RicOlie_2

“Don’t Stop Believin’” by Journey

darthrush said:

moviefreakedmind said:

The Crusades are a go-to thing to complain about.

For good reason.

Indeed, but they’re unfortunately a go-to example of “look how bad the Church is/used to be”, when really the atrocities committed during them were not approved of by the Church, and the Church was quite arguably justified in calling for them.

After listening to all three albums, I must say, there isn’t a lot of room for improvement, aside from things that are just due to the genre and that I haven’t gotten used to (like what sounds like too many layers of guitar to my ears, but I have limited exposure to that sort of thing). I noticed that “Alterations” seems to have a better balance between the drums and guitar.

I think I like The Way almost as much as Alterations. After a couple more listens, I wouldn’t be surprised if I liked it at least as much. Withering seems to have some harder metal, which I’m not as much a fan of compared to the other stuff, but I still enjoy it.

LOL! Hey, I don’t get marked on this stuff–at least my perfectionism is somewhat selective.

Better.

moviefreakedmind said:

RicOlie_2 said:

You could say I’ve worked nights if homework counts… This past year, there have been several nights during which I did homework from 4 pm to 4 am and got up at 6:30 (sometimes multiple nights in a row), plus a couple all-nighters.

I wouldn’t say homework counts. What high school gives 12 hours worth of homework?

I’m in a program that involves a much heavier workload than average. That, combined with the fact that I am an extremem perfectionist (and didn’t manage my time as well as I could have earlier in the year), equals tons of time doing homework.

I’ve been told that first year university is significantly easier than grade 11 in this program. I’ve already done a university-level research project in biology, plus a couple fairly long essays (3000 and 2000 words) in social/history. I’ve got a 4000-word one coming up next year too that I should probably research a bit before school starts. It’s nohing I can’t handle, but when I’ve got two or three projects like that to do at once, on top of work and stuff, life sucks.

But it’s mostly my perfectionism that makes things take so long, compounded with the fact that I get stuck in a perpetual cycle of sleep deprivation leading to homework taking longer leading to more sleep deprivation…

moviefreakedmind said:

RicOlie_2 said:

The Way, Withering, and Alterations, all by a certain Jacob Martin…

While I was playing them, my brother asked me how long the song was. I said two minutes, and he asked me why all the songs sounded so similar. I had to explain that I was listening to a CD, and it was because they were all the same genre, by the same artist…

I guess I’ve taken the first step to joining the old fogey’s club with the rest of you. 😄

Kids don’t know what CDs are anymore?!

He knew what a CD was, but I dont think he was familiar with the concept of an album…

You know what “literally” means, right?

Lord Haseo said:

moviefreakedmind said:
Until a group of insane Christians occupy territory the size of small countries and start flying planes into buildings, let’s stop with the ISIS comparisons.

Yes, because the Crusades…never happened

One of the main causes of the Crusades was the danger pilgrims to the Holy Land faced due in large part to its overlords at the time. Also, the Moors and whatnot were making incursions into Europe and threatening Europe as a whole. The Crusades themselves were entirely justified. A lot of the stuff that happened during them was far from it, but it’s not like mass rape and pillaging was sanctioned by the Church. Of note as well is that a sizeable percentage of the crusaders were the criminals and low-life of society, if I remember correctly from what I’ve read.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Becoming a priest, nun, or monk is a choice. Celibacy is not imposed on anyone, but those who choose it seem to get by just fine. Black people, on the other hand, do not choose to be black.

Obviously I was exaggerating for effect. But you’re exactly right, being celibate is a choice. So God creates heterosexuals and homosexuals, and he tells heterosexuals they have a choice about having sex or not having sex, and either choice is ok as long as they’re married (or not priests). He tells homosexuals they have no choice.

Sounds reasonable.

Ah, that’s what you’re getting at. A person’s vocation (whether it be marriage, the priesthood, lay celibacy, or the religious life) is pretty much predetermined by God. It is the decision of the individual to follow it or not. In the case of gays and lesbians, their vocation is celibacy. That being said, there is an obvious difference, since someone called to the priesthood can still marry (a sin if they deliberately reject their vocation) can remain married without any further sin, but the same is not true according to Catholic teaching if a gay man marries another gay man and remains married.

The idea that our lives shouldn’t be difficult and sometimes painful is not one that I subscribe to, however, and I’m afraid that while I have sympathy for people who suffer this way, I don’t think remaining celibate is the end of the world. If someone imposed celibacy on me, it would be a bummer, but I could live with it just fine. I have many fulfilling relationships that do not involve sex and never will, and I would be willing to keep it that way if that is what God wants. If I didn’t want what God wants, I wouldn’t be Catholic…

Hang on. Tell me if I’m misunderstanding you, but you’re saying that God chooses certain people to be homosexual and it’s their duty to be celibate?

If I’ve understood you correctly, I think this is a perfect example of how religion brainwashes people (who are otherwise intelligent, like yourself) into justifying hate. I know, I know, you don’t hate the sinner, you hate the sin, but this is absolute lunacy.

In addition, I’ve always found the idea that any one religion knows what God wants to be extremely arrogant (let alone completely unlikely).

It’s the duty of everyone that God calls to be celibate, whether or not they’re gay. No one’s forcing it on them, though (and I have no belief that gays don’t go to heaven if they don’t choose celibacy)… There are a lot of sacrifices that my religion demands. To quote Jesus, "Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.” I don’t view it as being an unfair demand, just a different one.

That being said, I understand perfectly why you see it as being unfair. I wouldn’t expect you to understand why sacrificing such important things for a deity makes any sense, because from an atheistic/agnostic perspective, it’s stupid. But to say that gays have an unfair restriction placed on them is also only half true.

But I’m sure you know my personal views. I don’t think any of this stuff should be imposed on anyone.

I was like -50 years old!

You could say I’ve worked nights if homework counts… This past year, there have been several nights during which I did homework from 4 pm to 4 am and got up at 6:30 (sometimes multiple nights in a row), plus a couple all-nighters.

Tyrphanax said:

Frink and I have something in common.

His wife.

Speaking of which, how did that ever happen? She must have been pretty desparate.

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Becoming a priest, nun, or monk is a choice. Celibacy is not imposed on anyone, but those who choose it seem to get by just fine. Black people, on the other hand, do not choose to be black.

Obviously I was exaggerating for effect. But you’re exactly right, being celibate is a choice. So God creates heterosexuals and homosexuals, and he tells heterosexuals they have a choice about having sex or not having sex, and either choice is ok as long as they’re married (or not priests). He tells homosexuals they have no choice.

Sounds reasonable.

Ah, that’s what you’re getting at. A person’s vocation (whether it be marriage, the priesthood, lay celibacy, or the religious life) is pretty much predetermined by God. It is the decision of the individual to follow it or not. In the case of gays and lesbians, their vocation is celibacy. That being said, there is an obvious difference, since someone called to the priesthood can still marry (a sin if they deliberately reject their vocation) can remain married without any further sin, but the same is not true according to Catholic teaching if a gay man marries another gay man and remains married.

The idea that our lives shouldn’t be difficult and sometimes painful is not one that I subscribe to, however, and I’m afraid that while I have sympathy for people who suffer this way, I don’t think remaining celibate is the end of the world. If someone imposed celibacy on me, it would be a bummer, but I could live with it just fine. I have many fulfilling relationships that do not involve sex and never will, and I would be willing to keep it that way if that is what God wants. If I didn’t want what God wants, I wouldn’t be Catholic…

The Way, Withering, and Alterations, all by a certain Jacob Martin…

While I was playing them, my brother asked me how long the song was. I said two minutes, and he asked me why all the songs sounded so similar. I had to explain that I was listening to a CD, and it was because they were all the same genre, by the same artist…

I guess I’ve taken the first step to joining the old fogey’s club with the rest of you. 😄

Darth Id said:

Lord Haseo said:

Jeebus said:

What do you consider to be a meager existence?

…I’m 21 years old and am merely a construction worker but I aspire to make some type of impact. I don’t know how I’ll do it but if I don’t my life will have been of no consequence.

You mean…other than the buildings you helped build that will remain standing after you’re gone.

Hey, Darth Id said something kind of nice! Why don’t you make more posts like this?

TV’s Frink said:

RicOlie_2 said:

Why should the helpless fetus/embryo have even its chance to have a life taken from it?

Because it’s just a potential person at the beginning. And it doesn’t know any better, it won’t miss out on anything, etc.

It’s easy to say “what if I was aborted!” but it’s a false argument.

Fair enough, though I disagree on it being just a potential person. I don’t see how it’s significantly different than euthanizing a baby because a situation has changed and one can no longer support the child. Granted, the cases in which this would happen are rare, but that’s illegal, while abortions at 40 weeks are not (where I live anyway). I know you don’t support late-term abortions, but my question is, I guess, why a baby is more than just a potential person.

Lord Haseo said:

moviefreakedmind said:

yhwx said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Lord Haseo said:

With adoption a person can be put in a toxic environment in which they can be abused. Furthermore they can have feelings of inadequacy and abandonment.

Life’s a bitch.

Huh. So you got sexually harassed at work today. Welp, can’t do anything about that. Life’s a bitch.

Using “they might have it rough” as an excuse for abortion isn’t legitimate to me. Essentially, it is saying that there isn’t anything you can do. Just terminate it.

I’m sure there are a lot of people who would prefer death over living life with the cards they have been dealt. Further more in my point of view non existence is preferable to a meager one. But that’s pretty much a completely separate topic.

Is it fair to make that decision for them? I know a lot of people who have lived through serious difficulties and are happy to be alive. Some people have lived miserable lives for the first 20 years of their lives, but decent and even good lives after that.

moviefreakedmind said:

Let’s say we make an exception for that. What about abortions that are for the sake of not wanting a child?

Again, my answer depends on the circumstances. Circumstances such as a condom ripping, the birth control is inept and a guy either forcibly or secretly nutting inside of a girl warrants an abortion if that is the woman’s desire.

This site references a survey that reports 17% of women who had abortions as having stated it was because contraception failed (I’m not sure exactly how reliable the survey was, but I’ve heard similar numbers before):

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

If that is indeed the case, and even if it’s just something like 6% of women aborting their pregnancy for that reason, does it not seem safer just to abstain from sex if one absolutely cannot have a child?

TV’s Frink said:

That’s funny you think I used a non-credible source, because the Salon article links directly to the same jama paper you linked to. First sentence in the “Conclusion” section:

Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester.

My bad, then. When I saw what site I was on, I only skimmed the article.

I’m sure you’ll consider NPR a biased source as well, but you might want to read up a little on “partial-birth abortions” (politically charged term btw) to see how often they’re done. (granted this is 10 years old but I’d be surprised if the percentages have changed much)

http://www.npr.org/2006/02/21/5168163/partial-birth-abortion-separating-fact-from-spin

According to the Alan Guttmacher Institute, an abortion-rights research group that conducts surveys of the nation’s abortion doctors, about 15,000 abortions were performed in the year 2000 on women 20 weeks or more along in their pregnancies; the vast majority were between the 20th and 24th week. Of those, only about 2,200 D&X abortions were performed, or about 0.2 percent of the 1.3 million abortions believed to be performed that year.

And contrary to the claims of some abortion opponents, most such abortions do not take place in the third trimester of pregnancy, or after fetal “viability.” Indeed, when some members of Congress tried to amend the bill to ban only those procedures that take place after viability, abortion opponents complained that would leave most of the procedures legal.

2,200 partial-birth abortions per year and 15,000 late-term abortions is still a lot. I didn’t mean to imply that I thought they were common, though I did think the numbers were a bit higher for third trimester and partial birth abortions (I thought it was something closer to 5% for the former and just a bit less for the latter).

By the way, look how fewer abortions are occurring. This is great news…no one want abortions. I just want the option available.

I wouldn’t say no one–I’ve encountered people who advocate them as a form of population control–but it is indeed great news. One thing we need to do more of is fix the underlying problems that lead to abortions, and hopefully the decreased numbers are a sign that progress is being made in those areas.

Lord Haseo said:

RicOlie_2 said:
What does fully developed mean? The frontal lobe does not fully develop until one’s late twenties. Are people not people before then?

Yeah, I probably used the term “fully developed” wrong. What I mean is human that is fully (or close to it) developed in the womb and is ready (or close to it) to life

What do you mean by “life”? A fetus is objectively alive.

Who decides why a line should be drawn between various trimesters, and not, say, at conception, when a unique genetic code is created?

Because there are a great many developments that happen post conception that actually makes the fetus more than just semi living genetic code. So to speak.

If development is continuous, where can a line be drawn? And who decides what developments make the embryo/fetus/baby more than a “semi-living genetic code”?

Why should the helpless fetus/embryo have even its chance to have a life taken from it? Adoption is also a possibility, though I admit that it is not that simple.

With adoption a person can be put in a toxic environment in which they can be abused. Furthermore they can have feelings of inadequacy and abandonment.

I don’t think that argument holds much water. This sort of thing doesn’t just happen in adoption, and all the people I have met who were adopted were given as much love as care as if they were being raised by their own parents (assuming they wanted the child). It’s a much better deal than being killed in the womb, in my limited experience.

And again why should a woman lose more control over her body? It’s as if she’s being punished for being raped. How I see it it’s pretty much telling her “I know you’ve been through a traumatic event and all but deal with it for the sake of the unborn baby you did not ask for”

This argument isn’t a bad one when the pregnancy is terminated early on. Whether the woman likes it or not, however, the embryo/fetus is a separate human being from herself, and I don’t believe it should be her choice to end its life. My argument is founded largely on the concept that every human life has equal value, regardless of what stage or condition it is in, and that only God can make the decision to end a life. If you don’t agree on that point, we have to agree to disagree.

Regardless, less than 1% of abortions are due to rape, so it is a relatively minor issue compared to “convenience” abortions, or those which occur due to the mother’s unreadiness, or lack of desire to have a child.

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/abreasons.html

Jeebus said:

Went to bed at 3 in the afternoon yesterday, woke up now at 9 in the morning. Never felt so disoriented in my life. I hate being sick.

And I went to bed at 4 in the morning and woke up at 3:45… I’ve never slept in so long before, even when I’ve gone to bed at 5 and didn’t set my alarm clock. 😛

It certainly isn’t easy being celibate and virgin, but it is possible. Hopefully people will feel more comfortable being open about their sexuality, now that it is becoming less stigmatized, and avoid feeling they have to sign up for the religious life to escape the pressure to marry.

LOL

That’s one way of developing a phobia of dolls.

moviefreakedmind said:

You missed an uncomfortable discussion about the legitimacy of Roman Catholicism in the Politics thread.

Alas… We could revive it if you want. 😉

Tyrphanax said:

Hey, it’s Ric2!

I’ve been lurking a bit for the past few weeks, but I finally have time to post regularly. June was a bit of a whirlwind, but things have begun to wind down. It’s good to be back. 😃