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Shopping Maul

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12-Oct-2013
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14-Oct-2019
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Post
#1300850
Topic
The Surprisingly Strange Story of "Lapti Nek"
Time

oojason said:

Star Wars: the changing face of Sy Snootles & the Rebo band’ - article from 2016:-

https://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-wars/38603/star-wars-the-changing-face-of-sy-snootles-the-rebo-band
 

The article features videos for both the original Lapti Nek and the SE’s Jedi Rocks, as well as a BTS type video of ‘Fancy Man’ - and some other intriguing info on the differing versions of the song that were recorded (and allegedly why one version was used over the other…), ILM’s creature workshop, the later CGI work for the SE, quotes from Lucas, and more…
 

That was really interesting. I don’t know if this has been mentioned (I haven’t gone through the whole thread) but Lapti Nek always reminded me of the Bee Gees’ ‘You Should Be Dancing’. If I had the know-how I’d do a mash-up…!

Post
#1299772
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

Booman said:

Mocata said:

The original cantina bartender voice also makes me laugh.

“OI! We don’t serve their koind 'ea!”

“What?”

“Ya droids, they’ll have to wait oit-side, they don’t wantem 'ea.”

I love how genuinely confused and bewildered Luke sounds when he responds to him, it’s like he’s never seen an australian in his entire life.

Slightly off-thread, but I love the footage (Empire of Dreams?) where someone’s reading Yoda’s lines in a British accent to Luke when he’s about to take off for Bespin - “if you choose the quick and easy path you will find it’s all a big load of bollocks…” (I’m exaggerating for effect of course!)

Post
#1299761
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

Shopping Maul said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I’m not sure if this counts as a “small detail” but I totally used the title of this thread in my video:

https://youtu.be/dYb8ezhwuk8

Harrison Ford does it even more blatantly while Leia is saying “Captain, being held by you isn’t quite enough to get me excited” in TESB.

Yes I know…did you finish watching the video? Or are you being sarcastic?

oojason said:

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I’m not sure if this counts as a “small detail” but I totally used the title of this thread in my video:

https://youtu.be/dYb8ezhwuk8

You big meany-head! 😉

I put the hyphen in the wrong place? Damn! 😄

Ha ha, no I’m just an idiot! Sorry! (Actually, my wife distracted me at the very last moment whilst watching your clip so, um, egg on face)…

Post
#1299716
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

SomethingStarWarsRelated said:

I’m not sure if this counts as a “small detail” but I totally used the title of this thread in my video:

https://youtu.be/dYb8ezhwuk8

Harrison Ford does it even more blatantly while Leia is saying “Captain, being held by you isn’t quite enough to get me excited” in TESB.

Post
#1299346
Topic
Best viewing order to introduce Star Wars to children?
Time

I say start with Star Wars '77 because it is the purest expression of Star Wars there is. We often forget that this was the first of everything - the Force, the lightsabers, the alien cantinas etc etc etc. I see the saga as a kind of wheel with SW '77 as the hub in its centre. Everything flows from this wonderful moment in 1977 and I think it would be cool for a child to experience it the way we did. Then, with her imagination tingling (assuming she likes the movie!), you can give her TESB, and then ROTJ and beyond…

Post
#1297542
Topic
Anyone else think Empire Strikes Back's Special Edition is actually better than the Theatrical Cut?
Time

Back in 1980 I didn’t notice transparent Speeders or repeated set corridors - nor did I care that I never saw the shuttle Vader referred to. All I saw was total awesomeness.

Now of course I can see the rough edges. I can see the genius of how the Hoth battle was achieved, or how the sets were cleverly designed to give the impression of greater scope and distance. Lucas calls them ‘faults’ - I call them craft.

I’m a conservative on this point. I think the films should have been left alone. They are (as Gary Kurtz said) a product of their time, and no amount of tinkering will make them otherwise. The SE were a cute novelty in 1997 and should have remained such - a bonus disc to compliment a stunning remaster of the theatrical OT in whatever format.

If Paul McCartney decided to remix the Beatles’ catalogue with all-new digital sounds, tweaks to the songs, Katy Perry on a couple of tracks etc etc, and then try to bury the originals, he would probably have to go into hiding - and with good reason. This is how I see the Star Wars issue. The sight of Lucas banging on about ‘mythological motifs’ at a 40th anniversary celebration of a film he won’t let us see anymore made my blood boil.

So no, I’m in the unaltered TESB camp.

Post
#1297121
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

Broom Kid said:

Only just recently noticed this in Empire, but I don’t know if I really noticed it or if I think I noticed it.

The guy in Star Wars who says “enemy fighters coming your way” is, I think, in Empire too? As the same rebel?

I looked it up and apparently that guy’s name is Del Goren, played by Burnell Tucker. IMDB is showing that Burnell Tucker is also in The Empire Strikes Back, and I think he’s the guy who is monitoring the Imperial Probe Droid transmission before Han and Chewie go out after it.

I love that guy! He seems to take his sweet-a## time saying “we’ve picked up a new group of signals…enemy fighters…”. It’s like he was an extra that was given one line and decided to milk the heck out of it.

Post
#1296492
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

yotsuya said:

DrDre said:

StarkillerAG said:

DrDre said:

StarkillerAG said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

Actually the Luke of TLJ is the one who has finally internalized the lessons of TESB. Rey says herself that Luke is purposefully ignoring his success in ROTJ (which repudiated Yoda and Obi-wan), but he has a reason for doing so - saving Anakin did not destroy the Death Star in the short term, nor the Empire in the long term. On the contrary, Luke sees his victory there and elsewhere as having a direct line to his hubris in training Ben.

And anyway, Luke in ROTJ is very pointedly not able to avoid the emotions affiliated with the dark side. He brings his weapon with him when he goes to see Vader. He gives in to his fear, anger, and hatred. It is only when he is on the verge of killing his father does his rationality come in, and he realizes what he has done - it is an exact mirror of the flashback in TLJ. Of course the argument then is that “he should have known better.” Well fine if you feel that way. But in my mind, the dark side is a constant temptation, and the factors leading to that moment in Ben’s hut were such that Luke was, in his arrogance, unaware of what he was getting into (it was a far more subversive challenge than the explicit manipulation of the Emperor on the Death Star). This arrogance is of course a mirror to the arrogance of the Jedi in the PT not realizing the fear and the anger they were giving into, which caused their downfall. Luke, seeing the cycle of things he’s found himself perpetuating, decides to end the Jedi for good. I don’t see any regression at all.

To me this presents a very narrow point of view, and just like much of Luke’s character development seems to be ignored, reducing him down to his mistakes at some moment in the past, so too the Jedi are reduced to their mistakes at the darkest time in their history. Like Luke there is much more to the Jedi than their mistakes at a specific moment in time. The Jedi guarded the peace in the galaxy for over a thousand generations. That to me is clear proof, that the Jedi code works, and that Luke in TLJ was turned into a fool, not being able to look beyond the flaws of a couple of individual Jedi, who by no means seem to be representative of the Jedi over their millenia long history.

I mean, yeah, Luke is looking at it the wrong way, and he’s ultimately proven to be wrong. But Luke is no fool. All we know about the Jedi is that they were the guardians of peace for a thousands generations, but even that doesn’t mean there were a thousand generations of peace. They were exerting their will of the Force over the galaxy. Luke only cites the rise of Darth Sidious and the creation of Vader (because these are things we can connect to as we’ve seen those films), but the whole point of him being on the island is to study the long history of the Jedi, and this is the conclusion he came to, that the Jedi must end. You can nitpick that they didn’t give you sufficient explanation, but in my opinion the implication is clear, that there are more flaws to the order than just the ones we’ve seen in the films.

Yet, Luke then changes his mind.

He doesn’t change his mind about the Jedi, he changes his mind about helping the Resistance. This is shown very well in the Yoda scene. Yoda tells Luke that the teachings of the Jedi were flawed, and tells Luke to pass on everything he learned, both success and failure. Luke still believes that the old Jedi were flawed, but he decides to create a new order of Jedi, learning from the failures of the old.

I didn’t hear anything about a new order of Jedi. All I saw was Yoda chastising Luke for not living up to his potential as a Jedi.

You obviously weren’t paying attention during that scene. Yoda specifically says:

“Heeded my words not, did you. Pass on what you have learned. Strength, mastery, but weakness, folly, failure also. Yes, failure most of all. The greatest teacher, failure is. Luke, we are what they grow beyond. That is the true burden of all masters.”

It was Luke who chose to only see the Jedi through the lens of his own failure, and thus couldn’t see the bigger picture.

Yes, but Yoda’s speech allowed Luke to see the bigger picture. Once again, the quote above clearly contradicts the point you’re trying to make.

No it doesn’t. There is nothing in Yoda’s lesson to Luke, that indicates he’s presenting Luke with some new insight, that did not exist when the Jedi were in their prime. In fact Yoda saying “heeded my words not”, suggests the opposite of what you are suggesting. What Yoda is telling Luke is, that he did not do as he was taught. He should not only pass on his successes, but also allow others to learn from his failures, a lesson he probably gave to many Jedi in the past.

Um… yes, he is presenting Luke with a new lesson that Luke has not had before. He may have used it before the heyday of the Jedi, but it is not among the lesson’s we saw him teach Luke and the way the dialog is written makes it clear that he had only told Luke to pass on what he had learned without specifying that his failures were included in that. So this was a new lesson for Luke.

Well, the last time Yoda mentioned failure to Luke, it was a grim “that is why you fail” after the even more absolute “do or do not, there is no try”. No wonder the poor guy didn’t consider failure as a good thing!

Post
#1296369
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

An easier example of the same thing is Han Solo in TFA. Han returns to smuggling? Why? Han didn’t enjoy smuggling, or do it because it was his lifelong dream. He did it to get ahead, to make a buck. Why the heck would he return to a life of crime after having been a war-hero married to a princess/politician? Didn’t Leia and Han have a shared bank account? It’s just absurd. A better alternative would have been that Han was using his old skills to find allies for the Resistance. Since the New Republic has their heads in the sand re the First Order, Han decides (in lieu of his separation from Leia) to go off and recruit allies from the galaxy’s fringes. That way we get the Solo of old (as per TFA’s intention) but with new noble purpose that doesn’t negate his OT arc.

Similarly a disillusioned Luke with the weight of his own legend bearing down on him after his failure to train Ben Solo could absolutely have been conceived without backtracking Luke’s arc to pre-ROTJ status. As with Han, we could have had new challenges and new circumstances that necessarily resurrected the heroes’ old selves in a progressive rather than regressive way.

Post
#1296356
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

I actually have not read it! I’m familiar with it and some of its ideas through its place in science fiction, its comparisons to Star Wars, and the Lynch adaptation (which I’ve never watched all the way through). I don’t know I haven’t read it yet, I know it is considered a classic and I’ve been wanting to pick it up, but now that movie is coming out I thought about holding off and getting my perspective on the film through a non-reader lens. Maybe we could discuss the film and compare our thoughts once it comes out since you are a repeat reader and I’ve never picked it up.

I will say the director, Denis Villenueve, is basically the best pick to adapt it. He is also a book fan, and all of his films have been pretty great (most recently Sicario, Arrival, Blade Runner 2049), and it has a stellar cast line up. I think they’ve split it into two parts in order to not cram in as much just in two hours. I think it is promising, and if he can’t adapt it satisfyingly I don’t think anyone can!

Well that does sound promising. I mean with the Lynch film I was like “well, what are you gonna do?”. I loved the visuals and general weirdness of the movie, but I basically felt (without slighting Lynch at all) that Dune just isn’t movie material. The books are just so rich in scope, and go waaay deep into politics and how myths are formed and how religion can manipulate all these things etc etc. I actually come away from reading Dune feeling smarter each time ha ha! But yeah, breaking the story up into a couple of parts would be wise! Thanks for the posts - I’m getting kinda excited for it now!

Post
#1296319
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

If you guys don’t mind me going off topic briefly, are you excited/anxious about the upcoming Dune film, Maul? Since you mentioned it I thought you might be a fan.

I haven’t looked into it to be honest, although a good friend of mine (we read Dune together in High School during the 80s) is super psyched. I quite liked the '84 film, even though it was arguably pretty hokey. My Dune relationship slightly echoes my Star Wars one in that I considered it all ‘canon’ (that is all of Frank’s novels as well as the Anderson/Herbert additions) until I had an inexplicable mental shift and realised it all didn’t quite add up. So, strictly speaking, I think the first four (Frank Herbert) books are awesome and everything else is a few rungs down from there. But I re-read Dune every couple of years. I think it’s basically a work of genius.

How about you? Are you a Dune-ist?

Post
#1296257
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

The whole legend/messiah/hermit routine was done really well in the Dune novels IMO. It’s a similar scenario (maybe Rian’s a fan?) where Paul’s prescience/power comes to a standstill and he wanders off into the desert to die. He survives of course, and becomes this ragged preacher who rails against the current regime from the sidelines, challenging his own legend as he does so.

The difference is Frank Herbert still manages to maintain the dignity of the character. I’m a big fan of the Gary Kurtz ‘disillusioned Luke wandering off into the sunset’ idea, but it comes with the caveat that Luke not become pathetic. Since I find ROTJ to be disappointingly dumbed-down (after the brilliantly nuanced TESB), I still cling to the notion of Luke rejecting the binary view of the Force shared by his mentors, and seeking a new path.

This is what TLJ should have been IMO. Not Luke ‘giving up’, but Luke rejecting the notion of Jedi orthodoxy. Perhaps he and Kylo could have shared a vision where death to one of them was revealed as the only outcome. Kylo embraces the vision (in his lust for power and the restoration of his grandfather’s evil legacy) and Luke rejects it because he’s sick of this ‘Dark Side/Light Side’ business and doesn’t want to kill his sister’s son. His not training Rey could be a ruse, a deliberate way of setting her on a new path free of the old Jedi constraints. When Yoda appears in TLJ, Luke reveals the ruse - that the old ways are gone now - and then does the Force-skype with Kylo. This would be a way of restoring the legend, setting a new agenda as well as a new ethical framework for Star Wars (there is no Dark Side, only the choices we make), and kickstarting a new type of Jedi.

I mean this essentially what the film was doing, but I don’t believe we needed to have Luke stand over Kylo with murderous (however fleeting) intent, or revert Luke to pre-ROTJ status with Yoda repeating the “always looking to the horizon” lecture. Luke’s ‘looking to the horizon’ was his strength. This movie should have, and could have, reinforced this.

Post
#1295621
Topic
Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other )
Time

StarkillerAG said:

I don’t know why you like Mauler so much. Most of his videos are multiple-hour rants about surface-level nitpicks and complaints that don’t even make sense. He’s one of my least favorite film analysis Youtubers.

While I don’t share your view, I certainly don’t hold Mauler as some paragon of truth, even if I do enjoy his content. And while I’m at it, I’m not the biggest fan of EFAP as it tends to slide into a ‘bullying gang’ mentality at times - more because of the other participants than Mauler himself. In fact during the debate I cited, I often felt Major Lee wasn’t getting a fair hearing, even if I didn’t agree with his comments. I think a one-on-one with Mauler would’ve been much more productive and civil.

But I think Mauler does an admirable job of attempting to stay on point. When it’s about plot, it’s about plot. When it’s about lore, it’s about lore. He’s very clear about when he’s being subjective (ie his rants) and objective (his analyses). He’s all about the films and the craft. It doesn’t mean he’s always right - I often disagree with him - but I do think he’s fair and doesn’t resort to the kind of strawmanning that other Youtubers do. And even more ironically, Major Lee had supposedly insulted Mauler on Twitter way before the EFAP thing and found himself having to apologise when he discovered that Mauler was rather reasonable. Like I keep saying, toxicity goes both ways.

And to Screams (if it is indeed me you’re referring to), I’m not trying to derail the thread or get a rise out of anyone. The thread, as I see it, is about toxicity and I honestly feel that the Major Lee video is feeding the fire, not extinguishing it. I don’t like the idea of internet bullying any more than you do, so I hope you understand that this is all in the interest of conversation and a shared desire for a nicer, more civil conversational space.

Peace and may the Force do its thing…

Post
#1295557
Topic
Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other )
Time

Let me just add (and then I’ll leave it alone) that I think there are worthy conversations to be had about internet toxicity (re Star Wars and everything else) just as there are worthy conversations to be had about identity politics in popular culture (not to mention conversations about SW storytelling, lore, characters etc etc). I just don’t think an equally toxic video that just happens to be coming from the opposite idealogical direction is the answer to this.

Okay, I’ll shut up now…

Post
#1295553
Topic
Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other )
Time

oojason said:

Shopping Maul said:

Broom Kid said:

Videos like the one above are helpful because they point out the grifting being done in the name of “fandom” at its ugliest, they point out that people can amass huge audiences in a fandom, and profit off those audiences, without ever having proved they even like the thing they’re dedicating all their time to. They can be seen as a very useful wake-up call for people wondering why they devote so much of who they are to these pursuits, when it doesn’t seem to make them like a thing more than the millions upon millions of other people who have never once even thought to join a forum or tweet about Star Wars, much less build a whole persona around it. In fact it seems to make them angrier and more frustrated way more often.

But for all the useful information in that video, it neglects the basic fact that “fandom” itself is a grift, selling people the lie that obsessing over fictional things whose creation is completely out of your control is a positive, healthy way to live. Fandom is grass-roots marketing at its purest, the belief that opting to be walking commercials for someone else’s art can be spiritually rewarding. That you can build meaningful, healthy relationships out of that shared obsession, and that the world can be made a better, more manageable, more interesting place by simply mixing consumerism with love and letting the two impulses inform one another.

Being a fan of things makes sense, is understandable, and mostly harmless. But there’s a problem with toxic fandom because the societal construct that is modern fandom is, itself, toxic.

Anyway, I like Star Wars, I like talking about it with people, and I like talking about it with people in small, quiet places, because talking about it with people in larger ones is an exercise in harvesting anger and frustration pretty much 100% of the time.

I love this post, thanks for posting it! The only thing I would add is that the video (I assume you’re referring to the Major Lee clip) is a perfect example of the problem - not the solution. I think a few folks here might be swayed by the fact that he’s supposedly on ‘our’ side of the argument, but he’s no better than the people he’s opposing. More tellingly, he debated a popular Youtuber named Mauler on a stream called EFAP and basically fell apart when it came to matters of plot, lore, characters etc etc regarding TLJ. I suspect this clip is his revenge.

I’d say the video highlights and informs people of what certain toxic channels and media are like and how they operate - rather than an attempt at a solution to the issue.

Again, taking the video on it’s own merit it doesn’t really matter that the creator of it didn’t apparantly converse well in some sort of online debate - the points made in the video still stand - they aren’t diminished or disappear because of a chat with whoever this Mauler fellow is.

‘Revenge’? Really? Well even IF so, then it seems something constructive has come out of this supposed attempt at ‘revenge’ then - nice one 😃

As in the TLJ Spoiler thread, I don’t understand the ‘swaying’ thing - or ‘sides’ - the video seems to simply illustrate what some of the more hyperbolic, toxic, or repeatedly negative channels & media out there over a couple of years - maybe longer. It seems to be one of the few out videos there that has done such in this manner (as far I can know - though please link or share any others; I think Biggs Audio Dynamite wanted people to PM him with any other examples?)

Also, as in the TLJ Spoiler thread - it seems you are attempting to somehow discredit [or denigrate] the man behind the video - rather than discussing the actual content he highlighted in the video. A shame, that.

I’ll leave it there as I don’t know anything about this MajorLee guy (other than he made an insightful video on the toxicity in some of the Star Wars media) - and I’m now just repeating what has already been said in the TLJ Spoiler thread 😉
 

He has basically picked three or four of the most outspoken Youtubers of a certain type - ie the ones who aggressively conflate SW with identity politics - and cynically merged it with a general position that ‘the haters don’t understand the genius of TLJ’. It’s a silly argument that typically ignores - and even ridicules - the enormous spectrum of opinion that actually resides between and around those two separate subjects.

The reason I pointed out his EFAP debate is that Mauler - unlike other critics - only debates films at the level of technique, storytelling, narrative consistency etc etc. And in this instance Major Lee fell to pieces and revealed quite tellingly that he doesn’t care about these things at all and loves TLJ regardless. Which is absolutely fine, but he knows that there are genuine reasons for fans to take issue with the films (particularly TLJ) and/or the direction they’re going in, and instead uses this video to strawman any detractors before delivering the punchline at the end (which is, of course, that TLJ is brilliant). It’s sloppy argumentation that adds nothing of value to this conversation.

Post
#1295504
Topic
Taking a stand against toxic fandom (and other )
Time

Broom Kid said:

Videos like the one above are helpful because they point out the grifting being done in the name of “fandom” at its ugliest, they point out that people can amass huge audiences in a fandom, and profit off those audiences, without ever having proved they even like the thing they’re dedicating all their time to. They can be seen as a very useful wake-up call for people wondering why they devote so much of who they are to these pursuits, when it doesn’t seem to make them like a thing more than the millions upon millions of other people who have never once even thought to join a forum or tweet about Star Wars, much less build a whole persona around it. In fact it seems to make them angrier and more frustrated way more often.

But for all the useful information in that video, it neglects the basic fact that “fandom” itself is a grift, selling people the lie that obsessing over fictional things whose creation is completely out of your control is a positive, healthy way to live. Fandom is grass-roots marketing at its purest, the belief that opting to be walking commercials for someone else’s art can be spiritually rewarding. That you can build meaningful, healthy relationships out of that shared obsession, and that the world can be made a better, more manageable, more interesting place by simply mixing consumerism with love and letting the two impulses inform one another.

Being a fan of things makes sense, is understandable, and mostly harmless. But there’s a problem with toxic fandom because the societal construct that is modern fandom is, itself, toxic.

Anyway, I like Star Wars, I like talking about it with people, and I like talking about it with people in small, quiet places, because talking about it with people in larger ones is an exercise in harvesting anger and frustration pretty much 100% of the time.

I love this post, thanks for posting it! The only thing I would add is that the video (I assume you’re referring to the Major Lee clip) is a perfect example of the problem - not the solution. I think a few folks here might be swayed by the fact that he’s supposedly on ‘our’ side of the argument, but he’s no better than the people he’s opposing. More tellingly, he debated a popular Youtuber named Mauler on a stream called EFAP and basically fell apart when it came to matters of plot, lore, characters etc etc regarding TLJ. I suspect this clip is his revenge.

For my part I love talking about Star Wars in exhausting geeky detail because not only is it a wonderful escape from the everyday, but this is something 11 year-old me could only have dreamed of back in the day (ie debating Rogue One plotholes with other manbabies!).

Post
#1295317
Topic
Small details that took you <em><strong>FOREVER</strong></em> to notice in the <em>Star Wars</em> films
Time

ZkinandBonez said:

Only a few years ago did I notice that Darth Vader’s helmet wobbles in the wind while he delivers the “search your feelings” line (and the rest of the scene until Luke falls) in ESB.

It’s become for me one of those; once you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it moments.

Or the bit where Luke leaps down from the Carbon Freezing platform and bounces off a little trampoline…(I didn’t spot that one, I read it somewhere)!

Post
#1294756
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

RogueLeader said:

NO SPOILERS

Hey Everyone,

I believe a new batch of leaks regarding Episode IX has dropped, and people have been compiling the known leaks into a pretty extensive plot layout for the film. I haven’t read through it all, but from what I’ve read it still seems a bit confusing and disjointed because a lot of things are still missing, but if the sources are legitimate then you will know a lot about the movie before going into it.

If you have been keeping up with this thread just keep up with Episode IX news and discussion, but you still want to be a little surprised by the movie, I think this is a good stopping point.

So I would recommend staying off this thread and avoiding forums like all of the Star Wars subreddits (in particular r/StarWarsLeaks). During the ‘dry seasons’ Leaks was a good place to keep up with Star Wars news, but now I feel like the POTENTIAL spoilers are getting pretty substantial. I would try to block certain Star Wars YouTube channels as well if that is even possible.

I think this is what I’m going to do from this point forward. This fall is gonna fly by really fast, and it’ll be a flash in between Mandalorian airing the IX releasing.

So, if you’re like me, now might be a good time to commit to avoiding potential spoilers, otherwise you’re gonna start seeing things you wish you hadn’t.

You’re awesome Rogue! Thanks for the heads up!

Post
#1294744
Topic
Similarities between the Original Trilogy and the Sequel Trilogy
Time

DominicCobb said:

Of course the “inconsequential” similarities can be a bit too much also. In both TPM and TFA, the aerial battle to take down the spherical battle station plays second fiddle to the more engaging lightsaber duel. And while the goals of the battles are the same - take out the threat (battle droids, super laser) - TFA takes the similarity a step too far by having it be essentially another Death Star. Now, I don’t think my theory here is quite exact, because ROTJ does that too, but I think it must be because there aren’t as many other similarities in ROTJ that it doesn’t bother people as much. Or maybe it did at one point but it’s been so long now no one cares. I don’t know, just thinking out loud.

I think ROTJ has earned something of a free pass over time. As far as I can tell it used to get flack for a lot of the same reasons as the prequels, with repetition being one of those. Personally I’d just add that there was something rather awesome about seeing the Death Star battle and aesthetic being revisited with improved SPFX back in '83. But to then repeat it again 30 years later - especially now that incredible SPFX has become somewhat trivial as a concept - might be a step too far for many.

Post
#1294741
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

RogueLeader said:

Agreed. The real answer was just like you said, Lucas’ relaxed views on continuity and if it is really that important. There’s definitely ways to explain it though I think. I did use to feel that it was one of the weaker elements of the OT, as far as it having very little set up and feeling tacked on. But over time I’ve realized the very PG incest vibes give Luke another similarity to King Arthur, who in some iterations of his legend had unknowingly slept with his own sister, resulting in Mordred, who would go on to betray Arthur and destroy Camelot.

Not really prequel related I suppose. Though you could argue the prequels parallel Arthurian legend as far as the Republic being like Ancient Rome which feel in the time before Arthur, and his father Uther Pendragon being analogous to Anakin in some ways. So the prequels continue that tradition of mirroring real myths that the OT started.

I don’t think these parallels were intentional but they do make me enjoy them more. Repeating ideas, even if it was unknowingly.

I absolutely hear ya! And I find this fascinating from the perspective of having occupied both camps - I was a fan who happily squared all the round holes to make it all fit, just as I am now a fan with a more ‘ruthless’ canon-sense. Neither is ‘correct’ of course, it’s just down to personal credulity and subjectivity. I mean is Jar Jar Binks a clever riff on some kind of mythological ‘jester trope’ (and a homage to Charlie Chaplin) or is he just a badly written cartoon character that annoyed everyone over the age of 9? It’s an interesting question with no true answer. But it’s so fun to discuss!

Post
#1294718
Topic
Similarities Between the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy
Time

yotsuya said:

The one thing that a lot of people have issue with is Leia remembering her mother. I don’t. Leia is obviously force sensitive and picked up something from her mother in the womb. As many of us have confusing memories from when we were young (Luke making two throws with the grappling hook for instance), Leia may have confusing memories of a mother she never really saw with her own eyes. Lucas did a good job creating a character in ANH that fits with being Luke’s sister even if that wasn’t his original intention. But such surprising story revelation are common in myths. I’m curious if TROS will have some and if we can’t make another topic for that one after the film comes out (we can only intelligently discuss about half the ST because we don’t know how events in TROS might recolor what we have already seen as the revelation of Luke’s father and sister colored dialog and events in ANH and TESB).

Always love your posts so I promise I’m not trolling, but I think this ‘sister’ business is giving Lucas waaaay too much credit. George was basically clumsily writing his way out of a corner on this one, and it absolutely shows. We have obvious romantic overtones in the first two films, we have no evidence of Leia’s having been adopted other than a clumsy “hey Leia, you know how you were adopted” line from Luke in ROTJ, we have Yoda rejecting Luke on age grounds yet supposedly thinking an entirely untrained twin would not only be viable but also be amenable to being a potential Jedi despite the shock of suddenly being Vader’s daughter, we have Yoda making the initial ‘other’ claim while Leia was a prisoner on Bespin whose unforeseeable fate Yoda himself had implored Luke to sacrifice for the greater good etc etc etc. To then add the extra layer of Leia’s memories not squaring with the prequels (Lucas is demonstrated to have assumed that Leia’s mother had survived until the twins were toddlers back in ‘81) just shows Lucas’ very relaxed views when it comes to continuity, rather than some sophisticated grasp of mythology.

Post
#1294424
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

NeverarGreat said:

Shopping Maul said:

Mocata said:

I don’t know if they showed a new planet, but it looked vaguely like place where Maz Canata lived. Maybe she had a bunch of other Jedi junk lying around. Then again maybe it’s just a generic forest world.

I assumed it was a vision as soon as I watched it and I suspect most people did. Not really a slip up on the official discussion leak.

It didn’t stop all the evil clone discussions.

I thought it might be Endor. The hippie festival Rey and co. come upon looks like it could be an Ewok thing?

Didn’t some of the early concept art for Ep 9 show Yavin 4? That would be my guess as to where the ‘new’ Resistance base is, and where Rey is training with the probe.

I’m assuming the Death Star chunk crash-landed on Endor and maybe wreaked enough ecological damage to create barren areas, hence the landscape behind Rey and co. as they advance upon the festival. The Ewoks may be gathering to combat the great evil that has been spreading from the DS wreckage since the battle 30 years ago. Rey could simply have gotten the remote from the Falcon where Finn tossed it aside in TFA.
Or has it been established that it’s the first Death Star in the ocean…?

Post
#1294419
Topic
Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

Mocata said:

I don’t know if they showed a new planet, but it looked vaguely like place where Maz Canata lived. Maybe she had a bunch of other Jedi junk lying around. Then again maybe it’s just a generic forest world.

I assumed it was a vision as soon as I watched it and I suspect most people did. Not really a slip up on the official discussion leak.

It didn’t stop all the evil clone discussions.

I thought it might be Endor. The hippie festival Rey and co. come upon looks like it could be an Ewok thing?