NeverarGreat

As I understand it, a movie not having ‘tight’ writing doesn’t mean it has plotholes per say, just that it isn’t as efficient with its scenes/dialogue/plot as another movie.

I don’t have an opinion on if ANH or ESB has tighter writing, since they are both incredibly efficient with the amount of character/plot progression per minute of screentime. Even ROTJ is fairly tight in terms of bringing the Luke/Vader relationship to a conclusion.

I think a good example of flabby writing would be Anakin/Padme in AOTC, where they have a half-dozen scenes which don’t move their characters forward at all in the eyes of the audience. Another is the Exegol plot from TROS, where our characters go to four or five locations just to find a mcGuffin while barely developing as characters at all. But again, the problem is a lack of character progression per scene, not necessarily how flabby/nonsensical the plot becomes. Tight writing, in this case, does not equal a tight plot. Fury Road has a simplistic, borderline stupid plot, but it packs so much character work into each scene that one would never call the writing flabby.

It’s also a funny line.

jedi_bendu said:

Besides, the opening crawl says “first major victory”. I didn’t expect the Rebel alliance to have had absolutely no success against the Empire before that, I just expected it to be smaller victories, which is what we see in Rebels.

What?

It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.

And yes, you could lawyer your way out of the victory on Lothal, but that’s weasel words.

The point is that I can’t imagine they will hold to a single brief line from a less-than-popular movie if it means keeping the main character out of the show.

Heh, you think I remember this movie?

Anyway, I feel like it’s a bit like ‘Their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire’, which got thrown out the window in Rebels.

They could send her on some early missions, then have her stick to the base later on to train under Leia.

Mandalorians in the OT and PT are only cool because the Mandalorian culture hasn’t been established yet, so they by definition don’t act like Mandalorians.

Mandalorians in Clone Wars were a pointless waste of episodes except for that one Mandalorian who doesn’t act like a Mandalorian.

Mandalorians in Rebels are almost entirely pointless, except for a single episode: ‘Trials of the Darksaber’ where the Mandalorian doesn’t act like a typical Mandalorian.

Mandalorians in The Mandalorian are worthless except for the one Mandalorian who is gradually deprogrammed from his cult of Mandalorians.

In conclusion:

This guy has been making custom sabers for years. Can you imagine how cool it would have been to have a brief scene where Rey fixes Luke’s saber and reveals these inner workings?

Sure, they would have had to buy one of these, but 7,000$ would have been lunch money for TROS.

I love this place.

I love the people here.

I love occasionally necrobumping a thread.

Have a wonderful evening everyone, and may we meet again on the morrow 😃

Jar Jar Bricks said:

“A guy who is part of a space nazi government, has blood on his hands, including killing children, first time seeing his son battles him, chops off his hand, then potentially murders one of his best friends. Tries to prevent him from escaping the planet so he can brainwash him into a nazi as well.
Year or so later son decides that his father is actually a great guy deep inside.”

Sorry, couldn’t help myself haha

The difference is that one person believes that there still exists humanity in this damaged shell of a man, the other seems to think this is prime boyfriend material.

JakeRyan17 said:

So, you want to cut the character development out? That doesn’t make sense.

Luke is very clear about what he did and why, and SparkySywer did a great job summarising it.

Except that Luke’s reasons for exile are

1: He feels guilty about almost killing Ben/failing his new order

and/or

2: He thinks the Jedi are fundamentally flawed due to letting Palpatine rise under their noses and being vain about using the Force.

Both of these reasons amount to Luke ‘running away’ because in none of them does he draw a clear line between his power and the rise of the Dark Side.

As to this cutting out the character development, this is supposed to be Rey’s story in the first place and it merely streamlines the theme of Luke’s failure rather than complicating it with flashbacks and lengthy explanations that threaten to lose parts of the audience. If you need paragraphs to explain a secondary character’s motivations in a Star Wars movie, you’ve failed.

jarbear said:

Hal 9000 said:

Dawn of the Rise of the Skywalker: Justice Ascending

Why am I imagining Rey having a mustache that’s been digitally “shaved”?

“Rey Superman”

Hal 9000 said:

Dawn of the Rise of the Skywalker: Justice Ascending

Slap that on the film and there’s no need for an edit.

The original crawl has an ABA structure and Across the Stars would work for the B section, but it would need something more energetic for the A and C sections.

JEDIT: This would have been a perfect place for a “Republic” theme which could have morphed into the Imperial March theme throughout ROTS.

Anakin Starkiller said:

NeverarGreat said:

I agree, and I recall John Williams wanted to do the same.

Source?

You know, I remember reading it somewhere but I have searched for 30 minutes and can’t figure out where.

Obviously it will be the Neew Republic.

Corridor were exactly right in noting that it was performance that was primarily off, not the technology. The new Luke actually emotes.

I agree, and I recall John Williams wanted to do the same.

GMatias said:

NeverarGreat said:

Further thoughts on changing The Force Awakens to serve TLJ, I could place some of the footage of the Raddus going to hyperspace into the destruction of the Hosnian system.

It might be going too far to show Holdo staring out of the window at the approaching lasers, but even placing the TLJ ships in the distance going to hyperspace in this shot would help.

If we see Holdo in this sequence, then the only dialogue necessary for the previous scene would be ‘General, the Republic is scrambling the fleet to assist us’.

Not sure if you ever got around to doing this, but I banged out a mockup of this idea tonight using the HAL9000 Hosnian destruction sequence as a base.

https://vimeo.com/503989106

Wasn’t until rereading the post just now that I realized I explicitly have Holdo looking out the window at an approaching laser (!) but I think it still works 😃

Interesting mockup!

I hadn’t really committed to doing this change, but I think anything more than a quick shot of frightened officers on the bridge of the Raddus would be too much.

Agreed. Pointless and distracting.

In the behind the scenes talk, the original creators of that game talked about how they recreated it in stop-motion as if it was a continuation of the board state from ANH. And it’s charming and fun for the creators I’m sure, but after learning that I actually like the scene even less since it presumes that nobody ever played another game on that board for thirty-five years and that’s just incredibly depressing.

A most impressive endeavor!

I agree with you, NFB, there’s no ‘right’ way to tell a story, and no story is going to appeal to everyone.

But TLJ is fascinating to me personally, because whereas the failings of TFA and TROS are fairly transparent, this middle chapter seems to have issues which are unusual, and no single explanation seems to fit. I think this is why there are so many essays and videos and complaints about it - a lot of people feel like something’s off, but nobody can quite articulate why in a way that’s satisfying.

There’s only so much to say about a film like TFA. Citiques can’t go far past the unoriginality of the Starkiller and the soft reset of the universe before coming to the realization that the substance of the film has turned to dust. Even solving some of the more surface problems, as I have tried to do in my edit, has made it less interesting to watch. It’s a case of superficial flaws obscuring fundamental flaws. TROS is even worse, to the point that I firmly believe that it is held together entirely by the audience’s bemused fascination with its logical absurdities.

TLJ however has a lot to say, and that makes it the only one that I feel is deserving of critical deconstruction. This is getting into my personal reasons, but I want to be a better writer and storyteller. The Last Jedi tells a story, but if I can’t see why it is disliked by so many people, then I might make the same mistakes.

This is not to say that TLJ is in need of fixing. Artists should be able to tell stories the way they want, even if it’s polarizing. But as a writer I would rather appeal to people than polarize them, and I apologize if people get the impression that I’m just ragging on TLJ because I don’t like it or don’t think its creator is worthy of respect. The reality is quite the opposite.

Nice

ThisIsCreation said:

Since ANH, We have had constant “good star wars moments” that get broken in time.

Why was there an intentional flaw in the death star and no one noticed.

Why did obi-wan not tell luke he had a sister, it’s not like it would ruin any plan, matter of fact it would make luke care more about saving her.

Why didnt Vader feel that he was literally in scenes with his own daughter and never felt a glimpse of the force.

FTFY

Yes.