Interesting re-edit, TheTome, did you do that? I too like the original opening, but I think this is a very creative reworking of the scene, making it more of a battle rather than just Obi-Wan and Anakin flying through it. I like it better this way, since we never see adult Anakin in a space battle, even though he is supposed to be a great star pilot.
I don't mind that TPM starts as "small" as it does. It works really well since the blockade of Naboo seems a small and insignificant event, even Qui-Gon says as much, but turns out to be a major catalyst for the events that will change the entire SW Galaxy. I think this quiet, unassuming opening reflects perfectly how Sidious has conducted all these events. The OT didn't have any big wow openings either, other than ANH, in my opinion. For the PT, ROTS is the one with the big opening.
Those are some nice ideas, Avatar. Personally, I think the duel needs a lot of work. A lot of people here would rather not have it at all, but I think it should be in the movie. I think Yoda would at least try to take on Sidious, whether he could win or not. It's just the execution that is awful.
At least the fight with Dooku was built up with them sizing each other up, testing each other, and then finally drawing their sabers. Like the idea of Yoda with a saber or not, they made a big moment of Yoda pulling out his saber. In his duel with Sidious, there is none of that. The dialogue, the staging, the choreography, it's all bad. Especially in the beginning of the duel in Palpatine's office. The part on the rising platform in the Senate is pretty badass, but then it's ruined by the really lame final part with Sidious giggling like a school girl and Yoda's retreat.
I think it would be wise to show as little as of the fight as possible. Maybe it could be presented as a flashback, so it could be shown a bit more as a montage with dramatic music and editing to sell the fight.
Haha, Ric rolled. Well, at least Ric Olie would never tells us lies ;)
Glad you like my ideas, shaner. The Prophecy should be an integral part of the prequels, otherwise we might as well just leave it out. But I like the idea, it adds something extra to the backstory.
I agree with Teharri, Coruscant should look way more beaten up than it does after the battle. Adding columns of smoke would work great, as would removing all the air traffic.
This is not on the current topic, but here are some random thoughts I had on the Prophecy and the Sith.
First of all, I like the idea of the Prophecy. It adds something extra to Anakin's character, and to the scene where he destroys the Emperor in ROTJ: he has finally fullfilled his destiny. It's a nice little tie between the two trilogies. The handling of the Prophecy is totally botched though. I don't think Lucas had even thought it out before he wrote ROTS.
I'd like what the Prophecy is to be mentioned in TPM. As it is, we don't find it what it is until ROTS, and by that time we don't care anymore. I think it could be done with some dialogue tweaks: "You refer to the Prophecy of the one who will [destroy the Sith and] bring balance to the Force. You believe it's this boy?" I think the Prophecy has to be mentioned here because Qui-Gon just told the Council the Sith might have returned, and just brought them the kid who he thinks is chosen to destroy them. The Jedi should realize here there are bigger things going on. I'd like TPM to end with the Jedi concluding that the Sith have returned indeed (as it already does), but add that they realize they need Anakin and have to train him to fulfull his destiny, and not just to throw Obi-Wan a bone.
The Prophecy is mentioned in AOTC, but the return of the Sith should be much more prominent. The Jedi don't seem to be investigating the matter at all. A scene was shot where Mace and Yoda talk about the Sith not having shown themselves in the past 10 years, but it was cut. Bits of pieces of it are on the AOTC DVD. Maybe it would a good idea to have the Jedi mention they are still searching for the Sith (maybe in the scene with the Chancellor or in a Jedi Council scene, after Yoda mentions the Dark Side is clouding everything).
In ROTS, the Prophecy is pretty prominent too. I'd like Anakin to mention it to Mace when he goes to confront Palpatine: "Master the Chancellor is very powerful. [I am the Chosen One] you'll need my help". To conclude the Prophecy in ROTS, maybe Obi-Wan could say to Yoda that everything is lost, and there can be no balance now. Yoda could say something to the effect that there still is a change for balance, and then have them discuss the fate of the twins, setting up that Luke will help his father to balance the Force. I don't really know if these changes in dialogue are possible though.
Random thought: would it be a good idea to put some Vader-shaped statues in Palpatine's office? I always imagined Vader's suit to have a bit more of a history behind it, but as it is, he just gets it slapped on. Palpatine has more Sith inspired art in his office, so it might be nice if the statues give us a clue at where Vader's suit comes from. Maybe it's ancient Sith armor or something like that.
I'm not against the concept of Midichlorians. As has been mentioned earlier, it's a nice way to explain why the Force runs strong in some families. But, as has been mentioned also, they just don't do anything with it. The concept is just thrown out there, and personally, I think it just raises questions that are never answered.
For example, what happens when a Jedi loses a lot of blood? Anakin was said to have such a strong connection to the Force because of his midichlorian count, so does this mean that when a Jedi loses a lot of blood he loses (some of) his connection with the Force? What about blood transfusions? Can you make non Force sensitive person sensitive to the Force by blood transfusion? Also, if Force sensitivity is genetical, this means Sidious could have cloned himself a new apprentice, rather than go through the risky process of recruiting a new one. And instead of Fett, he could have cloned a Force user and create himself a whole army of Sith Lords.
I didn't mean for the proposed Sidious scene to be the final scene, but just a scene near the end of the movie. That scene as described in the novel was always interesting to me, and I would have liked to see some sort of "reaction" from Sidious to Maul's death and the defeat at Naboo.
I've been thinking about an extra scene for the ending of TPM. How about we put in a shot of Darth Sidious standing on the balcony he was talking with Darth Maul earlier, mulling over events of the movie? The novel describes a scene like this, and I think it would be nice to give some closure on his character, since he is (in my opinion) the phantom menace of the title. It could be a simple scene with the music describing how Sidious feels. It might also end the movie on a more mysterious note.
I think the romance in AOTC can be salvaged, if we use the deleted scenes on the DVD. Sure, those aren't *that* great, but I think those scenes are a lot more natural than what we got in the final movie. Here is how I would edit it:
- Cut the scene aboard the refugee freighter. Anakin comes on way to strong here, and Padme is obviously uncomfortable with it.
- Insert the extended arrival on Naboo. Anakin and Padme just talk in this scene, and we actually get to know them, especially Padme, a little better. I also like that it alluded to what happened between TPM and AOTC, which helps to connect these movies a little better.
- Cut their argument in front of the Queen. Just end the scene with Padme saying she'll stay in the lake country.
- Insert the scene at Padme's parents' house. It's a little cheesy, so it could be cut down a little, but overall I think it's a cute little scene. Especially the second part in the kitchen does a lot for Padme's character and the lovestory overall: Padme is falling for him, everyone is seeing it, but she is still in denial herself.
- Insert the scene in Padme's bedroom. Again, it gives a little more insight in Padme's character, and I like the contrast with the earlier packing scene on Coruscant. I would cut this scene down a little too, end it with Padme telling the story of how all the people she saved died, to make the scene a little less 'sweet' and to remind us that Anakin and Padme's relationship is just as doomed.
- Take out the kiss when they arrive at the lake house. I think this scene is best served with just establishing where they are, and then fade in to the meadow scene, without the Shaak riding of course. That would also help pacing issues, since there are more scenes with Anakin and Padme than with Obi-Wan on Kamino. Ending the meadow scene with Anakin's view on politics gives it a nice bit of foreshadowing.
- Cut as much of the fireplace scene as possible. There is a bit when Anakin is moving forward and Padme backs away. I was thinking that we add some whispered "Padme" to that shot, we could use that as Anakin thinking he can kiss Padme now, which would be kind of logical, since we built up their relationship a little better now.
Their first kiss should be in the arena, it's the right place for Padme to finally admit she has feelings for him.
If we build Anakin and Padme's relationship up like that, it would also help to feel more sympathy for Anakin when his mother dies, and when he doesn't tell Padme about the Tusken slaughter (which in my opinion he shouldn't).
Also, with this build up, Anakin is a lot nicer of a person, making the Tusken slaughter more shocking. When he doesn't tell Padme about it, we have our first indication that he is really f*cked up. This could turn Anakin in a more tragic character, who is always struggling with what he did (as we see in ROTS).
About the vote in TPM, we didn't see the actual vote, we just saw Amidala calling for a vote, and the other Senators agreed. The vote itself took place when Amidala was on her way back to Naboo (she discusses the nominees for the position of Supreme Chancellor with Palpatine before she decides to leave, and congratulates Palpatine with his election after the battle of Naboo).
Concerning Qui-Gon: I thought Liam Neeson was one of the best things about TPM. As much as I would like it, I just don't think it's possible to put him in AOTC and ROTS. He could appear as a ghost in ROTS, but I think it would still feel tacked on. I'm all for making Qui-Gon's body disappear when he dies in Obi-Wan's arms. The explanation for why some Jedi disappear when they die and others don't, could be their state of mind. Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan, Yoda and even Anakin were at peace when they died. The Jedi dying AOTC or ROTS didn't die like that, they died violent and sudden deaths.
Beautiful matte's, Darth Venal!
Works such as this will go a long way in improving on ROTJ.
vaderios said:SilverKey said:I do like your color adjustments of the opening of AOTC, Vaderios. You did take them a bit too far in my opinion, but as I said before, I like how playing with the contrast reveals a little more detail in this case on the ships and the platform. It makes them feel more real.
I like your feedback and im open for constructive criticism. Yes you are right i tried to make it look more real and eliminate the CGI result. Even some ships are actually models they lose their authenticity into this fog thing whatever thing. In what part you think i went too far? Feel free to suggest things. As you know i return to previous mockups and I revisit them ;)
thanks again
-Angel
Thanks Vaderios :)
What I meant is that sometimes, in my opinion, you boost the contrast too much, which makes some of the shots look a little unnatural because we're seeing way too much. Your adjustments make every little detail visible, and that makes the shots kind of "flat". All the subtleties are gone, and every little detail is there, screaming for our attention.
An example: the shot of Amidala's ship landing on Coruscant in AOTC. The platform is very "busy" now with every little thing we see on it. I like that the original shot was a little more "quiet".
That said, I do like how you changed the color palette of the scene. You got rid of the purple-ish tone that hangs over the scene and made the scene look a little more industrial. I also like how the yellow of the fighters stand out a little more too.
I don't mean to rag on your and others' color adjustment work, but I think there is a little too much of a "Let's make it more dark and faded and it'll look like the OT!"-mentality going on here. I agree very much that TPM (the horrible pink) and AOTC (to an extent) could use some color adjustments. In AOTC's case, I think we have to keep it subtle: bring out some more details, and tone down the cartoonish stuff.
Hope I haven't offended anyone :P
I like how shiny and white the interior's of Kamino's cities are. It looks very otherwordly, it's probably the most classic SF like environment we see in the entire Star Wars series. You can even see it on Obi-Wan's face when he first meets Taun We, he has never seen anything like this before.
I also think the sterile environment add to the Kaminoans as a species. Lama Su brushes over Sifo Dyas' death like it's nothing, has no moral issues with cloning what so ever, and even refers to the clones as "docile". Kaminoans seem cold and uncaring.
The contrast of the interior of Kamino's cities with the wild nature is pretty cool too.
I do like your color adjustments of the opening of AOTC, Vaderios. You did take them a bit too far in my opinion, but as I said before, I like how playing with the contrast reveals a little more detail in this case on the ships and the platform. It makes them feel more real.
The first fight between Obi-Wan and Grievous is a mess, in my opinion. It seems they didn't really know what they wanted to make of the fight or maybe it was changed because they didn't have enough time, but it's quite sloppy.
The compositing job done on McGregor is quite bad. They even used footage of McGregor that was shot (but cut) from the Mustafar duel with Anakin and it shows. The eyeline between him and Grievous are way off too. None of the elements in the scene really match.
Also, the whole background doesn't make any sense. When Obi-Wan looks down on the Separatist meeting, Grievous we see that the floor is flat. But when Grievous pushes Obi-Wan back, they are walking on beams. And where is did that thing Obi-Wan dropped on Grievous' guards, and their bodies, go?
Personally, I'd rather see the scene go and have the confrontation between Grievous and Obi-Wan be interrupted by the arrival of the Clones even before they fight. If you want to show how badass Grievous is, put in the deleted scene of him killing Shaak Ti aboard the Invisible Hand. Much better, if you ask me.
Vaderios, I believe that particular shot is from the AOTC deleted where Obi-Wan has Jango Fett's dart analysed by analysis droids. It was the first special effects scene finished but also the first scene to get cut :P
I agree with Ithilgore, the special efffects of TPM have aged the best. There are some really awful effects in AOTC, but I think part of that is because the shot the film digitally. Everything in AOTC looks too clean and fake. Seems they had that all worked out in ROTS, I think ROTS has great effects. The only thing I think looks truly bad is the Obi-Wan vs Grievous duel. The composition is bad, but the inconsistant backgrounds make it even worse.
Cool edit, kllermonkey! As you mentioned, it's not perfect, but you did a great job in combining the "best" from both versions.
This may come off as sacrelige but I thought I'd just throw it out there: there is a (short) musical number in Jabba's palace in the animated Clone Wars too. I couldn't find the clip on YouTube, but even though it's a cartoon, it looks and feels less like cartoonish than the 04 version.
The music in that scene is a little more exotic. There is another musical bit from the Clone Wars movie that might work too. Here are the links:
Maybe it's possible to use those tracks to create a shorter, maybe more Oola centered and less childish musical number for ROTJ.
That's a nice idea Kongerne, but I agree with the poster above that it's way too much. Still, that's a cool picture.
Wasn't Return of the Jedi supposed to be set at Coruscant (then called Had Abbandon or something like that) and wasn't Endor supposed to be that planet's moon and the homeworld of the Wookiees?
I'm just thinking aloud here, but could it be possible to work those ideas in an edit of ROTJ? It would require a lot of work though. The scenes on board of the Death Star could be set in the Emperor's palace by rotoscoping Coruscant outside of the window as Kongerne suggested.
Endor could easily be turned into Kashyyyk, they are both forest worlds. There is some blue screen footage of Wookiees on the ROTS DVD that might be usable too.
As I said, just thinking aloud...but a change of scenery might help ROTJ.
Agreed, Ithilgore. The battledroids in TPM were fine with me. And I don't mind the occasional joke from them either.
Just redub the battledroids in AOTC and ROTS with the voices they have in TPM, and we're done. Still, keep them as silent as possible.
That goes especially for the super battledroids. I guess they have to "talk" a little bit, since they are interacting with each other and R2 in ROTS, so maybe it's an idea to have them communicate through machine sounds, like clicks and whirring. Kinda like the sounds some of the robots made in Terminator Salvation.
I'm not really against seeing more lightsaber colors in the PT. After all, there are way more Jedi so there is bound to be some diversity. But the lightsaber colors in the PT as they are, are fine with me. I agree that too many colors might look a little too childish.
Another reason for fewer lightsaber colors in the PT is to get back the "simplicity" of the OT. The PT already looks way more fancy than the OT, even though it's set 30 years earlier.
ben_danger, I'm usually not a big fan of color corrections, but your work on the arena looks very good! Your color correction makes details like textures and shades stand out more, and it makes everything look a bit more realisic. You could be a bit more subtle, I think. Some shots look quite washed out. Maybe you should correct it shot by shot. Anyway, great work!
Nice edit, SSWR!
I liked how you tighterend up the battle between the Jedi and the droids. That, and the removal of the 3PI "comedy" makes the scene a lot more intense.
The scene where Obi-Wan, Anakin and Padme fight the monsters wasn't editted as good, in my opinion. You moved a lot of stuff around, and kept intercutting, making the scene feel longer than it is, and a little sluggish. There are some good finds in it though, and I liked how you tried to tighten it up. Overall, nice job!
On the subject of sound effects, the feature Soundboards on StarWars.com has a lot of sound effects and dialogue samples without background sound or music. I don't know if he quality of the sounds is good enough for the fanedits going around here, and there aren't a lot of soundbites from the PT (yet), but they may be useful. You can find them here: http://starwars.com/games/playnow/soundboards/#
On the subject of the Clones post prequels: I always assumed Palpatine used Clones was because they would be totally obedient (as Lama Su says) and that he could imbed them with special commands (like Order 66). With the wars agains the Separatists he orchestrated, the Clones were spread all of the Galaxy, and when he finally became Emperor, he had his entire army in place to enforce his New Order on the occupied planets.
I don't know if the Imperial army we see in the OT are just new recruits, Clones or a combination of them. I tend to think it's a combination. One reason is because we saw the Clones slowly 'transform' into the Stormtroopers we see in the OT. It's also logical to assume a lot of Clones died during the Clone Wars, which probably didn't stop during the transition from the Republic to the Empire, and the rise of the Rebellion. New recruits were needed to keep enforcing Palpatine's New Order on the Galaxy.
Maybe the use of Clones was phased out, because new Clones couldn't be manufactured because the original host (Jango Fett) died. I could think of multiple reasons. Maybe they could only make a limited number of a sample of Fett's blood before it 'decays', and maybe it's not possible to clone a clone.
Anyway, this is all reading between the lines.
I once wrote a fanfic of Episode III way before it came out, and in it was a scene where the newly founded Rebellion's first action was to destroy the Clone factories on Kamino. It had Alderaan Y-Wings, Naboo N1 fighters, Mon Calamari ships above the water, and Gungan subs underwater fighting the Aiwha's (those flying/swimming whales).
Trying to maintain the surprise of the revelation in ESB is a good idea, but pretty much impossible, I think. At least, with the PT we have. Had Lucas made Obi-Wan the main character and had him have another apprentice who is a rival of Anakin, it could have worked. But the PT as we know it made Anakin more or less the main character. So changing his character or arc would ruin (whatever) coherence in the PT's story.
And another thing is, no matter what kind of brilliant change we come up with, we know Vader is Anakin anyway. I think the best we can do is make the turn as believeable as we can. And I think that's quite a challenge already.
Vaderios, I get what you are saying, but those are two completely different situations. In the AOTC picture, the sky is clouded, which makes for different light than the clear sky in the ROTS picture. Also the sun seems to be in differen positions in both pictures. Anyway, it's just my opinion. Feel free to color alternate away!
It's an interesting idea, brash_stryker, but I think you'll hit a couple of snags when you go that route. The PT is pretty much Anakin's story. Your idea would require it to be Obi-Wan's story, but Obi-Wan's part is way too small for that in TPM. Also, Obi-Wan is way too young in TPM to have had an apprentice before he finds Anakin.
And if Hayden isn't Anakin, what would his arc be then? It wouldn't be too good for Obi-Wan's character if he has had not just one but two apprentices who turned to the Dark Side. And if you are going to make Hayden turn to the Dark Side in your edit, how are you going to do that? Because from the OT we kinda know that Anakin was seduced by Palpatine. If we see Hayden's character seduced by Palpatine in your edit, this is then supposed to have happened twice (to the Anakin we don't see, and to Hayden's character).
Once again, it's an interesting idea, but in my opinion, it's quite problematic. But I do think it would keep the punch in the ESB reveal, and might even make it bigger.
Hate to break it to you Monroville, but the original scene didn't have dialogue either (aside from Anakin hearing Palpatine's voice). ;-)
Not to discredit Cade's good work, but the scene as it is, is already very powerful. Cade's color correction (or should I say 'alteration') didn't do anything about that. And oh yeah, the scene is tinted in orange...because the sun is setting!
Nice effort cade. Personally, I'm not a big fan of all this color 'correction' going on in this thread. In my opinion, TPM is the only movie that really needs one, because of the pink tint.
You are right that the change in colors changes the mood of the scene. In this case, it makes it more bleak which fits I guess, but I like the original sunset better. Lucas often uses sunsets in scenes like this, in this case to illustrate that the sun is setting on the good in Anakin. Kinda like the final scene in AOTC, where we see the sun setting on the Republic with the deployment of the Clones across the Galaxy.
The new music fits very well too, but once again, I prefer the original. I think it's a little creepier and sounds a little more sad, don't know of that makes sense :P. I admit that the original music doesn't sound very Star Warsy, but I hink the music you used sounded a little too much like Lord of the Rings.
But overall, nice effort. You definitely should do a ROTS edits. I think it's always nice to see a new vision on the prequels. Have fun with it!