SilverKey

I'm sure that was the joke ;-)

Fishman, I also didn't really like the music you added to the Podrace. Not because of your work, but simply because I think that scene doesn't really need music. As has been mentioned before, there are so many sound effects in it, that you can't really hear the music at time. It's the same as the lack of music in the asteroid fight in AOTC, the music only kicks in in the last part of the fight. Before that, it's just sound effects, and it works just as well.

Thanks RoccondilRinon, I'm going to give it a try!

Handzzz, thanks for the recommendation. I haven't read all of Zahn's work, but the Thrawn trilogy was pretty much the first EU I read and I loved it, so I'll like Outbound Flight as well. :)

So Handzzz, you mean EU in Star Wars canon is fine, just as long as it's the EU you like? The Mandalorians in TCW are just as much part of the EU as the Outbound Flight storyline is, and there are fans out there who wanted to see them on the screen just as much as you want to see the Outbound Flight storyline in TCW. That said, I'd love to see the Outbound Flight project as the main storyline in a future season of TCW.

Speaking of Outbound Flight, is the book really worth the read? I love the Thrawn trilogy as well, and a book about Outbound Flight with the PT characters sounds like a great read to me. I also like how the tied the PT era and the post-ROTJ era together in the NJO series.

On a different topic: can anyone recommend me a good (preferably free) DVD ripper for the Mac? All those videos in here made certainly inspired me to see what i can make of the PT myself.

SSWR, I was just thinking of this: I like Anaking going over the lava-fall because it leaves us in the dark about his fate and it adds some mystery to Darth Vader's identity. How are you going to edit the movies to make it all work? Because as much as I love your ending for Anakin, it still won't be a surprise when Vader reveals himself to Luke in ESB: we met Anakin in the PT, know he was Obi-Wan's only apprentice, and we've seen him fall to the Dark Side over the course of the trilogy. What are your ideas to keep the mystery?

SSWR, your new ending for ROTS is fantastisc! I'm sure it's just a mock-up as it is now, but there are some great ideas in there. The way you short-cut the Yoda vs Palpatine duel, for example, but I especially love how Anakin went down with that crane over the lava-fall. If you'd leave it at that, Darth Vader's identity could still be a mystery throughout the OT. I hope there's more to come!

I haven't really followed this project, but that trailer looks great A-Man! It makes both stories seem even more epic. Think I'd have to visit this thread more often.

About your pneumo, I know what a b**** those can be, I've had three of them, even though I'm a non smoker, like you (but I am quite tall and skinny :P).

Agreed, DuTwan. Rogue, I didn't mean to sound harsh, I just meant that constantly bringing up Ady feels like putting down other faneditors who put just as much time and effort into their work. By all means, keep contributing to the debate! :)

We're just tossing ideas around, Rogue. I don't know if there is anyone actually working on an edit.

And I don't want to rip on Ady or his fantastic work, but I'm getting a little tired of people constantly bringing him up, as if other people's edits aren't worth anything.

Rogue Leader said:

SilverKey said:

Then, AOTC's openingcrawl could explain that in the 10 years since TPM, the Separatist movement has grown since TPM, and that both sides are preparing for war. To counter the threat, the Republic has issued the creation of a clone army. The vote Amidala returns to Coruscant for, is the vote about whether or not to deploy the army.

 

Actually... the eroneous as well... the thing about the creation of the clone army is that the Sith are pulling the strings for BOTH the Seperatist and Republic Forces... You're thinking along the lines of the Seperatist being this independent outside movement when it's the Sith manipulating both armies for the sole destruction of the Jedi.

You see? The only casualty is are Jedi and the TF are pawns in the Sith's ambitions. "The war is over? Sidious promised us peace" or whatever the hell he said... They were IN on the Sith's plan from TPM into ROTS for their own gain all along and then Sidious betrays them by dispatching Anakin to slay the Seperatist Leaders in ROTS...

I wasn't thinking about making the Separatists an independent movement. In my version, they would still be played by Sidious. In the movies as they are, they know they are in bed with the Sith, but they don't know the Sith's greater plan. Sidious just needed an excuse to get more power and to create an army that would do his bidding (including help wipe out the Jedi). That's why he started the war. I'm not saying my idea is waterproof, but it could still work with all those elements in tact.

RoccondilRinon, you make some good points. What I like about TPM is that it is showing us the beginning of the beginning. But in retrospect, too much time is wasted in TPM. You say the saga isn't about Anakin. Maybe it wasn't to begin with, but with the prequels it is. There is a lot of focus on his character, but by making Anakin so young in TPM, we miss a lot of his development. That's because most of it happened off screen between TPM and AOTC. We go from this sweet kid to an angry teen, who has to be just that because there is only one movie left to show his fall to the Dark Side. Lucas himself has admitted that there about 60% of the PT's story is in ROTS, and in my opinion he just wasted the time he had with TPM.

RoccondilRinon said:

Why this fuss again about tying TPM into AOTC and ROTS? It works well enough with as many connections as it presently has (although I'll concede the connections themselves, like much of the movie, could do with some tweaking). None of us are complaining about Adywan not doing more to tie ANH into ESB and ROTJ, despite ANH being a lot more standalone than TPM.

Yes, ANH works perfectly as a standalone film. But there are only 3 years between ANH and ESB, while there are 10 years between TPM and AOTC.

TPM stands on its own a little too much. The story of the movie is a bit of a waste. It does set up the Galaxy and the new characters, but everything kind of gets reset in AOTC: Anakin is literally another person, Padme is no longer a Queen etc. We miss too much development of those characters. Also, we don't really get to what should have been the PT's story until halfway, or even the end, of AOTC, and that time could have been used better.

I posted this before, but my idea to connect TPM with AOTC and ROTS better was to make the Trade Federation an early version of the Separatists. They are blockading Naboo to force this planet with vast natural resources to join their movement (we could explain this by overdubbing the Neimoidians). They want Queen Amidala to sign their treaty.

Then, AOTC's openingcrawl could explain that in the 10 years since TPM, the Separatist movement has grown since TPM, and that both sides are preparing for war. To counter the threat, the Republic has issued the creation of a clone army. The vote Amidala returns to Coruscant for, is the vote about whether or not to deploy the army.

Bingowings said:

RoccondilRinon said:

Agreed to an extent, but I feel the need to point out: there is a difference, when it comes to morals, between "shades of grey" and "murky and undefined".

That's the problem.

We are told that the Jedi are guardians of peace and justice but they are a bunch of gits who indoctrinate the very young, are on the beck and call of corrupt politicians (until their own turf gets trodden on) they are colossally stupid (as witnessed by the Fett investigation to nowhere) and cruel (they seem to keep Shmi in slavery just to test how attached Anakin is to her).

We are told that in the Clone Wars there were heroes on both sides, Gunray's appeal to Vader about wanting peace is the nearest we get to that but from his rubbery lips it comes across as just a vain attempt to get out of the stickiest of situations (as usual). Most of the time the Separatists are painted as just comedy villains with no real threat to them.

Neither are really gray complex groups, both are just badly defined and react completely to Lucas' whim to set up the spawning of an action sequence (which we have very little emotional attachment to because the players involved are less defined than they are in a game of Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat).

 

That was kind of my point, Bingowings, only you worded it much better. Don't you agree though that a lot of these things could be fixed? We could make the Jedi look a lot less dumb by cutting the Kamino investigation, and making them suspect Palpatine earlier. That's why I would also keep Dooku a Sith: there simply isn't enough of his character to support any ambiguity in his motivations.

Timstuff, I completely agree with your points. I too would like to see the divide between good and evil better defined. Not because I don't think shades of grey aren't interesting, but as it is now, it's way too muddled. That's because none of the characters or situations are really developed.

I think the best any edit could do is making the Jedi order more sympathetic. The last movie is called Return of the Jedi, and we should feel happy that after the Empire is defeated the Jedi can return. The same goes for the character of Anakin. We should experience a sense of defeat when he turns to the Dark Side, and should feel happy when he is redeemed in ROTJ.

JasonN, I don't agree that Anakin killing Dooku without hesitation means he's impulsive and rash. He had Dooku on his knees and defeated. If he had killed Dooku in the heat of battle, then that may have been impulsive and rash, but now it's just a coldblooded kill. AOTC and ROTS already proved Anakin was impulsive and rash, and the fact that he resisted Palpatine's goading at first says a lot more about his character, I think. I also like how that particular situation comes back, but with a twist, when Mace has Palpatine at saber point.

You're right, Farlander, the whole high ground thing was stupid.

I was thinking that the duel could end when that crane goes over the lava-fall. Obi-Wan swings to the riverbank, the music climaxes as the crane goes over the lava-fall. For a moment, we think Anakin went with it. Then he comes lurching at Obi-Wan who responds with the limb chop.

Another thing about the ending of the duel: I didn't really like how Obi-Wan just left Anakin there. Maybe we could make it look like the riverbank is breaking down, and Obi-Wan has no choice but to retreat and watch his friend burn.

That's a great idea, Bingowings! I don't really see how we could communicate that concept in the movie with the material there is, but I like that idea.

Great mockups as usual Vaderios! I love the throneroom with the planet Endor in the background, and the enhanced binders on Luke are a nice and subtle way to connect the PT with the OT a little.

As a movie ROTJ is a little bland to me, saved by some great moments. The story can't be changed a lot, but ideas like Vaderios' can make the movie at least interesting to look at, and take the whole experience to a new level.

Jair Crawford, I agree with you that had the dialogue had been better, the story might have been better to swallow, but as you say: it has many faults. And I think there are too many of them.

Like you, I like the overall story. There are plenty of good concepts in there, but none of them really work, because there is bad characterization and the plots are in times illogical to just plain riddled with holes. But that's what this thread is for to discuss ;)

Good find! I like this edit, I'm all for saving the surprise of showing Yoda with a lightsaber. Now if only we could find a way to beef up Obi-Wan and Anakin vs Dooku to make up for some lost duel time...

Looking forward to your video of Anakin's turn, SSWR. Different takes on the mess that is Anakin's turn are always welcome! :D

I posted this on the previous page, but I think the lightsaber colors are the least of the prequels' problems. It only makes sense to discuss them when an edit changes Dooku from a Sith to a rogue Jedi. And even then I wouldn't make it more complicated then it is. Just give him the established Jedi colors of blue, green and purple (weren't there purple sabers on Geonosis, or was that another case of bad AOTC colors?). I just can't picture Dooku sitting down and think about what color would reflect his unaffiliated position the best.

On another subject: I was thinking about trying to make TPM a bit more a part of the PT. As it is, it's a rather standalone movie, it's very different in feel from AOTC and ROTS. Biggest problem is the time gap between TPM and AOTC. Pretty much everything established in TPM is reset in AOTC: Anakin is literally another person and Padme is not a Queen anymore.

My idea for TPM was to change the Trade Federation's motivation for the blockade of Naboo. As pointed out in that 70 minute review, Naboo is a very lush planet, it's difficult to imagine them dependent on trade for food. How about changing the Trade Federation to a Separatist movement to start with? They could be after Naboo's rich natural resources, and use the blockade to force Amidala to sign the treaty to join them. This sparks debate in the Senate about this budding Separatist movement (and could also involve Dooku a little earlier), and could lead to AOTC.

Then, we could establish in AOTC's crawl that the Separatist movement has grown, and more planets are leaving the Republic to join them. The Republic has responded to this by creating an army of clones. The vote Padme returns to Coruscant for is about the deployment of the army. This could omit the entire mystery-that-isn't of Kamino, which would make the Jedi look smarter and leave more room for Anakin and Padme's story.

Those look very good! I never really noticed how orange Geonosis was, your corrections make everything feel more "real". Well done!

Ah, there we have the lightsaber color debate again :P.

I'm fine with how the colors are. Personally I think a discussion on lightsaber color is only really needed when you change Dooku's character from a Sith to a rogue Jedi.

As for Jedi not being ones to allow individuality, I disagree. Take a look at some of the costumes, especially those of Luminara Unduli, Barris Offee and Aayla Secura, they are hardly Jedi like. If the Jedi were against individuality, they all would have worn the same.

But do we really want to portray the Jedi like that? The main problem with the Jedi is that they aren't very likable. The characters in the PT keep telling us how corrupt and ineffectual they Senate is, but the Jedi behave almost exactly the same. They seem stuck up and obsessed with rank and procedures, while being very ignorant of what is going on around them at the same time. That's hardly fitting for self proclaimed guardians of peace and justice.

In any edit, I'd like to see that changed. Make the Jedi more likable. For example, we could show some empty chairs in the Jedi Council as an easy way to show that there are Jedi out on missions. Also, removing the mystery of Kamino and the creation of the clones from the AOTC plot will go a long way to make the Jedi look less dumb.

How about we change the premise of AOTC to the Republic already having grown the army, with the Senate debating it's deployment? We could state in the opening crawl that in the ten years since TPM, the Republic has been raising its army to counter the threat of the Separatists. That way, we could sidestep the Kamino investigation, and as someone else here posted (I forgot who, but I thought it was a great idea), have Obi-Wan go to Geonosis straight away.

That way, we would have more time in the movie to develop Anakin and Padme's story. It would also make AOTC less dense with plotlines and concepts that go nowhere. We might also take some plot elements from ROTS and put them in AOTC, like the Jedi starting to distrust Palpatine. It will make them look smarter, and also explain why Mace is so on Palpatine's ass in ROTS.

ben_danger, that clip is amazing! It's actual character development for Anakin too, he has taken his final step in becoming Darth Vader and fully embraced the Dark Side.

The only thing I don't see working with this new dialogue is Vader asking about Padme. If he doesn't care about his old self anymore, I don't think he should care about his old life anymore. But that might be better, cause that would allow for the removal of that terrible "NoooOOOooooo" *shudders*

I don't think using footage from other movies is a good idea. I've seen it done in other fan edits before, and it just doesn't feel right. Not just because it's recognizably from another movie, most of the time the new scenes just don't have the same style as the rest of the movie.

But I am all for spicing up the invasion of Naboo. No idea how to do that with the material we have though.

shanerjedi said:

SilverKey said:

Bingowings, I like your idea of "reversing" the story of TPM, I think it would definitely make the story more to the point. I'm just not really sure it could be accomplished.

The main problem is that in the movie as it is, we care so little about the people of Naboo: we are being told they are suffering and dying, but we don't see it. The only thing we see of it, is through Queen Amidala's eyes, she is our only connection to the invasion. I think taking out that part of the movie would really hurt what little we care about the planet.

I also think that starting the movie on Coruscant would really bog the movie down in politics at too early a point.

I do think the idea is very interesting though, so could you elaborate on how you would have it work?

But we don't see the invasion. it is mentioned but never seen. So why even keep that stuff?

Put it in the crawl

Have Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon infiltrate the TF ship at the end during the space battle, have Anakin purposefully join the battle in space.

The Jedi/Maul duel will take place in the engine generator room on the TF ship.

So you don't want to show the invasion at all, even though it is integral to the story of TPM? I don't think that will work. There is too much tell, and not enough show in the prequels already. I think we need to see the invasion because is what the whole plot and characters' journey is about.

Also, if we don't show the actual invasion in our TPM edit, I think the audience would hardly be able to tell it happened at all, because we don't see the effects of it. We don't really see that in the current movie either, but at least we've seen the invasion. If we take that out, we've been building up this planet under siege for an entire movie, and when we finally get to it we see a beautiful planet seemingly unharmed. There's even less drama in that.

What might work is that we start the movie with the Neimoidians receiving orders from Sidious (opens the movie with a darker tone which might help set the tone of the whole movie). We see a montage of the invasion and then cut to Coruscant where the story begins. Kind of like the opening of Harry Potter and the Halfblood Prince, where we get this action prologue with the Death Eaters attacking London before the movie gets to the main characters.

Bingowings, I like your idea of "reversing" the story of TPM, I think it would definitely make the story more to the point. I'm just not really sure it could be accomplished.

The main problem is that in the movie as it is, we care so little about the people of Naboo: we are being told they are suffering and dying, but we don't see it. The only thing we see of it, is through Queen Amidala's eyes, she is our only connection to the invasion. I think taking out that part of the movie would really hurt what little we care about the planet.

I also think that starting the movie on Coruscant would really bog the movie down in politics at too early a point.

I do think the idea is very interesting though, so could you elaborate on how you would have it work?

I'm afraid I can't be of much help Brash, but I like what you're doing with your edit! You're really going radical on AOTC. I'm sure it will be an interesting thing to watch.