Removed unnecessary characters/details from this scene.
I also hate that ‘ultra-wide lens’ effect this shot has, so I removed it. The horizon is flat!
Oh, I see. You’re one of those “flat Tatooine” nutters.
That’s Flatooiner to you.
Although the scene placement sort of works where it is, it’s not nearly ideal, so I’ve been thinking about a scene which could separate the interrogation and rescue, and have an idea. It would need to be constructed entirely from bits and pieces of TFA and TLJ, but it would essentially be a better version of the Reydream and reveal the night they spent before the action starts in earnest:
JEDIT: Since it’s going to use hand-animated elements for the exterior shots, I can actually use set photos:
Original (Rey painted out):
After such a scene, it might be cool to play with the Finalizer hallway lighting to make it seem like Finn is rescuing Poe during the night shift.
Force ability, in my opinion, shouldn’t be equated to physical training, like you would for a martial art, or for learning the piano.
The Force is based entirely on faith. The various powers have nothing to do with technique. It is all about believing in the Force, believe in it and its will, and also importantly, believing in yourself, because we all are a part of the Force.
It’s about believing that we are more than just “crude matter”. Since these films are meant to be fairy tales for children, then the message of believing in yourself is, to me, is a very important one. That was the same message the OT gave us.
Also, I personally don’t think the dark side should be interpreted as the evil side. The light and dark side are like yin and yang, which aren’t inherently good or evil. The Sith use the negative aspects of the dark side, and their own dark side, to bend the Force to their will unnaturally, rather than allowing themselves to let the Force guide them through life.
Those negative qualities that make people do bad things can be found in the dark side. Those emotions and qualities aren’t always inherently evil, but consuming oneself in those emotions can lead to imbalance.
Not a perfect description, but check out this article about the differentiate between yin and yang & good and evil. Then you can try to apply it to the Force.
http://www.jonasyunus.net/blog-the_yin_yang_of_good_evil
I agree with a lot of this perspective, but I believe that the core of Jedi ‘training’ is in fact the process of learning to believe in yourself and the power of the Force, which is much more emotionally driven than a physical martial arts training process. The emotions which generate the greatest results, peace and calm and connectedness and so forth, are subtle and take time to establish, whereas emotions such as fear and anger are quick and obvious. Things like death and violence, things which are implied to be part of the Dark Side, are actually part of the natural processes of the universe and so they are part of the ‘balance’ of the Force.
To put it another way, the light and dark sides of the Force arise naturally from the life of the universe, and the ecosystems of this life are largely symbiotic and self correcting. Where there is an overabundance of life, death must soon follow. Where there has been a great deal of death a Jedi might feel the presence of the Dark Side, but this is as malevolent as the tree on Dagobah - it merely reflects the fear of those who enter it.
Sentient life, however, is uncoupled from this natural symbiosis and balance. If a person finds an affinity for the Force, they can use it to whatever end they wish, and such a person can be a powerful lever which moves the life of the universe. A single person - Force sensitive or otherwise - can destroy entire planets in this universe, and the Force has no recourse for this except to make itself available to those who will return the balance of the natural living order.
Thus, whether or not there are equal Jedi and Sith, or lightsiders and dark, matters not at all in the grand scheme of things. The first order of life is to live in balance with yourself and all other life. The Sith by their nature led unbalanced lives, but it was of little concern of the galaxy until their power was used to terrible effect. Similarly, the Jedi became through their blindness and arrogance an instrument of terrible suffering, further destroying the balance of the Force. Through a single action, a darksider could restore balance to the Force and redeem themselves, just as through a single action a Jedi could negate all of their noble acts.
After sitting with the previous restructuring for a while, I feel like it’s too much ‘A’ plot exposition to put the intimidation scene right after the Finn/Phasma confrontation. The trouble is, there’s really nowhere else to put the intimidation scene. I tried to place it right after Rey finds BB-8 and follow it directly with the escape, but it also feels too abrupt. The scene has become extremely dramatic in its current form and giving insufficient space on either side really compromises the gravity of the Starkiller visions.
I eventually made a place for it however, by breaking one of the rules. It’s now between Rey’s dinner and finding BB-8, which means that the Stormtrooper helmet transition from Finn to Rey is preserved, and actually strengthened by a pilot’s helmet transition on the other end, allowing Rey to be the symbolic link between Finn and Poe.
Password: fanedit
Some color correction was required in the second half of Rey’s evening to make it feel like more time has passed.
There’s the issue of cutting away from Rey’s story before she is officially linked to the plot, but I think an audience would be sufficiently on board with Rey’s story to be intrigued by where it is headed.
And that would have been perfectly fine if she hadn’t already beaten Kylo Ren with one. Placed after that fight, it feels like ability regression.
One could make the argument that Han has Force powers in TFA.
By one I mean me.
Han has Force powers in TFA.
I’ve always thought Han had the force. Why only TFA though?
Everyone has the potential for using the Force, and it is implied that there might be some weak abilities present in the OT, but it seems like the really impressive ESP has only developed by the time of TFA. I’m sure some training must have rubbed off of Luke and Leia over the years.
I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work.
I’m not sure I understand Nev’s critique, to be perfectly honest. Rey’s moves are unrefined but I don’t find the scene comical at all.
The biggest issue with the scene for me personally is that the lightsaber is treated like a glowing stick rather than a deadly energy weapon. In the other Star Wars movies, characters took care to hold the saber away from themselves, but Rey almost immediately begins toying with it, flipping it around in one hand into an ineffective reverse grip (something that is almost always not done in sordfighting due to its limitations) and swinging it around with no regard for her surroundings, culminating in a complete loss of control and almost killing some caretakers.
So it’s not comical per se, except for the caretaker bit being played for laughs, but it does feel like it should be a strike against her readiness in the eyes of Luke.
He is able to exit Hyperspace between the Starkiller’s shields and the planet’s crust, a feat lifted from an early script of TPM where only Anakin’s Force ability was able to manage such a thing.
And no, the Force has always consistently been something that anyone can learn, but that some have a natural affinity for. That hasn’t changed.
Then why did Rey just suddenly get her powers, without working for anything? It’s explained very clearly in TLJ as the “darkness rises, and light to meet it”. Since Kylo trained for many years to become a dark lord, Rey must get all those powers within a couple days to restore balance (probably because Luke shut himself out).
I’m guessing that Kylo trained for years to become a Jedi, then relatively quickly embraced the ‘easier, more seductive’ pull of the Dark Side to quickly gain more power. The fact that Rey is so easily able to gain such abilities as well would make sense if she were using the Dark Side (and there’s some evidence that she is, such as Luke saying ‘you went right to the dark’), but absent that it seems like she just has more ability than Kylo.
Impressive - most impressive.
Consider the facts:
-TLJ establishes that the Force can arise in anyone, and GL has claimed that anyone can learn to use it.
-Han has spent thirty years around the most powerful Force users in the galaxy.
-He is a believer in the Force and has been for decades by the time of TFA.
-He has always had an abundance of luck, trusts his feelings over his rational mind, and is a quick draw with a blaster even in his early days.
-In ROTJ he shoots the Sarlacc without the use of his eyes (‘Trust me’), and in TFA he headshots a Stormtrooper without looking at him at all.
-He is able to exit Hyperspace between the Starkiller’s shields and the planet’s crust, a feat lifted from an early script of TPM where only Anakin’s Force ability was able to manage such a thing.
Going off of Rogue’s suggestion, I’ve shifted Kylo’s ‘I leave that to you’ from the end of the interrogation to the villager scene. I think it works, the interrogation definitely so by giving some more breathing room at the end of the scene before cutting to Rey.
JEDIT: Also tested the Village attack without seeing Poe give the map to BB-8, and it works really well without even messing with the audio, and since it allows the audience to fill in the blanks for this scene or wait until the interrogation later, I think it’s a good change. While I was at it, I also cropped and color corrected the flickering red saber light before Kylo strikes down Tekka. Here’s the entire thing from the village attack to the interrogation:
Password: fanedit
The one thing I’m not sure about is whether or not to show the destruction of Poe’s X-wing and BB-8 in the desert. On the one hand it’s some nice imagery and provides some buffer between scenes, on the other hand it broadcasts Poe’s plan while the point is to preserve some ambiguity.
Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.
Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.
I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.
The suspense is killing me.
Well, depending on your definition of “semi-major,” I hope you don’t have your hopes up too high:
https://vimeo.com/313568431(keep in mind this idea requires a decent amount of color correction, and this video just represents a rough mockup of that).
I see where you’re coming from with this idea, but for me it wouldn’t really work even if the color correction was perfect - Rey’s lightsaber moves in this scene are so amateurish that it feels like a joke, clashing with the intense music and Luke’s expression. If the music were changed or absent, the scene would actually work well as a humorous example of how unready she is to become a Jedi.
Sounds excellent!
One could make the argument that Han has Force powers in TFA.
By one I mean me.
Han has Force powers in TFA.
Also, I just listened to the commentary and have a question for Hal (and everyone else): When watching Rey tap into the Force and overpower Kylo at the end, do you interpret this as her using the Dark Side, or just harnessing the ‘light’ which has ‘always been there’? I ask this because if Rey were so susceptible to the Dark Side here, that might constitute a very great character flaw and go a long way towards making her a more dynamic lead.
BTW, thanks for the many shout outs in the commentary Hal, you’re really too kind!
Hal, you mention in your commentary that you found Finn’s character arch to be disappointing, specifically referring to the “taken from birth and programmed” part of his history, and that he doesn’t seem to fit that description in any way. I am in the process of watching your latest version of the edit, and it seems it would be possible to edit out those specific facts about the first order storm troopers. It would make his character much more realistic if he wasn’t taken from birth. It could be reasoned that he only partook in the first order out of fear. Just a thought.
edit post viewing:
I also want to say this edit is absolutely unreal. Honestly, in my opinion the best ep7 edit. One other question can anything be done about the music during the falcon tie chase on jakku? Ep5 asteroid chase theme is all I can think about watching that scene.
thanks for making this excellent edit.
That’s an interesting idea, taking out the ‘raised from birth’, but you would have to remove both Hux’s line on the Finalizer and Finn’s admission to Rey in Maz’s castle.
This whole tracking ships thing is kinda ambiguous since day one of star wars. Doesn’t Leia suggest in ep4 after escaping the death star that they are being tracked, that is why they escaped so easily? Doesn’t boba fett track the falcon to cloud city after drifting off with the garbage? Also, doesn’t obi wan track jango in ep2 from kamino to geonosis? I can’t remember all the details off the top of my head but in all instances I think lightspeed was used. So whats the deal?
None of these examples are ambiguous.
In Ep 4, Tarkin says ‘You’re sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship?’, clearly indicating that it was a device which they installed.
In Ep 5, Boba Fett was able to track the Falcon using line of sight and sensors since the Falcon couldn’t enter Hyperspace.
In Ep 2, Obi-wan throws a homing beacon onto Jango’s ship.
In all of these examples, it’s clear that for hyperspace tracking a physical device is necessary.
Why couldn’t the first order just shoot a tracking device at the resistance ships similar to the one obi wan throws at jango’s ship? The first order fighters are able to pass through the shields of the resistance ships.
That would have made much more sense, actually.
This whole tracking ships thing is kinda ambiguous since day one of star wars. Doesn’t Leia suggest in ep4 after escaping the death star that they are being tracked, that is why they escaped so easily? Doesn’t boba fett track the falcon to cloud city after drifting off with the garbage? Also, doesn’t obi wan track jango in ep2 from kamino to geonosis? I can’t remember all the details off the top of my head but in all instances I think lightspeed was used. So whats the deal?
None of these examples are ambiguous.
In Ep 4, Tarkin says ‘You’re sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship?’, clearly indicating that it was a device which they installed.
In Ep 5, Boba Fett was able to track the Falcon using line of sight and sensors since the Falcon couldn’t enter Hyperspace.
In Ep 2, Obi-wan throws a homing beacon onto Jango’s ship.
In all of these examples, it’s clear that for hyperspace tracking a physical device is necessary.
Movies have taught us that people freeze instantly in space, even though there’s no air with which to dissipate the body’s heat. In reality, the body would radiate its heat slowly and you’d be dead long before you froze solid.
Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.
Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.
I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.
The suspense is killing me.
Lots of great ideas here, and I’m definitely bookmarking those Phasma lines for later use 😉
It makes a lot of sense to switch Kylo’s line to the Jakku village, it will have to be attempted.
Thanks!
What do you guys think about the star wars fandom in general right now.
I love the members of this website but if you go elsewhere specifically YouTube its just a complete dumpster fire.
Its either clickbait from Mike Zeroh, #StarWarsDead, or “Disney/Kathleen Kennedy should be burned alive” videos. Besides the Vader fan film to me its all pretty embarrassing…
Youtube has always been a Wretched Hive, moreso after The Last Jedi.
I have no hard data to back it up, but I fear that a lot of the toxicity around Star Wars right now is coming from my generation, the ones that grew up watching the OT on VHS and seeing the Prequels in theaters, people who are now in their thirties or forties. Because I can’t imagine people like my parents, children of the 60’s and 70’s, caring too much about what the Mouse House is doing with the franchise after the mess that GL had made, nor having the time to whine about it in YouTube comment sections. And it’s funny, because I had come to assume that the folks here at the OT forums were the nitpicky cantankerous grumps, whereas many who grew up enjoying the prequels would love the franchise no matter what.
But there are still places unaffected by the toxicity:
That’s one I visit whenever I feel like the criticism and toxicity becomes too much.
I realize now that there are certain ways in which I interpret the (soon to be) three trilogies which allow me to appreciate them. The Original Trilogy requires the least interpretation, mostly just stripping it of the later EU baggage so that the films can stand on their own as the works of art they are. The prequels I can appreciate on the level of theme and concept, stemming from the pulp anthropologist mind of George Lucas. The themes of corruption and allusions to the Roman Republic, wrapped in a stilted classic Hollywood style make these truly unique and valuable films.
Finally, I find I can really appreciate the ST for its high production values and the genuine love for Star Wars on display, centered around some genuinely excellent and magnetic characters. The weaknesses of the ST being an overreliance on coincidence and fan service make it feel like the most extravagant fan project of all time, which I think is why it’s so easy to fanedit - the trilogy itself is an evolving collaboration between fans of the series with naturally differing viewpoints, so what’s one more viewpoint in the mix?
Sounds like fun!
Maybe you could use TFA Restructured as an example of a collaborative edit - I personally had a blast working on it with Hal and Ridley and the many others who contributed. The Leia deleted scene and the Star Destroyer over Maz’s castle were both areas that simply couldn’t have been done (or done well) without everyone working together.
And of course if you’d like to use any TFA:Starlight materials feel free.
