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Shopping Maul

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12-Oct-2013
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7-Apr-2018
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107

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Post
#1193510
Topic
MY Thoughts on The Various Changes
Time

The real answer to all this remains the same - treat the SEs as ‘Director’s cuts’ and leave the OT alone, matte lines and all. Make both available on modern formats.

In the case of Mos Eisley, an often overlooked point is this - filling the spaceport with dinosaurs and CGI hijinks completely detracts from what made the cantina work in the first place. The scene worked because the spaceport itself was quite tame on initial approach - some Stormtroopers, some droids, some Jawas etc. Then Ben says “this place can be a little rough” and boom! - alien weirdos everywhere. That’s the magic of the scene. That’s why it was iconic. It was about the timing and unexpectedness of the moment. That’s why when Lucas tried to top it with Jabba’s palace, many folks were like “eh, it’s just a bunch of muppets”. The joke had already been told.

Now we have a giant overpopulated CGI city followed by a descent into a roomful of dudes in cheap rubber masks.

Way to kill a moment George.

Post
#1191607
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mavimao said:

Shopping Maul said:

Sorry to change the subject, but during the scene where Threepio said “Master Luke!” on Crait, did anyone else wish Luke had said “no, just Luke” before he winked?

Nice!

I’d thought of another “small touch” idea, but it would probably have been really clunky to include: Kylo Ren tells his subordinates to broadcast the destruction of the Resistance live to the public.

Well I did wonder how Broom Boy and co. got wind of the new Skywalker legend, so that’s a cool idea!

Post
#1189599
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Creox said:

Shopping Maul said:

Seriously, we’re on a site that was created by adults (like me) who can’t handle the fact that their favourite childhood film had some cartoon dinosaurs inserted into it. We collect action figures and read comic books and discuss at great length just how white the snow on Hoth might have been on the original 1980 film stock. Yet someone writes a long dissertation about one of these movies and suddenly everyone’s like “gee, get a life dude”.

Isn’t this exactly the place for such a post?

Actually your two thoughts on the matter are not the same issue imo.

One is about finding anything and everything about a movie you dislike and with surgical accuracy complete a thesis on why it sucks so bad.

This is much different than falling in love with a movie despite it’s flaws and enjoying discussions around that…

One thing is not like the other.

This site exists because we all want the original SW movies to be released on modern formats. We have petitions and discussions and fan edits and long debates about colour correction. We endlessly lament the SEs and ‘Han shot first’ and discuss which changes we can live with and so on and so forth.

Normal people don’t care. Normal people go “eh, it’s just a couple of scenes, get a life nerd”. And I say screw them! I don’t come here to be ‘normal’. I come here to nerd out over dumb stuff like the Sith rule of two and why a giant lobster should have had a noble death in TLJ.

I just find it odd that, in a sea of SW obsessiveness, a person writing a long and well-thought out piece about one of the movies constitutes some kind of limit.

Post
#1189586
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Matt.F said:

Someone writes a long ‘negative’ dissertation.

Didn’t your grandmother tell you “If you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything at all”.

There’s some truth to the notion that positivity is more inspiring and engaging than negativity. The context of this being a kids film further adds to the ‘whiny entitled fanboy’ feeling one gets when reading such post.

The guy also flagged so many points of grievance that it becomes impossible to reply to with anything other than ‘get a life’ style comment (just one or two and we could have debated).

Following such grandmotherly advice means we may as well not have a forum. By that logic we’d merely have a series of very boring posts praising each and every aspect of the films. Like I said, the entire premise of this site was to call out the creator of the franchise on a creative decision that ‘normal’ people generally don’t give a toss about. We’re all ‘whiny fanboys’ here - whether it be disliking aspects of the saga or moaning about the crushed blacks in the official blu rays. I see no problem with this. The poster clearly loves SW enough to write a detailed and well-thought out essay on why he/she disliked an aspect of the saga. That in itself IS positive.

If any of us really felt that SW was ‘just a kids film’ then none of us would be here. Of course there are subjective limits to what might constitute a healthy fannish obsession with the movies, but merely writing a long negative review about one of the movies hardly qualifies IMO. I take your point about ‘positivity’ in general, and there is some real bile out there on the net. I just don’t think this is an example of such, and I’d hate to think that anyone who was tempted to really nerd out and write something substantial would now find themselves self-censoring on a site that is, by definition, a place for SW nerds to share and enjoy their nerdiness unfettered.

Post
#1189525
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Seriously, we’re on a site that was created by adults (like me) who can’t handle the fact that their favourite childhood film had some cartoon dinosaurs inserted into it. We collect action figures and read comic books and discuss at great length just how white the snow on Hoth might have been on the original 1980 film stock. Yet someone writes a long dissertation about one of these movies and suddenly everyone’s like “gee, get a life dude”.

Isn’t this exactly the place for such a post?

Post
#1189490
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Mjolnir Mark IV said:

Great post - pretty much agree with everything here.

The only thing I will say is that I liked the 3 versions of the Kylo/Luke incident. It was an interesting exercise in personal perspective given that each viewpoint was so different.

I will never understand why Holdo didn’t just tell Poe her plan and save us from the entirely useless (and actually detrimental) Canto Bight arc.

You’re right about the Yoda/Luke dynamic. Luke actually surpassed his mentors in ROTJ. His compassion outweighed their “just kill the bad guys” stance. It’s ludicrous that Yoda would be back lecturing Luke about “always looking to the horizon” when it was precisely that sense of emotional romanticism that won the day in Ep 6.

I finally got the Blu Ray two days ago and watched it, making this my third time. To me it is/was akin to going out on a date with the most gorgeous person you’ve ever seen, and every time the conversation seems to be going well he/she drops something so stupid/offensive that you’re not even sure you heard right. This keeps happening until, by the end of the date, you have to concede that he/she is great to look at but - to be honest - that’s largely because he/she reminds you of your high school sweetheart.

Post
#1187272
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Creox said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

He feels passionately about Star Wars. The Last Jedi is a part of Star Wars. It’s not just a movie he was disappointed in.

As do I. I saw SW in a theater in '77 as a 12 year old boy and haven’t looked back since. I have very mixed feelings about the PT as many here do but don’t spend a lot of time debating minutia about them to point out their flaws.

When you are talking about debate among an singular group of people (mostly) as with this forum when does it become obvious that you’re just spinning your wheels and getting nowhere?

Maybe it’s just for the entertainment of debating??

I guess it’s really down to one’s personal motivation. I just love talking about Star Wars. Like you I saw SW as a kid in ‘77 and have watched the saga morph and grow, even as my own head-canon and biases were pushed and pulled by comics and prequels and now the new movies. I’m fascinated by what peoples’ particular ‘canon limits’ are and I just think that nerding out over all this stuff is fun.

My own head-canon has proven flexible too. I was 100% on board with the prequels as they emerged, but over time found myself rejecting them and settling into a more conservative ‘unaltered OT only’ position. But that doesn’t mean that I now hate the prequels or don’t like discussing them.

TLJ is fascinating because it has been so polarising. For some it is a poorly written mess and for others a work of total genius. So I just enjoy picking it apart and discussing it through the lens of my own own (and others’) certain points of view. Yes, there is an element of wheel spinning, but I think it’s less about simply hating on TLJ and more about using the polarisation a means to address the saga as a whole.

Post
#1187180
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Ms. Thrawn said:

Even if we count the prequels for fun . . . the impression I got from the original six films is that the Jedi viewed “bring balance to the Force” as “make sure the light side wins”. Whether or not that qualifies as balance is up in the air, but it at least makes sense inside the story. Luke helps turn Vader back into Anakin, who then kills the Emperor.

Then TLJ throws a monkey wrench by implying that the Force tries to balance itself between light and dark. Snoke could’ve just been sharing his weird opinion, but it goes too far in explaining Rey’s aptitude.

As far as the Force having a will? That could very well be but a superstition among Jedi and to a lesser extent Sith (who like to preach about destiny). There are ghosts living in the spiritual realm who have minds of their own, I guess. Maybe “will of the Force” is the majority vote of a ghost committee. 😛

Your interpretation of the awakening is nice and sound. I agree. 😃

I don’t recall Snoke’s exact speech about ‘balance’ in TLJ (looking forward to revisiting it all on Bluray next week!) but the idea of the Force automatically balancing itself renders the whole thing rather redundant. Luckily with all the broad strokes painted throughout the saga we can generally take our canon a la carte!

The ghost committee is interesting, although it would have to be comprised only of Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi Wan, and a somewhat red-faced Anakin (not sure anyone else learned netherworld conversion techniques). Perhaps ol’ Plagueis is there too wondering why all these Jedi are standing around smiling!

Post
#1187163
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Ms. Thrawn said:

But the Force had awoken by the time the boy summoned the broom. Didn’t you feel it?

“…yes” (spoken in deep menacing voice).

Seriously though, I myself (and this is entirely my own bias here) don’t like or embrace the idea of the Force having a will of its own. I don’t even like the ‘balance’ stuff. There was no ‘balance to the Force’ back in '83, or even a Sith ‘rule of 2’ for that matter. The Force was just an energy and certain skilled people got to tap into it, for good or for ill.

When Snoke said “there has been an awakening” I took it as “someone is tapping into it in a way we haven’t seen in a long time” - that being Rey who, to my mind, had huge natural potential and had basically ‘self-trained’ to an extent under the duress of her Jakku lifestyle. Even though Rey is…uh…overpowered…there was still a logic to it that didn’t necessarily point to the Force having its own will or trotting out another ‘chosen one’. I just thought Snoke was feeling the ripple of Rey’s coming into her powers.

I can’t explain Broom Boy. Maybe he was bitten by a radioactive Lightsaber…

Post
#1187159
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Shopping Maul said:

Frank your Majesty said:

You’re overthinking this. The point of Broom Boy is to show how the Force is for everyone and that you don’t need to be mentioned in a prophecy or part of a certain family to use it. And in order to establish this in a quick and subtle way, they showed him grabbing the broom. Showing his enhanced reflexes would require a way longer scene, putting too much emphasis on him. And simply mentioning his abilities in dialogue would be lazy and too on the nose.

Of course I’m overthinking this. I’m a Star Wars nerd!

Seriously though, I actually like the sentiment - that the Force is for everybody (as opposed to genetic a la the PT). But it isn’t free. In the OT (and the PT despite Midichlorians) the Force is a discipline. Luke struggled to levitate his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. He was 23 yrs-old and had been aware of his heritage for the past 3 years. He couldn’t raise his X-wing. Yoda could. This was a clear indication of learning, of slow progress, of mastering his self and his fears and his ego in order to reach for such mastery. I just happen to like that idea. If kids can levitate brooms and Rey can lift a mountain without training then Luke clearly sucked as a Jedi, 'cos apparently this stuff ain’t so difficult!

RJ had already made his point about the Force via Luke’s explanation and Rey’s parentage. We didn’t need Broom Boy. I’d have preferred the film end on the Falcon or have Broom Boy simply holding the Resistance badge and looking to the stars.

Luke was also injured, upside down, (blood rush to the head!) and probably already suffering from the cold.
Broom Boy’s™ broom was not stuck in a pile of snow either.

Yes, but that wasn’t the point of Luke’s scene. It wasn’t a demonstration in ‘levitation under duress’. It was to show that Luke had been expanding upon what he’d learned in the previous film whilst adding to the Force powers lexicon. Given Luke’s progressive struggle with levitation throughout TESB, it naturally follows that this is something of a difficult skill to master. Indeed, Yoda takes Luke on largely on the basis that he’s ‘learned so much’ already. Surely Yoda would’ve said “heh, levitation a five-year old novice could achieve without effort!” if it really was such a casual ability on the Jedi scale.

Post
#1186939
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DominicCobb said:

Shopping Maul said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it.

Thing is, those are things that are all explained in the film and have been discussed ad nauseam here. Either you buy it, or you don’t. Sounds like you don’t, and I’m not sure there’s anything that could be added to the last 241 pages that’d sway you one way or the other.

Well ya can’t blame a guy for trying!

No-one has necessarily ‘swayed’ me here - that’s true - although I enjoy the discourse and respect those involved (mostly). Perhaps ‘swayed’ is the wrong word. But one example of what I was talking about is a series of Youtube vids by someone called Mauler (not sure if you’ve seen them). Now this guys rips into TLJ like nothing else, and I think his points are spot on and well thought out and certainly not troll-like. But I don’t agree with all of his points despite my respect for his position and reasons, which gives me scope to see aspects of the movie in a new light and appreciate it a little more.

Post
#1186923
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I think at some level I’m hoping to be swayed. As a fan I want to be able to keep enjoying Star Wars. If someone can offer me a better way to view aspects of the film that bug me (Holdo’s withholding information, new canon regarding the Force, Luke’s personality etc) then I’m all for it. I love the imagery in TLJ and look forward to owning the blu ray for that reason, but I do struggle with the movie as a piece of canon.

The cool thing about this particular forum, for me at least, is there seems to be a nice level of civility here where we can nerd out and discuss Star Wars minutiae without insulting each other. Star Wars has always been an escape from the everyday for me, and banging on about plot points and Force lore is a nice way to carry on that proud tradition (apologies for sounding over-sentimental…)

Post
#1186919
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

oojason said:

Some intriguing thoughts and takes on TLJ in here (and about the current state of movie commentary)…

‘Star Wars Fans don’t deserve The Last Jedi’:-

https://medium.com/@thejohnprice/star-wars-fans-dont-deserve-the-last-jedi-5bd167dfc033

(The comments section is well worth a read after the article too)

What a total wanker (can I say that without getting banned?)…

He relies entirely on a strawman argument that depicts any detractors as simply “not understanding the movie” - which is a complete cop-out. He relies on the ‘OT was stupid too’ argument which is absurd (very few commentators see TESB as anything other than a masterful piece of quality filmmaking). His comment about SW merchandising makes no sense given that the film was a huge hit before a single toy had been released - hence the famous ‘empty box’ promotion which was responding to demand and not the other way around. I could go on. What a prat. But I guess saying so makes me an immature fanboy right?

That said, I didn’t understand why Holdo didn’t simply share her plan with Poe and spare us 45 mins of Canto Bight, so maybe I didn’t ‘get it’ after all…(tosses toy lightsaber over shoulder like immature fanboy…)

Post
#1186770
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Frank your Majesty said:

You’re overthinking this. The point of Broom Boy is to show how the Force is for everyone and that you don’t need to be mentioned in a prophecy or part of a certain family to use it. And in order to establish this in a quick and subtle way, they showed him grabbing the broom. Showing his enhanced reflexes would require a way longer scene, putting too much emphasis on him. And simply mentioning his abilities in dialogue would be lazy and too on the nose.

Of course I’m overthinking this. I’m a Star Wars nerd!

Seriously though, I actually like the sentiment - that the Force is for everybody (as opposed to genetic a la the PT). But it isn’t free. In the OT (and the PT despite Midichlorians) the Force is a discipline. Luke struggled to levitate his lightsaber in the Wampa cave. He was 23 yrs-old and had been aware of his heritage for the past 3 years. He couldn’t raise his X-wing. Yoda could. This was a clear indication of learning, of slow progress, of mastering his self and his fears and his ego in order to reach for such mastery. I just happen to like that idea. If kids can levitate brooms and Rey can lift a mountain without training then Luke clearly sucked as a Jedi, 'cos apparently this stuff ain’t so difficult!

RJ had already made his point about the Force via Luke’s explanation and Rey’s parentage. We didn’t need Broom Boy. I’d have preferred the film end on the Falcon or have Broom Boy simply holding the Resistance badge and looking to the stars.

Post
#1186753
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

This is the same council who poo pooed that the idea the Sith had returned, never mind what Qui-Gon had to report, took a army of clones without seriously questioning who actually commissioned it, and even when tipped off by Dooku, (who they insisted would never try to kill a senator) never suspected Palpatine of being a Sith lord until it was too late. Not the brightest bunch of bulbs in the chandelier. 😛

No argument there ha ha! But, in terms of training Jedi and vetting Midichlorian-rich children, they had at least been doing this for a long time without noticeable fallout. Otherwise, like I said, there would be scores of self-trained Dark Siders running around Force-choking people and generating enough of a psychic ‘ripple’ to bring the council to attention.

To use my previous X-Men analogy, if Charles Xavier didn’t take on mutant kids, they would then be at risk of a) having no control over their powers and destroying their own lives and b) being recruited into Magneto’s brotherhood. But with Midichlorian-kids it’s clear that, if left alone, they pose no threat. Otherwise the Jedi Order would snap them all up on principle. So it follows that training is the key in the SW universe, at least as I see it.

Post
#1186740
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

DrDre said:

Shopping Maul said:

SilverWook said:

Not sure where you’re getting that idea about Broom Boy™. I just presumed he has latent Force abilities that are just beginning to wake up and nobody around him has picked up on it yet. Just like that kid from Tatooine who was pretty good at Pod Racing. 😉
It’s not like anybody is actively looking for Force sensitive kids at this point, at least not yet.

I’m merely projecting my own biases. I like the original idea of the Force circa '77-'80 ie an energy field that can be tapped into by anyone with the discipline/openness to do so (I believe GL called it ‘space yoga’). Yes, there was the implication that Luke had somewhat inherited his Dad’s talent, but it was still ambiguous enough to a) not be a given and b) be a potential talent that still required serious training to bloom beyond good piloting instincts.

Anakin was of course an outgrowth of the genetic certainty presented in ROTJ via the shoehorned Leia revelation. The original ‘other’ was to be someone who had trained on the other side of the galaxy - ‘trained’ being the operative word. Leia’s sudden identity switch necessitated the idea of Skywalkers being a threat to the Emperor by birthright alone. So at this point Force abilities became more strictly genetic, and this led us down Midichlorian avenue.

Anakin was conceived by Midichlorians to fulfil a Jedi prophecy - all of which I find ridiculous, but he was still only displaying rudimentary prescience (in the form of dreams) and excellent reflexes. I just find levitating objects to be a little far-fetched, especially given Luke’s slow climb to levitation proficiency. Since TFA and TLJ seemed to be ducking the ‘chosen one’/Midichlorian thing and going back to the energy field, I thought they’d also preserve the discipline/space yoga side of the Force as well. Rey’s heaving boulders about the place and Broom Boy effortlessly summoning a broom conflict with the ideas presented in the OT in my opinion. I don’t think these powers should be so superhero-ish, given what we’ve seen before. They should be earned, not just appear like Marvel mutant abilities.

Yes, that is my view as well. I would like to add, that the OT and later the PT also made clear, that in developing these powers you inevitably will be tempted by the dark side, to choose the quick and easy path. That important Star Wars theme appears to have been jettisoned as well. There’s this weird scene, where Rey according to Luke didn’t even attempt to resist the dark side, but that element is never revisited, and appears to have no bearing on the rest of the plot. All the while Kylo is simply presented as a bad egg, who just needed a little prodding from his misguided master to become the monster he was meant to be, and Rey just instantly has these powers whenever she needs them, and all the while remains as good natured as ever.

Exactly! Even with the PT’s Midichlorian thing, the Force is still something one must train to use. Otherwise Sith Lords would be popping up everywhere! Anakin was rejected by the council in TPM, so clearly they didn’t see him potentially going off and becoming a Jedi/Sith on his own. If the Force really behaved the way these new movies are implying, then the council should’ve have grabbed Anakin on the very principal that he would undoubtedly self-train anyway.

I wish that element of Rey and her ease with the Dark Side had been explored. I actually thought she was using the Dark Side when she first beat Kylo in TFA. It would have been an interesting idea to have someone who is ‘good’ be steeped in ‘bad’ methodology due to the way she nurtured her talents on Jakku. But no, the only lesson here seems to be that Rey is perfect regardless.

Post
#1186235
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

SilverWook said:

Not sure where you’re getting that idea about Broom Boy™. I just presumed he has latent Force abilities that are just beginning to wake up and nobody around him has picked up on it yet. Just like that kid from Tatooine who was pretty good at Pod Racing. 😉
It’s not like anybody is actively looking for Force sensitive kids at this point, at least not yet.

I’m merely projecting my own biases. I like the original idea of the Force circa '77-'80 ie an energy field that can be tapped into by anyone with the discipline/openness to do so (I believe GL called it ‘space yoga’). Yes, there was the implication that Luke had somewhat inherited his Dad’s talent, but it was still ambiguous enough to a) not be a given and b) be a potential talent that still required serious training to bloom beyond good piloting instincts.

Anakin was of course an outgrowth of the genetic certainty presented in ROTJ via the shoehorned Leia revelation. The original ‘other’ was to be someone who had trained on the other side of the galaxy - ‘trained’ being the operative word. Leia’s sudden identity switch necessitated the idea of Skywalkers being a threat to the Emperor by birthright alone. So at this point Force abilities became more strictly genetic, and this led us down Midichlorian avenue.

Anakin was conceived by Midichlorians to fulfil a Jedi prophecy - all of which I find ridiculous, but he was still only displaying rudimentary prescience (in the form of dreams) and excellent reflexes. I just find levitating objects to be a little far-fetched, especially given Luke’s slow climb to levitation proficiency. Since TFA and TLJ seemed to be ducking the ‘chosen one’/Midichlorian thing and going back to the energy field, I thought they’d also preserve the discipline/space yoga side of the Force as well. Rey’s heaving boulders about the place and Broom Boy effortlessly summoning a broom conflict with the ideas presented in the OT in my opinion. I don’t think these powers should be so superhero-ish, given what we’ve seen before. They should be earned, not just appear like Marvel mutant abilities.

Post
#1186218
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

My problem now is still the same one I had when I left the theatre on first viewing. I turned to my wife and said “hang on, that entire casino plot was not only a waste of time, it actually got bunches of people killed! Why the hell didn’t purple-hair just tell Poe the plan?”. I assumed I’d missed a vital piece of information.

I can handle lightspeed weaponising, Luke being Jake, Force-ghosts with new Thor powers, and the stupid idea of children getting Jedi powers like mutants from an X-Men movie - but the Holdo thing is a sticking point for me. I’ve watched Youtube videos, read articles, done everything in my power to make sense of this aspect of the movie, but I just can’t.

Which is a shame because the movie looks great and I’m keen for the Blu Ray on that basis alone.

Post
#1179617
Topic
The original Marvel Star Wars series
Time

screams in the void said:

awesome stuff folks ! thanks for posting it , that Starlog interview was great and yeah ,Marvel did come close a lot , they even got a cease and desist when they wanted to do a second Death Star so they made The Tarkin battle station story in 51-52 instead . and as was posted earlier , the debut of the Hoojibs issue had Rebels on early Speeder Bikes , a few issues down the line the furry little Lahsbees on hang gliders etc …also , here is a forum I found where someone reviews every single issue …,do not agree with everything but we all have our opinions ,interesting read anyhow …enjoy …http://classiccomics.org/thread/1039/star-wars-marvel-reviews-confessor

Really enjoying this site - thanks. I’m up to the ‘Omega Frost’ reviews - which incidentally is where I started reading the series back in 1980. Unlike the reviewer I really dug the artwork, because it felt like a great combination of typical Marvel superhero stuff and Star Wars. So this holds great memories for me.

There’s an interesting ongoing concern in the thread about Ulrich Tagge and exactly who he is. I always assumed that Motti and Tagge had been reversed in the final film, meaning that Marvel was operating under the impression that Tagge had been strangled by Vader rather than Motti. That accounts for Ulrich looking like Motti.

God I’m a nerd…

Post
#1175455
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

I remember at the time of TFA, JJ said something like “every SW movie needs a cantina”. It’s not a big deal I guess, but it feels like this is the overall mentality that has been applied to these films rather than any need to tell a coherent story. In the case of Snoke, clearly JJ and Kasdan were thinking “every SW movie needs an Emperor” (not to mention an Empire, a Death Star, a Tatooine, a Hoth, a Dagobah cave scene etc etc etc) without much thought beyond the visual aesthetic of such a character.

Don’t get me wrong, I like these new films, but my ‘head-canon’ seems to be veering towards seeing them as interesting alternate interpretations of SW and TESB (with a dash of ROTJ) rather than legitimate continuations of the OT.

Post
#1171759
Topic
Things that you would like to see in Star Wars that have not happened
Time

DominicCobb said:

Shopping Maul said:

ChainsawAsh said:

To be fair, that wasn’t a PT thing, that was an ROTJ thing. Look what Anakin’s spirit is wearing on Endor.

Back in '83 I assumed Anakin was appearing in Tatooine garb as a kind of symbolic ‘return to innocence’ type thing. In the original novels Anakin had been a farmer like Owen, so it made sense that he would appear in his old duds at the Ewok party. The idea that these robes were official Jedi threads is/was absurd.

When you see all three of those Jedi, and they’re all wearing basically the same thing, the implication there is clear.

Also, “original novels”?

Sorry - novelizations (or novelisations). In the SW novelization Obi Wan tells Luke that Owen had wanted Anakin (not named at this point) to stay on Tatooine and concentrate on his farming. The film itself implied that Obi Wan had recruited Luke’s father for an ‘idealistic crusade’ despite Owen thinking he should have “stayed here and not gotten involved”. So this suggested (to me) that Anakin had been a farmer. Since Anakin was in Tatooine garb at the end of ROTJ, and Lucas himself made it plain that Luke had been in Jedi-garb in ROTJ (which wasn’t tan desert-robes), I naturally assumed that ghost-Anakin was in his old desert apparel.

The idea that Obi Wan was in fact sporting official Jedi-wear (whilst in hiding mind you!) that just so happened to be identical to Tatooine desert-wear is ridiculous.

Post
#1171737
Topic
Things that you would like to see in Star Wars that have not happened
Time

ChainsawAsh said:

To be fair, that wasn’t a PT thing, that was an ROTJ thing. Look what Anakin’s spirit is wearing on Endor.

Back in '83 I assumed Anakin was appearing in Tatooine garb as a kind of symbolic ‘return to innocence’ type thing. In the original novels Anakin had been a farmer like Owen, so it made sense that he would appear in his old duds at the Ewok party. The idea that these robes were official Jedi threads is/was absurd.