Octorox

WheresBlackhawk said:

I'll try to keep this shorter than my first post.

I think there are a lot of good ideas being passed around here and I like the free exchange of ideas.  It really helps get the creative juices flowing.  Before anyone goes off on a scripting tangent, maybe we should try to get some concepts clarified.  That way we have some common ground from wiwhich we can start.

My two biggest questions are:

1.) Who are the Jedi?

I always felt that the depiction of the Jedi in the PT had nothing in common with how they were spoken of in OT.  Jedi should never be bad-a$$es.  They are supposed to be calm and at peace and only use the force for knowledge and defense.  Remember that Luke was an exciting Jedi, but he was always on the edge of falling to the darkside.  We need to see Jedi in their prime.  We should never see Obiwan swinging his lightsaber like Conan and killing a creature like in AOTC (the force is created by ALL living things...that implies sanctity of ALL life).  I think one of the greatest challenges for the writers is to create and action/adventure story about characters that are NOT about action/adventure.  Should they be more mysterious?  Should there be a council?  Considering how they are thought of in OT.  Should they be discredited as well as terminated by the end of film three (similar to the Templar Knights)?

2.) What is the Clone War?

If this project is starting from scratch, than this is where we need some starting point ideas.  I like the idea of the first movie being pretty much stand alone like Star Wars was.  Should this movie be the impetus of the Clone Wars (like the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand, the sinking of the Lusitania, or Pearl Harbor)?  I figure it should still be engineered by the future Emperor, but should blame be laid on the Jedi?

I know everyone has their own ideas, but if these questions are solidified BEFORE anyone starts scripting, I think it will help the group effort.

I think the Jedi should be spread about the galaxy and the council should only meet when something really urgent happens. I don't like the idea of the Jedi being so closely entwined with the Republic. I think they should have their own interests and form a loose alliance with the republic when they feel a disturbance in the force.

Vaderisnothayden said:

TheHelmetDork said:

Grievous was pretty much wasted, I thought.

There seems to be no logical explanation for Yoda and Chewie knowing eachother...

But they should have had Palpatine act a bit more mature.

After he struck Yoda down at the beginning of their battle, he stood there as if he was laughing like some bratty little kid. I now laugh at that scene because it looks so screwed up.

The portrayal of Palpatine from his showdown with Windu onwards was awful. Overdone painfully. The Emperor in ROTJ was over the top, but in a way that worked. ROTS's equivalent didn't work. Painful hamming, awful makeup, ruined character. He was so fucking annoying too. The Yoda-Palpatine fight scene was thoroughly lame all around. And it was shown simultaneously with the awful Mustafar showdown, so we got a double dose of awfulness. Complete with extra-pompous music. Terrible filmmaking. So much work was put into that Mustafar scene and it was built up so big and it was totally uninvolving bullcrap. The worst part was probably Anakin ranting, which came of like a pissed off two-year-old trying to do Bad.

 

The Emperor was poorly acted in ROTJ. Conversely, his lines in ROTS were god awful. I'd argue that he didn't "work" completely in either movie.

Okay, does anyone know where the cue for the elevator scene is supposed to start? I'd like to incorporate it into my edit.

Moth3r said:

negative1 said:

do a look through the newsgroups, and music boards.

i've been doing this for over 15+ years now.

You weren't kidding.

negative1/zer0: annoying people for the last 15 years.

 

I don't see a problem with he posts

He can space them however he wants

It has always given his posts a certain signature tone that stands out.

its conversation, not formal essay writing

later

Octorox

ChainsawAsh said:

The PT should most certainly include Anakin's story, but when you start talking about depicting Anakin's turn to the Dark side, you enter dangerous territory with respects to the reveal in ESB (whch I think MUST be preserved).  The best way to go about it is to have Anakin start acting under the Darth Vader moniker as basically a Jedi hitman, but you have no idea that it's him - the Darth Vader thing is going on parallel to Obi-Wan/Anakin's story.  You get hints that Anakin isn't quite a saint, but the real "turn" happened long ago and it's really just about the breaking down of his cover as a Jedi, which culminates in Obi-Wan discovering that Anakin is evil (but not that Anakin *is* Vader), then he confronts him and apparently kills him.  The lie in ANH could just be Obi-Wan covering up the fact that he killed Anakin, which would alarm Luke quite a bit.

Then toward the end of Episode III, Obi-Wan confronts Vader in full suit and armor, but by the end of the duel, Vader says "You taught me well, Master" or something to that effect.  Giving Obi-Wan another student that blatantly turned evil as well is basically a fake-out to the audience, who assumes "Oh, so Vader is _________!" until ESB.

Also, for someone watching this new saga from I-VI will assume it's all about Obi-Wan until his death in IV.  You don't realize that the through-line for all 6 movies is really Anakin's fall and redemption until ESB.

It also makes sense, then, as to why Vader's role in ANH is much less than his role in any other film (including Anakin as "Vader") - you think he's just another villain from the first time you see him, rather than being a major protagonist who all of a sudden turns into a villain with 25 minutes of screentime in the next movie.

I definitely think Anakin should at least be a bit younger than Luke in the first movie. There needs to be more time to show the Empire's fall. Maybe like 15 or 16?

astromech said:

Perhaps you'd have Anakin acting as a renegade Jedi wearing armour not dissimilar to Vader's eventual setup. That way, Vader simply slips into lifesupporting armour based on his look rather than be given it for no apparent reason when he is beaten by Obi-Wan. Since GL swung the emphasis onto Anakin/Vader, then make Vader a bigger part of the myth, as if he is a separate character and push the suspicion off him until ESB. That way Obi-Wan could fight Vader as he implies in ANH and right at the end, when Vader is beaten you could have him revert to Anakin for a brief moment that allows Obi-Wan to discover who he is...?

I do agree that you should have Anakin's story, but have it not so projected as it was throughout the PT...it was almost like 'here's a good boy, wanting nothing and giving everything. But wait, he's exhibiting signs of darkness and he's starting to wear dark clothing so he must be a bad person now.' You need to have a certain amount of ambiguity to tie up enough with the original trilogy and the revelations it reveals.

 

I agree. He shouldn't back and forth from good to bad like in the prequels. He should be ambiguous and internally conflicted.

OzoneSherrif said:

Don't need no Qui-Gon. Original script just had Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan actually pretty much acted like Qui-Gon and talked like him. if i remember correctly.

Remember back in ANH Od Ben mentioned Owen not wanting Anakin getting involved with the Clone Wars. Aunt Beru remarked that Luke was not a farmer he had too much of his father him in and Owen was like "that's what I'm afraid of". There was a lot of familiarity there. Maybe they were brothers. why couldn't they be?

Vader would have no reason to go there if he had no knowledge of his offspring. And his brother was of no importance to him.

Qui-Gon could be replaced with Yoda IMO to show Ben's uncomfortability in training Anakin. However, Yoda and Ben/Anakin would have to be separated with no communication for a long length of time. Otherwise he could just go to Yoda for help. In the original trilogy he says something like "I thought I could do as good a job as Yoda, I was wrong" (sorry paraphrasing here)

TMBTM said:

No takers, huh? lol

I guess we just trow ideas for now. I think that, if we really want it to be made, we need to have some of us to write complete stories (I mean just 2 or 3 pages, not real scripts). Then take the best ideas for a final story that please everyone. That would be a good start.

But franckly, making hours of good, coherent, CGI movie would required an incredible amount of time and coordination efforts that I am not sure we can achieved, even with all the best intentions.

But maybe we can focus on making a nice short movie that shows some good ideas of what could have been the prequels, I don't know.

Who says it has to be CG. It could be 2D animation or even stop motion animation.

ChainsawAsh said:

I still think everyone here is being WAY too tied down to the prequels as they are.  If we do this, we really need to start 100% from scratch, as if we're George and crew writing this in 1983, just after ROTJ has been released.  Not "What if Qui-Gon is the villain in II?" - instead we need to be thinking "Do we need Qui-Gon's character, or can Yoda or even Obi-Wan himself fill the role of the mentor?"  Instead of "How can we make Naboo's Gungans less annoying," we should be thinking "Okay, let's set this on Alderaan, focusing on Bail Organa and his daughter," or something to that effect.

Let's pretend the prequels never happened and write our own!  If we don't do that, what's the point of animating three whole movies from scratch?  Just edit the prequels if you just want to change things.  If you're making three whole movies yourself, why wouldn't you scrap everything you've seen and do it *right* instead of trying to fix something that's irreparably broken?

RE the droids thing, hey, if they work into the story we create, awesome.  But if you try to force them in there just because you feel that they should be in every movie, then you sacrifice quality for fan service, and that's what we're trying to avoid after the fiasco that was the prequels.

I agree with you there. It can't be approached like an edit. The problem is that I think the character of Qui-Gon is necessary. I suppose I'll draft up a story idea soon. I personally think the prequels should fully show Anakin's rise as a jedi and fall from the dark side. It should be a complete study of character as he matures and just how he becomes Darth Vader as we know him in the original. The grander, more detached and theatrical tone of the prequel's is the best way to show the Empire's rise to power as well as Anakin's fall IMO. I think George should be given credit for making bad movies out of good ideas.

hmmm....I still think Anakin should start off as a kid, because it shows the whole "blank slate" kind of thing. He's that young and he's incredibly powerful with the force and we can't make out his future. I can't stand Jake Lloyd's performance though. He'd need to be more of a silent genius type character. I also disagree with getting rid of Qui-Gon. While I'd like to find a way to make the statement "master Yoda, the jedi master who trained me" true. I also think Obi-Wan need to be unsure and shaky as a master and constantly looking up to a person for guidance who is no longer with him. Qui-gon is the master Obi-Wan wants to be. It's really hi-lighted in Genndy's Clone Wars series where Anakin is upset with Obi-Wan and tells him "you're no Qui-Gon Jinn!" However, I think Qui-Gon's character was incredibly underused in the prequels and there should of been some ghost scenes where Obi-Wan is unsure in training Anakin and shouts to the heavens for Qui-Gon's help. One thing I think should have been in Episode I is Tyrannus's rise to power in the separatist movement. He's not there at all in I and were just supposed to accept him as the villain in two. Palpatine should help him rise to power in Episode I through scheming and trickery while sending out Darth Maul essentially to be killed. Palpatine instead of creating the Confederacy, would simply see opportunity and grasp it by manipulating Tyrannus.

Jay said:

You could remove encryption from all DVDs today and the number of discs being ripped to hard drives by tomorrow would have increased by exactly zero percent.

Anybody who has any interest whatsoever in "backing up" their DVDs or having a media server is already doing it. Not one consumer--not a single one--who doesn't understand that you can rip DVDs would be interested in ripping DVDs if they knew they could. And the same is true for Blu-ray.

We're nerds, dude. We get this stuff. We need this stuff. They don't.

I disagree. If say, iTunes, had a DVD ripping feature to get your movies on your ipod I think a lot of people would rather do that than rebuy them from the itunes store.

I'd have to disagree with ChainsawAsh on many points. I think that most fan-fiction and EU either takes itself too seriously or is too "fan-serving". The movies are a balance of action, drama and comedy that would need to be achieved. I believe 3P0 and R2 need to play a prominent role in every movie. Chewie not so much. I also think a good core 70% of Lucas's basic prequel story was correct and I wouldn't dream of changing it. I don't think the Jedi should be little known and detached from society in the beginning.  They should be rendered that way by the rapidly changing republic under the control of Palpatine who eventually positions the Jedi as "out of touch" and threatening the Republic's unity. more on that later

I got so excited I wrote an idea for an opening crawl :) As you can see it uses Lucas's basic good ideas while changing things to fit the OT more.

For thousands of years relative peace and prosperity has pervaded throughout the GALACTIC REPUBLIC. However, in a dark corner of the galaxy, a storm is brewing. Several star systems have seceded from the Republic and formed a GALACTIC CONFEDERACY. In a bold display of power, this warlike conglomerate has attacked the peaceful planet of Alderaan. Sensing a strange disturbance in the force, Jedi Knights OBI-WAN KENOBI and QUI-GON-JINN have been dispatched by the Jedi council to investigate the situation...

ben_danger said:

thats a shame.:(

 

the whole MIA thing scares me. i know its off topic and a bit morbid, but if any of us just died noone would know, its not like we have family to inform forums, or we even use accurate names half the time.:P i mean, does anyone know what happened to the phantom editor?

He's just not fan editing anymore. He has an actual career in the industry

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1633716/

Check out "Two guys drinking at a bar" on youtube. start with ep 1 and watch a few. It's by the Phantom Editor and it's very funny.

ben_danger said:

we have used SW:R on the cinema screen at our university, and will definitly do it again soon, but to a wider audience. if anyone is within a wing of PLYMOUTH (UK) you are welcome to come.

 

ady, did you say you were going to release a colour corrected ESB before the final thing? if so, any idea when? it would be great to use that for the same cinema! 

 

has anyone seen ADM/editous ESB and ROTJ edits? just want to know if i should get hold of them as alternatives for the showing perhaps. i know if i watch the 2004 ESB ill just be thinking; blue blue blue.....

Ady's color corrected ESB is already released , check the AVCHD for PS3 thread

mrbenja0618 said:

So, I mention the Storybook version of my edit, and this is what it could look like:

It took me awhile to get this effect right. Like I said; I will release this version with the standard version, but what I like about the storybook edition is that it really blends prequel shots with classic trilogy shots because it all looks animated...

What does everyone think so far?

very cool. I'd try a few different filters though. maybe some artificial page texture and desaturation?

the effect looks better on yoda than obi-wan also

Thundercracker said:

I'm a bit confused on all these HD sources. So if one wanted to use an HD source for a project would the German rips be the best? That seems to be the case but I just want to make sure.

yes. I believe the Wookiegroomer releases (which are mainly sourced from the German broadcasts) corrected a few small artifacts using other sources but they are still more compressed than the German sources which are uncompressed broadcasts rips about 20gb per movie in size.

Jar jar fits as a character IMO, he was just overused, he stole the focus of every scene. Grievous is worse, there is no character there. I agree that the PT broke the rules in a lot of places though. Sci-fi and fantasy, need something to ground the movie and reality and it wasn't there in the PT IMO. I also have no problem with the virgin birth. It's great symbolism IMO and it expresses Vader's character psychologically a little better. He never had a father which is one reason why is son is important to him.

TMBTM said:

I don't like that. I think it's important to show the conflict in him.

Well I understand, but I think there's enough scenes to show the conflict (the few lines that follow that scene for exemple). It is also important to show a darker side of Anakin. Once Obi-Wan is not there, he is not afraid to let his anger free. By the time of episode 3 we can assume that Palpatine already have a strong influence on him.

I agree with cutting "I shouldn't" but not the long pause and the manipulation by Palps. That's a great scene. In the edit I'm working on I cut "I shoudn't" but not the rest of that scene.

csd79 said:

Hi

Anyone know about  a torrent tracker where the German Boradcast files are still seeded? I'm in Hungary and my ISP doesn't provide Usenet acces.

 

thx

2nd. if someone could PM me. I'd prefer not to go through Usenet

Savage said:

Ziz said:

The only time trailers have music from elsewhere in them is the early ones before the film has a proper score to pull music from.  The music is as much a part of SW as any other element.  It wouldn't feel right to change it.

Your first statement is simply not true.  Countless final trailers feature music from different sources and not the movie directly.  There are even composers/companies out there who create scores just for trailers (ParodiFair, for example, though I'm unsure if they're still in the business).  The music of Star Wars is epic and is instantly recognizable as Star Wars in any context.  It just isn't an absolute necessity in EVERY modern Star Wars trailer.  Look at the trailers made for the defunct Star Wars: Reborn trilogy.  Not Star Wars, but very effective.

I'm thinking more along the lines of some obscure instrumental metal tracks, not a piece taken from another movie's score.  Hell, even a track culled from classical music would be nice.  Just not something easily recognizable, or beaten to death ("Carmina Burana" anyone? - I could live a long, healthy life without hearing that in a trailer ever again.)  Most of the epic Star Wars cues have already been use ad nauseam in the trailers already out there.

Obscurity is the key.  You cannot plunk down a Star Trek track or any other instantly recognizable track in the background of a Star Wars trailer.  That wouldn't sound right.  Something less known is needed to make the whole two minutes gel.

Ah, the hell with it.  I need to learn some video editing and I could show you what I mean.  Now to learn how to edit, that's the real trick, isn't it? :)

 

All right. As long as it's not "Requiem on a Dream" ugh....

skyjedi2005 said:

I loaned out my 2004 set to my soon to be sister in law's nieces.  I am not even going to ask for it back it is garbage.  I have my gout and that is probably the best i will ever see the movies i grew up with.

I have them also in fanamorphic for when i buy an HDTV 16:9 set.  There is no increase in reolution however with them being upscaled to anamorphic.  When there is no further information in the picture source.  From an outdated telecined source d2 master tape that is 16 years old, you can't expect much better than laserdisc resolution and 4:3 Letterbox. 

Some Laserdiscs were released as anamorphic Star Wars was not one of them.  It also was never released on the japanese imuse format that was playable on the X-0 or X-9 players.  You know the first hdtv video discs that were 1080i and less than stellar.  Most tv broadcasts in HD 1080i are better looking.

You should definitely check out the GOUT Image Stabilization project. It at least removes a lot of the dupe grain and other image problems.

Moth3r said:

Example of what Avisynth can do to restore 8mm film:
http://www.vimeo.com/2823934

WHOA! o_0

darthmunky said:

For Episode III, the duel between Anakin and Count Dooku, I like the idea of what this guy did. At the end, when anakin cuts off Dooku's hands, he instantly cuts off his head without thinking. Check it: http://youtube.com/watch?v=V6_dxW4NpDU

I don't like that. I think it's important to show the conflict in him.

AxiaEuxine said:

I havent seen a prequel edit Ive liked, everyone takes a damn machete to the films and your left with a mess. The only ones I like are where the deleted scenes are reincorporated back into the film.

The prequels had far to much exposition to begin with. The audience doesn't need to have every single thing explained to them five times over. The phantom edits are the best prequel edits IMO, the edits are smooth and invisible and the commentary is really insightful. Of course, if you are 100% with the films as they are then there is no need to be watching such edits.

A good edit will look at the Director's story and try to communicate it in the best way and most clear way possible. The best edits are invisible. You don't go away from the movie saying "man, that was some great editing". you go away saying man, that was a great story/characters/movie. The edit simply frames the story without boring or puzzling the audience.