would be better if the destruction of the Trade Federation’s mothership was intentional on Anakin’s part. So, my intention is to basically adjust everything to make Anakin’s takeoff from the platform, his going into space and his destruction of the mothership as intentional on his part, to reinforce the image of the “best star-pilot in the Galaxy” of which Obi-Wan talks about in A New Hope.

What am I trying to say with this speech? Well, it’s simple: are the Prequels perfect? No, but it’s nothing so serious that it can’t be fixed by a simple fan edit, at least in my opinion.

Post
#1529996
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

StarkillerAG said:

Well, no matter how old you are, I really hope you’re lying, because basing your entire personality on a fictional child murderer is… questionable.

I’m sorry, but who said I base my personality on Anakin’s? I simply said that my way of talking in real life is similar to the way people talk in the Prequel Trilogy, and so it doesn’t bother me. That’s all. It seems to me that you’re all teaming up against me just because I’m not shitting on the Prequels.

Post
#1529993
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

Fan_edit_fan said:

Spartacus01 said:

StarkillerAG said:

Spartacus01 said:

a movie so poorly written as AOTC.

Yeah… No.

“Just being around her again is… intoxicating.”
“Attachments… FORbidden.”
“I’m haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.”
“Don’t leave. Your presence is soothing.”
And of course, the ultimate example:
“I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything’s soft… and smooth.”

I’m sorry, but if you can’t see how crappy half the dialogue in AOTC is (especially whenever Anakin’s on screen), you’re delusional. And the extremely subpar directing doesn’t do it any favors either.

Yeah, that’s basically the way I talk to people every day, and everyone loves me for that. So no, of course I don’t hate it.

Dude how old are you? Hahah. Let it go.

I’m 22. What does my age have to do with this discussion?

Post
#1529899
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

StarkillerAG said:

Spartacus01 said:

a movie so poorly written as AOTC.

Yeah… No.

“Just being around her again is… intoxicating.”
“Attachments… FORbidden.”
“I’m haunted by the kiss that you should never have given me. My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar.”
“Don’t leave. Your presence is soothing.”
And of course, the ultimate example:
“I don’t like sand. It’s coarse and rough and irritating, and it gets everywhere. Not like here. Here everything’s soft… and smooth.”

I’m sorry, but if you can’t see how crappy half the dialogue in AOTC is (especially whenever Anakin’s on screen), you’re delusional. And the extremely subpar directing doesn’t do it any favors either.

Yeah, that’s basically the way I talk to people every day, and everyone loves me for that. So no, of course I don’t hate it.

Post
#1529437
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

StarkillerAG said:

What makes the romance feel unbelievable for me, though, is the idea that Padme would ever fall in love with someone like that. Almost every time she and Anakin are on screen, there’s very little genuine attraction shown: It’s just Anakin obsessively ranting about his wet dreams, while Padme seems to be looking for the nearest exit at every possible moment. Them falling in love would be a lot more believable if one of them didn’t look physically repulsed by the other.

Let me tell you something: women are weird. They’re adept at hiding their true emotions and pretending they feel one way, when in reality they feel the exact opposite. I can assure you, I’ve witnessed women telling a man that they feel deeply bothered by their behavior, only to end up in a relationship with that same man. It happens in a lot of movies and TV shows as well. Women are fucking masterminds, they almost never say what they really want and what they really think. Men are the ones who directly say what they want, but women are not like that. They go around things, create hyperbolic speeches and often lie about their emotional state, because they want men to understand what they think, but without telling them directly. So, I don’t think there’s something weird or unbelievable about Padmé telling Anakin something but actually meaning something else. Besides, apart from the “It makes me feel uncomfortable” scene, I honestly don’t recall any other scene in which she seems repulsed by Anakin’s behaviour.

G&G-Fan said:

Also socially awkward nervous teenagers don’t speak in weird Shakespearean poetry.

The only scene where Anakin talks in a Shakespearean and refined way is the monologue scene in front of the fireplace. I totally agree about that specific case, and in fact I slightly trimmed the scene in my personal Attack of the Clones fan edit, to align it more with the rest of Anakin’s speeches through the rest of the movie. But other than that circumstance, I don’t remember Anakin talking in a Shakespearean way in any other scene.

Post
#1529422
Topic
What do you think of The Prequel Trilogy? A general discussion.
Time

The reason Episode II is the weakest prequel for me is that the love story between Anakin and Padme is supposed to be half of the focus of that movie and yet it’s almost completely unbelievable. The actors are TRYING their hardest to make the characters sound as good as possible but that damn Lucas directing just renders it impossible, resulting in some very cringe and even creepy scenes. Half the time, Anakin looks like an obsessive stalker rather than a lovestruck yet charming young man.

I honestly doubt that a virgin teenager, which is romantically illiterate and who’s filled with a lot of repressed sexual desires would act like a charming young man, it’s totally unrealistic. And I know that, because I had to deal with the same problems a lot of times during my teenage years. Lately I’ve been trying to improve myself and seem more self-confident, but believe me, it’s not easy when you don’t have experience. Also, sure, most women only find men who are self-confident attractive, but even if it’s hard to believe, there’s a small percentage of women who think insecure and awkward men are cute. Probably Padmé falls into this small category, so there’s nothing weird with that. Therefore, no, in my opinion there’s nothing unbelievable about the love story in Attack of the Clones, and I don’t think Anakin’s behavior is unbearable, because I’ve been in his place a lot of times. I know what it’s like to be in that kind of situation, I know what it’s like to be in love with someone and be incredibly awkward, so I’m able to put myself in Anakin’s shoes and to see the world with his eyes. I’m able to identify myself with him, therefore I don’t have a problem with the love story.

Post
#1527383
Topic
Unpopular Opinion Thread
Time

fmalover said:

Servii said:

I don’t like Qui-Gon. My problem isn’t so much with the character himself. Just the fact that he steals away character traits and importance that should have been given to Obi-Wan. Also, I think a lot of fans “oversell” him nowadays as being “the wisest Jedi.”

As I’ve posted a few times before, my biggest problem with Qui-Gon is that he acts the way a young eager Padawan would act, whilst Obi-Wan is very by-the-book and conservative despite being a novice. It’s like Lucas got the roles mixed up and went with it anyway.

To be honest, I actually like the idea of the master being more open-minded then the apprentice. It happened is some other movies as well, it’s not just a Star Wars thing. Besides, this makes things more compelling when it comes to Anakin’s fate.

Post
#1527382
Topic
Star Wars Headcanons
Time

Servii said:

Everyone has some degree of consciousness within the Force after death. The special Jedi training just gives them the added ability to manifest in the physical world. But basically everyone still exists in the netherworld, except for people who were completely consumed by the Dark Side (not even necessarily Dark Side users, but also people who were just consumed by selfish, negative emotions, like Tarkin or Jabba).

I think this is actually Canon. In fact, George Lucas said multiple times that Padmé and Anakin met again after death, so Padmé is of course still part of the Force.

Post
#1526594
Topic
What do you HATE about the EU?
Time

MinchD36 said:
there are contradictions like Luke Mother

It’s not a contradiction. Check out this video: https://youtu.be/7qH8m_zXRRg

Timothy Zahn Version of the Clone Wars

It’s not a contradiction. All the discrepancies between the Thrawn Trilogy and the Prequels have been explained by the pre-Disney Lucasfilm years ago. When Pellaeon talks about him remembering fighting Clones during the Clone Wars, he’s talking about the Battle of Seleucami from the Republic comics by Dark Horse. In the Seleucami arc, we see that the Separatist are trying to create an Army of Clones to fight the Republic, and that’s exactly what Pellaeon is referring to in the Thrawn Trilogy. Besides, when it’s stated that the Clones were the bad guys in the Thrawn Trilogy, they’re still talking about the Battle of Seleucami. So yeah, it’s not a contradiction. Sure, you can say that it’s a bit convoluted, but it’s not a total contradiction. The Thrawn Trilogy directly contradicts TCW, because in the show there’s no Battle of Seleucami and there are no Separatist Clones. But it doesn’t contradict the Clone Wars Multimedia Project and the Republic comics.

Sith becoming Force Ghosts

It’s not a contradiction with the Prequels. Sure, George Lucas stated that the Sith can’t become Force ghosts, but there’s nothing in the Prequels that suggests that. So no, it’s not a direct contradiction with the Prequel Trilogy.

Palpatine Resurrection the Prophecy of the Chosen One did not exist

You can come up with a billion possible explanations that can make the Chosen One Prophecy fit with Palpatine’s resurrection in Dark Empire. So no, it’s not a direct contradiction with the Prequels.

before 1999, Luke Jedi Order letting his Jedi get Married seems like this was something Normal with the Jedi before Lucas Prequels, Corellian Jedi,

Just because the Jedi had rules that forbade marriage in the Prequels doesn’t mean those rules always existed in the past and will always exist in the future. So no, it’s not a contradiction with the Prequels.

in Old Video Games like Dark Forces 1 and 2 or Shadows of the Empire the Empire seems to have ruled the Galaxy for more than 19 Years it doesnt look like the Prequels took place in the same Universe as those Games,

This is a purely subjective feeling, and it is not proof of any objective contradiction. Besides, in Shadows of the Empire, the Empire has been in control of the Galaxy for 25 years, not 19 years.

looks like Ashka Boda could have been the Leader of the Jedi Order before the Lucas Prequels and not Yoda or Mace Windu

Again, just because the Jedi had more rigid rules in the Prequels doesn’t mean they always had those rules. So again, it’s not a contradiction with the EU.

Post
#1525991
Topic
Ranking the Star Wars TV series
Time

So…

  1. Andor
  2. Clone Wars 2003
  3. The Clone Wars
  4. The Mandalorian
  5. Rebels
  6. The Book of Boba Fett
  7. Obi-Wan Kenobi

Haven’t seen any of the other stuff, and I’m not even interested in doing so. To be honest, I’m not even interested in watching the third season of The Mandalorian. Also, the only series I include in my personal Canon is Clone Wars 2003. I take all the other series as fun things to watch, but disconnected from the main universe.

Post
#1525566
Topic
What is Your Preferred Watch Order, and Which Versions (Fan edits/official releases)?
Time

StarkillerAG said:

Aside from the previously mentioned removal of the first two prequels, I also removed everything between Episode III and Andor (because none of it matters and most of it sucks), as well as the sequel trilogy (because they seem to be preparing for a “clean slate” in a new galaxy that will allow them to ignore the sequels, and because the sequels suck).

Call me stupid, but I honestly prefer to watch two movies that last for two hours instead of watching an entire TV show. Not only because I don’t like TCW and like the first two Prequels, but also for a matter of time. I don’t know, maybe I’m the lazy one? But I honestly don’t want to spend days watching a TV show when I can just watch the entire Prequel Trilogy in six hours.

Post
#1525050
Topic
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator & Time Travelling Revisionist...
Time

G&G-Fan said:

Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

I don’t enjoy things in Star Wars based on whether it was Lucas’ vision or not. I just like the interpretation that Anakin’s fall was not the Jedi’s fault because I think it makes Vader a stronger villain.

Obviously I wasn’t talking about you, I was just making a more general speech. As far as I’m concerned, I prefer the idea that Anakin’s fall was kind of everyone’s fault. Not just the Jedi’s fault, or Anakin’s fault, or Palpatine’s fault, but a mixture of them all. I like to think that it was everyone’s fault and that it was, in a way, something destined to happen anyway, no matter if it was Anakin or another Jedi. It was destined to happen anyway, because it was necessary to destroy the Old Republic to later fixing things in the New Republic and improving the Jedi under Luke’s teachings, as shown in the EU. But I also respect your opinion on the subject, of course.

Post
#1525020
Topic
<s>The inaccuracies in &quot;How Star Wars Was Saved in the Edit&quot;</s>
Time

The Prequels are so bad at conveying what Lucas was really trying to convey that people keep making head canons and being so off the mark they’re basically turning them into entirely different movies.

And that’s why the Prequels are actually good. They’re so bad at conveying what Lucas was really trying to convey that they turn out being good, because what Lucas was really trying to convey is… bad.

Post
#1525013
Topic
George Lucas: Star Wars Creator, Unreliable Narrator &amp; Time Travelling Revisionist...
Time

Mocata said:

Servii said:

I should clarify, there’s nothing inherently wrong with a creative changing their mind about something. All stories evolve in the telling of them, and writers are dynamic people who’s vision of their own work is prone to shifting over time.

For example, when JRR Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, it was just a straightforward children’s fantasy adventure story, in his mind. It wasn’t meant to be the prelude to the epic fantasy of LOTR. The Ring was just a magic ring Bilbo found, not the Ring of the Dark Lord himself, who also happened to be the Necromancer of Mirkwood. Tolkien even went back and rewrote the ending to the Gollum chapter of The Hobbit, to make the Ring more consistent with its portrayal in LOTR. And even when Tolkien first started writing LOTR, it started out as merely a sequel to The Hobbit, before ballooning into something bigger and grander.

In a similar way, Star Wars started out as just “the adventures of Luke Skywalker” before ballooning into a drama about the Skywalker family.

The point is, it’s ok that George’s story ideas morphed over time. The problem is that George tends to forget or deny that the change ever occurred. He says “It was always meant to be this way,” when it clearly wasn’t. That’s what people take issue with. If he were more upfront about having changed his mind about things, then people wouldn’t be misled into thinking otherwise.

George’s ideas morphed over time. But unlike Tolkien who loved the work, his languages, and spent time answering letters from fans… George seems to actively hate the fans who made the OOT a success, and doesn’t really like directing movies. The overall denial vibe is also very weird, but I think if the changes were any good people would complain a lot less. Instead it’s like he’s always working on a once classic car and all the tinkering is … well…

I agree. To be honest, I personally think George doesn’t understand what makes the fans like Star Wars. That’s why I basically ignore everything George says and why I base my Star Wars opinions on a Death of the Author point of view, rather than a Word of God point of view. In fact, it could even said that I like Star Wars despite of Lucas’ opinions, rather than because of them. For example, I absolutely hate Lucas’ ideas about attachment and about how the Force works, I find them to be very simplistic and boring. What keeps me from saying: “Well, perhaps Star Wars is not for me as a whole” are the alternative interpretation of these subjects given by the EU authors and characters, like Vergere’s philosophy about the Force and Luke’s ideas about attachment in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and The New Jedi Order. Besides, it’s absolutely impossible to find two quotes from George that don’t contradict each other, because the man changed his mind all the time. Therefore basing your ideas on George’s vision is impossible as well, because (apart from certain very core elements) he never had a solid and stable vision in the first place. So, the better thing you can do to enjoy Star Wars without going crazy is ignoring George’s opinions (unless some of them make sense to you) and judging everything based on a purely Death of the Author point of view.

Post
#1524973
Topic
Favorite movies besides any Star Wars movie
Time

American and English movies:

  1. Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
  2. Star Trek VIII: First Contact
  3. Stargate (1994)
  4. Roswell (1994)
  5. Roswell: The Aliens Attack (1999)
  6. Independence Day (1996)
  7. Back to the Future
  8. Men in Black (1997)
  9. Paul (2011)
  10. E.T.
  11. Scary Movie 3
  12. Fanboys
  13. Madagascar (2005)
  14. Cars (2006)
  15. Chicken Little
  16. The Simpsons Movie
  17. The Last Crusade
  18. Nuremberg (2000)
  19. Troy
  20. Wedding Crashers
  21. Couples Retreat
  22. You Don’t Mess with the Zohan
  23. ClIck (2006)
  24. Wild Hogs (2007)
  25. Neighbors (2014)
  26. Taken

Movies from my country and other countries:

  1. Le jeune Karl Marx
  2. Downfall (2004)
  3. Tre Uomini e Una Gamba
  4. Chiedimi Se Sono Felice
  5. La Leggenda di Al, John e Jack
  6. Tu La Conosci Claudia?
  7. Selvaggi (1995)