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RU.08

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5-May-2011
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9-Sep-2025
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Post
#776201
Topic
team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (Released)
Time

ScruffyNerfHerder said:


I haven't seen the preview but I'd just like to echo Jan's suggestion. CRF mode is designed specifically to be fast, efficient and high quality. If you're not aware of it, basically you set a quality level, with lower numbers being better, and CRF determines the lowest bitrate that can achieve that quality. Talking heads? Low bitrate. Explosions in the middle of a hurricane? High bitrate. It happens automatically and quickly, with only one pass. I've had great luck with it. 

Keep up the great work! :)

CRF is not constant bitrate. I didn't see the preview, and I agree with you about CRF. :)

Post
#776199
Topic
Star Wars GOUT in HD using super resolution algorithm (* unfinished project *)
Time

NP. There's really nothing that can be done about it when working with a source that has DVNR. DrDre's script does improve the quality of the source, but it can't remove that. Someone with more technical knowledge than I could tell you if the DVNR is applied directly from the T/C machine or if it was added by a secondary process, but either way it's in the source. For some of the movie it doesn't create considerable problems, but in some scenes it creates considerable drawbacks. For a 1993 T/C it's not all bad, it probably wasn't cutting edge, but it was what it was. :)

Today we want better, of course. Even the 2004 DVD was made in a T/C and not a film scanner as I've mentioned elsewhere. DrDre's work, however, is very valuable. It's given me a way to improve my own upscale of the SD elements in The Phantom Menace.

Post
#776183
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

Since there's interest growing in this, here's my alignment/clean-up script. I'm currently re-working the upscale aspect of the script, but this is the basis that underpins it, and I haven't altered it since last year (and probably won't). You need to crop the right-hand side of the final product. I use that script to create uncompressed AVI files of the scenes I need, and then load the scenes into the upscale script.

Also, I have worked out how to handle the bridge scene. Labour-intensive, but it will work. :)

Post
#775809
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

Well even the link you provided listed changes to the DVD version, as well as further changes to the 2011 BD/3D version.

And yes, unfortunately the subtitles will not be absolutely perfect. Their vertical placement is consistent in all but one scene (a close-up of Sebulba saying "you slave scum", and their horizontal placement is consistently centred. Since the DVD/HDTV version is not cropped exactly the same, the subtitles are not in the exact position they would have been in originally. I will be making sure they are as close to right as they can be when averaged across the 27 of them (and the Sebulba one will be lower as is theatrically correct).

Post
#775368
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

Behodar said:

Apparently only the Blu-ray was changed. As you were :)

I listed the differences from theatrical to dvd here. Note that's the first post on page 2 so I'm surprised you missed it!

nightstalkerpoet said:


Any ETA on this? Really excited to see your final results. :)

It depends what I can do with the shot you see above. Superimposing the images would require a moving mask which is a time consuming process to construct.

clutchins said:


Also, Valeyard, "Theatrical Preservation" is incorrect terminology since you're not preserving anything in particular. What you're doing is a reconstruction of the Theatrical version.

All the SW Trilogy scans done by poita, team -1 and mikev are using multiple sources. There are three versions of the theatrical on the spleen as it is - LD, TB and Z. Adywan's "reconstruction" didn't correct the scene above, but if you like it's the 4th on there. It's easily possible to reconstruct the theatrical cut using just the Jap LD and the HDTV - taking scenes from each and arrange them into the correct order. My final cut will use the DVD and the TB as well - the TB proved very valuable in correcting the chroma in particular. So far I haven't changed anything, thus it's still a preservation. It's the the ultimate preservation by any means - someone with access to a theatrical print can scan it and make one that uses the print. Someone else may simply do what I'm doing except use the Bluray as well (I'm not using it because I don't want to, and I don't think it is representative of how the film looked in theatres). Preservations don't always fit into a particular concise definition, and the boundaries to reconstructions can be blurred.

Post
#775367
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

Okay so the "bridge" scene. I've been dreading this. I'm not entirely sure yet how I'll handle it. First here's the cleaned LD:

http://i.imgur.com/pGda7Jd.jpg

And this is the DVD - cleaned and resized.

http://i.imgur.com/9ydvomM.jpg

Even the DVD as you can clearly see has a huge difference in quality - let alone the HDTV! I have no doubt the entire frame was re-rendered from the CGI model with the changes on the left of the frame.

Laserdisc:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/130781

And HDTV:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/130784

And I'll enhance them so the difference is clear (fullr resolution):

http://i.imgur.com/mMI1sMZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/l0Vp4TO.jpg

In the worst case scenario I'll have to use the whole LD frame. However, I'm hoping that softening and darkening the HDTV image will allow me to superimpose the two together.

Post
#775166
Topic
Star Wars GOUT in HD using super resolution algorithm (* unfinished project *)
Time

camroncamera said:


The GOUT image... It's like the original telecine process was transfered at 16:9 anamorphic and was converted to 4:3 letterbox at the mastering stage (and caused all of that awful aliasing) by throwing out every other scanline like yesterday's bagels. 

I don't know how, but I believe you found all those scanlines that they tossed away, then rolled them in sesame seeds, added the most amazing cream cheese, homestyle berry preserves, smoky lox and toasted it all so that is 9 times better than when the bagels were fresh to begin with. That's how good this work is.

Truth is, I don't even know if 16:9 anamorphic standard definition video was even used during the (pre-DVD) Laserdisc era for feature film transfers, so I don't believe that those "missing scanlines" of the GOUT were ever even in any video signal from the telecine machine on down the video chain. I know HD video had been in development for several years at the time of those film transfers, but pretty much as R&D only.

Still, in the back of my mind, I wonder if there might be a 16:9 anamorphic D-1 tape straight from the Star Wars telecine session floating around. If a very early scan converter was used to convert this (hypothetical)16:9 anamorphic film transfer to 4:3 letterbox format, and that subsequent 4:3 tape was used as the Laserdisc master, that could explain the heavy aliasing of the GOUT. If Lucasfilm returned to these scan-converted transfer tapes to produce the 2006 bonus DVDs (erroneously believing them to be the best existing transfers of the Original Trilogy), they had missed the opportunity to use these hypothetical anamorphic original transfer tapes instead.

No, the aliasing is just a side-effect of the telecine process. One field is scanned, then the other, the data is written straight to videotape and the process is repeated until the film is done. If the odd and even lines are slightly misaligned then you get aliasing.

Post
#774950
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

While some aspects of the Bluray's picture are better, overall it is over-sharpened and the cropping is wrong. Note that because it was converted to 3D, all the previously out-of-focus elements in the picture are often brought into focus where-ever possible so that the viewer can explore the depth of the movie. Here are some examples (bluray top, hdtv middle and z-vcd bot):

http://i.imgur.com/yFDUZL0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/uQGJbnb.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/cH8Jxwv.jpg
In this shot the bluray cropping is closer to the theatrical version.

http://i.imgur.com/vVMIQT0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/g9MXevK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/TCSQD7n.jpg
But in this shot (and most others) the hdtv cropping is closer to the theatrical version.

Post
#774949
Topic
team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (Released)
Time

team_negative1 said:

As one more preview, here's an update on the newer Intro, and part of the flyover:

===============================

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k4umJBQE9NOTk4buu03

Team Negative1

Yeah just as I had suspected, the text has a matte-line (although interesting only on the top and bottom of the text and not the sides). The matte-line gets thinner as the text gets thinner (seems to be in direct relation to the size of the text as it recedes). This is unique to the first movie, as Empire Strikes back has the stars marking contact with and clearly overlapping the text on all sides without any matte lines. Thanks for finally providing a theatrically-correct HD version!

Post
#774797
Topic
TPM 1080p Theatrical Preservation (a WIP)
Time

Okay, so I've completed the subtitle removal today. There are 28 subtitles in the film, and removing them was time consuming. I used individual masks for each subtitle rather than creating one big mask that would work for all 28. Now I'm just double-checking I haven't made any errors in the frame codes. You can see the sample image I posted back here. Here's the code for it, as you can see it's one big sequential manual-labour effort.

To remove the subtitles I had to de-grain those frames. So, once I've finished checking them I'll use grainfactory to restore the correct grain level for the frames where subtitles were removed. Then all that's left to do is to put in the theatrically-correct subtitles using the Z-VCD theatrical bootleg as a guide for the timing and placement. They'll be burned-in as requested.

Post
#774678
Topic
Star Wars Ring Theory
Time

I think Lucas was influenced by the Godfather films. The original two films have a pretty rigid ring structure that sees the story come full circle. Both films have a clear midpoint - and the first would have had an intermission after Michael carries out the dinner shooting. The themes are patterned and run in parallel: Vito and Michael both begin their entry into the Mafia with the shooting of two people that they perceive as a threat to their families, and also as an act of revenge.

They both have a false-empire and a false-benevolence (and note there are clear differences to both of these under each don). Both are ultimately responsible for the deaths of their own family members - Vito by allowing Sonny to be Don which in turn sees him fall victim to a trap set up through Connie's husband Carlo. Carlo could have been stopped any time by the Don, but Vito didn't intervene in the mistreatment levelled against his daughter, which in turn compelled Sonny to intervene. Later on in the second film, Fredo is involved in setting up Michael for entrapment. Ultimately Michael has his assassin kill him.

The traps in the films also come full circle. At the start of the second film, Senator Pat Geary attempts to extort Michel over a gaming license. Later on the film Michael's assassin kills a prostitute he is sleeping with while in a hotel/brothel run by the family. Geary falls for the deception, and is later shown showing support for the family for the remainder of the film.

Similarly, Hyman Roth devises an elaborate trap for Michael. He orders the Rosato brothers (who work for him) to carry out a fake assassination attempt against Pentangeli (who works for Michael). The Rosato's tell him they are acting on behalf of Michael - and their bluff works in turning Pentangeli against Michael. Just as Geary fell for Michael's deception, Pentangeli falls for Roth's deception. Both assassination were a lie - one a false assassination, the other a misattributed one.

Vengeance, Deception, and Betrayal all come full circle also. The whole story arch of the Godfather Pt 2 revolves around Roth attempting to take revenge against Michael for killing Greene. The story of the first film sees Michael carry out revenge against Sollozzo for the attempt on Vito's life, and against Barzini for the death of Sonny.

Deceit and Betrayal are prominent themes - following Sonny's assassination Vito calls a meeting of the families, claiming he wants to end the bitter war between them. In reality he wants to learn who is really responsible for Sonny's death, and he wants to arrange for Michel to come home. He learns that it is Barzini, not the Tattaglia family,that ordered the hit. He then stands up and assures the other dons by 'swearing on the souls of his grandchildren' that he will not break the peace, all the while knowing that he is lying. That he really intends to bide his time to take revenge against Barzini. The foreshadowing of this is when Michael is made Don his first act is to remove Hagen as consigliere because he needs a wartime consigliere. Vito then explicitly tells Hagen this was at his request.

Vito knows that the Barzinis will attempt to preempt a move against them by taking out a hit on Michael, thus preventing the family from taking their revenge. Vito foretells that a traitor will come to Michael with plans for a meeting with Barzini. Prepared for this, when Tessio comes to Michael he uses his own trap against him.

In Part II the story comes full circle. Although Michael fends off Roth's elaborate plan for his demise, he himself destroys the family that he is supposedly protecting from Roth. In the same way that Vito had defended the family against Barzini and other threats, but had ultimately caused the harm to his family though his own actions.

It breaks down to the next level also, Vito kills Don Fanucci to free Italian-Americans from his oppression, but then becomes the source of the oppression himself. This is then exemplified when Michael becomes don, for instance when he wants to take back what the family had given to Greene.

I have a feeling that Lucas envied this storytelling and tried to replicate it with the Star Wars films. Ultimately though he failed where Coppola succeeded.

Post
#773269
Topic
Star Wars Ring Theory
Time

DrDre said:

How about the fact that at the start of TPM it is established that Jedi have super speed, when they escape from the Destroyer droids, but Obi-Wan seems to have lost this ability when his master's life is on the line. This is a clear example of sloppy writing.

Supposedly the force-speed is force/energy intensive and requires substantial recovery time. Although how anyone's supposed to work that out for themselves just from the movie is beyond me.

Post
#773100
Topic
Star Wars Ring Theory
Time

Well the ring theory does explain the film structures, it doesn't explain though the poor film making. In Ep I the main character, Anakin, isn't even introduced until 30 minutes into the film. Padme's identity as the Queen is kept a secret from the audience - so she isn't even introduced until 30 minutes in either. Qui-Gon, a trained Jedi Knight, rushes in to fight Maul without waiting for Obi-Wan. Portman was quite flat at times, for instance in Padme's plea to the Gungans - there's no emotion or sincerity in her voice. In her speech in fact her voice changes tone for no apparent reason whatsoever - something that would have been easily fixed back at the studio during re-dubbing.

Post
#773053
Topic
team negative1 - star wars 1977 - 35mm theatrical version (Released)
Time

Thanks for posting that video. Lowy mentioned they used camera negatives where available for Bond also - like Robocop 4k. Dr. No looked great, but some of the other Bonds didn't look as good (riddled with DVNR), which I think is a shame. If it's true the budget was $300,000 to restore the whole lot perhaps Lowy had to rush some of the films without putting in the hours of labour they deserved.