SKot

These films and the short-lived series are a bit dated and cheesey, but they have a few historic sci-fi moments and are still worth watching and/or preserving:
 

Westworld (1973)
Directed by Michael Crichton(!), the first film has only seen a bare-bones DVD release so far.  However, there is an additional “Making of Westworld” DVD that was released separately.  There was also a TV airing featuring a couple of extra scenes that would be a good candidate for a preservation effort.
 

Futureworld (1976)
The sequel to Westworld has never seen a US DVD release, but is available streaming on Netflix and as a digital download or manufacture-on-demand DVD-R on Amazon.
 

Beyond Westworld (1980)
This short-lived series only managed to air 3 of the 5 completed episodes.  It has never been released on DVD (or even VHS, to my knowledge).  All 5 episodes are out there, though, and have been available as torrents in the past.  This is another item that screams for a preservation.

I’ve recently watched Westworld and Futureworld, but have not been able to get my hands on the Beyond Westworld series, beyond a couple of  segments posted on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXWa_TfWxrA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhx-Kq4-g_Q

and a promo for the show:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USl3Jkp1Aok
 

So a preservation for at least the TV cut of Westworld and the TV series would be worth doing, I think.

–SKot

*bump*

I have just edited my original post to reflect the new 2011 Blu-ray releases of the films.  From what I've seen and from going through Chris Gould's updated changes list, it looks like the quick and dirty breakdown for the versions presented on BD is something like this:

Star Wars (new 2011 version)
The Empire Strikes Back (new 2011 version)
Return Of The Jedi (new 2011 version)

The Phantom Menace (new 2011 version)
Attack Of The Clones (same as DVD version)
Revenge Of The Sith (same as original theatrical version)

I know that AOTC has some slight color timing changes and possibly a small audio addition, but I'm only counting actual frame editing changes here...so for the sake of this listing I'm considering it the basically the same version.

And for Revenge Of The Sith, it's interesting that we got back the original theatrical cut, with the original wipe intact.  First time in history that LFL went backwards and released an older version of the film?  It HAD to be unintentional!

I tried to update the best sources listing as well, although that may have changed in recent years.  If I've missed any sources better than what's listed, let me know.

--SKot

Sluggo said:

SilverWook said:

Thanks for the info, Skot. I get the impression the making of the HS would make for an interesting documentary or book.

Of course, this would entail Lucas revealing the true depth of his involvement with it. ;)

So SKot, when it is done, would you autograph my copy?

 But of course!  Sadly, you're a bit too late for Bea Arthur's signature on it.

--SKot

SilverWook said:

Thanks for the info, Skot. I get the impression the making of the HS would make for an interesting documentary or book.

Of course, this would entail Lucas revealing the true depth of his involvement with it. ;)

 Which, if the truth were told, was actually very minimal.  He basically handed CBS a story outline, recommended they use Nelvana for an animated feature, and told them to run with it.  What happened after that had little or nothing at all to do with Lucas.  Which means that could be further incentive for George to actually *want* the tale told...after all, the world at large thinks he made the HS and blames him for its awfulness, so telling the real story would clear his name to some degree!

--SKot

SilverWook said:

I didn't realize you meant a leica of the Boba cartoon existed. Was this on the official site? And did someone preserve it?

It was indeed on the official site in its entirety, as part of the 30th anniversary tribute week back in 2008.  Unfortunately, it has all been swept away as part of the new site revamp...but many of us were wise enough to save a copy (since this isn't the first time old archives on that site have disappeared), so you'll be able to see it one way or another.

As it was part of the HS, I would presume CBS got it on tape. There is no reason they would have had to telecine it themselves.

Hard to say.  CBS did all the videotaping and editing themselves, and Nelvana would have supplied the cartoon to them in whatever the usual format was.  I believe the cartoon arrived at the 11th hour, as well...just a few days before broadcast!  Since CBS ultimately put it all together, they would have had to edit the cartoon into the video they already had shot.  So either they telecined it themselves and then edited it together, or they had an already-telecined videotape copy from Nelvana that they edited in.

The R&R DVD didn't mention the specific loss of anything else. Studios don't seem to like to talk about such things in detail, if the Universal backlot fire a couple years back is any example.

All the more reason to get this kind of stuff on digital as quickly as possible.  A solitary copy left in a studio's hands, eventually someone will screw it up.

--SKot

SilverWook said:

IIRC, on the "Rock and Rule" DVD, a vault fire was mentioned as to why the alternate cut of that film survives only on videotape.

I have to wonder what else Nelvana may have lost?

 That would be unfortunate.  But then how did Lucasfilm get hold of the Leica animatic reel, and why didn't they have the cartoon as well?

It begs the question of where the original film reel would have resided.  What form did CBS receive it in, in 1978?  Was it already converted to videotape?  If so, that might explain the source of the alternate cut floating around.  If not, and CBS got the cartoon on film, they would have had to telecine it themselves and insert it into the HS...and then where did the film go?  If CBS hung onto it, Lucasfilm would have picked it up when they acquired the HS rights and masters in the 80s.  If they sent it back to Nelvana (which seems unlikely), then it could have been lost in that fire.

Did the "Rock and Rule" DVD specifically mention the HS cartoon being in the fire?

--SKot

Nice; thanks for that, AF!  That border not being optional is a real detractor.  It also means the 4:3 cartoon doesn't fill the whole frame like it should.

Looks like the wacky commercial is missing, along with the entire "computer bleep" intro and outro.  Which leads me to believe that this is indeed sourced from the HS master tape.  The missing intro/outro is the biggest clue: since the outro shows up in a tiny window on Lumpy's viewscreen in the broadcast, they would have had to either show a few seconds of live action with Lumpy or cut out the intro/outro entirely.  They went with the latter, of course.

Too bad they didn't (or couldn't) use Nelvana's master animation reel. That would have been on at least 16mm film, like the Leica animatic reel they had online a while back...which they could have scanned in hi-res and included in uncut form.  However, this does confirm one good thing: Lucasfilm apparently has a master copy of the HS that is in good shape.  The only previous excerpt from this cartoon was in the "Bucket Head" web documentary, and the quality of the picture in that one was bootleggishly bad...leaving some of us to wonder if their only archive copy was crap.

Since this wasn't technically a real easter egg (not hidden; just a regular menu option), I wonder if any interesting actual easter eggs will show up?

--SKot

none said:

Starwars.com got a redesign (everything radically simplified) and there's a section for outside websites (only 21 or so selected) but SKot's Holiday Special site is one of them.  Congrats!

http://www.starwars.com/connect/fan-sites/

 I'm extremely pleased to see that my site made the list and got official recognition!  I'm also pleased to see Starwars.com getting simplified in a way that looks like it will be more meaty and less Flash-y.  Previous incarnations were a bit full of bells and whistles and kind of buried the content part.

I'm curious, though, how much of the older content now will find its way back to accessibility.  Far too often perfectly good information just disappears into the ether when a site gets revamped...surface trimmings should never supercede or replace actual useful content!

--SKot

My guess is that the whole thing would be on there, as it's only 11 minutes long and can theoretically be sourced from the actual original film that Nelvana provided - which is perfect for scanning at hi-res and putting on Blu-ray.  And that would also mean that, in theory, the whole uncut cartoon would be there including the cut "commercial" segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRSfkcAlVaE

Let's hope it is!

--SKot

So that's how he does it!

DVDs don't smash nearly as well as videotapes, though.  But where is the famous hammer?

--SKot

My money's on the cartoon being the only thing they put on there...partially because it's the only element that was done on film and therefore would be available to scan in hi-res for this release, and partially because that's the only thing in the Special that Lucasfilm has admitted isn't half bad.

Of course, if they dropped in a clip or two from, say, the Falcon cockpit scene, I'd be over the moon.

I'll get right to work on that "originalholidayspecial.com" domain... ;)

--SKot

Recycling is good.

none said:

SKot wrote: I've been following this thread with great interest.

cheeky basterd.  Thanks for the memories.  Do you remember much about the IRC trolling?  Was it SW based fans doing the distribution or the hardcore movie traders, guessing the later.  Remember seeing AotC on an irc channel found off of the vcdquality irc, my first dip into that arena.  But wouldn't be surprised if some of the more well known SW websites had copies of TPM for their moderators and crew.  How bad was the podrace splice?

It was hardcore movie traders.  I had to lie low for a while and listen in to get the feel of what they were up to and how they worked.  I knew I was likely to be looked down on for only being there for one movie, and for having nothing really to offer in trade.  But occasionally I found someone who would talk to me about it.

The podrace splice was pretty choppy, quite a few frames missing.  I remember well that it happened right during the sequence where Anakin goes up the "ramp" and makes the jump.  He hits the ramp, cut to him in the air, cut to him landing on the ground.

I think the telecine came along fairly late in the game in the trading circles, by which time TPM was (relatively) old news and the VHS/laserdisc was probably already on its way, hence its lack of exposure and low distribution.  Nobody cared except for the most obsessive fanatics looking for the best possible reference copy...and I guess I fell into that category.

The Aluminum Falcon said:

Wow Skot! A telecine copy would be fantastic. I didn't know anything existed like that for Episode I. It would definitely be "one of the best sources ever." Hopefully, you can find it along with your copy of the Z version. The history in the bootlegging of TPM is really fascinating and seems to be growing more and more intriguing...

It is potentially a very great source; however, one thing to keep in mind is that although the quality of that telecine in full screen in 1999 seemed pretty amazing, I was probably running on a 17" monitor with a 1024x768 screen resolution.  What looked decent then probably looks tiny and terrible now.  My copy of the original camcordered SDCC showing of the Biggs cut scenes now looks positively microscopic.

If one could somehow track down the actual source of the TPM telecine, though...what if a higher-resolution original copy is out there?  Or perhaps they didn't care anymore either once the DVD came out...

--SKot

I've been following this thread with great interest.

I remember the 'Z' version of TPM.  There was a 'Z' version of The Matrix as well, in those heady early days of big movie digital downloads...back in 1999.  I was working in a place that gave me access to a VERY big internet pipe for the time, and I certainly utilized it to the fullest!  I remember the excitement of downloading first the TPM trailers, and then finally (some time after attending the opening night) the movie itself.  Nothing could hold me back...I had to be able to view parts of the film at any given moment, and I watched it over and over again.  I think I was numb from excitement.

And then I remember looking for better versions after that.  Spending time in IRC channels, trolling the underbelly of the net, looking specifically for any improvement on my copy of this film.  I remember hearing about the AB version, which sounded like it was better, but I never was able to get hold of it.  Finally, I hit the jackpot: a TELECINE copy of the movie, hosted on an FTP site somewhere.  It was in two parts, and you could tell it was actual film because at one point during the podrace you could see where the film had been broken and spliced.  It may have had Asian subtitles.  But it was amazing, and definitely trumped anything else I'd seen out there.  Unfortunately, I was only able to get the first half and a small section of the second half before the source disappeared, and I never found it again.

I am fairly sure I have both of these still.  I had an archive directory for the theatrical version of TPM, and in it were the 'Z' copy (which I kept because it was complete), and the partial telecine.  Unfortunately, they're both locked on a hard drive that I need recovered...but I have high hopes for its recovery (I believe only the drive motor is bad).  I *may* have one of them on a CD-ROM somewhere.

Years later I spent some time trying to find the rest of that telecine copy, but I found that nobody cared about it once the VHS & DVD had come out, and most people had discarded their copies.  Turns out it could be one of the best sources ever for a true theatrical copy of the film.

--SKot

Really, really excited to see the progress that's been made on this project...particularly regarding the Italian Cut and the revelation that the 16mm version is different.  Just saw the extra SEN footage - what a find!

Some of you have seen this already, I'm sure, but for those who haven't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TnjmIMyG1M

A Queen/THX 1138 connection...who knew?

--SKot

All right then.

I don't usually post in Off Topic, the picture is a couple years old, it's in my profile anyway, and I don't hawk it that often lately.  But I do like being able to recognize people at events.  So here's me.

--SKot

Fantastic to hear this is complete -- can't wait to see how the final full Jabba scene looks.

Are people in the US actually finding DVD players that will handle PAL?  I know PAL/NTSC players are a dime a dozen in the UK, but here in the States we apparently don't think PAL exists.  Some years back when I was looking for a NTSC/PAL player, I found that no retailer actually seemed to carry them...unless you special-ordered online.

I tend to watch all my PAL discs through a PC anyway, so it's not a big deal for me.

--SKot

Mahjong123 said:

Hi everyone,

 

I'm new here at the forums and I'm seriously interested in the SWHS. I have no clue why (as it really is awful) but I love it. It has to be the cartoon. That and Bea Arthur...

She really is irresistable, isn't she?  ;)

I have a copy of the KCCI version (as well as, among others, the WMAR, KCMO, and one from Chicago) and love it. As I have read, you have all agreed that the KCCI is the best right? I just want to make sure I do have the best available to me...

 Yes, it has generally been agreed that the KCCI is the best overall version out there.  It suffers a slightly dark picture, but so far is the best we've seen.  Recently the Chicago version has given the KCCI a run for its money, but I think the KCCI still wins overall.

On to part 2 of my post. I'm wondering if you might help me with something. I want to take the audio from the French broadcast and sync it with the KCCI broadcast. The only problem is that I've only found ghastly clips on YouTube and one synced the the WMAR Baltimore broadcast (with little segements missing here and there, so it is really useless to me). Is there a full version of the original french broadcast available somewhere I could take a look at? I know its a big project, but I've got some time at the end of this week to attempt it. I'd be more than happy to share it once I'm done.

 Something to bear in mind is that the Holiday Special was edited down (very well, I might add - all the worst things were excised!) when it was broadcast in France.  So that's why it might seem to be missing segments.

So you're just looking for the complete French audio then?

--SKot

MattMahdi said:

Skot, have you checked out Ralph McQuarrie's web page:

http://www.ralphmcquarrie.com/gallery_1/star_wars/tv_special/

I can't figure out how to get a closer look at the gallery images, but a few I don't think I recognize. (It's hard when I'm squinting at something the size of a small postage stamp.)

The paragraph to the left is a short summary of production and why it turned out a ghastly mess.

(Ah, never mind, just went back to the main page: "PLEASE NOTE: All thumbnails will eventually become clickable pop-ups.")

Yes indeed, there's some great-looking unseen artwork there.  I keep hoping they will convert those to larger image pop-ups, but that message has been there for quite a while now with no sign of any updates.

I did pick up a few interesting new images at the last Celebration in the Ralph McQuarrie room, along with the early story treatment.  I bought the small booklet they were selling covering the items on display there - the booklet is sort of an addendum to the big hardback they brought out at Celebration 4.  I still need to scan the images from the small booklet and add them to the HS website.

--SKot

Sluggo said:

Ditto.

Jedisluggo.  There's a name I haven't gone by in a pretty long while.  A pretty long while.

But you're not dead.  Not yet. 

Some of my HS covers are here at the bottom of the page.  This is how they likely got picked up for ebay.

SKot, I still have that one cover I never finished that featured that unauthorized photo you got from that one friend.  Is that vague enough?

Oh, I remember the one!  How far did you get with that?

--SKot

Just for fun:

Literally translated, it's "Stars War And Peace".  It's the Swedish (subtitled) Star Wars Holiday Special, folks!

--SKot

I like this idea.  I've collected up a number of images of dodgy covers from over the years...though unfortunately not all of them are full resolution.  When I'm at home I'll try to post some of them.

Here's a bit of trivia: the covers used for the majority of the Holiday Special DVDs sold on eBay (generally a couple of basic designs with occasional variations and alterations) were actually created by our very own JediSluggo, based on some brainstorming we did about what we thought an idea cover design would be.  We never thought they'd be so widely used for pirate profit once they got out in the wild, but I suppose it's not too surprising.  It's both flattering and disgusting at the same time.

--SKot

Video Collector said:

I'll settle for this being the KMAR version for the time being. Thanks for all your help.

I assume you mean the WMAR version?  I agree that's most likely to be the one you have, especially since it was one of the most highly distributed copies.

Does anyone know anything about the European and the Australian broadcasts? The special was obviously shot on video, so these would have to be converted to PAL for broadcast outside the US.

I do know that Australia was the only known market to show the Holiday Special multiple times, as well as showing giving it the latest broadcast!  It was shown at least twice, and likely even 3 or more times, throughout the 80s...confirmed as late as 1984.

What was the network procedure for such conversions at the time, I wonder. Did they have the ability to go directly from NTSC to PAL, or did they make a 16mm preservation and shoot a PAL version from that?

That's an extremely good question.  I've never heard of a 16mm conversion (apart from an extremely dodgy eBay auction claiming to be for a 16mm copy of the show, which turned out to be false), though it's not out of the question.  It was definitely shot on video, and the masters were stored on professional grade tape.  My best guess is that they used those masters to create a PAL or SECAM version.

If anyone has them, I'd love to take a look at them. The Swedish broadcast is so close to home (Norway) I can't believe I'd never heard of it before.

You'll be interested to know that there have even been reports of a version having been broadcast in your own country as well.  Unfortunately, we haven't turned up any hard evidence to support the claim.  Here's what I have in my notes for it:

Stjernekrigens helligdags-spesial
("Star Wars Holiday Special")
Norwegian HS differences

Aired:
- [airdate unknown, but probably around May 31, 1979 when it aired in Sweden]

Running time:
- [unknown]

Subtitles:
- [unknown]

Notes:
Information has not been verfied with hard evidence.

-----

So basically all we have is a title, and a claim that it aired there.  Can you do some research on that in Norway to see if you turn up anything?  Maybe check with the TV stations there, or see if you can find any old listings.

The Swedish version, by the way, had material edited out.  It would be interesting to find out if the Norwegian version was edited as well.

--SKot

Video Collector said:

MattMahdi said:

Video Collector said:

I also have DVDs of the KCMO and CBS.

Pardon me for asking, but... CBS?

I thought that all [US] versions were CBS. Different call letters, but all the same network.

BTW, your collection is frightening in its scope!

Okay, I believe it is the WCBS one mentioned at the Holiday Special site. That's just because it doesn't seem to have any identifiers of any kind, and there was a CBS Newsbreak in it. Do pardon my ignorance of the US networks, I'm Norwegian.

Ah...well, back then the main networks were CBS, ABC and NBC.  CBS was responsible for the Holiday Special's broadcast.  Each of the 50 states in the US (for the most part) should have had at least one local CBS station that broadcast it its region (the States are bigger than many people realize), so all of the stations that showed the Holiday Special were CBS-affiliated.  Those on the west side of the country had call letters that started with a K, and those on the east side started with a W...same thing with radio stations.  WCBS was the one for the New York area, and probably is/was the flagship station (hence the CBS in its call letters).  Most if not all of the broadcasts had a CBS newsbreak, but that (and some of the commercial slots as well) would have been specific to that local area.

The WCBS recording of the Holiday Special definitely made the rounds in the past, though every copy I've seen personally was terrible quality.  Maybe that's why: the more copies out there, the worse the degradation and the harder it is to track the original source.  It does not contain any on-screen station IDs during the program itself (it only shows during the news break), so if the commercials are missing then it's very difficult to tell which version it is.  I think there's one other version that doesn't show a station ID.

The WCBS version was the one with "Fighting the Frizzies" on it during the news break, and therefore was also the one that Matt and Trey must have had on hand when they spoofed that segment for South Park.  An amazingly obscure joke considering not only did you have to have seen the Holiday Special to get it, but you also had to have seen that *specific* version with commercials and news breaks intact!

..and my collection frightens my wife too :-)

Very impressive collection...it's good to see someone who actually has most of the iterations of the videotapes and has documented them.  I spent a while looking through all the images.  You're in good company; there are a lot of people here eager to trade information with you, myself included.

Regarding your 8mm and 16mm films, you should definitely hook up with Puggo here if you haven't already...he is able to do and has done a number of transfers to DVD from those formats for preservation.  I'm thinking of that 16mm Boba Fett commercial in particular: I'm betting it's for the large-size action figure, and it would be great to have it digitally preserved in excellent quality.

Offhand and off-topic, did you ever happen to pick up a copy of the actual film telecine of the theatrical Episode I that floated around shortly after release?  It was astounding quality for the time, and might be the best source for a true direct theatrical version.  I have half of it, but sadly never was able to get the second half.  There is also considerable interest in finding a screener or telecine of the theatrical Episode II, since that one also had changes made to it afterwards.

--SKot

Sluggo said:

MattMahdi said:

SKot said:

henryperu77 said:

http://www.fuzzymemories.tv

Is this version available too??

 That's the WBBM-TV 2 Chicago version.  I haven't added it to the list yet.

Inferring from general silence, in the community, I'm guessing that the KCCI, KCMO, and WMAR discs are are the only ones floating around in the wild.

I'd never looked closely at the WBBM files because I assumed they were 

I wish I knew more about the versions, but I don't.  I only have the KCCI and I think the KCMO versions.

I don't actually have all the versions shown on my site...yet.  And some of them I have as a poor quality .avi or .mpg file, but was able to get a passable screen shot from them.

Would be nice to have a torrent site specifically dedicated to the HS and its various versions, commercials, and related video clips.  Hmm...

--SKot