OutboundFlight

DuracellEnergizer said:

OutboundFlight said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’d say the ideas behind the prequels are substance. Too bad Lucas’ ego didn’t allow him to pass them along to someone with actual talent to develop and execute competently.

From what I’ve heard, Lucas didn’t want to direct. He wanted to hand the project over to someone else with him producing, like in Empire and Jedi, but the studio insisted on making it “his project”. What they didn’t realize was the OT everyone fell in love with wasn’t what George had wanted in the first place, and it was only with his limitations and other input that such a balance between creative substance and inspiring narrative could be accomplished.

Studio? It’s my understanding the prequels were all multi-million-dollar independent films.

And yet it was distributed by 20th Century Fox, and consisted of tons of yes men Lucas had hired just for his project. He had the final say, but they influenced him.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/star-wars-episode-i--the-phantom-menace/steven-spielberg-ron-howard-turned-down-prequels/

DuracellEnergizer said:

I’d say the ideas behind the prequels are substance. Too bad Lucas’ ego didn’t allow him to pass them along to someone with actual talent to develop and execute competently.

From what I’ve heard, Lucas didn’t want to direct. He wanted to hand the project over to someone else with him producing, like in Empire and Jedi, but the studio insisted on making it “his project”. What they didn’t realize was the OT everyone fell in love with wasn’t what George had wanted in the first place, and it was only with his limitations and other input that such a balance between creative substance and inspiring narrative could be accomplished.

Valheru_84 said:

Rodney-2187 said:

Game Of Thrones Duo David Benioff & D.B. Weiss Exit Trilogy

https://deadline.com/2019/10/star-wars-setback-game-of-thrones-duo-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-exit-trilogy-1202771184/

Thank christ for that! After the way GoT ended not to mention the obvious drop in writing quality and general issues over the last 2-3 seasons when they had no books to adapt from, I seriously didn’t want them anywhere near a script for Star Wars.

Also the last word I heard on RJ’s trilogy is that after many months of him steadfastly confirming it was still happening and in preparation, his tone at a recent interview has changed to “if” it is still happening. Before TLJ I was intrigued with the premise for his trilogy but now I’d be happy for him to not touch another Star Wars movie ever again.

At this point I see TV series like Mandalorian and Kenobi as the way forward for Star Wars and possibly starting to heal the rift TLJ and the ST at large has caused. I am neutrally interested to know what Fiege’s movie will be about though.

I think RJ’s greatest issue with TLJ is he didn’t think of it as the 8th Star Wars movie, or even the second ST movie. Instead he just made his own thing. On it’s own I’d argue TLJ is a good subversion of SW. This is why I am looking forward to RJ.

On the other hand, I’m happy D&D are out.

The trailer looks really good! I love the original direction it seems to be taking. Unfortunately, I will not be using Disney Plus. But I will try to stay unspoiled, on the off chance it releases elsewhere.

Not at all. What’s important to remember is the Droids outnumbered the Clones 100-1. That’s an insane ratio. Imagine a medieval knight, decked out in all armor on horseback, against 100 spear-armed peasants. That’s basically the quality gap from Clone to Droid. It is the reason whenever we see them, they are almost always killing tons of battle droids. Eventually, though, one battle droid is lucky enough to shoot one down, and the war stays even.

There are two reasons the Republic did not raise an army:

1. The Clone War is imperialistic by nature. The CIS is fighting for their freedom, so it makes some sense why they’d get a militia (see: Geonosis, Umbara). But the Republic is fighting to keep its government together. A war would easily backfire should actual citizens start dying in combat. Senators would question the violence and possibly depose Palpatine, who was adamant in the war’s continuation. But Clones are viewed as second class citizens, so no one really cares. Plus the Republic can continue on economically.

2. Clones are stronger. They come from Jango Fett’s DNA, so they are better than the average soldier. Continuing on our metaphor, imagine the clones to be a knight, droids peasants, and the average person a medieval soldier/archer - at least they know how to fight, but if they go against the best, game over. So not only does it help the Republic stay together internally, it contributes to their chances of victory.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Honestly, Luke not using his lightsaber is fine because he has two more movies to do that.

Concerning Han’s rescue, if anything should be cut, it’s the droids, without a doubt.

I agree. It’s a largely trivial concern because we have the other two movies to work off. Empire introduces the Emperor and the “Other” but the payoff is held to Jedi. The same could be argued applies to the lightsaber here.

That being said this article is very interesting. I don’t think I’ve ever been able to name a genuine flaw with ANH prior.

I recently watched the deleted scenes of Attack of the Clones. I was shocked at how good they were. It’s like Lucas was sick that day of shooting and the actors got to have emotion. It’s not perfect (in fact most of its cringy) but its far better than the wooden talk of the rest of the film.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDPmS7a1UYo

Here’s a rundown of why every scene is so important.

Padme Addresses the Senate: This was replaced with the meeting between the Jedi, Padme, and Palpatine in the office. But this take is far better. It shows us the discontent in the Senate instead of telling. It is clearly explained why someone is trying to kill Padme. In the office scene, Padme just jumps to the conclusion it is Dooku, but here it’s suggested someone more sinister, possibly in the Republic, is involved, which actually sets up a mystery. Last, the scene’s end establishes some clear stakes - Palpatine pushes the debate to the next morning, making Obi-Wan and Anakin’s night watch impactful.

Jed Temple Analysis Room: Explains why Obi-Wan didn’t use the Republic’s resource and instead went to some 50s diner.

The Lost Twenty: A very good scene. This gives us a proper introduction to Count Dooku far earlier, which sets him up as an antagonist. This exposition shows us there is more to Dooku than just some generic villain. And the Jedi Librarian shows genuine emotion!

Anakin’s Nightmare: Shows us Anakin’s frequent nightmares instead of telling about all but one. This makes his trip to Tatooine more understandable.

Obi-Wan and Mace on the Landing Platform: Woah! Mace Windu is likable?

Padme’s Parent’s House: Replaced by the long “palace on a lake” BS we got in AOTC. In this version, they actually try to have chemistry. It feels like Disney Channel, but at least it feels like something! There’s even a point where they intercut Anakin and Padme talking to her father and mother, respectively, about the other. This entire scene shows us the people in the Star Wars galaxy can have emotion. It contrasts heavily with the Jedi, giving us an understanding of Anakin’s inner conflict. I’m baffled as to why it was replaced with “I don’t like sand”.

Padme’s Bedroom: Woah! Padme is likable?

Dooku Interrogates Padme: Woah! Dooku is (almost) likable? Also, the subsequent trial gives us a better understanding as to how the Separatists work and makes them less generic bad guys.

If I ever make an edit for AOTC, I’m bringing in all these scenes, and cutting out some of the pointless action beats.

I think the battle is in the ice planet’s atmosphere.

Actually, if we look at TFA, it’s only competition in 2015 was Alvin and the Chipmunks. Not hard to see why one movie flopped, and the other became the third highest grossing of all time.

TROS, however, has to deal with…

1. Jumanji 2, a sequel to a proven franchise with great star power.

2. 1917, a high-stakes war movie that looks very well made.

3. Cats, which will probably flop but might take presence in memes.

4. Spies in Disguise, which will likely flop but might take away from child audiences.

5. Frozen 2, despite coming out last month, will probably still have significant numbers over holidays.

Should 1917 get great word of mouth or Jumanji 2 continue to surprise like its predecessor, TROS is almost guaranteed to make less, regardless of it’s quality.

The trailer to me felt very “corny”, but in a good way. It finds the right balance between the end of an epic saga and a new adventure. Because TFA and TLJ took place right after the other I haven’t yet gotten the fun adventure feeling from the OT. This makes me genuinely excited to see the adventures of Rey, Finn, and Poe while also seeming like a true conclusion.

We’ll have to see how they work in Palpatine without it diminishing Snoke, but overall, I am feeling very positive about this installment.

RogueLeader said:

Rey: Han Solo?? And that means you must be Chewbacca!

Han Solo: No, this is his son, Lumpy!

Ironically enough, that might be all we need. Don’t even explain it within the episode but if anyone asks resort to that.

Each episode should last 22 minutes, because of limited footage. Before each episode should be an opening voiceover similar to Star Wars: The Clone Wars, to provide alternate background information.

Episode 1 - The Map: In the aftermath of the Abeloth Crisis, Luke Skywalker has disappeared in search of the First Jedi Temple. Despite peace with the Imperial Remnant, a small terror cell led by an old apprentice of Palpatine called the First Order believes the secrets of the temple are key to opening an ancient superweapon. Kylo Ren arrives at Jakku and captures Galactic Alliance Intelligence Agent Poe Dameron, but his droid escapes. Meanwhile, Stormtrooper Finn has a crisis of conscience and breaks Poe out, leading to a space battle. They crash, and the episode ends.

Episode 2 - The Scavenger: BB-8 is found by Rey. The episode is told mostly from Rey’s perspective with some Finn, culminating in their escape from Jakku. The episode ends with their ship caught by Han Solo, who proclaims “we’re home”.

Episode 3 - The Smuggler: Opening voiceover explains Han has gone back to his old ways, now with Chewbacca’s son. The rathtar battle occurs and they are able to escape. They then travel to Maz’s Castle, where Finn leaves the group and Anakin’s lightsaber calls to Rey. Meanwhile, Kylo Ren goes undercover onboard Starkiller Base.

Episode 4 - The Lightsaber: Kylo speaks with Snoke, who reveals in order to complete his training he must kill his father - Luke Skywalker. Kylo Ren = Ben Skywalker, grandson of Darth Vader. On Takodona Rey learns she is destined to be a Jedi when the First Order attacks and Kylo captures Rey. Poe makes a triumphant return and Han and Leia reunite.

Episode 5 - The Superweapon: We learn from the opening voiceover than in order to activate the ancient Sith superweapon, the First Order must find and kill the only one who knows the First Jedi Temple’s secrets, Luke. Han and Finn stage a daring break-in and save Rey. Han the cool uncle tries to save his nephew but is killed. Finn takes a big injury, but they manage to escape thanks to Rey accepting her fate. Ends with her traveling to Ach-To.

At this point Rey would be training with Luke. This would intentionally not be shown. We do see the Rey / Kylo force talks but from Kylo’s perspective.

Episode 6 - The Dreadnought: With Leia’s group having discovered the existence of Starkiller, the First Order moves to the offensive to prevent Leia from contacting the rest of the galaxy. Poe has a deadly plan, but it proves for nothing when the First Order tracks them through hyperspace. Leia is injured in the ensuing attack.

Episode 7 - The Plan: Holdo comes into control of the Resistance and Finn makes up. Poe and Finn create a deadly plan that involves disabling the Supremacy’s hyperspace tracker from the inside, but it all proves for naught when Finn and Rose are captured and Poe’s mutiny is ended by Leia.

Episode 8 - The Supreme Leader: Rey arrives on the Supremacy. Ben kills Snoke, but cannot turn Rey to the dark side. Holdo does the lightspeed ram and everyone retreats to Crait, for the finale.

Episode 9 - The Jedi Master: The Battle of Crait. Everyone has given up hope when suddenly Luke returns. He defends everyone as they escape and then reveals himself to be a force projection. On Ach-To Luke pushes himself like never before and is able to destroy Starkiller Base with his mind, before he becomes one with the force.

That’d be really cool, but I think it’s impossible because Chewbacca would have to still be alive. He dies in the Vong war, if I recall correctly. So you’d have to place it before the Vong war, which means you can’t kill of Han Solo or pretend Kylo Ren is Darth Caedus. And then all the characters are older than they should be.

The only possibility I see is to have recolor all of Chewbacca white, and pretend he is some new Wookie Han’s replaced. Which is frankly disheartening, but fits into the canon.

I think it’d be pretty easy to establish Rey in TLJ. A custom crawl explains the Republic has brought peace to the galaxy, but cannot crush the last remains of the Empire on Starkiller Base. Then the finale from TFA plays - Han is killed early on, Rey holds her own against Kylo, but Poe fails to destroy the base in time. It fires and destroys Coruscant.

Rey reaches Ach-To within the first 15 minutes. With the Republic gone the mission of Leia’s Battalion is simple - escape. And they are banking on Luke to save the day.

Finn can stay unconscious throughout. He is not needed because without TFA he won’t be an established character yet, and can easily be pushed to the sidelines. Instead we’d follow Rey and Poe.

Poe’s plan would be mutiny the Raddus, then attack the Supremacy dead on in hopes of temporarily disabling the engines and escaping. It’s dangerous but the only option he can think of. Instead of Holdo and Leia keeping the plan a secret, I’d change it to a public plan centered around Luke. Throughout the movie Leia will have faith that her brother will return, until she finally gives up on Crait - just as the Last Jedi answers the call.

However, while this might sound like a tighter TLJ, I’d actually advise against this. I think TFA is enjoyable and not worth cutting out. Rey’s character origin is a small price to pay for a good Star War Episode.

Reviewing Disney’s Posters
TPM: Ok. Maul looks awkward in the back, and I’d argue the “blue” backdrop doesn’t suit this movie well. It needs color.

AOTC: I feel the same way as TPM, but to a greater extreme. The character positions are fantastic, besides Jango who looks pasted on. But the color is so dull…

ROTS: In contrast, I think this is a great poster, although the lightsaber colors really should be fixed. Only issue is the Death Star looks like forced clipart.

SOLO: Just brilliant. Love the color and layout.

R1: Is this just the original one with a cyan backdrop? Regardless, it works.

ANH: All the nostalgia aside, I think this might be the best “modern” poster for ANH. I like it!

ESB: The only instance here I feel the “colors” really add something - the icy atmosphere makes this poster looks awesome! The layout is a bit jumbled, but it still makes for great poster.

ROTJ: Also good! Only issue is Han’s derpy face.

TFA: Only design I feel is fair calling “ugly”. Not feeling it whatsoever.

TLJ: Literally the original poster with a red tint. Unlike the other posters the color overlay feels on the nose. It does it’s job, but I prefer the variant with color.

Lord of the Rings: Fantasy on “Earth”
Star Wars: Fantasy in Space

Jurassic Park: Science Fiction on Earth
Star Trek: Science Fiction in Space

Am I the only one who feels Maz has been shoved into the franchise just because she hasn’t died yet? She served her purpose in TFA. In TLJ her appearance seemed like fan-service for someone no one cared about (yet, I’m sure the kids of today will have nostalgia for her in the future). Who knows what role she will play in TROS. Maybe it’s important, but I’m worried it will just be an another random “hey I’m here and I’m helping because I’m good!”

It’s not that big a deal; just something minor that keeps on bugging me.

FreezingTNT2 said:

What is it with people wanting Han to be killed off in Return of the Jedi?

Two reasons. One, I think the finale should have some big sacrifice from one of the characters to make the victory more grounded. Han is one of the most important characters, and we just had a movie dedicated to rescuing him so you’d think he would play a major role in the finale. However, killing Han does ruin the ST. Lando makes the most sense.

BedeHistory731 said:

I like that “two movies” idea a lot! I think I’d go about it a little differently, namely to allow Vader’s redemption a bit more development and show him trying to fess up to his mistakes. I like your ideas, Outbound Flight, so allow me to build off of them.

I love this!

My one suggestion would be giving Vader a bit of larger presence in Episode IV. Maybe the Empire never realizes that Vader is an insider, so he’s reluctantly beside the Emperor following Maul’s death. The two now have a very cold relationship with both nearly certain the other knows they know. Vader doesn’t think he has the strength to kill the Emperor without Luke. Luke won’t kill the Emperor until Vader turns good. I’d do this because right it now just feels like the Emperor is waiting for Vader and Luke to team up and kill him. It doesn’t make much sense to me why the two would fight while the Emperor watches if they both just want to kill the Emperor.

I have some very drastic ideas regarding fixing ROTJ. Before I begin, I want to clearly state I enjoy ROTJ as it is. It is my fourth favorite SW movie and makes for a fun time. It is a fine conclusion to the OT. But it still pales in comparison to ANH and ESB, particularly when you consider all the nuances Empire was setting up. George Lucas has said he just wanted to “wrap up” Star Wars after ESB, but what if he hadn’t been tired of the franchise at that point, and was willing to continue?

Ultimately, I have come to the realization that in order to fix Return of the Jedi, it must be split into two separate movies. This would turn the Original Trilogy into the Original Quadriology.

My reasoning is as follows. “A New Hope” has a clear plot structure that is established in the opening crawl. The Empire has the Death Star, the Rebellion wants to stop the Death Star. Everything that happens in that movie revolves around destroying or defending the Death Star. The droids get the plans, we follow the plans around, they rescue the princess, and they destroy the Death Star.

“Empire Strikes Back” also has a clear plot structure that is established in the opening crawl, although it’s missable if you aren’t paying attention. The film is all about Vader hunting Luke. Luke on Dagobah is all about teaching Luke to be ready for the inevitable confrontation, while Han and Leia are stalling for said confrontation. Alas, they are captured too early, and Luke has not had enough training to properly confront Vader.

“Return of the Jedi” does not have a clear plot structure. Instead, it has three plots all mashed into one movie. They are…

1. Rescue Han Solo from the clutches of Jabba, in the aftermath of TESB.
2. Destroy the Second Death Star
3. Redeem Darth Vader / Don’t seduce Luke Skywalker

I think this is too much and gives way to a wonky story that is more about wrapping up Empire’s loose ends than giving us a proper conclusion. Let’s consider Han’s rescue. Can anyone tell me what it accomplishes in ROTJ? All it serves is to get Han on Endor, so we can have a proper resolution. It would have been easier to just NOT have Han be captured in the first place. And with a third of ROTJ dedicated to stopping a side villain unrelated to the Empire, we cannot properly explore the themes introduced in the latter half of the film.

So if I had been in charge of Star Wars during 1980, I would have created two more Star Wars movies.

Episode III: Luke and Leia try to rescue Han Solo from Jabba. Meanwhile, the Emperor has become displeased by Vader’s failure to bring in Luke and has now recruited Jabba - who looks more like Prince Xizor - to hunt Luke in a race against Vader. Vader goes rogue, forming an unlikely alliance with the Rebels to take down Jabba. Unsure as to the ending - either it returns to the status quo, or Vader and Luke team up against the Emperor to rule father and son.

Episode IV: The Rebels learn the Death Star was just a prototype, and hundreds more are being constructed above Kashyyk. We learn Chewebacca’s backstory as an outcast to his people, but he must return home to convince the Wookies to join the fight. Han sacrifices himself. Luke defeats Vader and walks off into a (binary) sunset.

I’d like to know what George’s true thoughts on TLJ are. It has many “new ideas” that George seemed to be complaining about from TFA…

Solo’s biggest issue was that they (bafflingly) placed it in May rather than December, just six months after the last movie. Then they failed to properly market the movie at all. They failed to give it an original “feel” (love or hate it, the MCU does a really good job making each trailer feel unique so people hype about each movie). Last, and most of all, it was right after Infinity War AND Deadpool 2. Movies that to the general audience were far more interesting than a Solo origin movie.

At the end of the day, this is still a Star Wars movie. Specifically the end. Audiences love ends of franchises. I don’t think negativity from TLJ will play much of a role into TROS. Rather Episode Nine’s real problem is its contenders in December.

The reason TFA did so well was for the long stretch of December - mid-January it was the only blockbuster in cinemas. Prime Holiday Season. Families wanting to take a break in the holidays and see a movie really only had one choice, and considering how the film was built - to be a simple, enjoyable experience, it fit perfectly into this mold.

Compare this to December 2017, and TLJ reigned supreme at first, but just five days later two surprising popular films - Jumanji and The Greatest Showman - showed up. They took most of TLJ’s end of the holiday season steam. Couple this with the length + more nuanced nature of TLJ, and you don’t have a film that encourages the kind of marketing TFA prospered off. I don’t think the “backlash” contributed to much at all.

TROS is in an interesting situation. Jumanji 2 is coming, but it is slated a week before TROS opens. This makes it marketing towards the prime audience. Now Star Wars is notorious for not doing so well internationally, at least compared to America. Jumanji could steal a huge chunk of TROS’s overseas sales. I still think it will reign king in America, though. Abrams will likely direct the film as “fun” like TFA, even if there are more creative elements, leading to more rewatches over the holiday season.

Well, that should be it. I don’t think I am going to create an alternate 7, 8, or 9, because the way 6 raps up is more or less the equivalent to how the OT ends irl.

STAR WARS: EPISODE VI- RISE OF THE BENDU
Having seized control of the Republic’s only Death Star, the Confederacy of Independent System appears unchallenged in might. They now race towards the core, destroying all in their path. The Jedi Order is losing numbers, and after learning of Windu’s treachery with the destruction of Kessel, most of the galaxy has turned against the so-called “peacekeepers”. The only symbol of peace in the galaxy now is the mysterious “Bendu”, a Jedi-like figure who takes no side in the war and is only interested in helping those who cannot defend themselves.

Intro
Obi-Wan and Leia arrive on Sereno and meet a near-dead elderly Count Dooku. Obi-Wan offers him a drink and introduces who he believes could become a new apprentice. Dooku laughs, citing the time he betrayed Palpatine and tells Obi-Wan he will never be tricked. He orders Obi-Wan to kill Leia now and takes a sip from his wine. The poison kills him instantly.

Act One
Luke Skywalker is a Jedi turned Bounty Hunter turned Bendu. While both powers are distracted by the war, Canto Bight has emerged as a leading slave trader. Luke goes to the planet and frees the children, although it proves a fatal misstep, for the Confederate fleet, is soon to arrive.

Captured, Luke is taken to General Grevious. Grevious explains the CIS has been taken over by Obi-Wan and Leia… something he will not stand for. For his own petty reasons, Grevious has decided to betray the CIS and wants to work with Luke to destroy the Death Star once and for all. Luke is suspicious, having heard this speech from many people at this point, but nevertheless cautiously agrees.

We also follow two separate subplots - on Serrano, Leia embraces the dark side further under Obi-Wan’s teachings. We discover they are planning to use the Death Star against Coruscant. On Coruscant, Windu and new Republic Chancellor Mon Mothma must deal with the increasing anti-Republic sentiment in the galaxy.

Act Two
In order to defeat Obi-Wan, Luke and Grevious must build an army. To do this they travel to the rundown factories on Geonosis, where restart the foundry. Meanwhile, Chewbacca suggests rallying the Wookies, who have been neutral at this point in the war. Han and Chewie travel to Kasshyyk and are able to convince the Wookies to join the fight. Everyone regroups and heads to Courscant, where they plan to warn the Republic.

Luke has a moment when he returns to the Jedi Temple. The Jedi still consider him a traitor and arrest him. All part of the plan. At his trial, he speaks about the pointlessness to the war and that the true enemy is not the Republic or Confederacy, but the dark side and the Death Star. Mon Mothma agrees to this sentiment and accepts the help of Grevious and the Wookies.

Act Three
The massive opposition lightspeeds to Serenno, where a great battle emerges. Luke, Grevious, and Windu fight their way through the Serenno palace. Grevious and Windu are both killed. Luke, at last, reaches the throne room, where now Emperor Obi-Wan taunts him and uses Leia to fight. After a long, emotional battle, Luke is able to convince Leia to stop. She rethinks her choice and is redeemed, as the children of Anakin Skywalker. Obi-Wan, having turned to the dark side largely due to Anakin’s death, is emotionally beaten and drives his saber into his heart - a partial redemption, if you will.

Luke and Leia walk out of the burning Sith Temple and are met by their many friends and allies. Together, the remnants of the Republic and Confederacy merge into a new Galactic Alliance, ending the years of division that have plagued the galaxy since Palpatine’s meddling. The Jedi are also reorganized into the Bendu, with Yoda and Anakin’s force ghosts watching Luke and Leia happily. Peace has been restored to the galaxy.

750 in America
875 in foreign
1.625 billion in total

Maul: Athletics, playing a bunch of droids in a capture the flag game or something.

Dooku: Painting / sculpting / orchestra. I see him as the sort to patron the arts.

Palpatine: Dark side artifact collection, largely to gain power. The type to never stop working.

Vader: We see him in some sort of tube without the suit. He might hate the suit and prefer to be in the bacta, just chilling. Maybe he goes on the Star Wars internet equivalent.

Snoke: Wonder about his backstory.

Kylo: The exact kind of person you’d expect to excessively tweet.