NeverarGreat

RogueLeader said:

I don’t know exactly how they will portray Ben’s redemption, but I definitely see it happening, and I think Rey will play a part of it. It was romantic love in the prequels that tore the galaxy apart. And I think it will be romantic love that puts the galaxy back together.

Maybe if they released it today, but for late December my money’s on The True Meaning of Christmas.

DuracellEnergizer said:

ray_afraid said:

I just can’t imagine Han wearing that silly shirt.

You must imagine what you have unimagined.

Thanks, Inspirobot

Definitely.

That is definitely something to look into. It would be an interesting contrast to the red of the weapon plasma at any rate, and to further distinguish the star as something different from our own.

You might also be able to change some dialogue to make Anakin a more active participant in the betrayal of the remaining Jedi. Cut all of Sidious’s mentions of Mustafar, with him saying only that the remaining Jedi will be dealt with. After Anakin returns from the Temple to Padme, he tells her that the remaining Jedi have gathered on Mustafar, and he’s going there to end the war.

I actually think the point of no return for the story was Anakin killing the Tusken Raiders, women and children included. That was when I checked out anyway.

RogueLeader said:

I think he meant that instead of showing flashes of the First Order and Starkiller Base, Kylo Ren shows flashes of himself being intimidating. I’m guessing stuff like him killing Lor San Tekka, showing off his saber/force abilities, etc.

That makes sense, though I quickly abandoned the idea of re-using already-seen footage such as Tekka’s death so it would need some altered or deleted footage of Kylo.

Huh, that is a new idea! So even though Finn and Han don’t rescue Rey directly, they still help by buying her more time.

I had thought about cutting Rey’s escape to where she says the mind trick the final time, the trooper just stands there for a beat, and then it cuts to Kylo Ren walking in and she is gone. So we know she did it but don’t actually see her do it (so the first time we really see her “use the Force” is with the lightsaber pull.

I believe I tried that at one point and found it wasn’t as successful in practice, but maybe I’m misremembering.

But, if you base it off the theatrical version, it really doesn’t matter too much the time between Rey escaping and Kylo discovering it, because we see Rey do the mind trick successfully before Kylo comes in, so we know she’ll be gone. So just extending it like in your version doesn’t really change that.

There were a few things I was initially iffy about, I thing it still works logically. Like Han and Finn still being detected even though they stayed low so they wouldn’t, but you could argue they just saw a weird “blip”, and if they had gone higher they definitely would’ve known it was a ship.

Yeah, I figured that there would have been a blip when they first exited hyperspace and were definitely higher than any trees. It makes the FO security more robust in this instance.

Then you wonder, why did they send Kylo to check it out and not some scouts? But honestly I don’t think this is a big deal. I mean, he is not really in a hurry to get back, as far as he knows Rey’s know going anywhere.

I bet there is a line of dialogue from the Lego game or something I could use such as ‘Show me’ that he could say in response to the trooper. From what we’ve seen, Kylo really likes to arrive soon after his troops to any engagement, so this would be no different.

Also, Kylo not sending Han until he is closer makes a lot of sense too.

And you’re also suggesting to generate some Stormtrooper comm chatter of some Base disturbances, which is what encourages Rey to try the mind trick again, right? I think that would connect the scenes together as well. The cut back to her becomes more motivated.

I guess the only question would be if it all would work pacing-wise, but I think we’ll just have to see a rough cut to really get a feel for it. One thing that might seem weird back to back is Kylo discovering Rey’s escaped, then immediately being informed she hasn’t been found in the hangar. But I think it could work. I would really like to see this concept.

This is kind of unrelated, but I had an aesthetic thought regarding Starkiller. I was wondering how effective it would be if in the space establishing shots of Starkiller Base, that nebulae were added into the space around it. Basically the idea being that it would make the area of space Starkiller Base is in feel more exotic. Since we have never really seen nebulae in the Star Wars movies before, it could be used to establish a sort of visual aesthetic for uncharted space, and the Unknown Regions more specifically. If it gave the feeling that Starkiller was almost shrouded in these space clouds, it would help give the feeling of Starkiller being “hidden” from the Republic, maybe.

You could also do this with Ach-To as well, since it is also apparently in the Unknown Regions.

That’s a really neat idea. Coupled with the concept that it orbits a White Dwarf with a planetary nebula, it would go a long way towards making it aesthetically different and making the relative size of the planet to the star a bit less absurd.

JEDIT: Concerning White Dwarfs - they can be as small as the Earth while being as dense as the Earth’s sun. Since they are the remnants of a star, there has been more than enough time for planets to have formed, and for those planets to have cooled. I imagine that Starkiller could have been a dead planet hollowed out for its metal. Furthermore, in a White Dwarf nuclear fusion has ceased and the body of the star consists primarily of inert carbon and oxygen which is still extremely hot and luminous. It is surrounded by an atmosphere of helium about 1/100 the mass of the star which is the only thing preventing the core from rapid cooling and darkening.

The upshot of all of this is that the Starkiller could very well function in a logical way by siphoning off the helium surrounding the White Dwarf. When all of the helium is absorbed by the Starkiller, the Dwarf rapidly cools and darkens. I assume this would still take thousands of years but artistic license, whatever. But this means that the mass of the star remains for the base to orbit, it merely ceases to be a bright point of light in the sky. Finally, the mass absorbed by the Starkiller may easily be contained within the planet as seen in the planet’s eventual destruction.

I realize that’s about 10 times more thought than JJ and co put into it, but it’s fun to think it through. Goodnight!

I’m not sure of the suggestion in the Kylo vision - are you suggesting that I try and highlight the difference between the two characters’ ideologies?

For the drawings, I think it would be easier and more effective to simply have the island with no figures. After all, Luke has closed himself off from the Force in a way where Rey admits later that she can’t sense him, so I’ve come around to the idea that she really should only see the island and the texts.

In other news, I’ve had an idea about restructuring the Starkiller infiltration. It’s lengthy, but it involves much of the movie:

Resistance base until Leia says ‘tell me all you know’.
Rey and Kylo interrogation, Snoke demands Rey.
Leia realizes her part of the map is useless.
Chewie and the doctor.
Han and Leia talk.
Starkiller charging (with shot establishing Kylo watching)
Resistance planning session and Han and Leia’s goodbyes.
Rey struggles with escape, fails. Kylo approaches.
Falcon Lands.
Trooper informs Kylo that sensors were triggered in sector 718, Kylo goes to investigate.
Not how the Force works.
Hux update.
Kylo searches the Falcon (Apparently in sector 718).
Base Infiltration, Phasma captured.
Rey hears Stormtrooper chatter of base disturbances, finally escapes.
Han and Finn threaten Phasma.
Rey goes onto the wall.
Phasma triggers alarm.
Rey goes into hiding.
Fighters sent in.
Kylo sees fighters from the Falcon.
Fighters make first pass.
Kylo returns to Rey’s cell.
Kylo informed that Rey not found in the hangar, says that Rey is dangerous, Senses Han.
Han and Finn plan prison break, find Rey.

This version does a lot of things that previous version have attempted, such as establishing Finn’s rescue attempt before Rey escapes, allowing space for Kylo to brood, Phasma being useful, etc. However, this version would go further in that Finn’s rescue attempt is what delays Kylo long enough for Rey to discover her power and escape. In essence, both characters are instrumental in the escape. Even better, Kylo is now in very close proximity to Han when he senses him, making this ability more realistic and heightening the tension going into the Oscillator.

Here’s an updated scene, with the return of the unused music and a still of the wall of days and the last shot of Rey as a stand-in for the island drawing. I like the idea you had RL about using the wall for the drawing, but it would still be fun to film an insert shot of that.

https://vimeo.com/316877939

Password: fanedit

22Popcorn86 said:

I sent you a PM in regards to my force awakens redux cut? BTW, you mentioned you found a link for my force awakens redux cut on a different site what site did you find it on?

The FSM Board.

I just left a review in your thread.

Anakin Starkiller said:

Can something be done to totally overhaul Han’s death? In the movie, he just walks into it when it’s bloody obvious he’s gonna die, and Kylo has no reason to kill him beyond being the villain and Han being a mentor figure.

I disagree with the last part completely. Kylo has every reason to kill him, from needing to earn Snoke’s trust, to ‘completing his training’, and even his hatred of living in the shadow of a man whom he knows to be far more flawed than the rest of the galaxy believes.

But there is something wrong with the scene as you said, in that we know Han is going to die. I think it would have made for a much stronger scene if Kylo was so genuinely torn apart that he couldn’t kill Han when the moment came, but for some other event or agent to cause Han’s death in that scene.

Imagine if we knew in advance that Ben was more light side than dark, but kept up the charade to kill Snoke and unite the Republic and First Order in peace. Snoke would suspect that his student was false, and would demand proof of his devotion - the killing of someone he loved. Ben would be forced to choose between his vision of a unified galaxy and his own father, and in the moment he chooses his father. But at that moment the Starkiller fires and destroys the Republic capitol, killing many people whom he knew and secretly admired. The disturbance is so great that he ignites the saber without realizing it, killing his father and assuring him the trust of the Supreme Leader.

That would be the movie I’d like to see.

22Popcorn86 said:

Has anyone watched this REDUX CUT of Force Awakens yet?

I have watched it, and wanted to let it settle a bit before giving my thoughts, so here they are:

• The Crawl

Nice summation of the state of the galaxy, it does a better job than TFA in setting the stage. It is a bit wordy however, and the absence of any mention of Luke is strange considering that he is the Macguffin of the movie.

• The Starkiller

This scene works exceptionally well, far better than I would have guessed. I would quibble with including Kylo in the proceedings since at this point I would expect him to still be with Luke.

• Rey

It’s nice to see this scene relatively intact. The transition from the Starkiller devastation to Rey is powerful, and though the 3 year subtitle is necessary it feels un-Star Warsy to me.

• Lor San Tekka

This scene feels so much like an opening scene that I don’t think it works that well anywhere else. It also seems to come out of nowhere after Rey’s introduction. I’ve tried a similar cut in my version, with similar results unfortunately.

• Resistance Deleted Scene

It’s nice to see this back in the movie, but it destroys Leia’s wonderful reveal later on.

• Rey finds BB-8

A bit of an odd transition into the scene, but otherwise good.

• Poe’s Escape

Some cuts to Finn’s dialogue are unfortunately noticeable. I appreciate the direction of making Finn a less goofy everyman, but in so doing the movie loses a bit of character.

• The Falcon Flies Again

The restructuring of the first 30 minutes is quite similar to one I’m using in my version, and think it works well. As far as the musical additions throughout the movie, they often feel unnecessary except in certain scenes such as the first Starkiller Scene and in the Rey/Unkar Plutt scene here. For a moment the movie feels like something out of the Hollywood Golden Age, and I absolutely love it.

• The Rathtars

Cutting all of the Rathtar action is a bit extreme. A lighter touch would have kept some character in the scene while reducing the silly CGI monsters.

• Snoke and Kylo

The decision to keep Kylo’s identity a secret has a serious cost - he’s now little more than a basic villain until the end of the movie. What makes this so strange is that this scene heavily implies that he is the son of Han Solo, so the attempt at mystery will probably fail with most.

• Maz’s Castle

Another excellent musical choice in the 2001 soundtrack, though I think this track would make anything vastly more sinister. The Vader cameo is not needed.

• The Castle Attack

It’s interesting to see another take on this scene without the Hosnian destruction. It works better than I thought to simply cut out the sky-gazing. Saving Poe’s reveal is also interesting, but could go either way.

• Rey’s Escape

Using a telekinesis to escape doesn’t strike me as so different from a mind trick to warrant a change.

• Phasma Sounds the Alarm

I find it fascinating that two faneditors came to apply this same edit. It’s destiny.

• The Dogfight

I just wanted to note the classic X-wing display. It’s fun.

• The Forest Battle

The Vader cameo, again, is not necessary, and takes the focus away from Rey.

• The Ending

That’s…different. I won’t spoil it for anyone who wants to see for themselves, but it definitely changes the entire tone of the movie and makes it feel more like an old-timey serial.

• In Summary

There are a ton of great ideas in this edit, and a few inspired musical choices. Most of the restructuring is in the right direction, and it definitely transforms the movie into something worthy of the watch. Even if it’s a bit unpolished, I enjoyed it 😃

I agree that it should be subtle, more than the daydream even as you said, which is why I thought the drawings would be a nice addition. It would also solve the issue of having the Plutt lines without any visual context, and give some concrete examples of her backstory. The goal would be for the island to be merely a mental escape for Rey in this scene, so if the Force whispers happen, they would need to be quite subtle so as not to make it too mysterious or magical.

As for generating a new shot, I think without any dynamic moving camera the shots will feel too static for an Abrams scene, so the drawings were a way to fix that. I don’t think it would actually be all that much more work than the drawings on the static metal since the images would have to be generated anyway, and the type of shot I’m imagining is something I’ve filmed before. A darkened corner with some bits and bobs and the drawings would be quite doable.

Concept: Go from BB-8 to interior, with Plutt and alien voices tormenting Rey, then pan over open book/scraps of parchment depicting her notes and pictures. Some contain crude depictions of Plutt and various nasty altercations with scribbled angry writing, but on a separate page is an image of an island, made with a great deal of care. The sounds shift to that of the ocean.

Actually, the paper could be bits of old Imperial propaganda posters or something that she found in the wrecks.

The music is an unused cue originally intended for Hux’s Starkiller speech. I’m planning to use it in the scene where Phasma triggers the alarm, and along with where it is briefly used in the new Maz Castle sequence, it will essentially be the theme for the First Order.

JEDIT: I will try to make the dream scene work without music, but those are good choices if that plan would fail.

RogueLeader said:

Gotta agree with Dom. I think after TFA, a lot of us felt that Kylo, after killing Han, would be transformed into a fully-realized villain. But TLJ just hammered down the fact that killing Han did not have the effect he was hoping for. Kylo is broken, just like his new mask illustrates. I personally think the Kintsugi-vibe with the red lacquer looks badass. Kylo is exactly where he thought he wanted to be this whole time, but he is not happy. He’s just doubling down on his mistakes like a sunken cost fallacy.

I just think that if they really wanted to bring home the idea that TLJ picked up directly where TFA left off, they could have had Kylo meet Snoke without the mask, simply because it had been lost, and then he would have the opportunity in Ep 9 to make that more badass mask for himself and double down on his mistakes some more. It felt like a natural way to keep the mask off for a movie while still keeping his need for it.

With Finn, his character arc has gone like this:
TFA: Wants to save himself —> wants to save Rey
TLJ: Wants to save Rey —> wants to save the Resistance
IX?: Wants to save the Resistance —> wants to save the Resistance AND the soldiers of the First Order (save the good guys and the “bad guys”)

I feel like that’s a bit overly literal and a bit cynical of his character, since he clearly wants to save Rey from the moment he meets her. I hope that 9 goes the route you suggest, but everyone was hoping for this in 8 and instead we got the ‘Needs to learn to help the good guys’ thing which many people felt was unnecessary or a given.

Regarding Rey, in TFA, she was under the delusion that her parents would come back for her. In TLJ, she understood that they weren’t coming back, but she now was wondering why they weren’t coming back? Why did they abandon her? Did something happen to them? That, to me, is why she wanted to see her parents, and why it hurt so much to accept they didn’t actually care about her. Like Dom said, I think she had this fixed idea of who she was supposed to be in TFA, but she realized that wasn’t who she was meant to be. In TLJ, she is lost and trying to figure that out, and asking questions about her identity, like what is it that is awakening in her, and why her parents left her, are apart of that self-actualization.

I feel like people take Hux’s abuse so personally! It is really interesting. I felt that Hux actually had an iverse arc to that of Poe. Poe gets slapped, thrown across a room, and shot. Hux gets smacked to the floor, choked, and thrown against a wall. Hux is young and a little overconfident in his abilities, but by the end of TLJ you can see that he might be aware of his mistakes, like Poe, when he tries to stop Kylo Ren from taking Luke’s bait, and that might translate to him growing into a more competent enemy in IX. I mean, just look at the face he gives Kylo Ren at the end. I can’t really say too much about him, but if in IX Hux is eager to betray Kylo, then TLJ really helped set that resentment up.

Haha, Snoke being “half the character he used to be”! That is true literally, but to me Snoke was who he always was meant to be. Him being a red herring, a stepping stone for Kylo’s growth, is the best way they could have used him. The son of Han Solo and Princess Leia being the new Emperor of the Galaxy is such a great set up, and also being the head of a war against his own mother.

I honestly think some, not all of course, but some of people’s disappointments honestly come from expectation, as much as we don’t want to admit it. 10 years from now, when kids watch these movies back to back an don’t have to speculate for a year and a half who Snoke is, or what Luke is doing on that island, they won’t digest these films the same way a lot of people are now. I think it is the same reason why people seem to be coming around to the prequels now, in my opinion.

Just because we think a character’s arc is supposed to go a certain way doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be open minded about the direction they are deciding to take these characters, don’t you think? We can try to understand them and what the filmmakers are trying to say.

I mean, I hate that some people don’t enjoy these films. Not saying people are wrong for their own opinions. Just sharing my own because I want people to enjoy them like I do! That’s all.

I go back and forth with TLJ. Some days I really appreciate it, others the flaws and missed opportunities are all I can see. Yesterday was the latter, clearly. I think the thing that most bothered me is feeling that Rian believed in the characters less than I did, which is why so many have to spend time in remedial character-building exercises.

DominicCobb said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

TFA has tropes played straight, with objects intact. TLJ deconstructed tropes and the objects representing them (the saber and the helmet. Now IX is reconstructing the tropes and objects. Interesting visual metaphors.

On the subject of Kylo’s mask, TLJ only made explicit a point TFA was already making.

That sort of spelling-out kind of strips the subtlety and even dignity from the characters, don’t you think?

If the mask had been destroyed in TFA like the film implies, it would have meant that Kylo has developed as a character between movies to the point where he is comfortable owning his role in the galaxy. Instead the character is devolved and the mask briefly and awkwardly brought back so that we can laugh at its absurdity.

It’s the same for the rest of the characters, honestly.

Finn’s character is regressed almost back to Maz’s castle, where he has no interest in helping the Resistance and cares only for Rey. A reading of TFA where he’s not at least a little willing to help the Resistance would be really uncharitable. Do I even have to mention Rey, who got over her absent parents in TFA only to have that return as her defining character flaw? Or Hux, the human punching bag? Or Snoke, who is now half the character he used to be? The only character who feels like he isn’t regressed is Poe, who was so lightly sketched in TFA that any character change is positive.

I think that this is why, despite all the great aspects of TLJ, it feels so wrong to so many - it feels like the filmmakers had a dimmer view of the characters and tropes than the audience.

Yes, I definitely like that idea! It wasn’t in the last experiment because of the music accompaniment, but it shouldn’t be too hard to get a good isolated track.

Very good suggestions RL, thank you! As you say, the scene doesn’t really work yet, and maybe it’s better to only have the Kylo imagery and leave the Rey dream as simply sounds and voices overlaid on top of the shots from around Rey’s house. Maybe go back to the original concept of no music, and letting the sound effects tell the whole story. The imagery is provided later with Kylo’s description anyway.

As for the imagery in the interrogation, it might be interesting to try the distortion effect seen in the Anakin visions, since that’s canon for Star Wars. I tend to veer away from flashes and short cuts of action since it often feels distracting to me, but maybe it could work here.

EddieDean said:

That feels very complete in terms of the goal of Starkiller not being a weapon. But with that goal in mind, I still feel like we need to feel the threat of the First Order (ideally, IMO, juxtaposed with Kylo killing Han), and see some largescale destruction they cause such as the earlier idea to have a dreadnought assault, which would necessitate VFX.

I figure that these changes would fit in the context of Restructured, meaning that the Starkiller is a weapon and does destroy the Republic at the climax of the film.

This is still an ambitious set of changes, but much more feasible and I think it would benefit the movie greatly. Particularly interesting in this change is the added tension of two goals, and the disastrous effects of prioritizing the search for Luke. In this new narrative the Resistance has essentially sacrificed the Republic capitol to find Luke and turn Kylo.

There are a lot of cuts to the final scene however, especially to Chewie and Leia mourning which are important after Han’s and the Republic’s death. What if Han and Finn got the map from Phasma but it was lost sometime after? If Han was carrying the plans, they would have fallen with him, but it might read as stupid that he would carry them out onto that bridge. Or Finn could have the map like you suggest, and there would be an insert shot of the plans falling out of his pocket when he is beaten by Kylo, sliced in half and half-buried in the snow. When we get back to the Resistance base and see Chewie and Leia in mourning, there could be a closeup of the map which is sliced in half and burned to uselessness. It would make Finn’s injury a dual defeat and require Rey to step up and find Luke on her own. Have a closeup of the sliced map next to Leia, then 3-PO could tell Leia that ‘Rey may have some much needed good news’. Cut to Rey watching over Finn as she has made up her mind.

The idea of redubbing Phasma is nice, but isn’t the bigger issue the fact that the FO captain continues to be dispatched with relative ease? The new character might even exacerbate the issue, since it shows that Phasma probably didn’t escape Starkiller, further diminishing her power.

Yeah. I’ll probably get rid of that line anyway, since it doesn’t connect with the image of Luke anymore.

Oh yeah, it would have been a breeze actually, after tracking the still image to the moving shot that is.

Interesting note, I was watching TFA promotional material, and in an FXguide TV episode on TFA about 22 minutes in they had a breakdown of assembling the Starkiller shot, and the added smoke was of course the last element to be included:

Would have been good to know back when I was working on that. 😉

Thanks, the dreamy effects will be added at some point along with the animated BB-8 and so forth.

Here is a version without the Hux and Kylo bit, to make it feel less jarring to have two vision scenes so close together - now they hopefully feel connected in a more thematic way.

https://vimeo.com/315971642

Password: fanedit

It might be better to have the final shot of the interrogation with BB-8 and cut to black, having just voices such as Unkar and Teedo and Rey arguing, then fade them out and fade in on the island.

Maybe I could use some of the closups from Luke’s hut to make it more relevant that Rey says ‘Luke’ at the end.