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Post Praetorian

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15-Dec-2013
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2-Mar-2019
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Post
#895111
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

TavorX said:

Post Praetorian said:
So essentially Rey was initially trained in the force at a young age…said training remained dormant…but her bare and meager existence upon a treacherous world allowed her implicit training in its usage during her intervening years awaiting the return of her family…?

It is a possibility…indeed a potentially plausible explanation…although I suspect it not to have been at all officially considered. Still, it bears pondering…

I currently sit on the fence when it comes to the theory that Rey was previously trained at a young age. I certainly think it’s a solid theory, but if it’s not the case, that would be fine too imo.

Still, living all those years in isolation, where the only person that matters is you, you tend to discover a lot more about yourself. What makes you angry, frustrated, depressed, happy, enlightened, motivated, etc and how to deal with it. Now, I’m not saying her time in isolation was her training in the Force. What I am saying is that she developed key traits of a Jedi should embrace, such as I mentioned, patience.

It does stand to reason when put in such a way…something akin to the inner training of the hermit combined with the rough and tumble scrabble for survival of a Spartan…

Yet her lack of seizing an apparent windfall in the potential sale of the droid is odd under such conditions. I wonder what could possibly have motivated her to resist the offer…suspicion that it was worth far more perhaps?

Post
#894855
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Smoking Lizard said:

TV’s Frink said:
For most of these situations there are many plausible explanations (see the lightsaber on Cloud City discussion),

Indeed. Because it is entirely plausible that Luke’s lightsaber fell down the main shaft at Bespin; got sucked into one of those, what, dozens of exhaust ducts; got caught up somehow, thereby preventing it from falling out and down to the fiery surface of the gas giant; was then found by someone or some thing in the duct (or wherever the duct may dump out or collect); recognized by that someone or some thing as something worth not throwing in the junk pile; then taken to – out of literally millions of planets in the galaxy – Maz Kanata, where she put it neatly in a box. In a box, to be given, someday, to someone, whom she met literally 10 or 15 minutes earlier.

Indeed, that is, in your words, an entirely “plausible explanation.”

I will allow it is possible that the lightsaber was not destroyed, but it is much more difficult to concede that it was delivered to Maz, who merely relegated it to an unlocked box in her storage room, from which she later intuitively knew it to be calling to Rey and so made of it a gift without question…

Post
#894846
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

TavorX said:

There’s something I find interesting about Rey. Due to the environment she grew up in, it just adds more to why she’s so great with the Force. When comparing to Luke’s beginnings, Luke has this impatient vibe and a little bratty. Now, hold your horses here, I actually find Luke relatable; being stuck with family and wanting to be somewhere away from home. So again, I have no issue with Luke here, just making this clear for what about I’m about to say.

Rey is basically a toughened up person by the time we meet her. She also exercises key Jedi traits, such as patience, something Luke struggled with for the first two films. Unlike Luke, Rey had no home to come to with someone that cared about her. She didn’t live on a farm where food tends to be plentiful. She instead spent so many years scavenging for a living in order to survive. She stayed on Jakku out of choice because she willingly wanted to wait for her parents to come back, even though day by day (and she literally counted those days as we see in the film), it was unlikely to ever happen.

This is why I’m not really all that disappointed that she had a more tuned relationship with the Force once she understood it IS real. She was able to calm her mind (something Yoda insisted Luke should do) when the time came and it was believable to me due to her upbringing. I’m not saying by any stretch that Luke had a rich and easy life, but in comparison, Luke was living in comfort on Tatooine vs the battle scarred graveyard planet of Jakku.

So essentially Rey was initially trained in the force at a young age…said training remained dormant…but her bare and meager existence upon a treacherous world allowed her implicit training in its usage during her intervening years awaiting the return of her family…?

It is a possibility…indeed a potentially plausible explanation…although I suspect it not to have been at all officially considered. Still, it bears pondering…

Post
#894829
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

kylechu said:

Post Praetorian said:
Is this not possibly due in large part to the fact that the Terminator franchise deals with, at it’s heart, time travel…? So a re-casting of events seemingly falls almost entirely within the scope of it’s core narrative…

I suppose so, but if time travel as a plot element justifies mirroring an earlier film, I would argue that a plot about passing the baton to the next generation justifies that structure just as well, if not better.

Ah…perhaps therein might lie my chief difficulty…perhaps I simply do not like the next generation…possibly because it makes me feel old…? 😉

Post
#894819
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Lord Haseo said:

hydrospanner said:

I am also understanding that Ren views Darth Vader as the true personality of his grandfather and that reedeemed Anakin was just a corrupted version of him. So even if a force ghost talked to him he might dismiss it as not his true character or some sort of Jedi trickery.

This might be true. What we’ve seen of Kylo Ren (especially after he killed his father) is that this kid has some issues. Who knows what’s going through this man’s head.

This is another good point…in assuming a rational villain, the possibility that Ren might be suffering from schizophrenia or psychosis was overlooked…it would not only explain his outbursts and patricide, but equally his inconsistencies in usage of the force…

Post
#894802
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

DE…might I avail upon you to choose an alternate image for your signature? Though certainly none of my business, it would, nonetheless, improve my enjoyment of life not to have to constantly bear the sight of that questionable character…might I instead hopefully suggest one of your past avatars as its replacement…?

Kindly understand I am of a sensitive nature and the image is jarring…not quite Jar Jarring, but close enough…

Thank you in advance.

Kind regards,

Praetorian

Post
#894791
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

kylechu said:

I don’t get all the hate for it being a “remake” of Star Wars. I don’t think it mirrored that film any more than Terminator 2 mirrors the first Terminator. It hits all the same beats, but does so in a new way, and has a generally different feeling and tone to it.

I really, really liked TFA. It was a fun watch, and made me even more excited for VIII than I already was from my love of Rian Johnson.

The movie made me feel something - I felt excited, scared, tense, a lot of the same feelings I got from watching the OT. Of course it’s no ESB, but in my eyes, no movie ever will be.

I really didn’t care that it didn’t make perfect sense. I’m with Frink’s view in a different (terrible) thread that it’s just a movie and sometimes logical leaps are necessary, but I don’t think that’s the full picture. Some movies rely on the plot’s complexity to entertain, and those do need to be airtight. If you’re watching a movie and focusing on its logos, critiques like the ones I’m seeing - that the Millennium Falcon happened to be on Jaaku, that the tie fighter happened to crash in quicksand, that Maz happened to have the lightsaber - are perfectly valid.

But watching any Star Wars movie with a focus on logos over pathos is a mistake - that’s not what these movies are about. Star Wars has always been at its best when it comes to big emotions. Nobody complains when Luke happens to crash walking distance from Yoda’s hut in ESB, because how Luke gets there isn’t what the movie’s about.

Granted, there’s a few more moments like this in the new film than the OT, and I wouldn’t rank it close to Star Wars or ESB, but it’s still my view that if those things really bothered you enough to where you hated this movie as much as the prequels, I don’t understand what you liked about the Original Trilogy.

Is this not possibly due in large part to the fact that the Terminator franchise deals with, at it’s heart, time travel…? So a re-casting of events seemingly falls almost entirely within the scope of it’s core narrative…

At any rate I am well pleased that you enjoyed the film…

Post
#894787
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Smoking Lizard said:

TV’s Frink said:
And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.

That’s been suggested somewhere before, but in my mind, it’s absurd. To understand why it’s absurd is a bit complex, and many people won’t take the time to digest it, but it is absurd.

Here’s why: Vader’s redemption is probably the happiest, greatest thing that has ever happened to Luke and a shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL.

With Yoda’s passing, Luke is now the only champion of the Jedi Knights. He’s the only one. It is his duty, his calling, to tell a whole new generation about the Light Side of the Force and warn them away from the terrible dangers of the Dark Side.

So as the new Head Chief Jedi, Luke’s job, Luke’s duty, would be to spread the message of the power of the Light over the Dark. As Yoda said, the Dark is not more powerful, but it’s easier and seductive and must be resisted.

There simply would be no better story, no better evidence, no better shining example of how GOOD TRIUMPHS OVER EVIL than the story of Luke’s very own father.

That is not something he’d just keep to himself.

Unless he might have been deeply conflicted by the fact that his father sacrificed himself to save him rather than having allowed Luke the opportunity to save his father in turn…the concept that his father ultimately chose him over the emperor, power, and life itself might have a very sobering aspect that might keep Luke quiet and humble as to the telling…consider that Luke had grown up hating Vader only to discover too late that he was deeply mistaken as to the character and true identity of same. Luke may have felt a great deal of regret and the pangs of a missed opportunity whenever the subject might come to the fore. Ruminating on the events of the day might even be so difficult as to evoke a semblance of PTSD…

It is difficult to say for certain…

Post
#894782
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

TV’s Frink said:

Smoking Lizard said:

  • Why did Ren “pray” to Darth Vader’s helmet when Luke, Leia, and Han surely would have told Ren the story of how Darth Vader was redeemed? Ren is shown asking Darth Vader to show him the way to resist the light…but Darth Vader would be the worst person in the galaxy, living or dead, to ask for advice on that topic, wouldn’t he? THIS IS NOT A NITPICK.

You are right, this is not a nitpick, however it’s very plausible that Ren came to believe that LLH lied to him about Vader.

Not to weaken my point, which I think is legitimate, but I can’t resist pointing out that he definitely would have thought “Gee, my grandfather wouldn’t have done that, because that would have made him a WEAK VILLAIN.”

And how do you know Luke told anyone what really happened anyway? He could have easily wanted to keep the whole thing to himself.

Agreed…Luke does not strike me as being particularly chatty…I could well imagine a scenario in which he did not even realize Ren idolized his grandfather, simply taking for granted that no one would do such a thing.

And I guarantee you everyone in the First Order either didn’t know the real story or refused to believe it. Certainly Snoke would have discredited that story every chance he had, especially to Ren.

But this is all speculation for now. Perhaps more will be revealed in the next two movies.

Post
#894777
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Lord Haseo said:

Post Praetorian said:

Bosk said:

This review says all I will ever need to say about it http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-star-wars-the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

“watching “The Force Awakens,” I felt as though I was being shown a trailer for the next four movies in the series”.

This review is closer to my own experience…the sensation that I had been manipulated into paying to see an encore performance…

To be honest that’s how I feel every time I watch ANH. I walk away really enjoying the film but I always regard ESB and ROTJ as having the more important moments and that in turn makes me want to watch the others.

The fact that I feel this way about both films bodes well IMO

Ah…very good…! 😉

Post
#894736
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Bosk said:

This review says all I will ever need to say about it http://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-mh-star-wars-the-force-awakens-stinks-20151226-column.html

“watching “The Force Awakens,” I felt as though I was being shown a trailer for the next four movies in the series”.

This review is closer to my own experience…the sensation that I had been manipulated into paying to see an encore performance…

Post
#894676
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Bubba J said:

These are five things that pop into my mind when I think of what I didn’t like. I’m not going to post things I consider nit-picky.

  • Biggest issue was the entire Starkiller Base plot-line. It felt like it was just “there”. If it was really needed (which is wasn’t), it was glossed over too much.

Agreed

  • Thus I thought the pacing was almost too quick overall.

Agreed

  • The whole Rathtar scene. It didn’t add anything worthwhile to the final product in my opinion.

I did not mind it, but YMMV

  • Rey grasping the force so quickly, e.g. Jedi mind trick; feels like a deus ex machina.

Agreed

  • I thought it was inconsistent with its tone in several places.

Kindly elaborate…?

Post
#894637
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

TV’s Frink said:

a_moldey_waffle said:

Having said that, the biggest issue I have with The Force Awakens is that it is too reliant on exhibitionism and audience interaction. It is content to rest on the laurels of the franchise and let the already iconic imagery do the work without offering anything new to the table.

I’m going to disagree here. There is so much new, and so much risk taking, that I can’t agree nothing new is brought to the table.

Female lead to carry the movie, who is allowed to stay covered up (in one outfit, no less) and get sweaty and dirty? Huge risk.

Black second lead, as a defecting stormtrooper? Risk.

Han gets killed? Giant risk.

Luke doesn’t show up until the last scene and doesn’t say anything? Risk!

We get a complex imperfect villain completely unlike Vader who idolizes him at the same time. Not to mention a villain who doesn’t look like one when he takes the mask off. We see the force used in new and interesting ways.

I don’t disagree with much of your points, and the movie does play it safe in some ways, but it’s not a safe movie.

These are fair points as well…

Post
#894636
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

a_moldey_waffle said:

Forgive me If I am repeating anything anyone else has said, I have not read through this entire thread. Just want to give some of my thoughts.

I think the notion that TFA is a well acted, directed, designed, and composed film (on a technical level) can not be disputed. The film follows Campbell’s pattern of the hero’s journey almost religiously (much like the original Star Wars) and through this finds much success. That combined with truly solid directing and staging makes for a film that certainly kept me invested from beginning to end. The lazy staging of the prequels (walking and talking, sitting on a couch in shot reverse shot telling the plot rather than showing it) is done away with in TFA. There is always action and the characters are always doing rather than saying. The story and action keeps moving forward. This is what makes a movie a movie, rather than a play. This is something George did not understand when making the prequels while J.J. on the other hand knows how to turn a narrative into compelling cinema. On that front, The Force Awakens is overall a well-executed film. “Faster and more intense” was certainly taken to heart.

Having said that, the biggest issue I have with The Force Awakens is that it is too reliant on exhibitionism and audience interaction. It is content to rest on the laurels of the franchise and let the already iconic imagery do the work without offering anything new to the table. There are too many moments like when Han runs into the frame for the first time and stands there, waiting for the audience to finish cheering before saying his first line. It’s also off putting the way these moments were structured in that they were paced out in small doses as the film progressed. It’s like the filmmakers are going: Ok everybody it’s now time to clap for the falcon - 20 min later - Ok folks here comes Han, time for another applause - 20 more min - Now here’s Lei and C-3P0, more applause please. This 4th walled exhibitionism of OT imagery and characters distracts from the core narrative, which is something a film should never do. You enjoyed those moments in the theater but I can bet you’ll be cringing when you watch the BD by yourself or with just a small number of people. Now, of course OT imagery is necessary in this film as it is a continuation of the story. My issue is not with the imagery itself but they way it is presented, pausing for applause and then moving on. The more subtle things such as the red screen on the Falcon turret was something I appreciated a whole lot more because it adheres to established visual continuity (which makes you feel like we are right back where we left off) without being in your face about it, unlike a lot of other moments.

Where the prequels failed as compelling cinema, they succeeded in contributing to the lore. Despite their poor execution as films (really poor execution) they, at the very least, are wholly original in both background narrative and mise en scene (in other words, iconic imagery such as coruscant, battle droids, etc.) TFA fails on this account.

I know this has been said before and many will be quick to jump on me because of it, but the term ‘fan film’ really does come to mind when thinking about The Force Awakens (Much like J.J.'s Star Trek and Into Darkness). The Force Awakens is, at the end of the day, a caricature of the the original films without any of the substance. There was true mysticism, spirituality, and meaning behind the original three films. There is real wisdom to be drawn from Yoda’s teachings for example. There is no such substance in The Force Awakens. In being so overtly celebratory of the original trilogy with the wink winks and 4th walled references, TFA ironically fails to understand and capture the real reason we love Star Wars; that is the emotional connection to the characters. Rey has no time to realistically develop as a character because she is too busy saying stuff like “You’re Han Solo! You made the Kessel run in 12 parsecs”. It’s very difficult to get pulled into a story when the film tries so hard to pull you back out with lines like that.

Sorry for making this so long, It was not what I intended when I started typing. I can’t help but ramble sometimes. There’s more stuff I wanted to touch on (which I did not like) such as marvel humor, the poor score, and more. Perhaps another time. Thanks for reading.

TLDR: The Force Awakens is a great action film worth seeing (as if anyone hasn’t seen it ;D). It was meticulously designed to do nothing more than please the general audience and it succeeds in achieving that goal. However it is too bogged down by reliance on exhibitionism and audience interaction and as such loses the emotional connection to the audience.

A good assessment…

Post
#894620
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

Post Praetorian said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.

I am not doing so out of a sheer sense of misplaced humor if that is what you might be suspecting…my frustration is genuine…and the realization that it has brought to mind is equally so.

You are actually serious. You actually prefer the prequels to TFA. Lunacy.

Post Praetorian said:

Yoda Is Your Father said:

I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.

I would rather watch a film with more space/droid battles than one in which yet another Death Star is blown up with even less rationale than the prior two efforts…

You’re nuts mate. It doesn’t matter how ‘original’ the prequels are. They were long-winded, boring cartoons filled with bad dialogue, convoluted plots, and terrible, all-style-no-substance set pieces. In addition to being bad in their own right, they also damaged the original trilogy by ret-conning key characters and moments.

I compare the initial feeling I had after watching the PT to how I felt after TFA…what I recall is being interested in how the story-line unfolded in the PT, while during TFA I was struggling not to out-predict each development given its seeming lack of originality. The difference was striking. Given a choice between a ‘convoluted’ and original plot as opposed to an unoriginal re-hash I prefer the former…if your preference is towards the latter so be it.

A semen and dog shit sandwich for lunch is ‘original’, but I’ll take good ol’ ham and cheese any day of the week.

Is this excessively insulting tone fully necessary…? Is this truly an attempt to bully or shame me out of my honest opinion…?

Judging from some of the posts I’ve seen, there are a lot of guys here who either study film, work in film, or teach film - genuine, educated fans of the medium we call cinema. No true lover of cinema can honestly believe (or successfully argue) that the prequels are good movies. They just can’t. they can try, but they’re wrong. This is not a matter of opinion, it’s a matter of fact.

I was unaware that there is such thing as subjective fact… Seemingly the attempt to align ‘genuine[ly] educated fans’ with your opinion is little more than words on a page. It is surprising that it is up to me to inform you that others are perfectly free to enjoy what-so-ever they prefer for whatever reasons they may dream up, just as are you. These odd tactics of defiling the ‘unbeliever’ border upon religious-fervor…it is absolutely bizarre behavior. I apologize if I may have struck too close to the core of a cherished belief… It was not my intent to seek to damage some valuable sense of self that may feel threatened in the face of a contrary point of view…

All I can assume is there are some people here who either a) like to show off their ‘superior’ knowledge of film theory by championing a contrary view or b) just like to argue.

c) Hold a different opinion than do you…

Regards,

Post Praetorian

Post
#894448
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Swiftburn said:

Bingowings said:

Swiftburn said:

As much as I loved the movie, one thing felt odd.

The music isn’t that memorable, maybe it’s because I’ve only seen the film once so far but eh. I can remember Rey’s theme and that’s it, even the prequels soundtrack was more memorable and I find myself humming it once in a while.

I’m not saying the music was bad, but it isn’t memorable to me. I may end up loving and remembering it when I see it again and when I buy the soundtrack.

^I said this already 😄

Ah, I didn’t see it and I’m new to posting here 😛

Welcome…!

Post
#893960
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

Yoda Is Your Father said:

I honestly can’t believe that anybody claiming to be a Star Wars fan could genuinely think that AOTC or any of the prequels is better than TFA.

I am not doing so out of a sheer sense of misplaced humor if that is what you might be suspecting…my frustration is genuine…and the realization that it has brought to mind is equally so.

I would rather watch the Rathtar scene from TFA on repeat for two hours than have to sit through one viewing of the droid factory scene where CGI threepio get his head stuck on a battle droid.

I would rather watch a film with more space/droid battles than one in which yet another Death Star is blown up with even less rationale than the prior two efforts…

Post
#893957
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

adywan said:

I’ve seen a few people now claim that the prequels were better than TFA because “at least they were original”. But were they? TPM is similar to ANH in most respects, with its final act being ROTJ. And then we get to AOTC… Please tell me what film i am describing here? 😉

The three main characters get split up in this film. One goes off on a mission while the other two fly off somewhere else, where they start to fall in love. There are no space battles, just chases. The main battle is a ground battle on a planet where they face a mechanical foe. There is a chase through an asteroid field where, to evade their pursuer they hide inside/ on an asteroid. The bad guy asks the good guy to join him and together they can defeat the bigger bad guy. There is a lightsaber fight and a skywalkers arm/ hand gets cut off. the final shot in the film has two of the main characters standing on one side, with R2 & 3P0 on the other.

but, i guess when George does it, it rhymes 😉

Though one might be potentially able to argue any 2 films into having similarities in general scope and terms, the essential plots of the PT diverge considerably from the OT.

ANH, on the other hand, not only rhymes with TFA…it even uses the same words in the refrain…

Post
#893900
Topic
Random Thoughts
Time

Danfun128 said:

RicOlie_2 said:

TL;DR: Nice try, but we’ve got this stuff figured out. ;P

EDIT: If you’re interested in continuing this discussion further, we should probably take it here.

Why? The topic doesn’t deal exclusively with Catholicism. Maybe we should bring up the philosophical thread?

Yes please…? I will ready the drinks and serve the snacks…but first I must dust…it has been so long since anyone has come to visit…

Post
#893898
Topic
What didn't you like about TFA? <em>SPOILERS</em>
Time

Bosk said:

Post Praetorian said:

TV’s Frink said:

hydrospanner said:

They did introduce new characters and there was no way they were making a sequel trilogy that omitted all the characters from the OT. Why even bother making an episode VII if it isn’t going to have any relation to the previous installments?

I can only imagine the complaints in this thread if there were no old characters.

Agreed…I was most pleased at their appearances…one of the few things I actually enjoyed… 😉

I only enjoyed hearing the opening score and Luke’s theme again in a Cinema, all be it the latter supporting the wrong character? Surely it would have been a better finish to the film if we had heard Luke’s theme when he was finally shown on screen and had him do some pensive stare over the cliffs with rey stood behind, not her holding out the light sabre for ten minutes.

It is here that I humbly admit to clearly not being a terribly observant SW fan…as until recently I had not even considered certain music to be associated with particular characters…<sigh>

Post
#893887
Topic
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS **
Time

darth_ender said:

Bosk said:

HyperNova said:

Alderaan said:

“Complete his training” is relative. If he’s already enough of a badass to freeze someone in mid-air with his mind at will,

It could be that little trick wasn’t even a Force power.
Maybe it was a piece of technology that created a "stasis shield " around an energie beam.

Maybe is was a glitch in the edit, nope it was just as ridiculous as the rest of the film. I just got over prequelitis, now suffering severe sequelitis.

I seem to recall a great deal of Star Wars lore indicating that the dark side is the quick and easy path, wherein its weilders often learn powerful tricks swiftly, but at the cost of other skills, particularly with self mastery. I could easily see a Dark user like Kylo Ren, who is clearly powerful and talented, but also immature and lacking in self control, performing such a potent move, but in a rage motivated battle losing to someone inherently stronger.

A fair point…and good to see you again… 😉