Ronster

I’ve been looking at this film again and there is an awful lot of Issues to Digest. I still have not seen this edit but I hope to soon… Heres a few observations of the TV cut sort of being Lynch Version but also the THeatrical cut not really also being the Lynch version.

The Opening Narration - Although Good seems like it should be intercut with Show don’t tell images or footage whilst the “hidden away within the rocks are a people known as the Fremen” should be spoken in the part where they land on Arrakis as in the TV Version. This gap would then potentially be filled with alternate dialogue possibly regarding the bene geserit and the guild. So the opening Narration is actually an edit which removed Irulan Naration from extended footage to lose other information from what should have been said and accompanying images.

Irulan Talking of the Red Sapho Juice and mentats should probably go in the place of the audio repeat of “It is by will alone I set my mind in motion” aboard the cable car.

As Paul Atreides is looking at the film book on Caladan once his mentors enter the room it should focus on the planet “Beneth thielax training planet of the mentats” then back to freddie Jones looking angry cut then with the audio "Know a mentat by his red stained lips. Cut back to Paul "I know Thuffer I heard you, Gurney (cut to patrick stewart from TV Version) and Yueh (cut to dean stockwell from TV version) coming down the hall. Then finally Freddie Jonnes “Those sounds could be imitated.”

It should also be noted that the TV cut seems to correctly place the Spice Harvester footage from film book on Arrakis in Pauls Room also “Weather See storms” should be accompanied by sand storm storm footage not english text. So that actually should be excised from it’s placement on Caladan But the see storms part stays on Caladan.

The final filmbook sequence for when Duke Leto visits his son Is Regarding Sandworms to complete this sequence it would be possible to lift the Audio from the TV mini series as there is a Filmbook on worms in that. and show footage of worms.

During the Guild Navigator sequence on Kaitain there is a shot from within the tank looking at the emperor but there is no gas in the tank missing special effects.

I also noted an issue with when the Navigators Tank unlock the sound of the Tank unlocking is placed over Reverend mother Mohiam rather than on the actual Tank so I’m assuming there is shots in the wrong order here.

Upon Helen Guias Mohim saying "we need to have a look at Paul Atreides on Caldan the TV version shows ships taking off reused footage but the script states shots of the Universe now here is the thing I think the shots of Space and Pauls Dream is meant to be joined together or interwoven if you like, with some editing but of note because paul’s dreams are premonition based it seems seeing Feyed and muttering “I will kill you” is too early meaning that this should have shown Chani and the Reverand mother with fire and water. Also I would put Caladan as the opening of the film no secret report then we go to Kaitain after Duke Leto talks to Paul. The only way to make this correctly play out is to start the film on Caladan then go to Kaitain for the Guild visiting the Emperor and then Pauls Dream intercut with Space and water and dream images removing the secret report within the guild as it is redundant.

When Duke Leto and Paul talk a Harkonnen flag is seen as Paul looks up rather than the green Atredies flag Lynch must have been pissed! weather this was to be Duncan leaving for Arrakis in a ship? I don’t know…But it’s really bad.

From this TV version of trip to Caladan the extended footage of Reverend mother in the chair may have been where Jessica inner monologue talking of the Test and losing her son was meant to go rather than as she has this before she knows what the reason for the vist was all about. There is also a shot of Lightning Striking at the very end of the TV version in the sky. This shot I believe to be caladan storm so when the Reverend mother exclaims “He is Here” we cut to the Lightning Strike then to the Reverend mother in the chair then Jessica opening the door. Important that Mohiam and Jessica first go to pauls room and then talk about everything else.

When Duke Leto stamps the message for the Baron with the signet ring “Herald of the change” Note that the cylinder would resemble a highliner. It is possible that the cylinder was to fade through into a highliner above Geidi prime. It feels like an obvious visual cue the TV cut has a painting of the planet.

So in Pauls Room when he has the Spice vision in the script it states Paul dead on a stone Floor… This is the vision of Feyed “I will kill you” into the hunter seeker appearing from the wall. So it seems that they messed with the premonitions too as they are not in the correct order or sequence of premonition.

Some shots of shadout mapes creeping about where meant to go before the door opens and paul saves her from the hunter seeker.

The expanded soundtrack “secrets of the fremen” is the music for when Shadoubt mapes gives the Crysknife to Jessica when she screams I feel that a shot of a worm transparent overlayed as she yells for the understanding of “The maker”

The expanded soundtrack “The Fremen” is for Jamis funeral but segways in to Liets Kynes death and his still suit being ripped apart.

When Paul and Jessica are being taken to the desert to be eaten by the worms The shots of the cliffs below as the fight on the ship ensues are missing the model of the Harkonan Ornithopter ship
When Paul get’s control of the Harkonen ship after they hit the cliff it feels like the next scene of them in the cockpit was an insert and a poor one at that. It felt like Jessica shouting “Leto he’s dead” and Paul saying “I know” could all be done via audio while we see Paul from behind struggling with the controls. Now we can join the footage of the actual crash excising all the clunky inner monologue about altitude and getting to rocks… Upon leaving the ship “This crash might bring a worm” is another insert originally it was “hurry these men will have watchers” which tallies up with Piters remark “Continue reconnaissance” So we can assume that they were hiding from other ships for a while although this is never shown. It’s unclear weather Leto.s death was meant o be aboard the Ornithopter or when they get to the safety of rock and Paul has his visions.

Mother Ramallo exclaiming the prophecy would originally be placed after the crash rather than when they first arrive at Arrakis.

Then the film sort of plays out ok from here on out somewhat so sorry for the long post on observations but it just feels like it needs putting right and actually dissecting what the substituted was and what was moved about.

The secret report within the guild was actually meant to do with the guild visiting the emperor the second time without the 3rd stage navigator and was to be not Kyle Mcglaughan voice.

There is couple more shifted footage that I can cite the emperor was to arrive on Arrakis whilst Paul takes the water of life (removing ship on the echo “we come for you”) hence bene gesserit having the nose bleeds at exactly the same time Mohiam, Alia and Jessica. Also the shot of Alia with the Crysknife is before she is taken hostage by the Sandarkar not the Fremen Victory end of the battle.

I think that is about all I figured out so far.

I just watched your edit and it was enjoyable the thing I liked the most was the music score being restored more so than any visual updates although I do think you did a good job with the look of this version it was not however the highlight. I really think the standout moments were the box music restored the gurney halleck speech music score and to also state the jamis fight was very good music restoration also.

You might be pleased that I just figured out the extended soundtrack “the betrayal / shields down” is missing music for the hunter seeker scene whilst the end part is for when the shields are down after Leto is shot.

Did a Remix on the Lynch 1984 Fan made Dune Modern Trailer 40th Anniversary… 2 minutes 49 seconds. Time Taken 12 hours. (102Mb)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/pyoudxuuhpin4r1/Dune_Trailer_Remix.mp4/file

Added lots of Sound Effects and a few edits here and there plus extra Dialogue… Hope you Like it.

jedi_bendu said:

In the novel the information that there is gas rising underneath him is all delivered through Kynes’ thoughts, and especially since Villeneuve stayed away from voiceover dialogue for characters’ thoughts, it would have been a strange death on film. Given Kynes’ religious reverence for the sandworm earlier in the movie, I thought it was a brilliantly fitting death and foreshadows the advantage the fremen have over the harkonnens in knowing the desert well.

Yeah it was handeled fairly well given “how to adapt it?”

I liked that in the 2021 version she took out the maker hooks trying to escape but I think she was swallowed by a worm with the attackers not by a spice blow /explosion Which made sense because she planted the thumper.

Kynes death is a difficult one to handle I agree in film.

I think in a sense they wanted to get it overwith in one scene.

The Spice blow that he dies above is the moment that Kynes concludes “the spice is the worm / the worm is the spice” one and the same.

This is heard while paul takes the water of life in the Lynch version and I wonder if it was at this moment we were to see that spice explosion as he sees and feels his last dying moments. Obviously the baby worms or sand trout is where the water of life comes from also.

Delirious desert collapse and then final death coupled with an explosion from underneath is a weird death scene I must admit.

jedi_bendu said:

fmalover said:

Two changes I did like were Paul’s visions of possible future where Jamis becomes his mentor in the Fremen ways and friend, it greatly improved the scene where he sheds tears for a man he barely knew.

I also really love getting to see more of Beast Rabban and the effect he has on Arrakis. Imo that’s something that’s actually skipped over a little in the novel. Rabban is just someone who we mostly only hear about, his death is passed on as simple information as well.

The introduction was one of the pleasing additions that were made… We talked about it on a thread here about how could you show how the fremen wete repressed by the harkonen. Also the sigificance of the Arrakis palm trees which were originally going to be mentioned in the Lynch version first filmbook scene. This was done justice in the villuneve version and done well. Showing the burning palm trees too. The intro in the 2021 was going to be narrated by Reverend mother Mohim but it changed to be done by chani.

The other addition I really liked was showing Selusas Secundus and the Sandarkar. That was pretty cool with the throat singing and blood letting.

@Jedi_bendu watch the spicediver redux of 1984 Dune not the theatrical or extended cut.

Still this has problems / issues but it’s currently the best extended cut on offer. It’s on youtube or internet archive I think.

Essentially you have to look past both theatrical and extended cuts of 1984 Dune. As neither feel fully complete.

The Spicediver Redux is the most complete version but it’s not thought out too well about how it might go together in a different way scene orders etc…Although it is clever how it does the filmbook scenes. Spicediver redux it’s main focus is trying to make it more like the book (both good and bad in my opinion) and it also did not restore music cues either. But it’s a very good effort… But still it can be better than that version.

It’s one of the classic butchered films that will probably never be resolved but like I said look past the theatrical and extended versions…

jedi_bendu said:

Ronster said:

it has been dumbed down and reduced to a shallower paddling pool rather than an ocean of information.

Doesn’t this happen with every novel adaptation? It’s kind of in the nature of translating a book full of information to a visual medium. Things need to be communicated visually, such as Thufir’s special/unnatural ability to recite such precise information as I mentioned. Perhaps this isn’t such a problem with the 1984 film, I haven’t watched it just yet, but I know most of the complaints say it’s overstuffed and too confusing. I think the new movie has avoided being overstuffed and just barely avoided being too confusing.

That said, although I love the new film I do think we should get a long director’s cut and/or deleted scenes. I get the feeling a lot was cut, perhaps material containing a lot of the information you thought was lacking. Duncan’s actor Jason Momoa has advocated for a director’s cut, which he suggests could be “four-to-six” hours long.

There is a few things removed that have been confirmed.

1. Duncan infiltrating Arrakis in the ship he was test flying but ejecting and skydive to surface (advance team)
2. Jessica in the botanical conservatory.
3. Gurney playing balliset

Although I would also assume scenes lost for Piter and Thuffer too the Mentat explaination.

Jessica making Love to Leto thats a big deal really let’s face it. Conception of Alia.

Some sort of explaination about folding space and that the guild navigators use the spice as in the book.

Villians short changed on the plot to oust atreides and it being piters plan although the baron claims it’s his plan. Piter as the real architect but upon his death then taking thuffer as the replacement for advice is now quite unexplainable I feel.

the traitor in the midst of arriving on Arrakis Jessica being accused although Huey does not find the message in the dead harkonen.

Over 3 hours to really do it justice given the choices of the pacing they employed people looking at one another and stuff.

The 1982 Lynch version and it’s various extended versions struggle in how to get all the information across in a streamlined way…And it’s not in the right order of sequence of scenes but if those issues were resolved it would be that bit better.

jedi_bendu said:

Ronster said:

And thats a big problem concerning the factions like the bene geserit, spacing guild and the mentats there really is no explaination about them and they get no screen time at all even the Harkonen are not really fleshed out in any particular fashion and Gurney basically does nothing too.

I’ve seen a few reactions now from newcomers saying the movie was well made, but they need to rewatch it as there was a lot of information to comprehend. Dune has always been information-dense and that’s one of the reasons why it’s been difficult to adapt. I don’t remember hearing any spoken info about the Guild or smugglers and I think leaving them out of the worldbuilding, at least for now, is an unfortunate but necessary sacrifice as even more factions to keep track of (especially if they aren’t that important to the story yet) would have exacerbated the problem of non-book readers struggling.

I liked how the Bene Gesserit and the mentats are handled however. We see Thufir’s eyes roll into his head near the start as he precisely recites information, which gives you a visual sense of the Mentat ability without having to explain it (show not tell after all), and I think we see and hear enough about the Bene Gesserit to get a sense of their organisation without it losing its mystery.

Yeah we got a slice on the benegeserit and it made sense but too much has been dropped out particularly gurney being reduced and Guild and mentats although it is there thuffer does not matter at all he is nobody piter is also nobody. Pretty bad handling and so although everyone gushes over the special effects it’s a big fat “if you don’t know you don’t miss it” so essentially it has been dumbed down and reduced to a shallower paddling pool rather than an ocean of information. It’s ok but it’s just not really like the factions don’t matter… So now in part 2 if it get’s made there is an awful lot of ground to cover more than it actually needs to cover because it basically sacrificed most of the factions motives and who these people were and how they were Spice mutated. Oh well part 2 now is much more difficult because he’s put himself into a hole which is not easy to climb out… Expectations lowered on the sequal to be honest.

fmalover said:

Ronster said:

Arrakis as I previously stated needed to be more colorful too.

That has been my biggest complaint from the start. The desaturated colour timing makes the movie look lifeless.

It could do with it for sure and that would round off the experience factor but as for the plot being better fleshed out I can only imagine there are things left out of the edit. It chose all focus on Paul & Jessica with a bit of Leto and the baron over basically none of the others having any real significance apart from Jason Mamoa (Duncan).

And thats a big problem concerning the factions like the bene geserit, spacing guild and the mentats there really is no explaination about them and they get no screen time at all even the Harkonen are not really fleshed out in any particular fashion and Gurney basically does nothing too.

It’s a very different take to not particularly explain or even show what these factions are and their purpose in the Dune Universe. In that regards it’s basically Atreides vs Harkonen with the fremen lurking in the backdrop every other faction and supporting charcter is basically sacrificed. Jessica in comparison to Lynch version comes off as an emotional wreck rather than strong and the guiding force.

I saw this yesterday and without leaving any spoilers I’ll say it’s good but the supporting characters and motives are not really fleshed out enough I’m going to say outright that Lynch’s Dune is much better in this regard.

Special effects are good, music sound costumes and cinematography solid but it’s let down by not enough investment in the characters. Arrakis as I previously stated needed to be more colorful too.

It’s a solid effort but Lynch’s Dune is somehow better handled it might take liberties with the book but it’s the better adaptation at least as far as we have got into the story thus far in comparrison.

The new film has great special effects but without the great acting of Lynch vetsion and the characters are far better developed this is though however in consideration of Lynch and extended footage.

All round though it was a good film just not blown away by it.

I just got the old dvd release of sorcerer and noticed it looked vertically stretched… So I changed the aspect to 16:9 in VLC and it looks reasonably better horizontally stretched and filling the screen.

Any after watching it this way the other night I started thinking about the flashbacks of the characters baclstories in wages of fear but putting them all in the village before the terrorist attack and the opening credits. To me it feels like this was perhaps the way it was meant to play out.

Note scanlon waking from nightmare after his story.
Conversation regarding kaseem (no future).
Victor drinking in the bar after his story.
Nico the assasin into the plane arriving.

No flash back for Marquez though…

Anyway this seemed natural placement rather than the wages of fear botch job…Obviously inserting full or mostly full versions of the flash backs would be the premise for that idea…

Well This set has turned out to be quite a disappointment. Nothing particularly motivates me in terms of bonus content thus far to buy it.

Sci Fi channel have a censored TV cut which I would really like to see for alternate shots.

The theatrical cut is available on Blu Ray but I am hearing Arrow will be releasing 4k version soon perahaps for the Annivetsary.

screams in the void said:

on the positive side ,the delay gives me time to re read the book . I just watched the Spicediver Redux edit again the other day and the first part of the first sci-fi mini series . To me ,they are like comparing apples to oranges . The Lynch film is my fave ( the spicediver redux is my go to version ) and the sci fi miniseries is more like a stage play with early cgi backdrops . Neither project really gets Baron Harkonnen right imho , both versions are over the top . The Lynch version is very maniacal cartoon villian with Lynchian weirdness and the sci -fi version even has him breaking the fourth wall at one point and they also use too many tilted camera angles for the Harkonnen scenes . I get it , they are the bad guys …but it was shot too much like the Adam West Batman series . I hope the new film makes him more menacing and serious . I have been thinking of doing my own personal edit of the Lynch film where Baron Harkonnen and his crew don’t show up until the attack on house atreides …seems like all you need to know about them is told through dialouge beforehand anyway and it would cut down on the cartonishness in my opinion ( your mileage may vary ) . I would also do away with Thufir milking the cat scene .

Yeah putting the first scene on geidi prime after the atreides are on Arrakis was what I was also thinking pushing it furthur back… And moving Leto’s inner thoughts about marrying Jessica to an earlier point perhaps on caladan.

ChernobylLiquidator86 said:

Wonder if this still under work, these are incredible ideas!

I have not done anything on it particularly but I had a flick through the extended TV version the other day and I tried to make sense of some unused music.

For the Shadout mapes scene with Lady Jessica I think the music for this scene is “The secrets of the fremen” This was meant to end with a vision of Paul being Dead. It’s definitely not for the propecy scene with fremen reverand mother as the Spicediver cut assumes.

The Jamis funeral music score I think is the Track “The Fremen” which spills over into the water cache scene but I don’t think it works with that scene tagged on musically so perhaps and I am taking a guess that the Reverand mother “Prophecy scene” may appear here between the funeral and water cache scene and then for the water cache scene to follow. Or Alternatively It’s Keynes Suit being ripped open and “Take him to his desert to die” sandwhiched between Funeral and water Cache.

The Shot of the fremen outside the palace from the costume documentary should be accompanied by chants of “Mahdi” this would come prior to thuffer Huwats explaination of the prophecy to Leto. Previoously I thoiught it was to do with the water sellers but that seems incorrect now.

Although I am quite excited for this film… It’s definitely a new take on the Dune story and although some of the special effects look great theres a part of me that looks at the Blue sky on Arrakis and thinks simple miss and could be better so I’m also expecting flaws built in to it.

I’ll go in with an open mind but I’ve gone from fairly excited to cautiously optimistic currently. I am expecting a good but flawed adaptattion like the others but It may be the best adaptation in some ways but worse in some ways than others.

Nandi said:

Fantastic ideas guys

Well The Koch Media release is actually including the Spicediver fan edit…Wow interesting.

The Arrow release only has the theatrical cut with load of swag but apparently a documentary missing that will make it on to the koch media 7 disc set.

But considering they went through the OCN It’s a damn shame they never scanned the whole lot? Or atleast the scenes we know about ot perhaps that will come at some later point or never.

While David Lynch sit’s meditating on Dune… I am confident It can be fixed and he could fix it, there are obvious bits in the wrong order like the hunter seeker scene shadout mapes coming to the door the shadow in the corridor shot is yueh before he get’s Leto. There is another thing the shot of Alia with the Cris knife in slow motion over the dead Sandakur is actually when she is abducted not the victory of the atreides…There is a preceeding shot for whence the sandakar are walking the deseart at night and suddenly act surprised then we see Alia and we learn she is captured. Audio issues from crap TV cut bad music choices.

I’d forgive him if he did the effects in CGI made to look like old models and did his vision someone pay the man!

We’ve gone through it and it can be done all that is needed is the missing scenes any Space ship shots and dream sequences is easily done in a computer. The material is there stop being so stubborn Mr.Lynch heal the wound and do it providing you get paid of course but also providing you don’t ask too much and it’s personal gratification that you do finally have final cut.

CamSMurph said:

Might I asked how the OP obtained this much information?

I looked into it and I basically listened to the commentaries for which Peter says and reveals many things about the films.

Somethings are found in video games and the special features or other documentaries. Also snippets in trailers. The FOTR script also reveals some deletions. Amongst calenders and other books.

First look new bonus features confirmed but not listed.

Baggins said:

So, do I understand good, that this year will be a lotr triology with deleted scenes? If yes, I am looking forward to see it. And I have another question, do you not know if they will make the hobbit triology with deleted scenes?

Apparently although it’s a bit confusing Jackson plans to do a documentry similar to how he did for the King Kong release but for each Lord of the rings film…Or perhaps it will be for the whole trilogy?

I’m hoping for some / all deleted scenes in there especially the lord of the rings.

I don’t know if he is planning to do the same for the hobbit?

Nothing concrete but it’s been teased. I would imagine Peter has daileys of stuff on DVD burnt off and Weta have fx shots stored and stuff.

Well heres hoping I’m holding out for the new bonus features as they are fantastic films. Should be something announced soon.

Yeah I read that article good job on it! I will look forward to seeing what comes out. Well done to all involved I wish this sort of magic happened more often.

You deserve access to many vaults of film as do many others to realise the dream.

Saying that the fellowship of the ring never had a digital grade before is nonsence the limited edition dvd with costa boates documentary had a digital grade for sure.

You will taste lambflesh! or so a kiwi told me…

I really like the sound of your edit without seeing it yet.

Have a dig through this thread particularly about structure of the opening and the big chunk of still further deleted material.

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Dune-radical-fan-edit-ideas/id/65328/page/1

If you are planning a version 2 then there is scope to go further with some structural issues and visual effects.

But if you feel done with it and happy then no problem but I think there is still more to unlock about the film I wont list them all out but let me know if you feel like doing more.

Well done!

I’d like to see this but not a member of the places but excellent job on sorting this out.

Cool 😃

It was an all day afair but I had time…

https://vimeo.com/495937271

Enjoy the restored music and footage and fixed chronological scene orders which was another bodge up because they kept fiddling about with it hopefully this takes it back to a nearly or close to perfect version all that is needed is Gil Galads death really…Of which is not available but hopefully will be next year.