I listened to mono films on Laserdisc with a plain two channel stereo system for years with no unusual effects. I would think most modern amps still have plain old stereo settings?
Since the other prints that guy was selling didn't even go as high, you may be right!
I got outbid. :/
Anyone who would pay almost $400 for a pan and scan print (and probably sanitized for U.S. tv) is more crazy than me!
At least there are real cases for the discs. The studios have come up with some awful gimmick Blu Ray packaging lately. As if those painfully flimsy eco cases weren't bad enough!
Fox released the most recent Narnia flick in this tri fold cardboard thing, in which some people found the discs hotglued into the paper sleeves! Walmart has the movie in a regular case, but zero extras.
The original Back To The Future BR set had it's own horror packaging...
Very interesting, and you lucky guy!
Sounds like someone did a Dr. Frankenstein on an old print that was chopped up, but missed it's date with the landfill?
I have a plugin for firefox that does that. It saved as a 4 meg mp4 file. It's kind of blocky full screen though.
Maybe ask the guy who posted it nicely, and we could get a better copy?
And if anyone here is going after that 16mm print, now is a good time to speak up. ;)
Great find, msycamore! I like how they "Star Warred" the title.
And they got one of the most recognized voice over guys to narrate it! His name escapes me at the moment, but he was literally the "voice" of ABC television in the U.S. in the 70's and 80's.
That pesky late 90's film stock TPM was shot on is a real bitch to remaster. ;)
People actually get paid to write this sh*t?
TNT made the movie. Apparently Warner Bros. distributed it.
Television movies released overseas is nothing new. ;)
I've got to say, it's really cool seeing the credits that way! :)
zombie84 said:
Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
zombie84 said:
One way to appreciate what good mono would sound like is to simply listen to a good stereo mix in mono;Really? In some cases, listening to a stereo mix in mono will cause some low end phase cancellation, depending on if the stereo mix was engineered specifically to be listenable in mono or not. The better mono mixes are separately-made mixes produced with mono listening in mind.
By the way, the mono mix used in the PG was from the 16mm film, not from VHS.
I agree. But for someone who's main point of reference comes from the Belbucus restoration as DJ's does, the clarity and fidelity of a stereo fold-down offers a clue as to the potential quality of a true professionally-presented mono mix of a more recent film. A lot of releases from the late 1970s-early 1980s, when mono mixes were done separately alongside stereo mixes at the height of the technology, have not been released, opting for the stereo mixes as a substitute. Instead, you normally have stuff from the 1960s and earlier, which lacks the fidelity of the twilight of the era starting around 1975. Mono mixes from the latter 1980s were usually stereo fold-downs, and so are suplerfluous. This is why I wonder about the availability of stuff like Taxi Driver, Close Encounters, or maybe ST: The Motion Picture and Alien. If you want to hear a good mono mix, listening to King Kong and Citizen Kane, with all of their recording and layering limitations, are not necessarily going to bowl you over. Some releases never even had distinct mono mixes, like Superman, which I believe only had a stereo mix in its original release.
I thought the Dolby mono playback issue was technically moot by 1979, eliminating the need for a mono mix?
I can think of only one theater I went to that probably didn't have Dolby in 1982, and it was the very model of a crackerbox that should have been demolished. If Spielberg had known E.T. was running in that hole, he would have cried!
Interestingly enough, a lot of early RCA videodiscs are mono, and make a point of having the disclaimer "mono sound for videodisc" somewhere on the label for films that obviously were released in stereo. You have me wondering if they used fold downs or not for certain films...
zombie84 said:
As to what might be a good mono test drive, Jaws was released a few year ago with the original mono mix intact. Terminator has the original mono as well, but Terminator is a lower budget film that is a bit rough around the edges. Mad Max has the original mono too, but again a low budget flick. I wish I could be more helpful in recommending a good mix. Most films from the 70s, before stereo caught on, haven't had their original mono included, but most classical-Hollywood films from the 50s, 40s and 30s have. I think the DVDs of Robin Hood and Citizen Kane only have the mono, no remixing or anything. It's actually a bit hard to find a really well-preserved mono mix for more recent films, because they usually either remix in 5.1 or present the stereo version instead, thinking no one cares about the mono. It's only in the last five or six years that the practice has started gaining ground, partly in reaction to all the 5.1 remixes (as in the case of Terminator and Jaws). Maybe someone else can recommend something--Taxi Driver or Close Encounters? Star Wars should be the showboat example of mono mixing, but unfortunately it has never been formally released, instead pieced together from second-hand sources by fans. I have a feeling that when the Academy gave the film its sound awards, they were basing it off the mono mix, which not only was the most common but the one considered the best by the filmmakers and therefore more likely for submission.
Someone needs to ask Ben Burtt about this someday!
Oh crap! Why couldn't this be in scope? The color looks great!
http://cgi.ebay.com/THX-1138-16mm-Film-1971-/130539071797?pt=US_Film&hash=item1e64bc2935
The boxes the other film prints the seller is offering have interesting markings...
I think Puggo Grande sounds pretty neat for a 16mm optical mono track. I've cranked it up a few times. ;)
So, all we need then are thirty people to put up 100 bucks each, and buy Puggo the new rig? ;)
I got the Beatles Mono box last year, and was blown away by it. I may have had an out of body experience while listening to Sgt. Pepper pumped out of all my speakers. Or maybe I was just really exhausted at the time.
I miss Ringo yelling "I got blisters on me fingers!" at the end Helter Skelter though! ;)
And I did buy all the albums that were true stereo as well.
dark_jedi said:
I have a center, and I have a front & left tower speaker, mono can either play out the center if it is 1.0 or out both my towers and not my center, either way I do not enjoy that audio at all, maybe if I was still watching on my old picture tube TV with no sound setup I would love it, all I am saying is with the setup I just spent a lot of money on, I want HD audio, is that wrong?
Damn, it is like if you don't share the same opinion around here anymore, you are the "bad guy".
We all want HD audio. Why do you think us old Laserdisc guys were bitching about Dolby Digital soundtracks on DVD a decade ago? 5.1 is sweet, but compression sucks. It was two steps forward one step back in a way.
Blu Ray finally got us back to lossless sound no matter the number of channels in the mix.
No "mono movie" mode like Yamaha amps have, or one to spread the sound around your speakers? What do you do with an old movie that hasn't been remixed?
I saw Singin' in the Rain on the big screen last year, and the mono was pretty darn good. Theaters had great sound systems even in the 50's, and mono was not being pumped out of one tiny speaker.
Stereo tv broadcasts have been around since the mid 1980's. (And there was FM simulcasting before that.) I noticed a lot of old shows like I Love Lucy were processed on the fly into fake stereo at the time. Not sure when or why that practice was discontinued.
I am not opposed to remixes done with respect and care. (Something that wasn't done with the '94 SE DVD of Star Wars.) But, when it's done to movies where the original personnel are no longer around, that's when irritating mistakes creep in. Wizard of Oz and Pinnochio are good examples of this.
To the best of my knowledge, it was shot with overseas theatrical release in mind, and in widescreen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTj4B7buDPM
Note the Dolby Stereo logo on the closing credits. :)
I sometimes think 7.1 and these new audio codecs were invented to make us all buy new amps to go with our new Blu Ray players. ;)
I don't even have wall space to put more speakers in my main setup. I'm not sure any of my local theaters have 7.1 outside of the IMAX screen either, but I digress...
How were credit scrolls done in the 70's? It was all printed on a big plastic roll that was cranked in front of a camera, right? At least that is how it was done for tv at the time. Character generators were around, but often looked a lot like PONG.
none said:
adywan wrote: That is true with ESB too. The original version of ESB was the 70mm version as this was the one finished first and contained some differences from the 35mm print.
Rinzler's Making of ESB discusses this on page 333 'A Twist Ending' section. One of the shots they extended and added dialog to was of the farewell at the end. A shot of the Falcon docked under the cruiser was not in the 70mm. Anyone know of any others?
Baronlando wrote: There were only a measly few 70mm prints on opening day, out of 40-ish theaters, so if it's a 70mm/35mm difference, I guess they both count as opening day/original?
This is a possibilty, early prints verses prints made as popularity grew. The two opening day thing is definitely a complication in the 'original' debate.
So at this point it's throwing out ideas of ways to figure out why these differences occurred and thinking about other locations they might have showed up. Was thinking are there any books from 1977-81 in which the credits might have been written out. Maybe a press book, art book or the original novel? Were the screen plays printed out then? Another idea to follow through on, anyone know where 16mm prints were generally created from back then? Did they tend to be source from 70 or 35mm? Need to float the question to a larger audience see what comes back.
http://www.theforce.net/timetales/misc/arcana/arcana.asp
The program handed out at some theaters is there with the credits. The screenplay and credits are in "The Art of Star Wars" book, which was still in print last time I looked. They added an extra chapter or two about the SE in the 90's, but the original content was unchanged.
So I can give away the old 2 disc DVD then?
I briefly attended Monsterpalooza in Burbank last month, and there were some impressive life size sculptures of Darkness and Meg Mucklebones on display.
Robert Picardo was there for autographs on Saturday, but alas I was there on Sunday. I wonder how many people brought photos of Meg for him to sign? ;)
skyjedi2005 said:
We don't even know if Kurtz's alleged Jedi Treatment is even true and we won't until Rizner's book comes out.
He has already blasted some of the Kurtz hero worship out of the water with the empire book which proves Lucas had much more involvement than fans want to acknowledge.
Once Upon a Galaxy documents Lucas' involvement with Empire pretty well. I can't imagine why fans would think otherwise.
Good news, everyone! It's hitting DVD in September, and it's not a DVD-R!
And damn! I need to get a copy of Mother Lode! ;)
none said:
Even Kenner got in on that inside joke!
