NeverarGreat

Shame. It is a good joke.

Ed Slushie said:

it’s not the most creative

Can understatement be so extreme as to become art?

PM Sent!

I can easily see amendments written which would destroy democracy, like making the Chancellors term in office, and his practical power…unlimited.

Spielberg is so consistently good I’d believe just about any film from his filmography could make this thread. Well, maybe not 1941…

I feel like it’s one of those things which fits the data while also being entirely antithetical to the original intention of the concept.

https://imgur.com/gallery/ViBroKV

Interesting take on the Force.

These are wonderful. My girlfriend even read the first one aloud 😃

PM Sent 😃

Sure, PM sent!

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I have tried to keep the first post updated with only the latest changes.

@hinvention, PM sent!

PM sent with both versions if you have a specific comparison in mind.

I’m unsure why he gave the sled skis instead of repulsors. I mean, sure, it has skis on set, but that’s presumably just so it could be pulled around. I don’t see any greebling on the skis and in universe, it looks like it would use standard speeder technology.

That’s quite the breakdown! I don’t think I’ll be able to respond directly to every point you raise, but I’ll do my best. 😃

Also, please keep in mind that any critiques I may have are coming from a place of admiration, because I’ve really enjoyed everything you’ve written between each draft and I like seeing it improve. I actually think it has gotten better with each draft!

Aw thanks. Looking back at where it started, some of the ideas seem quite bizarre, but it’s all grist for the mill I guess.

Lol, really? You haven’t played Knights of the Old Republic? Sorry for spoiling the game for you then!

Don’t worry, I’m not an avid gamer so I probably won’t play it, despite hearing such good things.

When thinking about my own rewrite (or at least my ideas for a rewrite), that’s what I try to think about when it comes to what to do about all of the characters. Kind of like with Poe, when you look at TFA to TLJ, clearly we see a hero learning to become a leader, so in IX, we have to see that come to fruition, and him becoming that leader has to be his arc.

Ironically, TROS touches on all of these things, but in the most surface level way possible, so it is nice to see in your version these things take center stage, rather than afterthoughts to the Palpatine goose chase.

Poe definitely needs to become a leader, and taking Leia out of the equation early on will definitely help with that.

Speaking of which, I’m curious if you are keeping the spirit possession stuff in the next draft. It is a compelling idea, but as I’m reading it, I do feel like it leads you into similar problems with just having Kylo unconscious for an act of the film. It feels like we’re not really getting Kylo, or feeling his character a lot. It’s like he’s being overshadowed by whatever is possessing him. Kind of like when I read the DotF, it’s hard for me to picture Adam Driver acting out some of those scenes.

From the sound of your new conflict between Rey and Kylo, I’m guessing not. I do love that conflict, by the way! As the filmmakers have said, IX was always meant to be Leia’s movie, but with her death, unfortunately she could only be in it so much. The idea of writing her out of it tends to be a common idea, or she dies really early on, which does happen in your previous drafts. But, the idea of making the central conflict for Rey and Kylo revolve around saving Leia is really interesting. For one, it’s a great parallel to Padmé, and a nice way to mirror that conflict. And I can see it having interesting
meta narrative implications.

Yeah, I was feeling the same thing about Kylo and the possession. I’m not even sure that Snoke will appear in any form in this next draft, to further focus in on the primary cast. I think that the Snoke possession had become basically the Palpatine plot and had become the very thing I swore to destroy.

When it comes to Kylo, or the Stormtroopers, or the Officers, the important thing is that as they align themselves with our heroes, that it happen at a believable progression. I know we only have one “movie” to work with, but I feel like there needs to be some kind of setup -> buildup -> payoff. This was something I wasn’t too fond of with your initial drafts, because it felt like the stormtroopers and Kylo aligned themselves ideologically with our heroes rather quickly. What you did with your following draft, where Finn’s big speech didn’t work, was rather amusing and kind of goes in that direction of what I’m talking about.

Plus, slow progressing these relationships are a good way to maintain conflict between the characters. The longer they have ideological differences, the more they can challenge each other in each scene.

For example, I think there is a lot of great potential with the officers like Ventess (I keep saying “Ventress” in my head, lol), especially to butt heads with Poe. I like the idea of the officers being harder to really “join” the Resistance than the stormtroopers. Maybe they’re really only helping them because they have their Supreme Leader prisoner, and their loyal to him and not to Hux. But this gives Poe and Ventess time to talk about why they believe in each other side, and eventually they come to some mutual understanding.

The Ventess character name was really a placeholder and I only realized after a few chapters about the similarity to Clone Wars. She would have been a diehard First Order adherent who sold out our heroes to Thrawn until realizing her mistake deep into act 3, if she did at all. She’s the embodiment of a person that can’t be convinced no matter how well the heroes roll persuasion.

I’ve talked about this before in other threads, but I felt like a missed opportunity of the ST, that could’ve set it apart from the OT, was to show the “reunification” of the Republic. Sure, the Rebels restored the Republic, but the Empire, and even the First Order, came from the Republic too. At the end of the OT, it seems like they just tried to get rid of the Empire, but the Imperials were still there. It would be interesting if through the understanding between Poe and Ventess, it leads to some kind of peace or reintegration of the two factions. But then again, maybe that doesn’t align with what the political allegory should be for this film.

I do like the idea of a reunification theme, but as with the Ventess character, I feel like there are too many lifelong fanatics in the First Order to really save it. The conversion of the Stormtroopers is about as far as I think is reasonable to take the idea of peace, and any conflict with the old guard would almost certainly end in a battle to the death of one side or the other. At least that’s my gut feeling on the faction, and I don’t think I’m talented enough to make true reunification feel organic on the page.

But more on Kylo, I do think something that would be beneficial to the story would be if Kylo didn’t just flip from bad to good. I like the idea of Kylo having to work with our heroes a little reluctantly, whether be as a prisoner or what, and he still has his own goes, but as the story progresses, he might learn from the other characters and realize how he has been wrong. I know your new draft is gonna have Kylo it in more, but that is a definite issue imo with your previous version. I feel like there is a few missed opportunities to have Kylo interact with the various characters of the Resistance. But even when he is working with them, I like the idea that he still has his own agenda. Like, he believes after they work together to take down Hux and his traitorous Knights, he’d be able to retake control of the galaxy again. So in a way he still is a bit of an antagonist even if they are working together. And I feel like that bad-to-good shift shouldn’t really happen until the end of Act 2/beginning of Act 3.

I agree with that. There’s no version of a future draft where Kylo turns completely good by the end of the story, and at best I think he will find some peace while it is implied that he will work for years toward atonement.

Again, I’m just thinking out loud. Obviously they don’t have to be this way. Just suggestions that I think can help make the story more engaging up until the climax.

Speaking of engaging, maybe it is more of an issue because it is written word rather than visual, but I do feel like I personally lose a little interest during the simulation runs. I know it is sort of necessary to acclimate the two groups, but I feel like the stakes aren’t as a high as they should be, for the final film in the saga, since they are just practicing. Then again, this time does allow our characters to interact instead of chasing senseless MacGuffins.
But maybe it is just because I struggle keeping up with the action of space combat when it is just prose. Maybe it would help if there was B Plot with action, maybe Hux and the Knights chasing leads and destroying Resistance cells, while the A Plot were our heroes prepping for the final battle or whatever. That might help raise the stakes of their predicament.

The simulations are definitely an idea that has lost some luster upon further rewrites for the reasons you say. It’s definitely more of a Star Trek idea, and in fact I watched a DS9 episode soon after writing version 1 that did almost that exact thing, much to my amusement. So yes, as much as I like it in theory, it’s best left for a Star Trek story.

And maybe you did this and I just skipped over it, but I guess what could help raise the stakes is the fact that the bulk of the Resistance, and the only piece of Kylo’s First Order faction, are on this single ship. One ship amongst a galaxy full of overwhelming enemies and scattered allies. And this one ship could become a microcosm of what the galaxy could the potentially be: A unified people, despite their differences.

You’re right, Kylo’s fleet was actually made up of the ships which were sliced up in the Holdo Maneuver and then pieced back together in the months following. I don’t know if I ever described the Shattered Fleet by name or where it came from, but it was to be a visual representation of the scars of war, with Kylo’s destroyers all having nasty weld marks across their hulls like scars, and it is one of these ships which the Resistance captures. The rest had been sent back to the Supremacy, which in canon has docking bays for quite a few Destroyers and in this version of the story is in the final stages of repair.

You’ll see the full First Order armada near the end of the treatment you’re reading, made up of ships new and old. My thought is that the First Order used its new ships in TLJ to chase down the Resistance, while it had many older ships in reserve which were enough to exert its will through the rest of the galaxy. The First Order in this way is actually quite fragile in its forces, casting a threadbare net over the galaxy so to speak.

But, I don’t know know how much else has change in your newest draft, so much of this may be totally pointless! Anyway, I hope you don’t mind me rambling on like this. Definitely do what you want to see. This is your rewrite after all. Maybe these are some suggestions that can get your creative juices flowing, but I’m excited to see what you have regardless if you use any of this or not!

I don’t think it’s pointless at all, I’m just super happy that some value has come from all this thought and effort. It’s also quite fun to toss around ideas, and I’m feeling better about some of the ideas for the next draft now that you’ve sort of echoed a lot of my thoughts.

The big goal for the next attempt will really be in focusing the story down to its fundamentals, and really hit the two themes; the major theme for Kylo and Rey of letting the past die, and the minor theme for Finn, Rose, and Poe of saving what they love.

PS: It took me awhile to write this post and I’ve since read the dance scene. I wasn’t sure what to expect with the festivities, but I really enjoyed it actually! It was a good moment for our characters to bond like normal people.

Glad you liked it! This is one aspect which I really want to delve into in my next draft, namely the ensemble aspect of the story. Looking back over the entire saga, there really hasn’t been a film to truly commit to the ensemble, instead either focusing on a single character or small group, or splitting up a larger group to focus on individual stories in a single film. I feel like ROTJ suffers from this the most, since Han and Leia are practically non-characters by Act 2 as the story focuses on Luke. This works, but only just, and it’s one of the things that has driven this rewrite. I want the final chapter of the saga to grow beyond individual characters and truly make the story a group effort where every character is instrumental. Perhaps it’s unrealistic and overambitious, but it continues to be my goal.

Glad you are giving it a read! Let me know what you think of the big dance number 😉

Personally, I felt like any ‘what if’ story should have to confine itself to the limitations of what could be filmed, so Leia’s part was always going to be brief. It’s a constraint, but an important one to me.

I actually have never played a Knights of the Old Republic game(!) but I’m sure the situation of dueling on a sinking ship is something that has been done so many times that it has become a trope, and none the worse for having been done again 😃.

The Finn Stormtrooper angle feels like the heart of this particular treatment to me, so it was going to be introduced as early as possible. In fact, the idea of centering the story around the hijacking of a Star Destroyer, with the ship becoming the primary location, was what drove me to work on this angle. None of the previous films have focused on the interior layout of the ships or had plotlines happen within them, so I felt it was time since they’re basically like cities in space. From a tactical perspective it’s actually quite crazy to even attempt taking such a large vessel with a force as small as the Resistance, so I’ll admit I got quite lost in that space and realized that I could devote an entire film to that and ignore the bigger story.

As for the larger story, I think a coup is almost essential for this to work; Hux vs Kylo is a drama that deserves to be brought to the fore, and Hux must prevail at least in the short term since he did so much failing in TLJ that he absolutely needs this win early on to rebuild his reputation. Hux deposing Kylo needs to happen no later than the end of act 1.

In my first versions of the story, I had Kylo suffer grievous wounds and be incapacitated for an act, but in thinking more on this I realize that Leia being so incapacitated is the logical solution. I was initially averse to it due to it being so similar to TLJ, so the best thing to do is acknowledge this event and perhaps build off of it. For example, Leia is secretly dealing with an inner wound sustained during her trials in TLJ, which leads to her passing close to death in act 1.

Finally and most importantly, there’s Rey. I’ve spent the most time wrestling with her story, trying to simplify it to its core essence. Right now, I believe that Rey’s most pressing concern must arise from the end of TLJ and her grappling with having no place in the story and being unable to let go of the past. She finds all of her value in Han, Luke, and Leia, these legends of the past to whom she’s desperately attached. When Leia’s health fails, she begins to lose the last connection she has with this past, and therefore feels like she will have no place in this story if Leia dies. She believes that Kylo is solely responsible for Leia’s condition and she will do anything to save her, even if that means turning to the Dark Side to save the ones she loves from death.

Kylo, strong enough with the Dark Side to possibly save Leia’s life, cannot do so without violating his determination to let the past die. Rey cannot let go of the past enough to overcome this dark temptation. Both of them must change, but in opposite directions. Ben must save the past, in the form of Leia’s life. Rey must bury the past, in the form of her need for a great and legendary family.

This conflict is the core of my next treatment.

That’s a cool concept! I’d definitely like to see what can be done while keeping in the style of the original effects.

I think Jar Jar is an important part of Episode 1, especially since he’s designed to be a contrast to the weird uptight Jedi and the weird uptight Queen. However, it would be really cool to see him redubbed as less of a comic relief character and more of an example of a typical person in this galaxy thrust into these strange situations. Essentially he is the barometer for judging what is ‘normal’ and this version of the character would have him comment on the strangeness of the Jedi and the stilted nature of the queen, the broken nature of the Senate and the insanity of war. His quest is just to get back to something approaching normal in his life.

It’s really weird though, to think of a dagger pointing like a compass towards only one of two wayfinders, and the furthest one away at that. I assume there are two wayfinders as a callback to the rule of two, as if both master and apprentice would have one of them in days of old? I don’t know. So what if Kylo gained the Apprentice’s wayfinder at the beginning of the film, but the Master’s wayfinder was still to be found? That way the dagger’s purpose would make sense as a way for Sith cultists to travel back to their master wherever he would be at the time:

“Only two grant the way to Exegol; Novitiate and Master. Attune with the spirit of the Sith and passage to the Master only this blade tells. Only this blade tells.”

Or better yet:

“Only two grant the way to Exegol; Novitiate and Master. Anoint thy spirit in darkness and passage to the Master of the Sith this blade tells. This blade tells.”

I like the idea that there may have been many blades at one point used by many cultists, so removing the ‘only’ from ‘only this blade tells’ will allow for this interpretation.

Also, just a random thought, but have people considered how it would play for Rey’s pals to know that she basically has to become evil to find Exegol?

Replace all practically realized Stormtroopers in the franchise with CGI to make them ‘fit in’ with the prequels.

JEDIT: Finn will now be a 100% CGI character.

It’s rather funny to think of a scene full of live actors in suits with one early 2000’s CGI clone trooper pasted on top of the footage to complete George’s Vision.

I believe that the only truly IMAX scene in the Sequel Trilogy was the Falcon Jakku dogfight from TFA.

I feel like Restructured already requires us to live with this plot hole since the Senate (the entire Republic as it’s portrayed in the film?) is the obvious target.

My headcanon for rationalizing the lack of evacuation:

-Leia could simply be stating their best guess as to the target, but they don’t know for certain of the target or if the weapon will even work based on its new technology.

-From a logistical perspective it would probably take days or weeks to evacuate everyone from the entire Hosnian system (In reality it would probably take months or years, but I’m being generous).

-It seems that the Resistance has protocols in place that prevent it from simply transmitting electronic communications directly to the Republic to retain anonymity, which is why they sent one of their officers in person, presumably with some course changes along the way. It might take more time to safely alert the Senate of the danger than it would for the weapon to fire, so the Resistance would have negated that option out of hand.

-The film portrays the Republic as run by a bunch of Neville Chamberlains who clearly want to appease the First Order while secretly supporting the Resistance to fix the problem. At this point in the story the Republic should have no knowledge of the status of the weapon unless they are getting intel from the Resistance, so starting an evacuation would be a de-facto declaration of war with the First Order which many in the Senate are desperately and perhaps even illogically trying to avoid.

Leia might even suspect that the First Order is pointing its weapon at the Republic merely to test the anonymity of the Resistance (Remember, they know that Finn has defected to the Resistance with knowledge of the weapon), and Leia is hoping that retaining radio silence with the Republic will be enough on its own to make the First Order accept that the Resistance is truly working alone. This isn’t the fist planet she’s seen destroyed, after all, and in that case Alderaan was destroyed merely because the Empire suspected it to be in league with her. She’s probably desperate to avoid the same mistake, and recognizes that allowing the senators to escape in time isn’t worth the risk of the billions which will be left behind.

…

Whew, that turned into a bit of a novel. I wish there was more in the film about this, but I think these are reasonable extrapolations from the scant details we do get. My change even hints at this, since after Leia names the Senate as the target Poe clarifies that it’s the entire Hosnian system which is under threat.

For anyone who has seen the new workprint, you might notice that the box that I’ve had light up on the Falcon as it takes off is the one which later hangs open when Han and Chewie come onboard. Han then pokes at it briefly and I’ve tried to make it look like he’s deactivated the light, but it’s very brief.

I bring this up because I didn’t realize before that he closes this box on his way out of the room and heads into the cockpit. There is no point at which I can see the box open unless I’m just missing something, and for this box to get the attention of Han twice seems suspicious to me.

My wild theory is that an earlier version of the film actually has this box serve a function in the film as the tracking device since there’s no shot where it opens. I bet that it originally opened at some point during the escape from Jakku and Han may even have had a line about the tracking device when he went to poke around in it. Since Han’s line about finding a clean ship that can’t be tracked was clearly ADR’d, I bet that this was placed in the film to shore up the reasoning for going to Maz’s castle and at that point the tracking device needed to be cut since Han deactivated it upon arriving.

Thank you for coming to my TED talk, it’s been an honor, etc.

Sent!