According the the Star Wars on video page, those sets do not actually have DTS.
http://www.swonvideo.com/dvd/vdvd5-staranh.htm
IIRC, you would still need the corresponding film print for the discs to play.
Computer animation outfit Robert Abel and Associates were contracted to do visual FX for TMP, but they were a casualty of a troubled production. I don't know if anything they worked on ever made it into the finished film, even though they did get a screen credit.
Double ditto!
There was a lot of angry debate on the Laserdisc newsgroup about DD soundtracks sounding a heck of a lot better on LD than their newer DVD counterparts during the brief time both formats coexisted.
The prevailing theory was that 5.1 DVD soundtracks were being compromised to be more compatible with being downmixed in the player to pro logic for those with older receivers.
DVD soundtracks never really wowed me until I got my first Dolby Digtal decoder, but I had years of listening to uncompressed LD soundtracks as to what I thought things should sound like. I didn't get that "WOW!" Laserdisc feeling back until I heard my first PCM Blu Ray audio track.
I think it was the Grindhouse double feature. It turned up on a couple Hercules DVD's I got earlier this year.
I'm still trying to find a trailer or two to go with that. I'm taken with the idea of THX "grindhouse" style now.
Archive.org has many of the 1970's era theater bumpers for download, but I don't know if they're of high enough quality for our purposes...
http://archive.org/details/Drive-inOurFeaturePresentation-colorSwirl
In spite of SE changes, I thought the soundtrack for SW had plenty of oomph in DTS. (The one and only time I saw it in the theater.)
Let's not restart the grappling hook debate in here, that path leads to madness.
And it sounds like some of us need to start an AG-1980 fan club. ;)
Good news! Thanks for the update.
So there is a chance the original 70mm mixes could be recreated with these?
I've read conflicting stories over the years about whether TMP's FX elements were saved. It's debatable whether Paramount would have footed the bill to recomposite those shots where the matte lines are very visible.
I have noticed that in some early Next Generation episodes, a clean shot of the TMP Klingon battlecruiser was used. (Same angle and lighting as in the film, but new background.) This may have been totally replaced in the new HD versions though.
Ouch!
You will never find a more wretched hive of smut and illegality. ;)
No problem. It will be interesting to find out if they are different than the Blu Ray mixes.
The mind boggles! How many people went into a porno shop looking for a copy of Star Wars?
"Hey kids! I'm off to the Smut Shoppe, you want me to pick you up something?"
It does look interesting...
At the "XP" speed I use, it's comparable to a "Superbit" DVD in terms of bitrate, plus you can have a PCM track.
I only wish I had one of those MUSE players, but I work with what I've got. My 704 was considered to have the best video and sound quality in it's day. It was my main player for CD's back then.
My JVC recorder is considered to be one of the better models in spite of some design flaws. I lurked around videohelp.com a long time before buying one. Some of the posters there really know their stuff.
I'd really like to buy a Blu Ray recorder, now that industrial models are out in the states, but the price is still pretty steep.
msycamore is getting quite a lot out of my THX captures. I didn't think ancient letterboxed LD video resized to anamorphic could look that good.
evan1975 said:
doubleofive said:
And that TMP:DE, which was the director's "final cut" (which he didn't have for the original release) isn't available on Blu-ray because Paramount is too cheap to re-render the new effects. To be fair, why aren't we up in arms about NOT having this "special edition"?
Well, I am! I preferred that version! That's what a special edition should be. Fixing what didn't work and leaving the rest alone. They should have fixed Star Trek V while they were at it. I've refused to buy those Trek Movie Blu-rays because they all contain the theatrical cuts only.
Some of the films seem to have had someone go DNR crazy on them too. I saw Insurrection on cable recently, and some scenes were like a ghoulish wax museum. My DVD's will suffice until Paramount double dips.
Isn't it illegal to hook up a Blu Ray player to an analog tv set? ;)
I look back, and I'm amazed I enjoyed letterbox movies on a screen that size for almost two decades!
I tend to turn CX on for analog audio if the disc has it. My impression over the years is using it on a non CX encoded disc muffles the audio. I couldn't really hear the background noise in the 80's, so either it's my gas tube monster aging, or that I have better speakers now.
Some modern players are supposed to automatically turn CX on if detected. IIRC, one other player I owned in the early 90's made it pretty hard to turn it off. Most 90's players I've seen can only switch it on and off with the remote.
What I would suggest is capturing a scene you know by heart with both settings, and see if you can hear any differences.
If you're after a pre-restoration Vertigo, this is probably the disc to get. I don't own it though.
http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/01974/40082/Vertigo-%281958%29
There are several copies on Ebay at the moment.
I would send you DVD captures of the discs, at the highest quality record settings, with PCM audio. I've been doing this since the THX 1138 preservation got started, and it's worked out so far. :)
I only recall seeing the Phantom Menace test shot slipped in somewhere on the Episode III DVD. It's the one Frink used in his edit.
Guess I'll have to rewatch the Episode II DVD extras sometime.
I gave my old Pan and Scan Raiders LD a spin recently. The labels on both sides nearly fell off inside the player! It's little things like that driving my desire to thin out my collection as much as possible. Not to mention finding mild rot on discs I long ago presumed "safe" from it.
Have the differences in Raider's mixes been documented to the degree Star Wars has? I recall seeing an old tv spot on Youtube where some lines sounded like alternate takes.
I'll try and check my LD again soon to see if I can hear that line.
I've heard varying opinions on analog vs. digital tracks from LD fans over the years. I've captured music videos that only had a CX encoded analog stereo track and they sound great in PCM on DVD. (CX is similar to Dolby NR.)
Soundtracks without the CX noise reduction have more "hiss", and on my oldest player there is some electrical sounding background noise audible with CX turned off. This presented a problem with the Criterion Monty Python and the Holy Grail tracks I captured for Catbus' project. I ended up using my CLD-D704 for everything.
I can't recall ever seeing any LD title with a CX encoded mono track.
Some LD fans believe the analog output on more modern players are lower on purpose to make the digital sound better. My 704 seems better in this regard since it's recent repairs and tuneup, but I'm not certain.
I don't think shooting movies on film is going away anytime soon. Spielberg and others still have the weight to get their way on that for now.
msycamore said:
SilverWook said:
I'd like to think George respects Frank Oz too much to do that to Original Puppet Yoda (tm).
This is what Bill Hunt had to say in his blu-ray review:
"For those of you who hate the past changes (and the new BD changes), believe me I get it. Let me just say, it could be a LOT worse. Sources well-positioned to know have told me that Lucas actually seriously considered replacing the puppet Yoda from The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi with the all-digital version, and even had tests conducted to see how it would look. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed. (For the record, I'm told that the digital Yoda just didn't look right or mesh well with the real, physical, practical Dagobah sets. Shocking, I know.) In any case, the films are what they are - changes and all - and now they're finally available on Blu-ray."
I'm afraid Lucas doesn't respect anyone's workmanship on these classic films these days. Frank Oz's voice performance maybe. This set was also released very close to Kershner's death, when a few years have passed it may be easier to go ahead with more alterations. I would like a commentary track where Lucas explains in detail why he changed certain things, what about Lukes' scream in the '97 SE that was lifted from the Emperor in Jedi, talk about creativity. ;)
That's pretty damn disturbing if true. The CGI tests must be hidden away in the deepest levels of the ranch that never see daylight. ;)