SilverWook

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

Still talking about Luke, I’ll try to clear things up a little bit. I don’t really have a problem with Luke not living up to be the legend he was made out to be. I just don’t understand, for example, how did the legend originate. Like I said in a previous post, his victories were mostly personal and (should be) unknown to the rest of the galaxy, except for destroying the first Death Star. But I can see how a myth or some mystery feeling would grow around him, given that most people probably thought that the mysterious nature of his activities and his sad devotion to an ancient religion were suspicious and weird. And mysterious and wizardry. Anyway.

I don’t get why the tales of his bravery wouldn’t spread and balloon. And he had more victories than we saw in the films.

What tales of bravery? How he led the defense of Echo Base in Hoth and failed miserably? Or how he disappeared only to show up without a hand? Granted, Han Solo’s rescue is a big deal and was probably one of the greatest displays of Luke being a hero, but so what? The clone wars is full of badass moments and missions. Moreso than Han’s rescue. Then Luke basically defected in Endor, and I think the other rebels that didn’t know of his whereabouts were quite suspicious. And then he suddenly comes back! He’d eventually tell Han and Leia what happened, sure, but how the events in the Death Star II eventually led up to a legend is beyond me.

What clone wars moments? There’s only the battle of Geonosis, Coruscant and Utapau.

What I really have a problem with is how he died and ultimately failed his goal, failed his whole purpose in the original trilogy, which was to rebuild the Jedi Order. That makes him a failure imo. Not only that but the movie also makes him betray his character arc in the scene with Kylo with unconvincing explanation as to why, and also present him as some sort of fool for making the exact same mistake that his mentors did years before, mistakes that he was aware were made. And what pisses me off is that all of this happened just so that Rey could have the exact same journey as Luke, specially now that we have the exact same scenario we had in the original movies.

Luke didn’t fail, though. His goal was to become a Jedi (check) and to pass on what he learned (check). He will not be the last Jedi, and Rey won’t be a Jedi like him.

He did fail. Yes, becoming a Jedi was one of his goals, and he achieved that, but at the moment Darth Vader destroyed his beliefs, expectations, values, ideas of his purpose and the reason why he was fighting, his purpose and he himself became much bigger than just becoming a Jedi because his dad was one.

Do you think he passed on what he learned? Not to Rey, I don’t think. She has the books, but that’s about it. He taught her nothing, and the movie made that very clear. She might become a Jedi still, but not from or because of Luke.

Not only did he not teach her nothing, I don’t think he’s done teaching her. And yes, she is going to be a Jedi because of Luke, not just because of the few lessons he taught her, but because he inspired her (and the rest of the galaxy).

Anyway, after RotJ he built a Jedi Order that lasted for probably some 3-5 years, only for it to be destroyed. Another failure. And then he died. His death scene was pretty badass and beautiful, I’ll give you that, and it showed how awesome Luke Skywalker can be. But he still failed. I’m making it sound like that’s the problem - that he failed - but no. The problem is that he died a failure. It served no purpose, it just pissed on his character. Everything he tried to accomplish, accomplished and built was either destroyed or killed, including Luke himself.

He could have just… survived. Been able to go on, to teach a new generation, to learn from his failures rather than to die as one. But that was not allowed.

Did we even watch the same movie? The idea that Luke died a failure… clearly that was not what happened.

Mmm, let me see. Luke was instrumental in bringing peace and justice back to the galaxy. He wanted to train a new generation of Jedi. He made a mistake, and ended up failing his students, and by running away rather than fix that mistake, he allowed a second darkness to take over the galaxy. He is partly responsible for that. Luke’s legacy is one of failure. While he has provided hope for a future generation, it is now up to the next generation to fix his mess. Luke is like a guy with huge debts, who after refusing to pay them, dies just after providing his heirs the hope of paying off those debts in time. That is not a legacy of success in any shape or form.

By that logic, Obi Wan and Yoda are even bigger failures. 😉

How did Luke fail on Hoth again? He took out an Imperial Walker, (came up with the idea to use tow cables to trip them up too) and bought the Rebellion time to evacuate. It was never about beating the ground invasion.

Heck, even the old ESB Atari 2600 game can’t be beaten. The walkers just keep coming and coming.

NeverarGreat said:

I think lightsaber crystals should optically degrade over time, with the crystal darkening until it eventually became red.

The Jedi, being largely pacifist, would not use their lightsabers often. This would preserve the colors of the crystals. Some yellowing would still occur of course, requiring new Jedi to build their own sabers instead of using old ones passed down from generation to generation.

For the Original trilogy, this would mean that Obi-wan’s saber would be yellow from years of use. Anakin’s would be in better shape but still wouldn’t be bright blue. Vader’s would of course remain red.

Kenner’s yellow saber fetish would make more sense that way.

Maybe they can have Andy Serkis do motion capture in real time and have Caesar accept the award? 😉

ZigZig said:

I left this thread on page 14, and now I’m on the bottom of page 190.
Is it possible to have a short summary of the 176 last pages ?

https://youtu.be/MabLtuTpDw8

One has to wonder if George ever sent in a letter under a fake name. 😉

Would really be something if someone who went on to work on the new films wrote a letter that was published.

ray_afraid said:

I hope Kong wins best effects. Won’t be surprised if it doesn’t, but it deserves it.
I dunno if I could care any less about the rest.

Only if the filmmakers convince the academy it was a giant mechanical ape in every scene. 😛

It would be more accurate to say the academy turns it’s nose up at certain genres. Fangoria magazine used to run coverage of certain films under the banner of It’s not a horror film!, complete with a cartoon image of a film producer clutching an Oscar. This was in the wake of Silence of The Lambs, which was well covered by them and other horror mags. I don’t know if the makers of SOTL actively shied away from the horror label, but other filmmakers/studios have since then.

Lucas did get the Irving G. Thalberg Memorial award in 1992. I didn’t know Lucas got nominated for best director and best original screenplay for American Graffiti.

This was the same year Ray Harryhausen finally got his technical achievement award, which was long overdue.

The Oscar statue later came to life and battled Sinbad of course. 😉

Lumiya was one of the few Marvel characters to cross over into the EU novels, wasn’t she?

I neglected to mention the Obi Wan during the Old Republic flashback issue. With all the constraints the Marvel team labored under, I imagine it took some persistence to get a green light on that tale.

https://youtu.be/VPvLykRfSi0

I was more into Mazes & Monsters though, at least until that one college kid got lost in Pequod Caverns and got eaten by a Gorvil. 😉

Luke’s temporary fall from grace as a hero of the Rebellion was a good storyline. It coincided with one of those times I wasn’t able to find a copy on the rack, so I missed the crucial issue where Luke’s trusting in the Force got him into trouble.

Once again, the Oscars are a joke. Wish I could cobble up a fake statuette and somehow get it to Mark. I used to have a fake Oscar, but loaned it out to a local comic shop where it subsequently disappeared.

I’m rather fond of the whole Seven Samurai homage storyline with Han and Chewie down on their luck, (having had their Rebel reward stolen by pirates) being enlisted by farmers on a bigger desolate hole than Tatooine to protect their small community from a local tyrant. And not just because Jaxxon was introduced. : )

I also liked The Wheel storyline, as it finally brought Vader back to the comic. Luke’s mishap while attempting to meditate using The Force was chilling. Han and Chewie being tricked/forced into a gladiatorial zero gravity arena to the death was great. (Many angry fan letters attest to fact they thought Han really died.) Wheel administrator and former senator Greyshade and his companion Master Com can be interpreted as the first robot/human couple in Star Wars, decades before Futurama did it.

The resolution of the Crimson Jack subplot (the leader of the pirates who robbed Han and Chewie back in issue 7) was also really good. Pirate lady Jolli had an interesting arc. Pity they didn’t keep her around to join the Rebellion or something. Plus, it would have given Leia someone to relate to with her scoundrel issues.

Last, but not least, the flashback issue with Luke and Biggs on Tatooine. Pity we never saw Skyhoppers take flight in the OT. And the SE doesn’t count. 😉

I don’t think Space Hitler analogies really work here, because we don’t know if there’s any historical equivalent to Nazis in the GFFA before the rise of the Empire. And if there ever was a Space Hitler before Palpatine, it could be thousands of years in the past and not even be something Luke knows about. It would be as relevant in his life as Vlad The Impaler is to ours.

Ben? Are you falling to the Dark Side?

No, Master Skywalker!

Good! Carry on with your exercises then!

Ben had already fallen to the Dark Side, and probably already swayed the students that left with him. (Presumably they became the Knights of Ren?) His reaction to Luke wasn’t feeling betrayed by his master, it was being found out. Luke’s school was doomed whether he went in Ben’s room that night or not.

What should Luke have done, hire a private investigator? I think a Jedi Master has the right to investigate a student suspected of flirting with the dark side. You can’t apply real world concepts of privacy to the GFFA.

Maybe if the Jedi council had been more inquisitive about what Anakin did on Tatooine, or where he often spent his nights, the galaxy would be a different place.

It’s only creepy in Kylo’s version of events.

And who hasn’t hovered over someone’s bed with a ignited lightsaber at some point? There are some mornings that would work better than the threat of a bucket of cold water, at least for me.

Has anybody tried this stuff?

My local supermarket is blowing them out for 75% off. Were kind of pricey at three bucks per can last month. Should I hoard some in case they become valuable some day? 😛

And no Ric Olie can, alas…

I think it goes without saying Luke had some suspicion of Ben before he entered his room. It’s the Jedi Knight school version of making sure a student doesn’t have drugs in his dorm. If Kylo was keeping secrets it was a red flag.

Maybe it could have been explored better, but the movie would then be four hours long.

Never forget! #weekendgovshutdown2018

DrDre said:

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

rodneyfaile said:

DrDre said:

rodneyfaile said:

DrDre said:

Ocrop27 said:

I see many people saying that TLJ deconstructs the myth of Star Wars. I think this is a valid interpretation, but not entirely true. In my view this movie tests the myth, yes, it creates terrible (and incredible) obstacles for the heroes, making them question what was once unquestionable. “dead heroes”, as Leia told Poe, reminding us that in fact not everything serves a divine purpose as we usually believe for these films.

But after the dark journey that was the TLJ, we have a much more powerful myth, in my opinion. One that goes beyond the old norm, because it does not abandon what has already been, it just puts to the test and adds the new concepts. Luke in Crait was real, he inspired the Galaxy, saved the resistance and faced his biggest mistake, Ben. He was a great hero, but still only a man capable of making mistakes.

All the characters in this movie have their truths tested and evolve from that. Just as the film itself tests the truths of the saga (as TESB and TPM did before). I agree that this film has a postmodern side, consequent of the time in which we live, but I do not think that it left the myth, only magnified.

You can’t have your cake and eat it. TLJ deconstructs the legend of Luke Skywalker, and turns him into the deeply flawed man Luke Skywalker. Luke then creates a new in-universe legend or myth of himself within the story. This is not the same as creating a myth for the benefit of the viewer. TLJ is a film about myth and legend, not a myth onto itself. If the OT is the story of how on the North Pole, there’s a mythical person called Santa Clause, who makes toys and then delivers them to children all around the world on Christmas Day, then TLJ is a story about a disillusioned fat old drunk, who tells a young girl, who’s come looking for the legend of Santa Clause, that he hates Christmas, and that Santa Clause doesn’t exist. After refusing to put on his red suit for the entire story, the old drunk redeems himself by donning the red suit one more time, and giving his greatest performance in the holiday parade, convincing children in the story one last time that Santa is real, before shuffling off the mortal coil. To summarize, a story about Santa Clause is not the same as a story about a guy playing Santa Clause.

I’d say that the legend of Santa is still intact.

Once you take off the beard and the suit, it becomes very hard to sell the reality of Santa Clause.

Santa just stopped believing in himself and even the concept of Christmas because he couldn’t decide if Ben was naughty or nice.

Eventually he forgives himself, learns from his mistakes, not only saves the day, but reaffirms the legend of Santa and the values of Christmas for a new generation.

No, Santa reaffirms the legend of Santa and the values of Christmas to the children in the story. However, us critics have already seen Santa without his beard and suit, so we won’t be fooled again.

The legend is perfectly intact. Your delusion of perfection is gone. That is the lesson Luke had to learn too.

Becoming a Jedi is a metaphore for reaching a state of enlightenment, an ideal. When Luke says I’m a Jedi, like my father before me, he has grown beyond himself, and beyond his father. That was Luke’s arc. The ST then destroys that arc, by having Luke forsake everything he once believed in, including the sister and friends he once would have protected at an cost. TLJ then has him pass on the baton to the next new hope, who again has to fight another Empire, and another fallen Jedi student with the aid of another group of rebels. In effect the ST has Luke take off his beard and red suit, then has him pass it on to Rey, and then expects us to believe Rey’s the real Santa Clause.

And I think we are down to the real issue with this statement. Luke reaching a state of enlightenment. Really? If that is Luke’s arc to you, that is great, but that really isn’t his arc. He is a Jedi, like his father before him. His father was flawed at still fallen at the moment he said that. He had reached a state of confidence and faced the most powerful force user in the galaxy. He knew he was about to die. His sacrifice is what turned Darth Vader back into Anakin Skywalker. In terms of a Jedi, Luke was facing the trials to become a knight and on the success of this, he became a Knight and master by virtue of being the only Jedi. I don’t think we can say he had reached the pinnacle of enlightenment. Enlightened yes, but not perfect. Not finished. He still had to journey on as Jedi Master and train a new batch, which Abrams gave us as an utter failure. Not just Kylo Ren, but the rest of his trainees killed or turned. He did what his masters before him did, retreated to regroup. But Luke ended up on Ach-to, finding the ancient Jedi texts and becoming disillusioned that he could do anything different a second time. How can he keep someone from falling to the dark side? He didn’t know. Then Rey came along and seems almost impervious to the dark side.

His arc was to become a Jedi and pass on what he had learned, as the Rebel Alliance restored peace and justice to the galaxy. What RJ did is to have Luke make a 180 degree turn, without providing proper motivation for Luke’s change of heart, and no a sixty second flashback is not character development. Luke turned his back on his ideals and his friends, not even the death of his best friend, or the impending doom of his twin sister could change his mind. Remember this is the same character who for three films risked his life to save his friends. That to me requires a bit more explanation than Luke mind raping young Ben Solo, and seeing some darkness for me to jump on the Rey band wagon.

Really? That’s a pretty serious charge to level at Luke. And I don’t buy it for a second. There’s a world of difference between picking up vibes and entering someone’s mind. Was Yoda a peeping tom for watching Luke remotely as he grew up?

So, we need The Rock to be in Episode IX? 😛

Could be a safety feature. Dropping a live saber might cut through the outer hull of a spaceship or cause a lot of unintended damage. I suppose via the Force one could keep the button pushed down. Or else Sith sabers differ from Jedi in the design of the on/off switch?

For that matter, what’s to keep a saber from accidentally being turned on if you bump into something while it’s hanging from your belt?