Obi Jeewhyen

User Group: Members
Join date: 1-Aug-2006
Last activity: 1-Feb-2007
Posts: 440

Post History

Post: #234288
Topic: What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234288/action/topic#234288
Time: 11-Aug-2006 9:55 PM

The L.A. crowd that fills Graumann's Chinese on opening nights reacted best of the three to Attack of the Clones, perhaps feeling it was a major improvement over Episode I, perhaps reacting to the genuinely StarWarsian goofiness of it.

It remains to this day my far-and-away favorite of the prequels .... but, tellingly, I can't so much as sit through it nowadays.

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Post: #234279
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234279/action/topic#234279
Time: 11-Aug-2006 9:12 PM

Originally posted by: TiptupThe original Star Wars (which I often feel dirty calling “Episode 4” or “ANH”) is and always was my favorite movie of all time, but I do believe, as standalone films, that Empire managed to improve upon the Star Wars narrative to a notable degree. Despite not being as meaningful a film on it’s own as Star Wars was and continues to be, I believe that Empire is still a better film considering everything overall (the “saga” perspective).

As part of the saga, I've come to appreciate Empire a bit, but I find it totally unworkable as its own single film. It's episodic rather than linear, it's dark in tone and monochromatic visually, and it's self-referencial to its own story rather than universally referencial to classic myth and retro-moviedom. I highly doubt the style of The Empire Strikes Back would have struck nearly the universal chord of belovedness that greeted Star Wars had the stylistic order of the two films been reversed.

With the tone and color pallette returned to brightness for the final installment, I came to somewhat appreciate the middle-episode darkness and somberness of Empire ... but my initial poor reaction to the film has never quite left me (and I have many other, more specific, problems with it still).

Say what you will about the "Luke I am your father" reveal and major plot turning-point ... it never got the respect of, say, M. Night's The Sixth Sense. While there seemed to an unspoken and universally obeyed compact not to reveal the truth about Bruce Willis in that film, the word that Darth Vader was Luke's father was gushed by everyone, everywhere within moments of the film's release.

And despite the obvious linguistic clue in the name Darth Vader, I never liked making sweet old Obi-Wan Kenobi out to be liar. It just never sat well with me. And once Lucas threw in the kitchen sink of making Leia part of the family, too ... well the whole thing just got too Dickensianly juevenile for me to swallow. (You can imagine how well I took to C3PO being created by Anakin Skywalker. I retch as I type the words.)

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Post: #234198
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234198/action/topic#234198
Time: 11-Aug-2006 3:04 PM

Well, I am much relieved and heartened by the reaction ... surprising to me ... of not being villified, burned at the stake, or otherwise shunned for my unorthodox Star Wars preferences.

Most of the Star Wars fans I know in real life, and there are lots of them ... even the ones who saw the original in '77 ... prefer Empire uber allis.

While I don't want to get all into it now, in relation to a post above, I want to say one thing about Empire that bugs me (out of, oh, 53 things total). I don't think Darth Vader works well as a villain without a human foil - be it Governor Tarkin in SW or Emperor Palpatine in RotJ. He may have the wonderful voice of James Earl, but he's still doing pantomime behind a mask. Without use of the human face, the ability to give a performance is severely stunted, imo. I also think he works better as the classic knee-breaker for the main villain (as is his role in the other two O.T. films) and that his Empire style of killing subordinates right and left works well as a running joke, but hardly makes him a scary villain (again, imho).

Sorry ... enough about Empire. I could go on all day.

I like many things about each of the O.T. films, but - yeah - I'm basically a Star Wars Star Wars fan.

Originally posted by CO
I can always watch that movie in reference to how it was presented in 1977, and don't think about the stuff after it, and the stuff before it. I can say because I saw it in 1977, I am not tainted by the constant story changes by Lucas which has really denegrated it to the younger generation fans who really miss the point of the whole story.

It sure would be a whole lot easier for me to watch Star Wars as a standalone, with no reference to anything but how it was presented in 1977 .... if the movie hadn't been changed to start off with "Episode IV - A New Hope." Substandard or not, bogusly re-created or not, I'm looking forward to the September release of the DVD version without the sub-title linking it to a later series of films.

I've stuck with this fandom because I've enjoyed, to greater or lesser extent, most of the subsequent films*. But mostly because my fandom has been reinvigorated and renewed by the insane line-ups for the Hollywood premiers - - the unbelievable fun and the very cool friendships developed. The movies may be uneven, but the Star Wars fans I've met and befriended have been remarkably great peeps.

* ok, except for Revenge of the Sith which I loathe with all my soul. (Its one good effect being to make me look more kindly upon The Phantom Menace in comparison.)

Post: #234030
Topic: OOTCon
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234030/action/topic#234030
Time: 10-Aug-2006 9:21 PM

Yeah, you just have to get your hands on the print(s). It's not impossible.

But, as I went thru in another thread, rental of the illicit print(s) and the venue with equipment to show them, is a fairly expensive proposition. Since the event must be kept private, and even fairly on the down-low so as not to alert LFL, even having your "guests" pay admission is not going to be a break-even deal.

Any rich benefactors around here?

Post: #234026
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234026/action/topic#234026
Time: 10-Aug-2006 9:15 PM

Originally posted by: CO If ESB was pretty good, I would probably only watch SW '77 and as Luke & Han get their medals, that would be my closure, and the rest of the sequels would be just that.

Well, I for one, usually think of Luke and Han getting their medals, and that's my closure. I like SW'77 soooo much more than any of the others that I often consider it a standalone film. The fact that Lucas made up the main story of the saga (Vader being Luke's father) after the first film, and conflicting with dialogue (and thus the audience's truth) as presented in the first film, I have a pretty easy time thinking of the sequels as non-canon offshoots ... despite their pedigree.

I happen to think the emotional thrust of Star Wars is messed with if Princess Leia is Luke Skywalker's sister. She's not. Not in that film. And I like avenging his father as Luke's motivation for hating Darth Vader. That's the plot I fell in love with, as did millions around the world. In SW'77, Leia is the hero's legitimate love interest, and the hero's father was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader, a pupil of the hero's mentor. Oh, and the Princess' name is pronounded "Lee-ah." (I'm surprised George didn't dub in the new pronunciation for the Special Editions)

Heheh, I don't know why Lucas had to go that far in changing things from the previous film, but the changed plot points alone are enough for me to negate the authenticity of the sequels, when it pleases me. Which it often does.

It also helps, as I now confess and then run for cover .... that I am the world's only megastarwars fan who ... wait for it .....

.... doesn't like The Empire Strikes Back.

And, yes, I realize what a pariah that makes me.

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Post: #233989
Topic: Luke VS. The Abominable Snow Man/Wampa in ESB - oddly enough, the wampa didn't hit him in the face
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233989/action/topic#233989
Time: 10-Aug-2006 6:49 PM

Originally posted by: auraloffalwaffle
Luca$h will, no doubt, revisit this scene and "improve" it for the next DVD release. Maybe digitally alter the angle of Hamill's head so that the Wampa catches him full in the face. And add a custard pie.

Maybe he could just digitally alter Luke's face throughout the entire film, to look exactly as he did in Star Wars ... and, ya know, eliminate that whole Waampa business altogether!

Post: #233987
Topic: any plans here for the 30th anniversary?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233987/action/topic#233987
Time: 10-Aug-2006 6:46 PM

Well, we got around that because it was a private event. Tickets could not be sold to the public (and hence, there weren't enough sales to pay for the theater and the print. Bah.)

Post: #233984
Topic: any plans here for the 30th anniversary?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233984/action/topic#233984
Time: 10-Aug-2006 6:40 PM

A friend of mine was on the verge of renting a theater for his own birthday to show Star Wars. He had the print lined up, the theater lined up, was charing everyone about $10 ... but the deal fell through at the last minute because he still would have had to cough up a ton of money over ticket sales.

I wish I could remember the exact dollar amounts involved (this was about 4 years ago) ... but my exiting impression was that it was prohibitively expensive. Heheh.

Post: #233934
Topic: Luke VS. The Abominable Snow Man/Wampa in ESB - oddly enough, the wampa didn't hit him in the face
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233934/action/topic#233934
Time: 10-Aug-2006 3:31 PM

I'd really like to know the truth, 'cause one of things I always hated about Empire is my (perhaps mistaken) belief that the beginnig of the film was written to overcome something that happened to an actor in his personal life, rather than to serve any legitimate story purpose.

Frankly, it looks to me like Hamill suffered far more than a broken nose, and that his fairly drastic difference in appearance was certainly noticeable ... perhaps even requiring some sort of explanation in the film.

Either way, I don't like the opening ... and I might be more forgiving if it was not there simply to explain Luke's messed-up face.

Post: #233923
Topic: any plans here for the 30th anniversary?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233923/action/topic#233923
Time: 10-Aug-2006 2:09 PM

Being that Celebration always seemed to happening during the line-up for prequels, not to mention in some godforsaken mid-west location, I've never been.

But with it coming to L.A., I'll have no excuse.

Post: #233778
Topic: any plans here for the 30th anniversary?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233778/action/topic#233778
Time: 9-Aug-2006 9:54 PM

I'm gonna bake a cake.

Star Wars anniversary cakes are a personal favorite geek tradition of mine, dating back to a wonderful event in 1983 - - the night before the L.A. opening of Return of the Jedi at Graumann's Eqyptian Theater in Hollywood. We had been in line a week and were getting slap-happy. The night before the opening was the Sixth Anniversary of the opening of Star Wars, and so we baked a huge sheet cake which we decorated (figurines and all) to look like the 1st Star Wars Birthday Cake that was featured in tons of advertising.

The cake was huge, and we put it on a rolling dolly. At that point, the line for Jedi stretched completely around an entire city block. So we'd roll the cake around a bit, light the candles, have everyone in the vacinity sing "Happy Birthday Star Wars," blow out the candles .... proceed a little further down the line, and repeat. There were about 8 singing stops and, once back at the front of the line, we carved the thing into tiny slices and fed almost 80 people!

Such Geeky Fun!

Post: #233775
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233775/action/topic#233775
Time: 9-Aug-2006 9:42 PM

But is George's artistic arc that different from the natural arc of many artists' works, or of many people's accomplishments, or of most human lives?

American Graffiti and Star Wars in the 70's giving way to The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith at the dawn of the next century is, to my mind, a deterioration in talent and skill.

But is it so far off from the natural order of growth and decay that colors most lives, most accomplishment and most art on this planet? I heartily applaud artists who can continue to produce great works for decades, in their old age as well as in their youth. But how much should we chide George Lucas for not rising to that rare and lofty level?

In fact, I personally don't chide him for (imo) losing his talent - but rather for betraying his legacy (or for being fool enough to not know when he is betraying his legacy).

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Post: #233768
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233768/action/topic#233768
Time: 9-Aug-2006 9:17 PM

I must point out that, whether deserved or not, Star Wars fans have a reputation for being socially inept, borderline-retarded geeks.

I am honored to know dozens of die-hard Star Wars fans who do not fit that description at all ... but have also come across many who fit the stereotype to a "T."

I might also suggest that Lucas has had contact with or information about only the geeks who are star-struck or fantatical enough to have tried to get in contact with him, tried to break into Lucasfilm headquarters, or bothered him or his minions at public appearances. I would not be surprised if he has a skewed vision of Star Wars fans ... though I most certainly fault him for not bothering to find out the truth ... that there are tons of such fans who are wonderful people that can function just fine in society, will indeed have sex with their girlfriends, and don't need to press a button on their stormtrooper costume to have their mother come pick them up.

Post: #233748
Topic: Original Trilogy DVD Article in Total Film
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233748/action/topic#233748
Time: 9-Aug-2006 7:35 PM

OMG, the Love Conquers All version of Brazil is such an object lesson in how a film can be totally perverted. It was brilliant for Gilliam to want it included in the set. A running commentary makes excellent points on how a film can be edited to ruination.

Hail Gilliam for including multiple versions of his ground-breaking film in the ultimate set of Brazil. And I might never have seen the much better non-American release of this film if it were not for this great set of discs.

All filmmakers should follow his example - - whether or not it was "the studio" or themselves that decided to alter the film everyone saw in theaters. As Mike O eluded to above, filmmakers should not be afraid to put their money where their mouths are ... and allow audiences to compare the version they now prefer with the version they subsequently claimed to be inferior.

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Post: #233692
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233692/action/topic#233692
Time: 9-Aug-2006 4:25 PM

Furthermore, if Scorcese and Scott had gone on to make only pure crap after their earlier triumphs, I would hold them in the same artistic and business disdain I hold Lucas.

And yes, it's my mere opinion that the prequels suck. That's what we express around here, our opinions.

And yeah, the prequels made a ton of money. But perhaps there would have been a few hundred thousand less Yoda Pepsi cans left over if the films had actually been well-received as opposed to preordainly viewed. (In other words, even more money to be made if the films had actually been good. Funny how almost everyone saw them, but almost everyone also hated them. Yet saw the next one and the next, and hated them all. And I use purely anectodal evidence for my claim of "almost everyone.")

Then again, perhaps it was capitalist genius to put the Star Wars names on films that otherwise would have sunk like a stone. I don't exactly fault George for this. Who among us could resist packaging something in such a way that would guaranty movie-admission paid by every living, breathing soul on earth?

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Post: #233646
Topic: Star Wars duels: lightsabers & the force!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233646/action/topic#233646
Time: 9-Aug-2006 2:30 PM

Because Maul was so utterly undeveloped as a character, he had zero menace in my eyes and thus the duel with him was hollow. It had some cool choreography and some great music, but it was empty.

I'd have to put the RotJ duel between Luke and Vader as the most visceral. The way it was filmed & edited was really quite fantastic, and the dramatic build-up to the fight was on-the-money. Music, camera movement, choreography, effects, drama, performances, shot composition ... all of it came together quite nicely.

Which leads me seemlessly into the biggest opening night crowd reaction in the entire series (in case you were wondering from my post above) .... the moments where Vader is deciding whether to kill his son or his master ... well, even though everyone knew what the outcome was going to be, you've simply never heard anything like a theater of 1500 people all screaming at the top of their lungs. It was wonderfully intense.

(And kinda reminds me of the destruction of the Death Star in Star Wars ... in that everyone knows it's going to happen from the very opening crawl of the film, yet audiences erupt in honest cheering due to the excitement generated by that moment in the movie. That this happened time and again in theaters .... in Nineteen Freaking Ninety Seven when the film was already 20 years old ... is a testament to the greatness of the original Star Wars, imho.)

Post: #233438
Topic: The lost song from Jabba's palace
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233438/action/topic#233438
Time: 8-Aug-2006 9:53 PM

Nope, I think I know the piece he means ... and it wasn't on the RotJ 2-disc set (which had by far the most previously unreleased music).

Sorry, that doesn't help much in actually finding it. And it's possible I'm wrong about the RotJ set. (but i don't think so.

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Post: #233433
Topic: Star Wars duels: lightsabers & the force!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233433/action/topic#233433
Time: 8-Aug-2006 9:47 PM

But the more outlandish the "skill," the more silly the duels become for me. For the most part, I liked the choreography of the Episode One duel. But everytime Obi-Wan did some effortless 30-foot leap, I cringed.

I'm afraid I have the same problem with the telekenesis. Once cave rubble and huge machinery starts to fly, I have to wonder why they even bothered with lightsabers to start off with. That's not to say that some of the lighting wasn't cool in the Attack of the Clones duel, or that Yoda's bouncing-off-the-walls antics didn't produce the second biggest opening night crowd reaction I have witnessed in the entire Star Wars saga.

But looking cool and being cool are too often at odds when it comes to light saber duels, it seems.

I have come to the conclusion that big is not more. Much as I like many elements in all the duels throughout the series, I find myself pleased the most with the duel so simple as to offend the least ... the near primitive show-down in the original Star Wars.

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Post: #233429
Topic: Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233429/action/topic#233429
Time: 8-Aug-2006 9:30 PM

I simply can't agree with that. Oh, I have no problem laying off George as a person. But as an artist and a businessman, I continue to hold him in complete contempt. Not possessing the type of mind to adequately create the art that so much intense effort and money went into ... well, there's no excuse for that on an artistic or business level.

If he had failed at a finger painting, I could willingly sluff it off as the artist having a bad day, or not the type of mind to dabble in digit art. But multi-million dollar motion pictures involving countless manhours of thousands of artisans, as follow-ups or purported enhancements to some of the most world-renowned and near-universally-beloved films ever created .... well, I cannot and will not excuse a sloppy mind for botching that so horribly.

It's his right to do it, of course. But just because a thing can be done doesn't mean it necessarily should be done. Many a man has failed to make that distinction. But rather than give George a pass for succumbing to what so many before him have succumbed to, I hold him in the same disdain as I do those whom he will join in the 13th circle of despicably bad judgment hell.

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Post: #233375
Topic: SW Saga in 20 Minutes - Show in London
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233375/action/topic#233375
Time: 8-Aug-2006 6:45 PM

Hmmm, I really enjoyed the one-man show "Star Wars in 30 Minutes" - a great comic performance of the original trilogy. But I don't know if the pace required to do all 6 in less time would be too manic for fun.

Oh well, unless they come to LA from the UK, I'll never know.

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Post: #233319
Topic: Lucas saved face as director?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233319/action/topic#233319
Time: 8-Aug-2006 3:59 PM

Yep, the first bad prequel could have been brushed off as rusty-skillz. But two subsequent movies simply cemented the fact that George Lucas has become one of the worst film directors ever.

Post: #233304
Topic: Quit Whining
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233304/action/topic#233304
Time: 8-Aug-2006 3:10 PM

To my knowledge, TCM has never shown the complete CE3K, though I have not watched every single airing (but, pfft, enough of them).

I think Duel is available in Europe. Heheh, if you have a region-free player, I think you can get it through Amazon UK. Maybe.

Oh, I agree that Spielberg's treatment of Close Encounters is different than George's treatment of Star Wars.

It's worse.

George believes in the changes he makes. Spielberg added that whole 'inside the Mothership' scene that he personally hated just to appease the studio into allowing him to make the changes he really wanted.

George is releasing a substandard quality version of his original 1977 film, perhaps with recreated elements such as the opening crawl to approximate what existed in 1977 (and, yeah, likely ignoring all the soundtrack differences as irrelevant.) Spielberg has never released, and as far as I know, has no intention of releasing the original 1977 version of his film, in any condition whatsoever. And the Criterion Version which claimed to be original, with Spielberg's blessing, was not.

Yes, very big differences.

As a filmmaker, Spielberg is light years ahead of Lucas. But as a self-censorer and second-guesser, Lucas is actually less objectionable. (Gadzooks, I can't believe I have to say that, but it's true.)

Post: #233300
Topic: How the prequels should’ve played out:
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233300/action/topic#233300
Time: 8-Aug-2006 3:00 PM

Oh, and to atone for my continuance of the derail ... I will say that I agree almost wholeheartedly with canofhumdingers' comments re the ESB lightsaber duel.

The thing that wrecks it for me, and wrecks the Force for me in general, is all that wonderful control Vader exhibits over the entire duel is mocked and made pointless when he reveals that, at any time, he can simply start throwing brick-a-brak around with his telekenesis. Pfft, why have duels at all?

Sorry, but I hate the telekenesis aspect of the Force that was grafted onto it for Empire Strikes Back. Kinda makes things a little too easy, if Jedi have to power to move all objects at will. What would they need lightsabers for? Or any other skill for that matter? It's too easy, and too cheesy. Personally, I'd like a little less Carrie in my Star Wars.

But I guess that's just me.

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Post: #233297
Topic: How the prequels should’ve played out:
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233297/action/topic#233297
Time: 8-Aug-2006 2:53 PM

Originally posted by: TiptupHeh, the only tv-to-movie transition that has ever practiced my ideas (that I know of anyways) was Cowboy Bebop the movie. ... It was perfect way to translate the real feeling of the show.

Heheh, I think another perfect TV- to-movie translation was way-back-when with Star Trek: Wrath of Khan. The absolute essence of the TV show translated to the big screen, and never achieved again despite a slew of subsequent movies.

Interestingly, the New Beverly Theater here in L.A. is running "Wrath of Khan" and "Serenity" as a double feature later this month. I'm going.

Post: #233292
Topic: george lucas is so stupid!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/233292/action/topic#233292
Time: 8-Aug-2006 2:46 PM

I haven't been around here long enough to be tired of such things, but in a forum dedicated to the original Star Wars trilogy, I would respectfully suggest that tolerance be extended for expression of sentiment hostile to the denegration of the original trilogy via special editions, special special editions, substandard prequels, and disrespectful home video releases.

These topics are going to come up time and time again, as long as this forum exists - and I would hope that fate could be resigned to with dignity and acceptance.

I may not agree with the way BadAssKeith expresses himself, but I do agree with many of the things he has to say. I realize it's probably all been said before, and likely with more tact and civility.

But there's something to be said for straightforwardness. Because if discussing George's stupidity is beating a dead horse, that doesn't change my belief that Mr. Lucas is that dead horse's ass.

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