Speaking as a prequel fan, guys like Rick Worley were the worst thing to happen to the prequel fandom. They’re full of resentment.
I think a lot of Star Wars fans online are very insecure or have persecution complexes about which films they like. Many of them don’t handle criticism well. When someone else says something negative about their preferred film or show or trilogy, they’re unable to just say “Fine, whatever” and move on, or to at least respectfully disagree. They take it personally and go out of their way to make those more critical perspectives seem unwelcome, as though they’re afraid it will “ruin the fun” for them. Every fandom has that problem to some degree, but it seems to be especially bad with Star Wars.
I’d watch Mad Max: Rebo Road in a heartbeat.
“Y’know, a guy named William Shakesman once said, “brevity is the soul of wit.” This just means don’t waste my time. You keep it nice and simple.”
Sorry champ but a 3:41 video is a tough ask for anyone to sit through. Also I think Mike makes a pretty good allegory for what George did, comedic and light heartedly.
Also, I mean there was an original version of the films, watched for 20 years really. Maybe a few technically different versions if you want to say new crawls and 70mm changes, mono mixes, etc.
EDIT: yikes this is also the Woody Allen is innocent guy too
Explain how changes in the sound mix are trivial, but changes in special effects are not.
The difference is that Despecialized and 4k77 give you the option of which audio track you want to listen to. With the Special Editions, there is no option. And added CGI is far more intrusive into the film than a few sound mix differences. A few audio tracks that can be easily switched between don’t constitute different versions of the movie, since it’s still the same cut of the movie. Everything from 1997 onward are distinctive versions.
I take issue with Worley’s blanket vilification of every fan who criticized the prequels or the Special Edition. He insists in the video that it would take a lot of money and effort to restore the original cuts, and that it wouldn’t be financially worthwhile because the only people who want the old cuts are just a small vocal group of butthurt fanboys who can’t accept change. And that’s just blatantly false. The demand for the original cuts, or at least for cuts that delete all the added CGI from 97 and restore the old practical effects, is very significant. Even execs at Lucasfilm have admitted that there’s a huge amount of fan interest in it, and you need only look at the huge bootleg industry on eBay for Despecialized and 4K77. Even the GOUTs still sell high and are sought after.
All of this adds up to that if Lucasfilm ever actually went through with it, it would be massively profitable move that would win them a lot of fan goodwill. So purely from a profit-seeking perspective, as well as a film preservation perspective, it’s overwhelmingly the right thing to do.
Creators have the right to revise their work, and there are plenty of well done director’s cuts of movies out there, but there’s a good reason the Special Editions are often held up as precisely how not to do a director’s cut. People may like specific changes made, but many changes take you out of the film, and ultimately, the theatrical cuts are a more cohesive, authentic experience of watching classic movies made in 77, 80, and 83. That’s why we’re here.
Wow. You got us. Let’s call it quits, everybody. I guess we’ve been lying to ourselves this whole time.
I’ve watched this video before. Wasn’t impressed. Made me lose what little respect I had left for Worley.
The despecialized version of Return of the Jedi fits better with the rest of the old EU than any of the subsequent Special Editions. I personally don’t like the idea of a victory celebration all across the Galaxy. As we know through the EU, the Battle of Endor didn’t mean the total defeat of the Empire in the entire Galaxy, but simply the turning point in the fight against the Empire. In fact, after Endor the Empire still had control of many of the most important planets, including Coruscant and Naboo. Thus, seeing a victory celebration on those two planets makes no sense, because they were still in Imperial hands and the Rebellion had not yet totally won the war. So, I think it would be better to circumscribe the celebration on Endor without showing any other celebration in the Galaxy. Therefore, Yub Nub is a necessary evil that I’m willing to accept for a matter of consistency with the rest of the EU.
Yeah, I’ve always preferred the old ending for that reason. It’s more open to interpretation about what happens next. The new ending wraps things up almost too neatly, implying that the war is over, when it shouldn’t be.
PT: Nute Gunray, I guess. Just because he’s basically the main villain of TPM and gets a lot of screentime and he just sucks, and not even in a fun way.
OT: I hate to say this, but if I had to choose, it’d be Chewie in Empire. Just cause his roaring starts to grate on you by the end of the movie.
ST: Maz Kanata. She’s supposed to be this venerable, wise character, but she never actually says anything of value, as far as I remember.
Fandoms on the internet seem to have trouble comprehending that actors and the characters they play are different people. I guess that’s a hard concept to grasp for some fans.
Luke: the tunic he wears at Jabba’s palace in RotJ
Leia: either her medal ceremony dress or her Hoth gear
Han: his ANH outfit
For me, the issue is less the lightsaber and more the fact that Luke expressed his wish to become a Jedi like his father, and the only mentor (supposedly) who could make that happen is dead by the end of the movie. That, along with the survival of Vader and the Emperor, are the two biggest reasons why the movie needed a sequel, in my opinion.
The third film in every Star Wars trilogy feels rushed and a little crammed with too much stuff. I’d argue that RotJ feels the least crammed, though. After reading JW Rinzler’s book on the making of RotJ, I understand a little better why Lucas and Kasdan made the creative choices they did and the rationales for them. The Death Star, for example. It was a choice made between blowing up another Death Star or blowing up “Had Abbadon” the Imperial City, and ultimately, reusing the Death Star was the more sensible option from a budget and special effects standpoint, as well as helping to streamline the 3rd act.
I’m sure George was influenced by it, at least on a subconscious level. Since he was raised Christian, it’s hard not to have that upbringing show through in your work, especially in a good vs. evil fantasy story. The morality of Star Wars is more Buddhist than Christian, though.
I just finished watching 4K80 and 4K83 back-to-back. I wondered beforehand whether watching RotJ right after ESB would make RotJ look bad by comparison, but it didn’t. In fact, it made me realize how well those two films go together. ESB is dark and gloomy and claustrophobic and full of setbacks for the heroes. RotJ is lighter and goofier and has everything fall into place by the end. It’s a kind of reprieve after the events of Empire. I think the trilogy needed that.
I just finished reading Kenobi by John Jackson Miller. I thought it was really good. A really well crafted Western that featured Obi-Wan as not the protagonist, but as a pivotal character who comes into the protagonist’s life. All of the chapters are from the POVs of other characters, not Obi-Wan himself, and the only glimpses we get into his mind are the “meditation” passages of him communing with Qui-Gon and reflecting on his experiences. It’s a brilliant choice, because it creates this aura of mystery around Obi-Wan in the eyes of the other characters, while still showing us his emotional state after all that’s happened.
I decided to read it as a sort of “prologue” before I read the ANH novelization. After that, I’ll read ESB, then Shadows of the Empire, then RotJ, then Truce at Bakura, then Luke Skywalker & the Shadows of Mindor. That way, I’ll be following a sort of linear, continuous story starting from Luke’s infancy.
Anyway, I apologize to you G&G Fan. I was wrong about what I said, and it’s embarrassing to look at the original thread and see myself defending a viewpoint which I really think should have been obvious how wrong it was. I’m feeling that way more and more about the shit I’ve said on the internet years past. Although Nerdonymous’s major chip on his shoulder really does make the video fucking suck.
You’re good man. I’ll think about messages I’ve sent here before that just make me cringe (me bending over backwards to defend the Prequels, like my old Yoda thread). I’ve funnily gone from one of the biggest Prequel defenders to agreeing with a lot of people’s issues, even if I still enjoy ROTS a lot (tho I’ve changed my mind about it being better then ANH; ANH is awesome). My last rewatch of the saga had me saying all the same stuff most OT fans say. I used to use Rick fucking Worley videos to support my points before coming to the inevitable realization that he’s an egotistical idiot (probably should’ve been tipped off by him slandering Marvel; the MCU is awesome, I will take no sass). Sometimes I’ve exploded in ways that are just embarrassing to look back at, too.
But in the end we all grow and change and evolve.
I know how you feel, man. I used to be a MauLer fan and thought that Rick Worley was right about everything. I used to get way too worked up arguing about these movies, and it’s pretty embarrassing, looking back. Life’s too short for all that. I still like the prequels, but I agree with a lot of the criticisms about them, and I still dislike the sequels, but I’m not going to try to argue that they’re “objectively” bad or whatever. There’s no point to that.
Obi-Wan is an overrated character
Honestly, yeah. He was my favorite character as a kid, but he’s kind of a jerk and a stick-in-the-mud in TPM and AotC, and then he lies to and manipulates Luke, of course. I still like him, overall, but the whole idolization of Obi-Wan among prequel fans on Reddit is really excessive.
Showing an innocent child who turns into an inhuman monster who kills children is very impactful as well, and showing Anakin’s childhood and his life in slavery is important to understand his character.
(Almost) Every child is innocent. Showing that Anakin was a good kid means nothing. I’m sure Jeffrey Dahmer was a “good kid”. What actually matters is seeing that Anakin was a good man.
Exactly. When you go from TPM to AotC, there’s a disconnect because little Ani and grown up Anakin don’t really register as the same character. TPM is trying to show Anakin at his most noble before he starts to go Dark, but it doesn’t really feel like it counts because he’s 9.
It feels like this is a cycle that’s doomed to repeat. Someone starts watching the video, recommends it on here, then reconsiders after watching more of it.
This Nerdonymous does a lot of research, but he has a serious chip on his shoulder that gets in the way of his videos having any value.
Another bit of discontinuity between the OT & PT. In the OT, only the darksiders are determinists (It is your destiny, I have foreseen it, yadda yadda), while the Jedi believe in free will (Always in motion is the future.) The Chosen One prophecy is at odds with the cosmology of the OT.
I want to agree, but Obi-Wan does tell Luke “You cannot escape your destiny.”
Man, you guys don’t like Legacy?
I haven’t read it yet, so I can’t say.
There have been Star Wars stories that have had tight continuity between them, and they don’t feel any less like Star Wars as a result. The Kotor games still feel Star Warsy and have all the Star Wars qualities while still having tight writing and telling a competent story.
If the 1977 movie had been poorly written, none of us would even be on this site or so invested in this fictional universe. The fact that Star Wars has had so much sloppy writing since then isn’t something endearing or worth celebrating, because we know Star Wars can be better than that. All that sloppy writing and confusing continuity will do is drive away potential fans from checking Star Wars out.
To me, Rogue One was a VERY polished movie. I really enjoyed it. That being said, in my humble opinion, it did feel a little less star warsy. Primarily because it did not have the cheesy writing, humor, or as many continuity errors as the OT movies did. They really nailed the look down though. I walked out of the theater knowing it would be an immediate Blu Ray purchase once available.
To me, Rogue One felt less Star Warsy because it reveled in violence and moral ambiguity a little bit more than the Lucas films did. I wouldn’t say it was devoid of continuity issues, either. The ending of the movie doesn’t really line up with how ANH starts, and ends up making both Leia and Vader look stupid and the Empire look less overbearing and tyrannical.
The Legends timeline ends at 19 ABY.
The Canon timeline ends at RotJ.
After Luke’s death, Tatooine became a major pilgrimage site for people around the galaxy wanting to see where “the Son of Suns” was raised.
Meh. Plot holes-smot holes… It is all in good fun. I love that there are gaps in continuity and plot holes. It would not be Star Wars otherwise. If the original trilogy had plot holes that contradicted themselves, why should the prequel, sequel trilogies and Disney spin offs be any different?
I would actually argue that if everything in the star wars universe actually aligned perfectly, then it would not be star wars anymore.
Being apathetic about plot holes, I can understand. But loving plot holes? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. It’s not like Star Wars needs sloppy writing to feel like Star Wars. If the continuity were more polished, it wouldn’t suddenly feel less Star Warsy.
I think Lucas himself kind of debunked that. He said that Yoda couldn’t really have done anything different. He was just manipulated into a no-win situation.
Yes, because Lucas has a fetish for the Jedi, so the Jedi can’t be wrong and saint Yoda is always right, especially when… well… he tells you to just do nothing but be happy when people around you dies.
Not saying I agree with Lucas. Just saying it wasn’t an intentional character arc.
Yes, I know you don’t agree with him haha. Well, I think that even if it’s not an intentional character arc, it’s still a nice way to see It.
Yeah, I think so, too.