NeverarGreat

thejediknighthusezni said:

      ^Those are good points.

       An advantage of rethinking education and seeing 16 as a start for vocation training while still home is that there could be more room for "false starts". Any scholarships or grants-in-aid could go towards the final choice. 

       We get the sort of society we subsidize. Non-vital fathers, Over-worked and isolated mothers, kids who blow tens of thousands on sheer time-wasting nonsense...

       I'd rather see kids still at home until 21 instead of back in the basement at 28. They progress to 12 or 13 and then slide down until 21 anyway.

Remember that some people progress at different rates. While vocational training at sixteen or earlier may work for some, others will still prefer more esoteric and technical knowledge.

What exactly do you mean by "slide down until 21"? Do you mean that kids tend to become less focused and driven until then? Again, I wouldn't lump all kids into this category, but I think that people slide down perpetually even after this point.

I'm currently in college in America, and many people are simply there because it is expected of them. It wouldn't matter what subject was taught, or whether it directly applied to their life or not. They simply would not feel that it was important. Some of this I think has to do with the American government. We've been involved in a war in the middle east for over a decade and are engaged in a perpetual and unwinnable war on Terrorism, as well as failed wars on drugs and crime. We don't look to the stars anymore, and our political system is a sad farce. Our financial problems are worse than ever, and our health as a nation is declining. Is this the kind of future that you would want?

If we had a bright future to look forward to, then our students may become more motivated even with our flawed educational system.

thejediknighthusezni said:

AntcuFaalb said:

CP3S said:

I generally consider all undergraduate degrees useless. They are easy to obtain and the market is over saturated with them. Undergraduate education is the new high school diploma, and who hangs their high school diploma on the wall?

I know it's only anecdotal, but I make a six-figure salary + benefits with my useless CS undergraduate degree and I'm only 2.5 years out of university. This is not uncommon amongst computer programmers, IIRC.

Undergraduate degrees are only useless if you choose the wrong major*. I don't think everyone should choose to pursue a STEM degree, of course, but we should be preparing prospective undergrads for the reality of the job market that they'll encounter after graduation rather than filling their heads with the standard "follow your dreams" nonsense.

* None of this applies if one plans to pursue higher degree(s) and/or plans to go into academia.

       People in Germany begin receiving vocational training in "High School".

       I wrote about eliminating all public education before the 11th birthday and replacing it with mandatory testing every six months and tax refunds going to the parent who stays home. 

      These better educated, socialized, and supervised kids would enthusiastically enter the next stage from 11 to 16. Six bad weather months would be spent exclusively on general and practical subjects such as Practical Math, English Comprehension and Composition and Essential Management of Sexuality. The good weather six months would be spent in carefully supervised member-managed clubs for personal interest such as Athletics, Popular Musical Instruments (keyboards, guitars, drums), Science, Advanced Mathematics, IT and Literature.

      The fiction of adulthood at 18 would end. Kids from 16+ to 21 could take-on limited adult responsibilities such as driving and Vocation Education Loans with approval and some contribution from a parent or guardian. Parents would remain responsible for the housing and feeding of these kids to 21. A 20 year old could not be housed away any more than a 17 year old. All vocational and advanced education would be paid for out-of-pocket or with loans until the student graduates AND finds paid work in a field related to his/her degree and only then could the graduate receive any scholarships or grants (this would encourage kids and parents to be very careful and not waste time and money.) Loans would only go to kids of proven aptitude in the chosen field after careful testing and would continue only if the kids are advancing in those subjects. Elementary schools could be converted to community college/votech centers and other facilities could be built within an easy commute. Instructors could travel to different centers. Only kids from very rural areas or in unusual advanced courses would be boarded away. Kids with serious legal/moral troubles would have to go into sex-segregated classes under even greater supervision. The student/instructor relationship would be as middle-school is supposed to be now.

       Before 1950, kids under 21 were sent off to boarding type educational institutions primarily because of transportation limitations and not because it is the best way to prepare these little snips for real life.  

I think that one important aspect of education that has mostly disappeared is the apprenticeship aspect. Most kids don't learn by sitting in a classroom copying information that they are told will be useful and being tested on regurgitation. Kids roleplay. They see adults that they admire on TV, in movies or video games, or in real life, and they model their lives to some extent on this person, or the profession that they are employed in. If they are only ever with kids their own age, then there can be unpredictable shifts in behavior as everyone in the group models their behavior off of that same group, and not off of good role models. With an apprenticeship, there is a much greater opportunity to learn many more aspects of the job than just the technical requirements. You can make connections with people in the industry, learn the personal habits of the person you apprentice under, and get a much better sense of what is to be required of you.

I wanted to be an architect at one point, but then I actually worked for one. I did 3D modelling work for presentations, something that didn't require much architectural knowledge, but I got a good idea of what that job entailed, as well as contributing to society and earning some money. This saved the college system and myself four years, as I realized that I didn't want to be an architect after all.

I never understood the argument that kids need violent video games as an outlet for their hostility. I never played excessively violent video games growing up, other than Age of Empires and Warcraft 2. At least, not that I can remember. I played Myst and Caesar 3 and Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2. I also grew up with two brothers, and we got into a fight maybe three times, tops. Displacing your pent up rage from one aspect of your life to another doesn't allow you to understand why that aspect of your life makes you angry. Violent video games are rather irrelevant to that discussion. It's the failure to take responsibility for one's emotions, rather than the video games, that is the real culprit here.

My connection was choppy as well for a while, but later it evened out and didn't really buffer at all. Thank you Mike for taking the time to share all of your hard work!

Rats, you caught my stupidity before I could change it! ;)

Looking forward to it!

Yes, thank you for your detailed explanation. The new version looks much more natural than the first comparison version (though I guess I've just watched the GOUT so many times that it would take some getting used to).

By the way, in defense of my ignorance, did you know that your thread is over 1000 pages long? ;)

AntcuFaalb said:

NeverarGreat said:

Two of my friends just graduated from a four year university, one got a political science degree and another majored in history. The political science major is in graduate school now for a degree in analytics, and the history major is working at Food Lion.

Questions:

    1  What did your History-major-friend plan to do upon graduation?

    2  What did he think he'd be able to do with his History degree?

I'm interested to know if he had failed plans or just failed to think ahead.

Was he flying blind?

Probably flying blind. People just assume that everything will work out if they work hard and follow their passions, but we all know that this is BS.

The Jedi Worm reminds me of my fear of ET. My parents taped that movie, so it began several minutes in, and was grainy and distorted. This made the movie all the more terrifying, as I had little idea of why this creepy alien was on Earth and what was going on. Seeing the DVD this Christmas was the first time in 20 years that I had watched the movie in good quality, and was the first time I could fully appreciate the artistry of it.

I had to leave the room when Luke was in the Dagobah cave, again because I did not understand what was happening in the VHS version when the facemask blew up and there was some woman's face underneath (I couldn't tell that it was supposed to be Luke).

Whenever I understand what a movie is trying to do, I can no longer be afraid of it. I think that applies to life as well, for fear can only survive in a mind without understanding.

My brother's favorite ship was the Y-wing. We didn't really roleplay Star Wars, or anything else for that matter, we just played with Legos and built our own spaceships out of the official Lego Star Wars sets.

I remember going through the EU phase as well, reading everything Star Wars I could get my hands on. Partway through the Yuuzhan Vong invasion I quit, as it was becoming clear that these books and movies would never stop.

The magic of Star Wars was never in the movies, or the books, or anything else, at least not for me. The movies were fun, the books were occasionally decent, but the magic came from the idea that out of thin air, a universe of adventure could spring into existence that could capture the imagination of the world, and could be so exciting and resilient that everyone could consider that they could live and work there. It's like Minecraft for the mind. You can download the original program, and perhaps the 2 expansions, but everything else is fan-made, and watching or reading it is like looking at someone else's save game. It's much more fun to build your own.

While that's going on...

Does anyone know about a pure voice recording of Leia's hologram transmission? I remember separating the channels from the Wookiegroomer version of the film and pulling out just the voice, which gave halfway decent results, but then I lost the files and that version of the film with a computer crash. I'm sure someone has done this before for work on fan trailers, and if I can avoid all that headache it would be much appreciated.

Two of my friends just graduated from a four year university, one got a political science degree and another majored in history. The political science major is in graduate school now for a degree in analytics, and the history major is working at Food Lion.

FVDnz said:

NeverarGreat said:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690

While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".

Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?

 

That's because the Original Release was blue in the first place.  How people seem to envision the look of Dagobah intending it to be green was a misinterpretation in the first place.  Even Ady has explained this.

All I have to look at is the GOUT, but even there, the haze in the top of the frame is more red than blue.

I think that he did a good (if aggressive) job removing the unnatural green in the foreground, but it introduced an unnatural blue haze in the background. Just look at the top right of the image; in between the vines there is an ugly blue glow that doesn't exist in either the GOUT or the blu-ray. You can't tell me that those vines are supposed to look like that.

@ Frink: I was sort of joking about the graph...shoulda guessed that humanity made it happen.

I guess this makes Han Solo a bigger rule breaker than I thought...

@CP3S: If the degree doesn't suggest the making of something, it's probably not worth pursuing.

History degrees don't make history

Political Science degrees don't make politics, or science for that matter

Liberal Arts degrees don't make liberal arts, whatever that is.

Ben's use of the Force against the Stormtroopers (and then Luke's use against Jabba and co) always seemed to me to be more on the Dark Side than anything else. I couldn't imagine Yoda using the Force to manipulate someone with a weaker mind, as it seems like a "might makes right" ability.

So when Ben basically steals money from the shopkeeper, and then acts all holier-than-thou by claiming that he is above the use of money, it seems horribly wrong. Could he really think of no better way to get some money?

When Ben uses this suggestion to guide Luke's movements on the Falcon, this suggests that Luke is weak minded, otherwise it wouldn't have worked. It also raises an interesting question: If Luke was guided by Ben in his use of the Force, instead of drawing on it of his own volition, does that mean that Ben was guiding him when he made the Death Star shot?

As a side note, the RedLetterMedia commentary of ANH had Han getting a bunch of awkward to use semi-precious metals from the Rebels in return for his services. Turns out that this is exactly what happened in the radio drama. I thought that was funny.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/3690

While most of the corrections are an improvement, this one looks substantially worse. Instead of "mystical swamp", it's "mud puddle with oppressive blue haze".

Does making the Hoth scenes less blue somehow make Dagobah less green and more blue?

CP3S said:

Haha, that is a lesson I just learned myself. Was dating a 23 year old. Way too young for me. 

How young is too young? Is there a graph that plots your age and the minimum required age of the girlfriend? If so, I could use that.

TheBoost said:

NeverarGreat said:

 

By the way, where is the search function on this forum? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Not really. Just google with "site:Originaltrilogy.com"

Blast. Well, it would be good to have, what with all of these good threads getting buried and repeated years later.

I actually found Obi-wan to be much less interesting than he was in the film. In the drama, he sounds like he is a bit tired, whereas in the film he had an energy that is really hard to put into words.

Also I really didn't like the extended training scene on the Falcon. The use of hypnotic suggestion by both Vader and Obi-wan drag down the mystical element of the story for me, and the idea that the Jedi don't use money on principle makes little sense, and comes across as very Star Trek: TNG (though that came later, I know).

Overall, though, it was a fun journey, especially the bits about Leia and the Rebellion.

By the way, where is the search function on this forum? I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Anaokar said:

LOL.  It's addicting, isn't it?  There are so many things that can happen in the SW galaxy, the mind just reels.

 

While I like your ideas for the showdown between Luke and Vader, I have to admit that this was one of the first things I fleshed out when I began writing.  However, the image of the "Hero of Yavin" in shackles broadcast gives me an idea.  Also like the idea of a rebellion in splinter cells.

 

I assume you're back to writing fan fiction then?

Oh, I am fully addicted to rewriting the prequels, but throughout these several years I have operated under the consideration that the original movies are gospel. It almost feels like cheating to rewrite the originals, as hindsight is 20/20, and people have had thirty years to figure out what works and what doesn't work about the originals.

It's been an interesting challenge, creating backstory to a good, yet flawed trilogy. If I were to discard the originals, I might as well write my own original movies in their own universe. Not to say that your project isn't interesting or worth pursuing. It's just part of the fun for me to try and reconcile why Anakin never goes back to Tatooine, despite apparently being from there, or how Han just happens to run into his old friend Lando while he is stranded without hyperdrive, given the vast scale of the galaxy. If you're just rewriting it, it's the easiest thing in the world to fix.

What I'm trying to say is that for me, limitation breeds creativity.

Anaokar said:

I can see you've given some thought to the stories as well.  I like the seeds of corruption in the rebellion idea. 

What have you done? You've gotten me started on rewriting the originals! Is nothing sacred?!

Anyway, here's a more fleshed out permutation of the story:

Luke leaves Dagobah and travels to Cloud City. There he battles Vader, who questions how Obi-wan could have trained Luke so well. Vader then tells him that he is his father. Luke escapes, and then the Imperials impound Luke's abandoned X-wing. From its trajectory, and its condition compared to its trajectory and condition leaving Hoth, they conclude that it must have come from Dagobah, and so Vader travels to Dagobah alone. Meanwhile, Luke and company are rescuing Han from Jabba the Hutt, who is on an Imperial controlled world in the mid-rim, and this is accomplished by activating a pocket of rebel forces on the planet. These pockets of rebel resistance are being organized throughout the galaxy in preparation for open rebellion, and Luke forces the beginning of this open rebellion. Luke then senses an urgent need to return to Yoda. Vader has landed on Dagobah and Yoda, sensing the dark lord's presence, has retreated to the cave of the Dark Side in an attempt to mask his presence in the Force. Vader nevertheless finds Yoda, and Luke arrives just as Vader kills the Jedi Master. Luke enters the cave, and for the second time he sees the figure of Vader approaching him through the mist. He battles the dark lord again, but realizes that he cannot kill a man who may be his own father. He throws his lightsaber to the ground and invites death, believing that his true father would not kill him. He is correct, as Vader deactivates his own saber. Knowing that Vader is his father, Luke knows that he must do whatever he can to save him. Luke allows Vader to lead him to his shuttle, and together they depart to meet the Emperor on Coruscant.

            From Coruscant, the image of Luke in shackles is broadcast throughout the galaxy. The hero of the rebellion, the one who destroyed the Death Star, has been captured. The Rebel leader Mon Mothma decides that the time for open rebellion has finally come for all of the planets of the galaxy, and she initiates the final assault on Coruscant.

From there, the story could continue in a similar vein as Return of the Jedi, but of course it would be cooler to make up something entirely different.

You know how Vader being Luke's father changed everything in the story of Star Wars? I feel like some gigantic revelation of that sort is required for any prequel rewrite or OT re-imagining to be interesting. Anyone can pick apart what shouldn't be in the movies, whether it be Ewoks or Jar Jar or even "But I was going into Toshe station to pick up some power converters!" But at the end of the day, changing these things doesn't change the heart of the story.

What I'm trying to get at here is that it looks like you're trying to go big with your changes. I think you're on the right track. My feeling is that you really need to go big with the heart of the story, make big changes that are risky, but have great potential payoff. I-am-your-father level changes to the heart of the plot, because the worst thing that this project can be is just the same story with some superficial changes and a new visual aesthetic.

What if Luke actually dies in his confrontation with Vader in Cloud City? Would Leia be forced to step into his shoes, and would she be up to it?

What if the rebellion contains the seeds of corruption that destroyed the Republic? For that matter, what is the rebellion even fighting for, precisely? What is its Declaration of Independence, its values and the type of government that it wishes to create or restore?

What if Luke learns that an intergalactic force is preparing to invade the galaxy? Would Luke risk destabilizing the current power system in the galaxy when it is about to be destroyed by an outside power?

Just some ideas about potential radical directions.

Awesome work!

It really makes you appreciate the people who built all of this from scratch for the original movies. Nowadays you could just add whatever you wanted in the computer, but back then you had to buy model kits, and it was very time consuming.

I'd love to see this completed!

(PS, I would love to film this for a Han Solo fan film. I don't have one planned, but just looking at it makes me want to make one)

Count me interested. I'm working on and off on a re-imagining of the prequels, but this sounds like a complete re-imagining of the entirety of Star Wars, is that correct?

What is canon? Is it for example the canon of the original movie, where Darth Vader literally killed Luke's father, or is it Empire canon, where Vader is Luke's father, and Luke's sibling is being raised in secret on the other side of the galaxy, or is it something entirely different?

How developed is the storyline, and are you open to changes in the story?

It sounds like you are passionate about this project. However, if the story loosely follows the original trilogy, wouldn't it be considered a remake of the originals, and a CG/animated one at that? I'm just saying that it may be difficult to gain support for something on an original trilogy fansite that aims to "remake" the original trilogy.

Though I do applaud the decision to dispense with the prequels.

It needs to be holy water, not holey water.

"Meteor hits country with largest land mass!"

*slow clap*

Hey meteor! Call me when you manage to hit the Vatican.

In all seriousness this is rather humbling and serious.