SparkySywer

Servii said:

Padme was cut down because Natalie Portman was asking for more money than George wanted to give her, so I wouldn’t be surprised if most of this plotline went unfilmed.

Wait, really? Where did you hear that?

I guess I’m making assumptions. In 2017 there was a leak of an earlier draft of Revenge of the Sith where Padme had a much bigger role, but was cut down because Natalie Portman was asking for more money. Happened before with Anthony Daniels in ESB. But I don’t actually know that that has anything to do with the deleted scenes, or that anything from that draft was filmed, so I shouldn’t have made that assumption.

I don’t know, I still feel like it’s definitely new for Star Wars that they’re trying to entertain us with Slasher Vader. We don’t see Slasher Vader in the OT, and it’s not a coincidence. They could’ve treated Hoth like the Rogue One hallway scene, but they don’t.

An important theme in the OT, which is somewhat continued in the PT and ST, is that the dark side isn’t badass. It isn’t spectacular. It’s deranged and pathetic. It’s definitely a little different that Rogue One and Mando focus on both heroes and villains murking mooks.

Do they? The only deleted scenes I can think of that actually improve the prequels are the Padme scenes from RotS. Giving her more agency is a good thing, but they don’t go anywhere. Maybe there could be more deleted scenes which give the Delegation of 2000 more purpose that we just haven’t seen, but I kind of doubt that. Padme was cut down because Natalie Portman was asking for more money than George wanted to give her, so I wouldn’t be surprised if most of this plotline went unfilmed.

Most of the other deleted scenes were cut for a reason. TPM and AotC are far better off without any of the deleted scenes (that we know about I suppose), and that’s including the ones that were re-inserted on re-releases. I feel like re-inserting deleted scenes would just be bloat.

Hal 9000 said:

As the death star prepares to fire on Alderaan, edit in real world footage of violent atrocities being committed on the planet’s surface in order to make it more understandable that the empire would want to destroy them.

If this was actually in the movies you’d have teenagers talking about how deep and complex it makes Star Wars

This convo is now like two weeks old, but I wanna say that I have never, ever heard a good criticism of a character being a Mary Sue or Gary Stu, and this has nothing to do with gender, Star Wars, or Rey.

Bluto said:

Funny this thread should come up - I was just wondering this the other day. I’ve mostly called it ESB, probably because that seems to be the more common abbreviation, but realise this is inconsistent with the other films. For example, people tend to include the “T” in “TPM”, “TFA”, “TLJ” and “TROS”.

If searching on Google for things related to Empire, “ESB” is far more lucrative.

I think the reason why TPM, TFA, TLJ, and TRoS caught on where TESB did not is because the first four only have two words if you exclude grammatical particles, but the Empire Strikes Back has three. Same thing with A New Hope, because if you can exclude “the” you should be able to exclude “a”.

I kinda don’t see how it would improve the PT enough for it to be worth the effort

I don’t think I’ve seen it called TESB in a good part of a decade

I forgot what thread I was in for a second and almost had a stroke

Have Rian write and JJ direct if they’re gonna collaborate. I often see it the other way around, but TLJ was the best written one and TFA was the best directed one, so I feel like it would work better that way around.

Servii said:

This one might be a little spicy.

Luke’s characterization in TLJ isn’t really about him being depressed. He’s not on the island because he’s depressed. He’s on the island because he made the rational decision that the galaxy is better off without him, and also he just so happens to be depressed.

I don’t know about the bunny girl

Anakin Starkiller said:

Omni said:

Yeah, not a flaw at all. Complaining about Carano’s firing should be a major red flag.

Strongly diasgree. What she said may have been really stupid but it wasn’t dangerous, and I’ve had with this cancel culture.

It’s not like she was fired because Disney didn’t like what she was saying, Lucasfilm chose not to re-hire her after her contract ran out because her transphobia made the lead actor not want to work with her.

CarboniteSolo said:

Vader was only trying to get the plans that were stolen. All these people were in his way shooting at him, it’s either sit there and let the firing squad kill him, or mow them down with a lightsaber. I myself, in that situation would have done the same thing.

Because if he loses the plans, he has to face the Emperor and the consequences for failing.

Darth Vader’s a fictional character though, justifying a story decision with in-universe facts doesn’t work. The writers could have just not had that be the case.

oojason said:

Servii said:

It’s important to understand that, when it comes to liking or disliking a fictional space movie, morality has no bearing on a person’s opinion. Whether or not you like a space adventure movie says nothing about you as a human being, because it’s just a movie.

I remember after TLJ came out, and for the next couple years, there was a massive wave of articles by journalists that tried to either trivialize or vilify criticizers of the film. “It’s just Russian bots.” “It’s just a small group of racist trolls online.” “They’re not real fans, anyway. They’re just manbabies who don’t understand the true meaning of Star Wars.” I heard all of these repeatedly from journalists, with similar sentiments even being repeated by Lucasfilm employees. Of course, antagonizing your own customers is never a good idea, no matter how little you care about them. But the whole thing was so bizarre, I still can’t fully wrap my head around it.

That was because it was true (the part about Russian bots, trolls spammers - the racists, sexists and homophobes - we even had numbers of them on here). There is a massive disconnect between criticising and outing these fuckwits - and ‘antagonizing your own customers’, as you claim.

This is true, but it’s at least worth mentioning that there’s a vocal minority of trigger-happy ST fans who’ll happily lump valid criticism in with bad faith actors.

Cadavra said:

Then there’s the narrative problem: Luke dies with his major unfinished business—restoring the Jedi Order—unfulfilled and presumably transferred to Rey (only for Abrams to end the Saga with Rey not doing anything about it either). That’s an inexcusable, inexplicable omission, a failure to deliver on perfectly-rational fan expectations, and one major point on which the old Expanded Universe will always have an edge over Disney canon.

This is the one thing I think TLJ did to screw over Episode 9, Luke probably should have lived. Whatever. I kind of think this was a Bob Iger or Kathleen Kennedy decision, the higher ups wanted each ST movie to be dedicated to one of the OT trio, and it’s an interesting coincidence that each one dies in “their” movie. Not that this is a defense of TLJ killing off Luke, but it’s interesting and worth mentioning.

oojason said:

Stardust1138 said:

Marcia Lucas spoke about this in Jonathan Rinzler’s Howard Kazanjian book. She debunks the narrative that she is the sole reason for “saving” the film.

Many of us on here are aware of the downplaying or ignoring of Marcia Lucas’ contributions to the films in the official Star Wars history - and applaud content which illustrates and highlights her input - along with the input and work of others too… yet there is now a narrative where she is the sole reason for ‘saving’ the film? And the above words debunked that narrative? Huh.

Come on man, I know you’ve heard this before. This isn’t new to you.

Ed Slushie said:

Also, a lot of the visual spectacle gets lost in compression because of the constant particle effects.

Only really if you’re watching on a hyper-compressed 700 MiB mp4 file

I’ve never been a huge fan of the hallway scene. It’s always come off to me like that’s not something Vader would do, never in the OT does he go around chopping up Rebels with his lightsaber. He doesn’t slice and dice Echo Base, and 15 minutes after Rogue One he doesn’t hallway scene the Tantive IV a second time. The Sith most likely to do that feels like Maul. Vader is a military guy, Palpatine is a politician, Dooku is somewhere in between those two. Maul is the deranged serial killer who’d chop up a room of rebels.

I think if audiences needed Rogue One to understand how evil Vader is, Star Wars as a whole is fucked

Found this on a website I’ve never gone on

thebluefrog said:

7 and 8 do not link together. The characters from 7 are not the characters from 8,

Rey was someone in TFA,

Snoke was a mysterious new emperor in TFA, TLJ said he was a joke nobody

This is just, literally factually false

Kylo was Vader obsessed in TFA, 4 minutes later in TLJ (in universe time) he isn’t

This is character development

When people defend 8, they are defending their love of the movie and their parasocial love of Rian, not its cohesiveness in the trilogy or how well it meshes with the other 2 films.

This is probably true but doesn’t actually mean anything. TLJ fans would probably still like TLJ even if it didn’t link up well with TFA, but it doesn’t change the facts.

and ROS he is back to Vader obsessed.

There is no way that Rian thought she was a secret Palpatine when he made 8.

ROS then said he was back to being a mysterious new emperor (clone thing). This is on record that JJ did not expect Rian to kill off the big bad unceremoniously.

These are true but have nothing to do with how 7 and 8 link up whatsoever.

For the record, I don’t really buy that the contradictions between 8 and 9 have anything to do with this feud between JJ and Rian. Especially given JJ’s reaction to TLJ, his Rian’s involvement in TFA and JJ’s involvement in TLJ, and JJ’s… entire mentality and behavior during the production. I think it’s more likely that JJ doesn’t care enough about or have enough of a concrete idea of where he wanted to take the characters and story of the ST to really agree or disagree with Rian’s decisions in TLJ.

I mean, if JJ always wanted Rey to be a Palpatine or a Kenobi or whatever, or Snoke to be Mace Windu or Plagueis, you’d think he’d put literally any of that in TFA. Or at least say something about it to Rian during the production of TLJ.

Servii said:

The Rebellion didn’t treat Luke that way. They didn’t hinge all their hopes on whether or not he showed up to help. Despite his abilities, he was still just one man, and one small part of a larger faction.

This is a good point, but given that there’s more than a generation between RotJ and TFA, and given the in-universe circumstances of the ST compared to the OT, it’s not like it’s unbelievable they’d put that much fixation on Luke in TFA but not in ESB or RotJ.

TFA puts in a lot more effort setting this up than setting up any other alternative. They spend a lot of time going on about how the galaxy views Luke as this legendary badass, whose mere presence would turn the tide of the war. Compared to the complete lack of time they spend on why Luke coming back would be a big deal, like if he was making some secret weapon on the island or looking for some ancient Jedi artifact.

Nah, I’m thinking long term. The film industry is not heading in a direction where a fourth Star Wars trilogy would be as profitable as the prequels and sequels were. Lucasfilm would make just as much profit, if not more, from spinoff movies and streaming shows.

Actually, I used to think Episodes 10-12 were inevitable, but now I don’t. Lucasfilm is definitely going to be putting more time into Disney+ shows from here on out, and while both spinoff movies were outperformed by all three ST movies, I don’t think that has anything to do with them being spinoffs. It just doesn’t look like they have a reason to make an Episode 10.

Thinking Luke’s return would be a big deal makes sense in-universe. I mean, of course it does. Luke is the last Jedi. It’s a pretty normal reaction for the characters to have to Luke being gone. Luke not really wanting to return is also the most logical conclusion of what was set up in TFA: “Do you think that I came to the most unfindable place in the galaxy for no reason at all?”

This weird internet mythology that Rian Johnson’s prime motivation in making TLJ was to completely subvert expectations is just not true. He just said that phrase once behind the scenes and it got plastered all over the marketing. Rian constantly spoke about the exact opposite: TLJ was made as a straight line continuation from TFA.

Anakin Starkiller said:

This is the story of one man taking over the Galaxy and those who fought against him.

This is the story of me playing DayZ, getting really good loot, bullying everyone on the server, and then dying.