RicOlie_2

TV’s Frink said:

This thread will not go the way I’m intending, so I left the title general enough to cover all the other ways it will go.

With that said, I’ll open with this - why are curse words like fuck and shit offensive? I have never understood this and I’m curious.

I just remembered one reason I’d read about for fuck and shit being offensive: after William of Normandy conquered England in 1066, the ruling class and aristocracy of England became French. English was a still a very Germanic language at that time, but eventually, the (Old) French and (Old) English of the time merged. However, though many words of Germanic origin, like fuck and shit, were not yet considered offensive, they did have a strong association to the language of the lower classes. Over time, the subjects they were associated with became taboo, and the words began to take on an offensive meaning, which grew over time.

Words of French or Latin origin, like defecate, urinate, copulate, fesces, etc. are not considered offensive because they belonged to the language of the upper classes (and eventually scientists), and were not used by the common people.

That’s part of the reason, anyway, but this isn’t the case in every language, or with every swear word.

moviefreakedmind said:

Possessed is right. Catholicism didn’t come around until at least 250 years after the death of Christ, which in itself is LONG before Russian Orthodoxy (Russia wasn’t even a country yet, let alone having any exposure to Christianity). Churches in the Bible were not united in any way other than their connection to Paul, but seemed to exist purely to serve the people in whatever Roman province they were located in.

This is highly debatable. Irenaeus, writing in c. 180, listed all the bishops of Rome (the popes) up to his time, and described and defended the Church’s hierarchy and Apostolic Tradition.

St. Ignatius, writing in the late first century, also writes about bishops, the sacraments, etc. in a way that is virtually identical to what the Church teaches now. I’ve read some of his writings, so I’m not just basing that judgement off of Wikipedia or some website.

The notion that the churches were not connected is false, as surviving letters from the first and second centuries indicate. There were churches that did not follow the same teachings as the main body of churches, but their version of Christianity was condemned as heretical by Irenaeus and other writers of the time.

EDIT: Sorry to derail your thread, Frink. I’ll post an on topic post in a minute. 😉

Yeah, nigger has a much less serious connotation here in Canada, where we were never really into the slave thing, than it seems to down south.

I would guess that it simply has to do with the fact that people who are devout followers of their religions are in the minority in many modern societies.

Being offended by swear words probably just has to do with social conditioning. “Oh my God” has a clear religious connection, meaning that those who aren’t religious wouldn’t have a problem with it, but various four letter words are connected to vulgar ideas and are perpetuated as being offensive from generation to generation. The offensive nature of the words typically wears off over time, as people become used to hearing them more and more.

Possessed said:

About curse words being offensive to Christians, neither God nor the bible dictates which words are curse words and which aren’t. People/society did. So if people/society decide they aren’t offensive anymore, why would they still be a sin?

Simply by virtue of their being offensive and often vulgar or blasphemous. They aren’t intrinsically wrong, and there’s certainly nothing wrong about having a conversation like this. There’s nothing immoral about listening to music with swear words in it, as a priest assured me once. However, it says in one of St. Paul’s letters, “Never let evil talk pass your lips; say only the good things men need to hear.” Swearing, slander, gossip, unkind criticism, verbal abuse, etc. all fall under this category. I don’t think anyone would argue that swears are good, nor would they disagree that many find them offensive.

All that being said, I don’t think swearing is a very serious sin (and isn’t always a sin), unless it is done with the intention of offending or angering someone.

Also worthy of consideration is the fact that swears are often used when angry, and are thus associated with anger, and that swears in a number of languages are also blasphemous; i.e. they are religious words used in a disrespectful way.

LuckyGungan2001 said:

I think curse words bother us because we are told they should.

That’s certainly part of it. Non-native speakers are often more comfortable using English swear words than swears in their own language, because they haven’t developed that sensitivity towards them. When I was first exposed to fuck at the late age of 10, I didn’t realize it was offensive, and I remember that I only gradually began to find it offensive.

The existence of swear words and the fact that so many people find them offensive is fascinating to me. There’s no apparent logical reason for it, except in cases where the word actually has an offensive concept associated with it.

An explanation I’ve seen, however, is that words associated with taboos can become offensive. Fuck, for instance, became offensive during a very prudish time. Shit and other words associated with using the loo are offensive because it is often considered poor taste and vulgar to talk about what one does on the toilet. Religious swears are considered offensive for fairly obvious reasons, at least for religious people.

I think that would be better than having him just say it. I find the idea of him worrying to himself about what is legal as he’s being killed much funnier than him actually asking it.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Also, I’m offended by frivolous uses of “Oh my God” and “Jesus Christ” and related phrases, so I will gladly avoid any words that offend you if you avoid those that offend me.

Having been raised entirely in a secular environment, these phrases are nearly second nature to me. However I do try to limit their use when I’m thinking about it. Feel free to point it out when I slip up and I’ll happily apologize. But only because I like you. If Dek asks me to avoid swearing I’m just going to tell him to [REDACTED] off, because I don’t like him.

If I were Dek, I might spend another ten pages trying to defend “oh my god” which is different than “oh my God.” 😉

That’s fair. I’ll bow out now, but somewhat reluctantly, as we finally seem to have gotten you up to a healthy post count. 😉

Exactly. And most people I know don’t find it offensive, so maybe it’s also a regional difference.

Also, I’m offended by frivolous uses of “Oh my God” and “Jesus Christ” and related phrases, so I will gladly avoid any words that offend you if you avoid those that offend me.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

DominicCobb said:

Frink just explained it to you. The fact that retard is interchangeable as an insult with stupid and idiot is what makes it offensive. You’re basically calling mentally retarded people stupid idiots.

The problem being that nobody I know calls them mentally retarded. It’s a dated term. Perhaps older generations, or legal documents, or people in certain regions still use it, but it is fast falling into complete disuse.

facepalm

Why are you guys bending over backwards trying to defend the use of retarded as an insult? If it’s a dated term, there’s even less reason to use it as an insult. And calling yourself “retarded” is still an insult, you’re just insulting yourself.

I don’t follow. I just find it annoying that you call out people for using the word when it’s main use nowadays is as an insult, just like “moron” and “idiot.”

I was also a little curious to find out what the difference was, and though I’m still not entirely sure why you so vehemently oppose it being used as a pejorative term, I’ll bow out. I agree that it’s a silly thing to argue about–the problem is that I enjoy arguing about silly things…

As a side note, I have seen “mental idiocy” used, so that sense of the word isn’t entirely extinct.

EDIT: And as a side note, I find it offensive when people use “autistic” as an insult.

DominicCobb said:

Frink just explained it to you. The fact that retard is interchangeable as an insult with stupid and idiot is what makes it offensive. You’re basically calling mentally retarded people stupid idiots.

The problem being that nobody I know calls them mentally retarded. It’s a dated term. Perhaps older generations, or legal documents, or people in certain regions still use it, but it is fast falling into complete disuse.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

I find it interesting how Frink has no problem with “moron,” as far as I am aware, despite its original definition being “A person of borderline intelligence in the former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50-69.”

Original definition means nothing. Times change. No one uses moron for anything but an insult anymore.

The same can be said of “retarded” in most places. “Mentally handicapped” and “special needs” are now the norm; at least in Canada.

I find it interesting how Frink has no problem with “moron,” as far as I am aware, despite its original definition being “A person of borderline intelligence in the former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50-69.”

One great thing about language learning is that your subconscious works on it while you’re asleep, so if you listen to enough French (if you can, watch French TV and listen to French radio), even if you don’t understand most of what is being said, it will help. Just be sure to supplement your Rosetta Stone learning with that sort of thing, as it is easy enough to understand simple sentences and words, but when you’re actually listening to a steady stream of French, it becomes far more challenging to pick them out. Half the challenge is just being able to recognize a word or phrase you know amidst a bunch of words you don’t understand as well.

To reiterate: don’t wait a few months before listening to people actually speaking French in some sort of media. Even if you don’t understand a word they’re saying, or it’s just in the background, it will help you in the long run. Immersion is the best way to learn a language, so the closer you can get to that, the better.

I’ll add any prayer requests in this thread to my daily prayers too. Good idea for a thread, though I don’t know how many people are likely to make serious posts in it.

I’m afraid my knowledge of French film is very limited, but I thought Les Choristes (The Chorus in English) was pretty good. It’s about a teacher who ends up at a strict boarding school, and decides to change the attitude of his students by beginning a choir, despite the strong opposition of the director of the school.

Le Pianiste is another one. It’s about a Jewish pianist during WWII who is imprisoned in a concentration camp. Beyond that, I’m not to sure, as I never had the opportunity to finish it.

La Famille Bélier is about a girl who is the only member of her family that isn’t deaf, having to translate for them from sign language to French wherever they go, and who discovers that she is a talented singer.

There’s a list here of a number of French films (“the best [French] films of all time according to viewers”).

I suggest, unless your French is already pretty good, to watch movies with the English subtitles. This allows you to pick up on what they’re saying better, and to associate English words with the French ones. Otherwise, you’ll pick out the few words that you know, but you won’t learn many new ones. And, if you can, watch dubbed or subtitled movies that you’re already familiar with.

I’m afraid I can’t remember how straightforward the language was in a lot of the above. If you want to see a good movie, you might have to compromise on that… Watching dubbed movies you’ve seen already is your best bet to begin with. I also recommend that you watch a movie more than once. You’ll pick up more and more on subsequent viewings rather than having to start with a fresh story and maybe a different accent with another film.

Feel free to throw a PM my way if you want French help or practice.

What a weird winter (although I’m guessing this is pretty normal for some of you 😄). It’s like January and February got compressed into a week or two. I don’t think it ever dropped below -30 (-22 F). The snow’s already almost gone, and it was melting throughout most of February.

“What’s The Use” by the Carpenters

I’ve got to be the only teenager who listens to them. 😄

Ticket prices are about $18 at the only theatre near my house. That’s Canadian dollars, though, so it’s probably equivalent to $8 US. 😉 (But ticket prices haven’t changed since the CD dropped so far below the value of the USD, of course.)

Handman said:

You put it so well.

Why, thank you.

I would not want to see a homosexual relationship on screen in Star Wars at least partly because it would be controversial (whether or not you think it should be). I don’t think Star Wars movies should include anything that is hugely controversal in the real world, regardless of whether it’s something I support or not. I want Star Wars to be a fun escape from reality, not a reminder of it.

Let’s say the new Star Wars movie established that the Jedi forbid transgender operations (far-fetched, I know, but it’s the principle that counts). While many people, including myself, think that changing one’s sex is wrong, I would just as disappointed that it was included as I would be if one of the characters changed genders, since it’s a controversial issue in the real world.

So, whether or not you think that gay marriage and whatnot should be controversal, the truth is that it is, and I do not want any controversial issues from the real world appearing in a movie that is supposed to be an escape from reality.

Indeed. If tickets were half the price, I’d go three times as often.

TV’s Frink said:

You first saw the OT in 1999…I feel so old.

I first saw it in 2010. 😛