Spaced Ranger

Who says THX 1138 is a niche film? Thomas Schrantz (A.K.A. Redbeard Math Pirate) knows about it:

   
http://www.flickr.com/photos/redbeardmathpirate/4255551875/in/photostream/
"Parts of THX-1138 were filmed in the Frank Lloyd Wright designed Civic Center in Marin, CA, although it was heavily modified through special effects, especially in the Director's Cut. [Taken on March 12, 2009] [Civic Center, San Rafael, CA, US] [Canon PowerShot S2 IS]"

Well that was a nice read -- the thread, that is.  :)  Here a few thoughts about it:

In keeping with the idea that this is a laserdisc preservation, it would seem best just to get the best capture, with any processing to minimize laserdisc/capture glitches, and put it on DVD for convenient play.

Is there anything else on the laserdisc to include? It would be nice to include scans of all the paper distributed with and around the laserdisc.

Thereafter, someone could do a restoration using this and/or other versions (there have been many). "Coilly" shouldn't be considered a "laserdisc glitch", as it shows up on other releases. Likewise, the edge enhancement. Fixing such belongs in a movie restoration. So, one step at a time.

A few non-laserdisc extras would be: language subtitles (including one from the creative Italian cut); "altered & missing shots/scenes" from a previous version on a TV-distribution 16mm print; and any TV ads/bumpers of the movie around the same time of this version's general release.

The DVD case artwork should be reminiscent of the laserdisc design. However, as that design is fairly ugly-looking, a focus on the robot policeman portrait would be an improvement. Also, I like the idea of a minimalistic DVD menu -- so think lots of white.

Once msycamore hands off the project resources, I'll know more of what he has for inclusion. In the meantime, I'll work on 2 snippets from the 16mm.

Space Kaijuu said:

I used to have this version: http://www.amazon.com/dp/6305078955/

A closer inspection of the The Complete Superman Collection -- Diamond Anniversary Edition (2000) package shows "DVD package design ©MM Image® Entertainment Inc.", while "program content and artwork ©1991 Bosko Video".

With your version, The Superman Cartoons Of Max & Dave Fleischer (1998), the package also has different credits between content and packaging (hard to resolve the blurry Amazon package picture to be more specific).

It may be both of these were simple repackaging of the same original content (verifiable with screen-caps from the older one).

Also, in the process of looking this up, I came across ImageFX's article Fleischer's Superman lands on YouTube http://beta.imaginefx.com/fleischers-superman-lands-youtube-61128. Warner Bros. posted on YouTube these first nine episodes of their DVD release -- up to 480p and with very good video quality (like the above posted samples!):
https://www.youtube.com/user/WarnerBrosOnline/search?query=fleischer
Thanks, WB! But, as davextreme noted, they are flawed and need fixing.

That WB 2008 DVD is clearly superior to previous releases shown here so far. (I've added click-able links to Image Entertainment's thumbnails for full-sized pictures and better comparison.)

Here is what the DVDs and a videotape show on possible edited dialogue:

Image Entertainment DVD 2000
• "... truth and justice ..."
• "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?" [fadeout over "that's a dangerous mission"]

WinStar DVD 1998
• "... truth and justice ..."
• "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?" [fadeout over "that's a dangerous mission"]

GoodTimes DVD 2002
• "... truth and justice ..."
• "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?" [fadeout over "that's a dangerous mission"]

Media Home Entertainment videotape 1985
• "... truth/justice ..." [one of lots of random film splices in this area]
• "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?" [fadeout over "that's a dangerous mission"]

It looks like "truth and justice" is not an issue for later restored releases, which fixed the film damage. On the other hand, a possible incomplete "that's a dangerous mission" is still questionable -- that hasty fadeout over dialogue does seem awkward. Only an even earlier consumer release (if one exists) or an intact 16mm print would be definitive.

Space Kaijuu said:

Does anyone know how this compares to ...

Well, let's start with these -- and anyone with other releases please cap & post:

captures =  Main Menu * Production Opening * Title * "The Mad Scientist" * Production Closing

                   
The Complete Superman Collection -- Diamond Anniversary Edition

by Image Entertainment (DVD disc files dated 2000)

                   
Max Fleischer's Superman   ::   Superman The Lost Episodes
  
by WinStar (DVD disc files dated 1998)

                   
Superman vs Monsters & Villains   ::   Superman vs Nature & War
 
by GoodTimes (DVD disc files dated 2002)

althor1138 said:

Here is a clip of my Diamond Theater750HD PCI-E card. This is the composite output from my pioneer dv-360 to the Theater750HD.

AntcuFaalb said:

I guess the only thing left is to see if it exhibits the same AGC issues as the USB one. If it doesn't, then this is definitely the best capture card on the market.

althor1138 said:

Here is the "Pluge Pulse" test with a comparison of the digital file on the right.
...
So what was the verdict on the pluge test?  Has anybody checked it out yet?

Any conclusion on this? I so would like to get the best capture card on the market for this kind of work.  ;)

SilverWook said:

... a recreation of the long defunct GP rating card, (THX's original rating, believe it or not) ...

Now there's something to add to a THX 1138 Theatrical Restoration -- if only we knew what the theatrical release looked like. Maybe that GP rating is a clue?

Wikipedia said:

Motion Picture Association of America film rating system
...
The ratings used from 1968 to 1969 were:
    Rated G: General Audiences – Suggested for General Audiences (All Ages Admitted)
    Rated M: Mature Audiences – Suggested for Mature Audiences (Parental Discretion Advised)
    Rated R: Restricted – Persons Under 16 Not Admitted Unless Accompanied by Parent or Adult Guardian
    Rated X: Adults Only – Persons Under 18 Will Not Be Admitted
...
From M to GP to PG
Many parents were confused by the "M" and "R" ratings, thinking that the former was the "sterner" rating. In 1970, "M" was renamed to "GP" (intended to indicate "General audiences, Parental guidance suggested"), then revised in 1972 to "PG".

Could the early TV broadcasts -- with cuts & zooms to minimize Lucas porn -- be the General,Parental (GP) theatrical release? Georgie ... you naughty boy ...

When overlapped and aligned (heads & plane) with the 1998 DVD, not only did GL change Milner's obituary date from June to December ... but he also had the text disproportionately lowered!

As C-3P0 might say, "Will this never end?"  :O

I'm checking in (at this apropos moment) while catching up on this thread (reading it all for inclusion & presentation ideas missed by previous inconsistent lurking) and checking up with msycamore for his direction of the project (PMs). A few more pages and I'll be reading this entry.  :)

@ AntcuFaalb

Very cool about your ... 3 ... laserdisc ... copies!

  :O

So, there's no need for me to get msycamore's problematic files to continue his fix-up work (or obtain a possible SilverWook 2nd try at a better capture)? Were you planning on doing just the capture (your awesome capture-equipment-chain should do that easily) or completing the entire project (this is, after all, a preservation)?

Either way, documenting your procedure (and what it does superior to an ordinary recording) would be greatly appreciated, I'm sure, by others attempting to do the same in similar projects.

timdiggerm said:

What are the chances of a similarly easy correction for Great Escape?

Just as easy (for color correction). Check out dvdmike's The Great Escape Non DNR/Teal and Orange Preservation thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Great-Escape-Non-DNR-Teal-and-Orange-Preservation/topic/15445/

dvdmike said:

... it was a full degrain/regrain Lowry confirmed, it is just how they do things 

This is awful !

Competition should easily put Lowry out of business.

Turisu said:

Aliens: Teal, teal & more Teal. :(

NOT ON BLU-RAY - Orange and Teal, or How “Re-Mastering” is Distorting Our View of Classic Films (link from OP) shows this stupefying Aliens Blu-to-DVD comparison:

Fortunately, it can be easily color corrected with a few histogram settings (in a paint program):
HISTOGRAM
RED       Gamma 1.6  Midtones +15
GREEN   Gamma 1.1  Midtones +20
BLUE      Gamma 1.1  Midtones -3

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Speaking of Aliens (Extended Edition, though)... what about a spoRved version?

Your use of the Avisynth ColourLike() should do short work of Aliens -- except the problem areas of crushed blacks and blown-out whites, which this Blu-ray has.

BTW, I was impressed by your nice work on The Matrix correction and tried that filter (in your ColourLikeFBF function) ... but kept getting an error message "Evaluate: System exception - Access Violation ([ScriptClip], line 5)". What did you do to solve this?

SilverWook said:

One THX fan website did have it's own forum, but it was pretty dead last time I peeked at it.

I'm guessing the http://thx-1138.org/ forum.

THX11384EB said:

... the Warner Shop ... list in the details tab that it has a running time of 88 minutes. However, when you check out the Digital Download version (Windows Media - Buy), it lists the running time as 86 minutes ...

The George Lucas (Latest) Director's Cut of THX 1138 (because he's made more than one) is 88m22s, as it shows in Media Player Classic HC. If one removes the first 15s for the added WB logo (to the tune of "As Time Goes By"), the next 45s for the Buck Rogers set-up sequence, and the last 4s for the added "© 1970 & 2004 Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc." card, that stll leaves 87m18 -- 19s shy of a round-down to 86m.

It's probably a mistaken look-up from a previous release -- just like that old Italian(?) 96m mis-read/type of the actual 86m. Has anyone seen this WB download to verify?

SilverWook said:

Welcome aboard, Spaced Ranger!

Thanks! Although, with all the times THX 1138 has been changed, it should have it's own forum (just like with Star Wars).  :D

msycamore said:

Just to let people know, I'll pass the torch to Spaced Ranger who was kind and offered to help out with this. That is great as I rarely find the time and motivation on this these days. And I'm sure he'll do a great job and gets things moving on this ever delayed project.

*cymbal-hit* Thanks for the intro, msycamore. Glad to help.

"It would be nice to have three additional officers."
As I PM'ed to msycamore, I would use some of my free time (little as it is) to get this moving according to his design. My thinking was to have it organized like a parallel development so that anyone can drop his work into it or pull the need-work sections out of it, for those who could get it done better/faster. (My resources are more limited than most, so I'll need help with the logistics of moving things around.)

"I want to help you. You can help me. Here. Take a biscuit."
Also, with the possibility of new/renewed sourcing, much of the make-work/fix-ups, with which msycamore had to deal, can hopefully be eliminated.

"The new alignment!"
Once I confer with msycamore, I'll post the layout and what can be done as mentioned in previous posts (great work you all have done / are doing).

msycamore said:

Spaced Ranger said:

How's the THX 1138 preservation coming along?

That's a quite demonstrative picture of where the project is at. ;)

I was afraid of that.  :)

"Can you hear me? Stay calm. Everything will be all right. The project seems to be jammed. Please check the PM on your side. Everything will be all right. We are here to help you."

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Spaced Ranger, could you elaborate an avisynth script for your method?

I never found an Avisynth plug-in that accepts a paint program's histogram functions numbers. However, in the Song Of The South thread, I noted that VirtualDub with a plug-in (Gradation Curves v.1.46b by BBugBunny, A.K.A. Alexander Nagiller) allows for a manual reconstruction of the histogram graph:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Song-Of-The-South/post/641915/#TopicPost641915

I know it's cludgy but that's the best I could find.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Using one of these two methods (ColourLike or BDluma+DVDchroma) it's possible to retain the BD resolution with DVD color timing; now, if the DVD color timing is right, this methods could be used to do a proper restoration.

The problem with both these techniques is that the sources are so different in both luminance and color, their selective recombination still suffers from the Blu-ray's foibles. Getting luminance is not the same thing as getting resolution.

Fortunately, there is an alternative -- color correction. As long as this was not some George Lucas re-imagined "director's cut" hi-def, a single correction might be usable over the entire movie. Worse, some scene-by-scene exceptions. Anyway, here's a very quick proof-of-concept going by the numbers (of the histogram graphs):

This is what needs to be changed -- everything except the resolution. :)

This DVD is the target -- an end result, only in higher resolution. Notice the RGB graphs. These are what is to be duplicated on the Blu-ray. By eye, it is easy to use histogram functions to squeeze down and slide around each Blu-ray graph to roughly match it's DVD counterpart:

HISTOGRAM
RED       Low 16  Gamma 1.2  Midtones +25
GREEN   Low 16  Gamma 1.2  Midtones +25
BLUE      Low 12  Gamma 1.3  Midtones +20

The original Blu-ray is in grey and the red overlay is the result of spectrum squeeze-down ("Midtone: compress") and slide-around ("Low" and "Gamma"). Done (except for fine tuning the numbers -- always use an eye-dropper for dispassionate precision)!

Of course, if you wanted to repair any Blu-ray crush or blow-out, those areas would be patched in from the non-crushed, non-blown-out DVD itself.

Some interesting 2001 release versions info in this thread -- don't worry, only 3 pages this time:
Cinerama 70mm 2001 preservation. Is it possible?
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Cinerama-70mm-2001-preservation-Is-it-possible/topic/15358/

and of particular note is this referenced article:
The Big Picture: 2001 on Video by Thomas E. Brown
http://www.visual-memory.co.uk/amk/doc/brown2.html

which suggests that the final MGM release (with better detail from 65mm film-to-tape):
The MGM CAV 3-disc 25th Anniversary Laserdisc set (1993)
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/04985/ML103104/2001:-A-Space-Odyssey:-25th-Anniversary-%281968%29

may be useful with the Criterion release (Kubrick color correction from 35mm scope) for a merged-version -- like my Disney's Zorro two-source YouTube-color/TV-luminance  proof-of-concept:

Why stop at the previous movie & soundtrack releases and the audiobooks?

BTW, there is an American dramatization of The Hobbit, too:

The Hobbit (1979) (Radio Drama) - Chapter 1: An Unexpected Party
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7cKwz4n1jo
"This radio drama adaption of J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit is an abridged recording produced by The Mind's Eye (not to be confused with BBC's radio drama adaption from 1988) and directed by Bob Lewis. It was originally broadcast on National Public Radio (NPR) and have been distributed by Jabberwocky, Soundelux and HighBridge Audio/HighBridge Company on both cassette tapes and compact discs."

J.R.R. Tolkien - The Hobbit - NPR Radio Drama [96]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cklZwRBv2Ck
"In 1979 the US National Public Radio broadcast a radio dramatization of J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. It was produced by The Mind's Eye and has since been made available by several different companies. ... The Mind's Eye also produced a six-hour adaptation of The Hobbit." -Wikipedia: The Lord of the Rings (1979 radio series)

There are ... videogames with lots of sound effects, music, dialog, and even cut-scene video:

The Hobbit (2003 video game)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit_(2003_video_game)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkdKJniWWEs
The soundtrack was a free download released as advertising for the game.

And how about all those supposed "rip-off" "inspired by" CDs? Well, there is at least one that was never a rip-off ... just a musician's soundtrack if he were to compose one:

Music Inspired By Middle Earth by David Arkenstone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjzLmA3ryGk
This one is not free -- be sure to buy it (independents need your support -- especially one so dedicated as to change his name to a Tolkien creation).
http://www.amazon.com/David-Arkenstone/e/B000APYTKM/

poita said:

Without going through the 56 pages of the THX thread, I have the Japanese LD with the all white cover and THX-1138 written in the middle in metallic writing. Is it worth doing, or has it already been done?

Well, since I was the one who asked, I took up The 56-Page Challenge.  :)

... six hours later ...

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations-Italian-Cut-available-see-1st-post/post/478709/#TopicPost478709
On page 20, msycamore compares US to Jap captures (Jap were slightly lighter).

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations-Italian-Cut-available-see-1st-post/post/511598/#TopicPost511598
On page 31, msycamore compares US/Jap to UK captures (cropping was different -- sometimes critically so).

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-preservations-Italian-Cut-available-see-1st-post/post/515428/#TopicPost515428
On page 34, msycamore compares US to Jap captures (across 3 laserdisc players). He also noted, thereafter, "... you can clearly see that the US transfer is the best looking, the Jap have a different black level but it also have lots of chroma noise which is almost totally absent on the US disc."

So, I'd say, if your machine is the best available on the forum and produces noticeably improved captures, go for it anyway ... if you will!

@ SilverWook

LOL :D

But I was thinking of the capture with this machine. Your THX 1138 capture looked good but with this machine it should be awesome, right?

@ poita

Of course, I was thinking of extras on the discs as well, for a complete preservation. Can't pass up these rare opportunities ... as long as you don't mind.  ;)

Wow, the X9 is supposed to be an excellent laserdisc player!

I can definitely think really good quality full captures of

THX 1138

and

2001: A Space Odyssey
[Criterion CAV 3-disc Laserdisc set (1989) - Kubrick approved CC]

would be awesome! Do you have those?

SilverWook said:

Is the Bob Hope one where Mark Hamill was a guest? My parents wouldn't let me stay up to watch it...

Don't tell your folks ... but I'm sneaking you this transcript in lieu of the actual TV special (which seems to be listed on a torrent as The Bob Hope All Star Christmas Comedy Special, 1977, with cast Mark Hamill, Olivia Newton-John, Frank Oz, Jim Henson, Bob Hope, Perry Como, Dave Goelz, Richard Hunt, Jerry Nelson and others):

Bob Hope's Christmas Specials Became an American Holiday Tradition
http://voices.yahoo.com/bob-hopes-christmas-specials-became-american-holiday-6071818.html

Hearth Invader

The year George Lucas propelled Star Wars across America's movie screens, we couldn't pass up an opportunity to spoof it. Our version, entitled "Scar Wars," starred Olivia Newton-John as Princess Hialeah, Perry Como as Luke Sleepwalker, and Hope as Barf Vader. The epic would recount the abduction of Santa Claus, complete with his sled and reindeer, literally gobbled up by Vader's space vehicle. (We ordered a small model of a space ship with a set of iron jaws in the front from the prop department.) ...

(Hope, dressed in a sinister-looking black leotard with a cape and wearing a Darth-like mask, crashes through the wall.)

HOPE: Sorry I'm late. The traffic was nose cone-to-nose cone! ...

Those are fairly good custom products.
Maybe he'd come out with a "George Lucas In Fan-boy Hell: the Star Wars Convention elevator diorama" (courtesy Robot Chicken):