OmegaMattman

bkev said:

^But an LD image isn't quite as clear, so you wouldn't see the aliasing as much thanks to it being a bit blurry. Also, if there really is a vertical blur, does that mean that the release was modified and not sent out just as-is straight rip? Interesting... shame they couldn't have been assed to do any more.

If you check the end of the X0 Project thread, there are some screenshot samples addressing this.  You can see the detail loss from the vertical blur on some of Artoo's finer details.

I think the reason there are still jaggies and shimmering remaining in the image is that the instability combined with the low resolution results in some details ending up on completely separate lines, which could well be beyond fixing.

Plus the vertical blur Lucasfilm added to the DVD to hide the problem only exacerbates it.  Even though the LD Definitive Collection suffers from the same issues overall, it seems the aliasing cleans up a tiny bit more.

So far, from the test I just ran...this option isn't going to cut it, unfortunately :(

The image was a lot sharper, but it adds a weird "bob" to the picture and seems to do nothing for aliasing.  It tried it both with and without all of the "temporal repair" functions activated, but with similar results.

Someone else may want to have a go at this filter to double check.  I'd hate to have done something wrong and have a Holy Grail of GOUT restoration overlooked.

Ever notice that a new filter always pops up AFTER you've finished all of your video encoding for a project? ;)

I'll check it out and see how it looks compared to what I had been using on my Hyperspace Collection (which was a combination of NNEDI2 and AAA).

Thanks, Doctor M ;)

dlbsyst said:

I wouldn't change a thing and I can't believe this originated from the GOUT DVD.

Thanks, dlbsyst ;)

Just a brief progress update.  I've finished encoding my h264 masters for both Empire and Jedi and will upload MKV samples before the week is out.  Hopefully, I won't need to make any changes...because I'm getting sick of looking at GOUT ;)

Right now, I'm working on the disc of supplements to accompany the set.  I'm hoping to make it an AVCHD as well, but only partially in upscaled HD.  720p extras will most likely be limited to THX WOW and a collection of trailers.  All other (few) extras will be standard-def.

I had considered upscaling the Making of Star Wars documentary...but I'd like to use a source that isn't subtitled and isn't from VHS.  If anyone has a digital transfer of the US LaserDisc release, I'd love to take a look at it and "maybe" add it to the set.

Here's the updated link for the "real" MKV sample.  I'm also updating my previous post accordingly.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N4AJ9ZO6

Harmy said:

The file is too big for non-premium members to download. You'll need to split it up to under 500MB parts.

Whoops!  That'll teach me to not read the instructions ;)

I'll get a split RAR up within the next few hours.


EDIT:  Actually, it looks like I uploaded the wrong file.  This is based on my raw AVI, not the proper h264.

*Smacks forehead* No wonder it took me so long to upload.  The proper file (about 350mb) is uploading now.

MKV DEMO AVAILABLE:
This short, 6+ minute MKV sample is taken from the early portions Star Wars.  The video reflects my current (hopefully final) processing settings.

Being from the beginning of the movie, it has the worst of the aliasing problems.  Unfortunately, unless someone has a solution I'm not aware of, I think this is the best it's gonna get :/

Also, the sound is a temporary track and does not represent the audio level of the final version.

EDIT:  Corrected link - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N4AJ9ZO6

IF IT AIN'T BROKE...:
I've decided to go back to my original plan to recycle the audio mixes from my Rebellion Collection.  Since I was planning to encode the new audio tracks at the same bitrate (224kbps), it just makes sense.  I haven't decided whether or not to include Rebellion's 5.1 upmixes as well.

Soundtrack Usage Notice:

Just a few notes for those who had asked me about using Rebellion's theatrical mixes in their GOUT projects.

1) Star Wars will not sync flawlessly to GOUT due to the chapter-branching function it uses.

2) The Empire Strikes Back will sync to GOUT at 23.976 fps with no problems.

3) Return of the Jedi will only sync to the NTSC version of GOUT at 23.976 fps.  The PAL release has a few extra frames midway through the film when the Rebel fleet is first seen...which I did not know until I recently picked the PAL edition :/

dark_jedi said:

LMAO, nice little dig there buddy, to each their own, that is all I will say.

OOPS, I seriously didn't mean that to sound like a stab at Project Blu!  There are gains to be made, especially (IMO) in terms of lossless audio :)

It could be this script I'm using...or the limits of my software/hardware...or something else, but when I increased my settings to a Blu-level bitrate, I wasn't seeing much of a gain in picture quality.  Maybe I've just been staring at this darn GOUT for so long that it's starting to all look the same no matter what I try ;)

Darth Editous said:

Have you considered that by upscaling you're locking yourself down needlessly? A lot of TVs and media players out there that do some pretty damn good upscaling, and are always getting better, but if you've already upscaled the input, you rob them of the opportunity to do a possibly better job.

DE

At first, I did feel that way (especially since my home BD player really kicks @$$ at upscaling).  My thought was that, in the end, it's still GOUT.  Heck, that's probably the single most important argument I use for not doing a full-on BD-R version ;)

But, after comparing my original Rebellion version of Empire to my first 720p test, I was able to see a clear difference.  It wasn't dramatic by any stretch of the imagination, but it did look a bit sharper and a bit more...filmy.

You make a good point.  And, just in case there are players that can do a better job, I do intend to release a standard DVD counterpart to this set.  I guess, more than anything, this is an experiment just to see how well a 720p upscale of GOUT "can" be done.  It'll be up to the viewer on the other end whether or not it "should" be done ;)

Okay, I didn't write down the original frame numbers, so here are the closest images I could get to the frames of my original screengrabs.  A couple might be off by a few frames.  The only shot I left off is that of the opening text, which won't be changing in any drastic way.

Please note, these are from my new "first pass" rendering.  They lack a lot of polish that will be seen in the final product.  The edges of the frame have not been trimmed and the Greedo shot is missing the subtitles.  Also, the noise/grain reduction is at a bare minimum and no sharpening has been applied.  If it still looks too processed, I'd be more likely to attribute that to GOUT than my current script.  I'd also ask you to wait for an "in motion" video sample before passing too much judgment ;)

These screengrabs DO include revised color and levels settings.  Thanks to Harmy and zombie84 for the additional input.  I've lessened my desaturation of the red channel and made a few other tweaks.  The image is now (in my opinion) a touch brighter, while still reducing the over-clipped whites.  And the corridors of Tantive IV are not as blue, though admittedly more blue than GOUT.

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6454/bdx20000.jpg

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8902/bdx40000.jpg

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/37/bdx50000.jpg

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/518/bdx60000.jpg

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3417/bdx70000.jpg

http://img860.imageshack.us/img860/530/bdx90000.jpg

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/9921/bdx100000.jpg

I don't have any updated screenshots yet, but here's a sample of the damage that Video Enhancer was doing.  It's not major, but now that I know to look for it, it stands out.

http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6742/badtk.jpg

I'll try and get some new screengrabs posted within the next day or so.  I've also changed the scripts several times since my last post, so I'm hoping that does the trick.

Because of the time they are taking to render (slightly over 1 fps on my quadcore processor), I'm doing these new scripts as a "first pass" with minimal noise reduction.  If they're too grainy, I'll work out the kinks on a 2nd pass.

My existing 720p Empire was just an upscale of my Rebellion Collection master AVI, but with a slight increase to the black levels.  It was done through a program called Video Enhancer that I'd purchased via direct-download a few years back.

I was planning to use that program for this project, which would have saved me A TON of trial and error.  But...when I started taking a closer look at the output files, I saw some real weirdness.  The best example I can think of is during bright flashes of white.  The white frame itself and the first frame or two following were riddled with tiny blocks...but not block noise.  I'll see about getting a screengrab to demonstrate whenever I can.

So, I've had to go back to upscaling in AviSynth and VirtualDub.

As for what will be different between my original 720p Empire and the version I'm working on now:

- The new version will hit the aliasing a lot harder.  Those jagged edges are the one thing about GOUT that drives me totally nuts beyond anything else.  But, it will not be done at the expense of overall image detail.

- The new version will no longer have the "accidental sharpening" that occurred in my Rebellion DVD set.  Any edge-enhancement will be done on purpose with the proper script ;)

- The new version will "try" to reduce the major color and white level problems with GOUT.  It will slightly reduce the clipped whites and decrease the oversaturated reds, while still increasing overall saturation.

ThiefCobbler4ever said:

-The Thief and The Cobbler International Cut (Reconstructed)

It's amazing that you mention that.  I just put out a materials request on TehParadox about a month ago for just such a project...but with no replies.  All you'd really need is the Calvert workprint (which was in the "Recobbled Cut"), the pan&scan Princess and the Cobbler DVD from Australia (which seems to be insanely OOP and difficult to locate), and the Arabian Knight DVD from Japan(which I have).

If anyone has those first 2 items I mentioned, I'd love to take a crack at making this happen ;)

ThiefCobbler4ever said:

-Phantasm II Workprint Composite

Sounds like something I might look into around Halloween.  I have a German DVD with the workprint (in low, multi-generation VHS quality), but it's a botched PAL-to-NTSC standards conversion.  Still, unless another source is available...

I really don't have too much running in the way of DNR.  I have a feeling that a portion of the waxiness might have been that last anti-aliasing portion I threw in which was causing all of my difficulties with Empire.

Both it and Star Wars look a little bit sharper as well since I've taken it out of the script...and with no real increase to the jagged edges.  I don't really know why I put that last line in...except that those jaggies really bug the crap out of me and I was determined to pound the livin' heck out of them.  I feel like that old Three Stooges bit where Larry keeps trying to wash the spot out of his jacket and winds up rubbing a hole through it instead ;)

It's weird how different monitors and players can make things look so different.  On my PC, I saw it looking too dull as well.  But, when I played back a test through my BD player, it looked much better.  Since my TV is set to much more neutral color and white levels than my PC monitor, I figured it was a more solid sample.

Hopefully, I can get some MKVs uploaded in the next few days and get some "in action" opinions before I start making additional tweaks.

Well, looks like the 1st AVCHD disc is no longer available for testing.  One of the anti-aliasing portions of my AviSynth script caused some major havoc in portions of Empire...to the point where I think it may have done some damage to Star Wars that I failed to catch.  Embarassing to say the least :/

In any case, I'm rendering a new, pre-color corrected Star Wars AVI master as we speak.  But this script is slow (about 2-3fps at best).  One step forward, two steps back.

Thanks for understanding, Hairy Hen.  I didn't mean any offense to your mixes (which I really REALLY do like).  I went back and forth for a while trying to decide whether or not to include them.  At least it's easy to remux AVCHD in case I ever change my mind...again.  My main concern right now is disc space, but I'll know for sure once Jedi is complete

Since the '93 mix did come directly from the 70mm printmaster and just had extra sounds dumped on top of it

I did not know that.  Is that true for all of the '93 masters, or just Star Wars.  I had just assumed the '93 masters were based on the 35mm mixes...especially when I heard some of the areas where the sound had been stretched to fit the video.

A good example, if anyone doesn't know what I'm talking about, is during Empire.  Listen closely between the end of the asteroid hitting a star destroyer and the commander's hologram disappearing in front of Vader (about 50 minutes in).

By the way, I'll try to post some MKV samples in the next few days.  My PC's in the midst of rendering Empire, so it will also be available for testing in the near future.

The Aluminum Falcon said:
However, I would suggest using Hairy Hen's 5.1 70mm reconstruction audio for this. The 5.1 mix is already set up to sync with the GOUT, so there's no problem there.

I'd thought about it, but decided to go sans 5.1 mixes mainly due to disc space.  Plus, while I think Hairy Hen's 70mm reconstruction is awesome, I felt more comfortable using sources that I felt were 99.9% accurate to the original sound.  Unfortunately, the 70mm mix will always have some discrepencies since the only sources we have (unless I'm mistaken) are mono recordings from within the theater.

Still, thanks for the suggestion.  And, once this project is finished, people are free to remux it with any audio they choose :)

RedFive said:
Yeah that poster is pretty awesome, did you make that yourself?

I wish I could take all of the credit.  The picture is Frank Stockton's "Luke's Destiny" print.
http://blog.mondotees.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/StocktonBlog.jpg
The starfield is one I did in Photoshop about a year ago that I seem to keep altering and recycling for all of my SW projects.  Guess I'm just lazy that way ;)

ChainsawAsh said:

Really?  I have never seen the theatrical cut on DVD anywhere.  And I hate all the CG/animated/whatever comic book stuff they added to the DC.

 Here's a link on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Warriors-Michael-Beck/dp/B0000541AM/ref=sr_1_5?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1301860710&sr=1-5

It was one of Paramount's earlier DVDs, but thankfully still got 16x9 treatment.  Sadly, it's now OOP :(

I finished downloading last night with no hang-ups.  Thanks again, Zion ;)

 

TV's Frink wrote: 16:10?  That's like one more than 16:9! 

...

I need a new tv.

We all do.  Wait till they realize they could have gone to Eleven.

Wow, imagine how cool a 16:12 picture would look!

Now that I think about it, a bunch of my movies are already formatted for 16:12.  The industry really needs to start making TVs in that aspect.  It'll be the wave of the future!  We can call it...SUPER DEFINITION (or SD for short)!

I think you should consider making this 4D project in 16:12 =)

That may be the greatest thing in the history of the Star Wars franchise!  If this is pulled off right, I'll never watch those ugly theatrical (yuck) cuts again.

Looks like every Star Wars disc I already own is about to become a coaster.  And those LaserDiscs will make AWESOME coasters!

Ditto that...and thanks to you as well, g-force.  Your scripts have proved invaluable to this community ;)