NeverarGreat

"It turns out that your thread here is only mostly dead!"

But yeah, as long as this is being debated again, I'll explain the idea I originally posted here (Post 4)

Anakin's turn should not have happened slowly as people have suggested. It should have been fast, for Luke's near-turn to the Dark Side was fast. It is important that we as the audience not know precisely how Anakin falls only when Luke does, so that we can identify with Luke in the OT and share his fear of the unknown.

The path to Anakin's fall should be subtle, so subtle for the audience watching the prequels that they would at first think it impossible for Anakin to have fallen. It's all in the framing of the story. In Episode 4, Luke displays grief and rage at the loss of his relatives and Obi-wan. We should sympathize with this, not be fearful lest Luke turn to the Dark Side. So the dangers of the Dark side should not be revealed until Episode 5. The prequels show only the light side of the Force, a power without a downside. Naturally the audience would then sympathize with Anakin as he feels anger and as he quests for more power. He has power by Episode 3, yet Obi-wan has failed to sufficiently warn him about the power of the Dark Side, lest it interfere with his development. Anakin's powers are sorely needed after all, and there is no time to do things the "right" way. So Obi-wan fails as a teacher.

Finally Anakin confronts Palpatine at the end of Episode 3, knowing full well that the new Emperor is entirely evil. The Emperor however plays on Anakin's fears, and in his domain of evil, he forces Anakin to fight his own worst enemy, as Luke fought his manifestation of Vader in the cave on Dagobah. This emanation is the sum total of Anakin's fears, and it overwhelms him. The Emperor claims that this mysterious cloaked warrior is the pupil that Obi-wan failed to fully train, and from a certain point of view, this is true. The Emperor gives this figure the most evil sounding name he can think of: Darth Vader, so as to play on Anakin's fears. Finally, as Episode 3 closes, we see a cloaked figure step out from the Emperor's palace, his face darkened and mysterious. We assume that it is Obi-wan's secret apprentice, now revealed as the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. It is only in Episode 5 that we have the information to understand the truth, for when Luke fights Vader on Dagobah, we realize the illusion of Episode 3 for what it is. The Emperor does not try and pull the same trick on Luke because he knows that Luke has already fought most of his inner demons, and only by goading him to anger will they succeed in turning him.

That makes sense. So if there are no truly black frames because of the gain, could part of a frame be used, such as the black areas around the Lucasfilm logo?

The fade-to-black doesn't actually fade to black on VLC for me. It just crosscuts with a green haze or skips some frames altogether. That's the unstable video I guess. But any other point where the frame is mostly black, such as the end of the title crawl, the image suddenly lightens to white. Why would that be?

Just playing around with some frames in Photoshop got the picture looking a lot better. Of course it's not accurate but it kind of shows what seems to be off about the transfer. There's too much blue in the red which makes skin tones turn pink as well as the excess green:

If you have black frames on your end it may be worth searching for accurate color, I'd say.

In the Death Star fight between Obi-wan and Vader, there's one wide shot where they do a really fast back-and-forth. That to me looked like the most realistic depiction of a lightsaber battle. But in all three OT swordfights, there was always one participant who didn't want to end it. In the Vader/Obi-wan fight, Obi-wan didn't want to be aggressive, and it didn't look like Vader wanted to kill him. In Luke/Vader on Bespin, Vader was clearly toying with Luke. And in Return of the Jedi, neither Luke nor Vader wanted to kill the other, so I can understand why the swordfights were slower than in the prequels.

The locations in the OT served two purposes. The first was to establish the reality of these alien worlds, the second was to underscore the themes of the characters inhabiting them. The Death Star as a hollow mechanical construct characterizing the artificial Empire, Dagobah as a miserable swamp yet with hidden secrets and powers as an analogue for Yoda, Cloud City as being both a heavenly refuge and hellish underworld...the list goes on.

The PT didn't really continue this tradition as far as I can tell. If it had, we would have first seen Coruscant as a thriving and enlightened city world, but we would gradually descend to its foundations and see that it was a city in decay, built on slave labor and lies, to suggest the true nature of the Chancellor and the decaying democracy. The clones would be grown by the Geonosans, whose own inhuman growth cycles would be adapted to the task of growing humans, and whose planet was constantly in a stage of starvation or unbounded reproduction. And Mustafar, while acceptable as a mirror of Anakin's inner turmoil, could have been changed to an orbital shipyard where the next wave of Separatist warships were still under construction. Obi-wan and Anakin could battle among the frames of ships being melted down and repurposed to serve the new Imperial machine.

I hope the ST gives us multiple angles of interpretation with their choice of location instead of just the sinkhole planet, the jungle planet, the water planet, etc.

RicOlie_2 said:

In ROTJ though, he wasn't bright enough to realize that he it was Luke who levitated him...I don't know, sometimes he's smart, but other times he just seems a bit slow.

It was probably lazy writing, but to be fair to C-3PO he wasn't around Luke when he was levitating rocks and things with Yoda. So even if R2 had told him about Luke's full abilities, he probably wouldn't have believed it.

This brings up another issue with Luke's powers. Han by his own admission doesn't believe in the Force, so when Luke levitates C-3PO it seems strange that we get no reaction from Han. He actually looks quite happy that Luke's sorcery is working, and then immediately makes out with Leia. Exactly how much power does he think Luke has, anyway?

I like the contrast of that shot, and the softer film look. Both color schemes look good in my opinion, with the latter being a more conservative take on the scene. Getting better all the time!

Attack of the Ridiculousness

The dialogue was top notch, but action scenes do suffer because of the few visual jokes. The musical numbers can go on too long as well.

A vast improvement over Attack of the Clones.

7 Tommy Wiseau clones out of an increasing number of Tommy Wiseau clones.

Aw, you're too kind.

Everything is Illuminated

Elijah Wood is very Elijah Wood, and there's a lot of Awkward formality played as humor. It's a beautiful but slow movie, so It's a cautious recommendation.

Darth Lars said:

No, I think that Yoda being in the PT was absolutely compulsory. Just has Luke is compulsory in the ST. There are too strong hints in the OT to what the character did/will do. I think that more fans would have got outraged if Yoda wasn't in the PT than they are of how Yoda was portrayed.

How about an exchange like this:

Anakin: "I don't understand why we're just waiting here! There won't be a Republic if we don't attack! "

Obi-wan: "Our orders are to stand by."

Anakin: (stews in frustration)

Obi-wan: "It is at times like this that I meditate on what my master taught me, about patience."

Anakin: "You've never mentioned your master before. Who was he?"

Obi-wan: "He was wise and powerful, old even when I first knew him. It was because of him that I became a Jedi."

Anakin: "I'd like to meet him someday."

Obi-wan: "You won't. He was old even when I knew him, living on an uninhabited planet in the outer rim. I was the last of his students. He will train Jedi no more."

That's all I required from the prequels about Yoda. Just a bit of explanation, if that.

BuddhaMaster said:

I hope this project isn't dieing.

I'd really like to see the original BluRay release in a close-as-possible to the original color.

Because in theorie I can live with all the technical additions, but the artificial coloring and tinting is what makes it really unbearable.

So please keep working on it, those screens looked great.

Could there be an estimated release date?

 Don't worry, this project isn't cutting, stamping, or forming as if with a die. ;)

In all seriousness, it's still way too soon to know how long it will still take, in fact the real work is really just getting started in earnest.

Feallan said:

Okay, maybe it's a stupid question, but how this 70mm frame scan isn't cropped? I thought all 70mm prints were 2.20:1?

Well from what little I've read, there were several aspect ratios for the several 70mm filming and projection technologies, but 2.20:1 was standard for blowing up 35mm film for 70mm, at least as I understand it. Here's some 70mm frames:

Notice that there are magnetic strips between the edge of the frame and the sprocket holes, as well as outside of the sprocket holes. These strips held the six channel audio, and would cut down on the available space in frame. Most of the 70mm frames of Star Wars that I've seen have not included these strips, so they were definitely never projected in a theater. They may simply be blowups of 35mm made specifically for collectors, unless they took a print and used it before the strips were added, which I find unlikely. The frame I used above was already cropped, so I don't know if it had audio. Based on the wider aspect ratio however, as well as it's unfaded appearance, I'd say that is not authentic. That's why I like the photo more; I know where it came from. Perhaps someone with more intimate knowledge of the 70mm process can set us straight!

@timdiggerm: You were there? That's so cool! I guess that explains why you're not interested in this - you've seen it already. ;)

NeverarGreat said:

One danger of episodes 7-9 would be to focus on the story of Luke, or (god forbid) Anakin. The story should be re-framed to be about the Skywalker family as a whole, with a focus on the younger generation. Not to say that they shouldn't play a part, but they should never distract from the new leads.

 Reposted because of this.

From the article:

"Arndt is said to have focused on the offspring of Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill), Han Solo (Harrison Ford) and Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher), with the original trilogy heroes taking on supporting roles. Abrams, however, wanted Episode VII to focus on the classic trio of characters, so audiences could have one more chance to enjoy them before a fitting send-off. The new characters, the offspring, will now be in supporting roles, according to these sources, and take center stage in Episode VIII and IX. Some characters have disappeared from the Arndt script and new ones are being drafted."

This is Indy 4 all over again.

Alright msycamore and timdiggerm, how would you determine the most accurate source?

I've got to base these colors on something. First thing I'm basing it on is what these things actually look like, and stormtrooper armor is white. Correcting for that, it seems that the two most accurate sources are on the bottom, and I'll use both when finalizing the color. Neither the frame scan nor the Senator photo look all that dubious to me.

I'm sorry that this stuff isn't interesting to everyone, but I don't comment in other people's threads about how their type of project just doesn't interest me. If I'm interested, I comment. If I'm not, I don't.

msycamore said:

Why do you base your work on dubious photos and why don't you get any support around here? Are they scared?

Simply because I choose to focus on one of the resources at my disposal does not mean that I don't have others. I'm still sorting through the numerous sources this community has provided, and that will take time. The people here are not scared; several have been extremely helpful.

As to why I base the project on "dubious" photos, it's because those photos are what made me believe that Star Wars could look genuinely beautiful. So that's what makes me passionate about this project. They won't be able to help me correct most of the movie though. That's why I'm gathering many other sources to help.

WE can't avoid any flaws in the new films, save from avoiding the films themselves. Only JJ and his crew can do that.

I'm going to buck the trend and say what was right about the prequels: It re-framed the story of Star Wars as the tragedy and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, thus making them somewhat relevant, in theory if not in reality.

One danger of episodes 7-9 would be to focus on the story of Luke, or (god forbid) Anakin. The story should be re-framed to be about the Skywalker family as a whole, with a focus on the younger generation. Not to say that they shouldn't play a part, but they should never distract from the new leads. Of course Luke should return as an Obi-wan mentor type, and I'd even be open to Anakin's ghost returning at the end of the entire "tri-trilogy" and doing some great feat through the Force to truly atone for his past actions and allow him peace. But keep them to peripheral characters.

Another potential pitfall is the overuse of CG. Take the actors to genuine locations and sets, allow them a realistic world that they can interact with and believe in and I will believe in the world with them. I don't think that JJ intends to skimp on the practical effects, but paradoxically this space opera is best when it's effects are down-to-earth.

How did this project escape my attention? There's some good stuff there, it would be good to see the finished product.

I'm definitely going to consult multiple sources for every shot, but rely most heavily on the technicolor sources when available.

The EU is like a side dish that you can order to go along with the main meal that is the Original Trilogy. I hate that I ate so much of it before realizing that fact.

Okay, that actually looks beautiful. The pixelation makes it look like a painting. Photoshopped for you:

No words...they should have sent a poet

Thank you so much for this resource AntcuFaalb, for the most part the colors are great, and it's nice to see that there appears to be more color consistency between shots than even in the Blu-ray.

However I did notice a heavy green in the shadows of most shots in the movie. Sometimes this looks accurate to my sources, but sometimes it seems like fading or something. In your opinion, do you think the film could have been this green, or did something happen along the line?

I've obsessed over the scene of Leia in the Tantive corridor for a long time, but it's because it's never been right to my satisfaction compared to Mike's superb example. Of course there's a reason for that, as is apparent now. The DVD and Blu-ray have crushed the gradients so much that there is now no discernible color difference between Leia's dress, the Stormtrooper armor, and the walls of the corridor. I've pulled as much blue out of her dress as I could, but I don't believe that the colors can be any more precise with this source. So here it is, as good as I can get it, and it's not going to change any more:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/56460/picture:0

There will be different scenes soon, I promise. :)

That upscale test looks really good!