Sorry currently a few things going on and bit behind on messages, will get back to you shortly.
You can animate a silhouette, it’s just another abstraction of form. If you can animate a stick figure, a distorted long late-afternoon shadow, or amorphous shapes like the pink elephant sequence in Dumbo, you can animate a silhouette. There’s some stylized clean solid black silhouettes in the opening of Batman the animated series.
Okay let me try to restate it, with Disney animation most characters (including Beast) have one animator that does that character. When they animate Disney cells they are told to follow the contours and movements of live-action reference shots they’re given, not to invent the animation themselves. Many shots even got reused in several Disney animations for example the ballroom dance is a shot reused from Sleeping Beauty. There’s nothing in that process that allows an animator to ever animate a silhouette as a black shadow. Also the animators were not the ones in creative control, it’s a lot easier to get your animator to draw the figure first and then alter its appearance as necessary for the final film. So what the animator for Beast intended and what the director intended for those early Beast scenes could be different.
Just commenting that I’m surprised that the original intended version (that I agree should be distributed as is) looks strange to me. It’s a weird fall-off, a separate aspect from how dark the film is. Something can be dark and not have a such a steep notch in a very specific area of the contrast curve. I don’t doubt that it’s intentional.
If you like the film I suggest arranging to see it on film some time if you can.
So was the decision to show him totally in silhouette made after the sequence had been colored? I don’t know a whole lot about the animation process, but I’ve seen cels of silhouettes that are painted totally dark before they were printed to film. Seems like kind of an odd decision to achieve a silhouette by fully rendering the figure on every level, including all the different colors between his cloak and fur, and then just print it darker so you can’t see any of that labor. That seems like an extremely wasteful and backwards way to achieve such an effect.
Well it seems logical to me - you can’t animate a silhouette. You animate the character and then turn him into silhouette. Also, I’ve actually seen this movie projected in a cinema, and that’s exactly how I remember it.
And it’s 100% intentional. Don’t forget they showed the work in progress version in New York in 1991, 2 months ahead of the full release.
To my taste, I’d probably want a grade that’s a compromise. I feel like the home releases are too bright and this print is too dark (for me, not as a preservation). The line-work in Belle’s hair, at times, is crushed to black.
Her hair often appears black on film, that’s just how it is.
That’s a very expensive print…
Doctor M said:
I’m more curious what the point is than the sketchy payment plan.
Mulan was created on a digital system and digital releases are directly transferred from that. A transfer from film adds more copying steps between the source and the final release.
Simple. To preserve how it looks on film.
You are right but, maybe they (we) want to watch the film the way it was projected in theaters when it premiered, that was a 35mm print from the digital CAPS source.
Prints are not made from the CAPS source. There is a digital film-out to negative, and prints are struck either from that negative or from a duplicate.
Link updated. Merry X-Mas!
It’s good to know we’ll be in safe hands with SilverWook and Anchorhead.
Quick answer to a question I was sent: no I’m not taking any further donations on this project. BUT I am taking donations towards Cinderella, Pinocchio, and Alien!
Also, here is the BatB trailer. I’ll do a proper encode later, but at least it’s a start - and very big thanks go to the collector that loaned it to me for scanning:
It can be shared to anyone that wants it. As far as I know the first time this trailer is available anywhere in HD.
If you’re serious about it and want to buy the print I can get you a quote on scanning.
It’s a private project I think.
Oh yes you would not be disappointed with condition that’s for sure.
Could I get a link to the fanres forum? I’m having an issue finding it. Thanks! Great work!
There’s no 35mm thread on Fanres, we’re not allowed to have 35mm project threads there. He just means members of that forum.
We have access to two prints of Mary Poppins through our US scanner, both of which should be in excellent condition. But I would suggest checking the Bluray first before committing stupid money to scanning it as I hear the bluray is very good.
As I said, I think you need a better way to deal with criticism. We all get criticism, me, poita, everyone. But you’re manufacturing your own misadventure with the way you are currently dealing with yours. I’m trying to help, I’m not insulting you at all am I? Just please think about working on a better strategy that’s all I’m asking. Respect goes both ways - you get as much as you give.
Charles Threepio said:
I don’t need your help, I’m just… FRUSTRATED by the pressures being pressed on me both inside and outside the fan restoration community at the same freaking time. If I’m being a passhole aggresshole, as a certain misandrist cult in the Pretty Cure fandom likes to put it, it’s precisely because I let those pressures get to me and flipped out as a result.
All you’re doing is directly insulting and disrespecting my friends, including some who defended you for months. They were happy to accommodate you there, the only thing the admins wanted is that you don’t spam the forum with dozens of vapourware threads. Surely that’s not unreasonable on their part. Compromising is part of the normal human experience, but most people don’t get all irate about a compromise they’re unhappy with. Your comparison to Mozart is interesting, but he never announced a bunch of symphonies that would take him 2,500 months to complete. Do you think people would have taken him seriously if he did?
If you want to insult my friends and behave in an indignant way, that’s fine by me. They’re big boys I doubt any of them care. But you are not doing yourself any favours with your self-indulgent malarkey. What you should be doing, in my humble opinion, is working on a way to better handle criticism. Because at the moment it’s a total disaster whenever you encounter it. Your current strategy of escalation and aggression is just not working well for you. This is a discussion forum - if you want to discuss your ideas with people to flesh them out that’s great.
And frankly, those announcement threads you mention are simply a repository for my ideas, I don’t know if or when I’ll be doing all of them, but I know one thing for certain: that you can expect me to have AFOD ready by its 55th anniversary this September.
They’re your threads. You put your “ideas” under the headings “Planned projects”. If they’re not really planned projects but just ideas, then why not put them under the heading “Project ideas”? And above that you have the headings “Projects in progress” and above that the headings “Released projects”. How is anyone supposed to work out that your “planned projects” are just “ideas” when you’ve gone out of your way to make it look like they are all going to move up the ladder to completion?
You have so far announced 278 “Planned projects” here on OT. If this first project - AFOD - will take you 9 months, which is by no means an unrealistic timetable, then I’d say there’s pretty little chance for most of your other 277 projects to ever get done. If they ever do most of us will be long dead. Which sounds a bit selfish, so I should say I’d be happy for our descendants in 8 or 9 generations time to enjoy them, it’s just I don’t know why they all need to be announced now so far in advance of eventual completion.
Mate please don’t be passive-aggressive. Fanres is an official sister-forum to OT. Sure do things on your own timeline - as I myself do - but by announcing 180+ “planned projects” all at once you are surely provoking people’s patience aren’t you? If you want to do things in your own time I’d suggest don’t announce almost 200 projects you plan to complete. I don’t know anyone that completed that many projects. I’d suggest you jettison the announcement threads of all your planned projects and just take it one at a time.
No one is trying to prove you right or wrong, you’re your own man.
That’s true. Also, if you haven’t seen this film on 35mm or 70mm you may not be able to tell that the Bluray is a different presentation entirely.
SB is scanned, Fantasia Kostal has some delays but is mostly done. Anyone can still donate to these, donations haven’t come close to paying for these ones. 😃
Yes, that print had a Buena Vista logo not a RKO logo (I think it’s a 70’s re-print).
Just a reminder to everyone this is a VERY long way to being paid for right now, any help will be very much appreciated!
Charles Threepio said:
Apparently, Fanres.com is too damn bigoted against people like me with brains so big they don’t know what to do with them, so I’ve given up on them.
Oh no, please don’t bring this nonsense here. Your threads were removed for good reason. 2 Years of spamming vaporware projects with nothing to show for it.
These KTP collections are so absurdly broad and ambitions but with zero details of what you plan to do or how to do it. We don’t need these here.
+1 to that.
Some previews are now available to donors, I think I’ve contacted everyone - but if I haven’t shoot me a message.
I’ve gone over our scan, for the most part it looks good. We need to do some re-scans, but it’s only 1 reel that is problematic. Overall the print is very clean, and also very good condition with little damage. I’ll be sending out some previews to donors shortly.
I am excited to announce that this project will be utilising two prints. Here is a sample from the other print with some rough colour correction:
And here’s the above screenshot with a very quick regrade to match:
Both prints are very badly faded. But we have quite a bit of latitude with the colour as you see, and the aim is to recover the original colour grading.
I’m not suggesting the above scene is supposed to look blue like the grading above. I don’t know myself yet whether it is supposed to be green or blue. Grading the film accurately without any un-faded film to compare against is nearly impossible - but good news! We have scanned some unfaded footage of Alien too, and it has been graded to projection accurate, so we should be able to fully recover the correct grading of the entire film without having to “guess” whether certain scenes should look “more blue” or “more green”.
All in all a lot of work is going into this project. But right now we need to pay for our scan, so if anyone would like to help with donations please get in contact. We’ll be working out some samples to share with donors soon as well.
Scan (at 4K):
Graded to projection: